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Is protein truly more satiating?
magnusthenerd
Posts: 1,207 Member
in Debate Club
Just read this from Menno Henselmans:
https://mennohenselmans.com/protein-is-not-more-satiating-than-carbs-and-fats
It seems and interesting nuance to the protein satiety claim: protein is more satiating when the diet is already low in it, but it loses the effect for high protein diets that meet and exceed protein needs.
https://mennohenselmans.com/protein-is-not-more-satiating-than-carbs-and-fats
It seems and interesting nuance to the protein satiety claim: protein is more satiating when the diet is already low in it, but it loses the effect for high protein diets that meet and exceed protein needs.
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Replies
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Well... most research shows that on a per calorie unit basis... yes...6
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psychod787 wrote: »Well... most research shows that on a per calorie unit basis... yes...
Does it though? The article says the research is mixed and posits that it only shows as high when intake is already low.1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Well... most research shows that on a per calorie unit basis... yes...
Does it though? The article says the research is mixed and posits that it only shows as high when intake is already low.
What's your definition of low? USDA? Whole foods vegan? Ect...0 -
psychod787 wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Well... most research shows that on a per calorie unit basis... yes...
Does it though? The article says the research is mixed and posits that it only shows as high when intake is already low.
What's your definition of low? USDA? Whole foods vegan? Ect...
Below 15-20% of dietary intake is the range the article uses.3 -
I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).
As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.14 -
I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).
As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.
Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...3 -
I think that there's complexity to this topic that can't be reduced to a Yes/No answer. Everyone's body is different. Everyone's nutritional needs, environmental factors, and genetic history are different. Just as an example, my husband finds protein to be the most important macro. He's tall, male, and works a physical job. It's also what satiates him. Meanwhile I am average height, female, and work a sedentary job. I don't NEED a lot of protein and I don't want a lot. I find that balance is the most satiating for me whereas he would find my diet severely lacking in tasty foods.
I do find that if I'm hungry and feeling faint, a boiled egg or slice of cheese take the edge off way better than a bag of chips. But so do cucumbers and strawberries, which are high in fiber and water and low in protein. So protein helps, and it's an important consideration and crucial macro. So does fiber. But I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer here.5 -
psychod787 wrote: »I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).
As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.
Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...
I'm aware of those studies, but I'm just saying I think there's more to it. For example, potato scoring high on satiety studies.
I wasn't talking about personal preference (although I also think people differ on what is sating to them), but it being more complicated.1 -
psychod787 wrote: »I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).
As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.
Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...
I'm aware of those studies, but I'm just saying I think there's more to it. For example, potato scoring high on satiety studies.
I wasn't talking about personal preference (although I also think people differ on what is sating to them), but it being more complicated.
I think... personally, it's the energy density and palatablility that helps the lowly boiled potato be so satisfying. I will tell you as an n=1 here.... a PLAIN boiled potato will sit in my stomach like a box of rocks! Lol0 -
All protein is not created equal, imo. I will certainly find 30 grams of chicken protein far more satiating than 30 grams of whey powder protein, for instance.The same with calories, I find 150 calories of eggs more satiating than 150 calories of almonds. Studies don't mean anything, figure out what works for you, for your body, and forget anything else.6
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psychod787 wrote: »I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).
As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.
Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...
I'm not sure it does go against most research.
He links an analysis of 38 studies for the idea that the satiety effect doesn't exist past the 15-20% range.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/101/6/1320S/4564492
If protein is more satiating in the low range, it doesn't go against most research to say it isn't the most satiating outside of that range.1 -
Even in a context where I believe satiation is very, very individual, I'd expect there'd be some central tendencies in any sensible studies across decent-sized populations, whether the point being examined was one macro vs. others, or specific food choices. Those two things (individuality and common tendencies) are really not in tension with one another. We're all unique . . . but not to the point of flat-lining normal curves.
I appreciate what the article is saying.
But I don't think there's any obvious major guidance toward one's n = 1 answer, without running n =1 experiments. The studies may give us some higher-probability starting points for experiments, and that's about it, IMO.2 -
Satiety is in constant fluctuation, so this makes sense. Not only are we unique, but this uniqueness is compounded within time. What satiates you today may not be what satiates you tomorrow or a decade from now.
Much like "intuitive eating" there's a fundamental flaw in the logic as if there is a constant and if we could just figure this out then everyone would be healthy.3 -
There’s nothing more satiating than leafy greens to me, because I dislike every mouthful even tho I eat them daily.1
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nonscientifically: it's not just protein. i need fat too.
i do think ymmv. i think i find fat the most satiating. cheese/dairy0 -
I find fat the most satiating, too, protein definitely not as much. I find carbs very satiating but only for a very short time.0
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Thank you for this interesting discussion point. I have tried different approaches for all meals of the day. I have always been a "small breakfast" eater, usually start eating some food towards lunch time. I have tried a spoon of wheat bran dissolved in hot water once in a while and that gives me a full feeling (satiated?) for hours and hours - don't even want to think about food until dinner time. Certainly not a healthy meal plan, just a (unhealthy?) observation...0
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Thanks for the great article in the OP!
"A review of 38 studies concluded protein is more satiating than carbs and fats in the 10-20% of energy intake range but not above that, indicating the average satiety sweet spot is a protein intake of 20% of energy intake, corresponding to about 1.2 g/kg/d for non-strength training individuals. The effect was far stronger for self-reported satiety than actual eating behavior: ad libitum energy intake didn’t reliably decrease even at lower protein intakes. The optimum protein intake for satiety was closely in line with the optimal protein intake for body recomposition and health (1.2 – 1.6 g/kg/d)."
Haha, that pretty much sums my protein percentage up!
I've been logging everything in MFP over 4 years, (lost 35 kg and have maintained 3 years) and never really pay any attention to trying to hit macros, and they have consistently been an average of 20% protein, 30% fat, 50% carbs the whole time.
I love how I was about to say through most of it, but what about fibre? Yep, at the end, he says how fruit and veg are good at filling you up.
You can use them to bulk up your plate and stomach with volume for very few calories.
And I find now that a 300 kilojoule piece of fruit is satiating and lets me stop eating whereas an 800 kilojoule biscuit/cookie makes me want another.
Sometimes, of course, I'm happy to use my calorie limit on a couple of biscuits. That's a form of satiation too.
Other days, too, I'll have a 400 kilojoule choc protein bar if I can sort of feel I need it.
I learned a good word last week:
"Interoception"
https://theconversation.com/understanding-body-signals-could-be-a-key-factor-in-eating-disorders-111559
"Research has begun to explore how our [lack of] awareness and perception of our body signals (known as interoception) contribute to disordered eating. Interoception includes perceiving various internal sensations from the body. It means noticing things like how quickly your heart is beating, how heavily you are breathing, how hot or cold you are, and whether you are feeling hungry or full."
It's risky just following the "intuitive eating" idea - but not if you're also using a logical knowledge of the caloric content of food you can choose to eat.
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I remember used to be on a strict low carb diet years ago, and I was very dedicated, and really stuck to it. I lost 30 pounds pretty darn quick. My go to every morning was this restaurant that was close to the company I worked for. We would walk next door every AM and get a loaded omelet (the works!). It has eggs, cheese, bacon, sausage, onion, bell peppers, spinach, touch of salsa. It was huge! It was yummy! It was so filling! I could go for hours way past lunch into the early afternoon before I started getting hungry. Nothing else really does it for me in the AM. This was a nice reminder to try that again.
So, for me, definitely, I am definitely more satisfied and feelll fuller longer with protein. If I eat carby/sugary stuff, I want more. Give me a bagel and cream chees toasted, and oh, I want another. Give me a loaded omelet (less calories I'm pretty sure), and I'm good to go.1 -
Avocados and Eggs are super satiating for me over a long period of time. Calorie for calorie, you have to choose leafy greens. However duration of satiation is also a factor, and good fats seem to win this battle. Add eggs, avocado and MCT oil to a spinach salad and holy satiation combo. Protein and the length of time it satiates me really depends on the amount processing and the amount of quality fat in the meat. JMHO.1
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