Would you recommend keto

pierinifitness wrote: »

Stumbled across Nina Teicholz's Twitter account, one thing led to another and stumbled across this which may be of interest to some visiting this topic discussion:

https://ninateicholz.com/ketogenic-diet-myths-vs-facts/#more-4946

Nia Teicholz is an investigative science journalist, Professor (Adjunct), NY University, Executive Director, The Nutrition Coalition, and Author, New York Times bestseller, The Big Fat Surprise.

Caveat: I'm not peddling Keto and judge I'd struggle with it but I constantly read to learn more. Have one MFP friend (of my two) who does Keto and I always shake my head in disbelief when viewing his food diary.

To address the performance issue:

Reading through the quoted studies that she is using, even for the first myth, would cause me some pause. Most of the studies are preliminary studies with very small groups (8-12 people) and often short in duration. And in both cases, the comparison was a ketogenic diet vs a western diet. And we all know a western diet is terrible and not something elite athletes would follow. The one study that followed 15 individuals for 6 months to ensure fat adaptation, did show that there wasn't adverse effects for performance, but the control group improved performance. So making an assessment based on a couple of studies that have very small control groups is a bit short sighted.

Unfortunately, since Keto is "trendy", the people representing it are journalist, MD, chiropractors and personal/celebrity trainers. Most of which have very little to no education or training in the field. I do happen to love the work I see from Volek and Phinney, although, it's not extremely applicable to me since it's largely endurance cardio, which tends to not be explosive and is in the fat burning zone. All the sports I play require explosive power.

ETA: Having said that, a person should monitor their performance to see how they are effected. Required adjustments may be needed. Ultimately, a person may also have to figure out what their main goals are and have them prioritize. For me, vanity is superseding my lifting gains. Once I get down to sub 10%, then I will bulk with higher carbs.

pierinifitness wrote: »

Stumbled across Nina Teicholz's Twitter account, one thing led to another and stumbled across this which may be of interest to some visiting this topic discussion:

https://ninateicholz.com/ketogenic-diet-myths-vs-facts/#more-4946

Nia Teicholz is an investigative science journalist, Professor (Adjunct), NY University, Executive Director, The Nutrition Coalition, and Author, New York Times bestseller, The Big Fat Surprise.

Caveat: I'm not peddling Keto and judge I'd struggle with it but I constantly read to learn more. Have one MFP friend (of my two) who does Keto and I always shake my head in disbelief when viewing his food diary.

Curious what about his diary that you are judging? I follow a Keto diet and think that my diet is pretty healthy, albeit lower on veggies and fruits than some ketoers, it all depends on the day.

One thing I never see mentioned with keto is the fact that several studies have found a potential link between a high intake of saturated animal fat and colon cancer, which is the third most common cause of cancer deaths in the US. I say potential link because the causation has not been definitively proven, as it has been with cured meats and alcohol (both of which have been proven to elevate colon cancer risk). I am BY NO MEANS saying that keto raises your risk of colon cancer. But if you have any family history of colon cancer, I would think twice about keto.

WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »

whmscll wrote: »

One thing I never see mentioned with keto is the fact that several studies have found a potential link between a high intake of saturated animal fat and colon cancer, which is the third most common cause of cancer deaths in the US. I say potential link because the causation has not been definitively proven, as it has been with cured meats and alcohol (both of which have been proven to elevate colon cancer risk). I am BY NO MEANS saying that keto raises your risk of colon cancer. But if you have any family history of colon cancer, I would think twice about keto.

Can you please post links to these studies? I have a family hx of Colon Cancer and my GI doctor is very supportive of me following a Ketogenic Diet and I've never heard of this alleged connection. I don't drink and don't eat a lot in the way of cured meats other than some bacon occasionally, so I'd love to read some actual scientific studies about this. I worry that this is just Keto-fearmongering by a community that just doesn't know much about it. FTR my grandfather who died from colon cancer, was not a drinker and to my knowledge was not following a Keto diet.

I think it's red meat rather than sat fat, and with everything in nutrition it is hard to separate out causes, but personally I think it's enough to limit red meat. Here's a discussion (along with other topics) with links to studies; http://theoncologist.alphamedpress.org/content/5/5/393.full

I also limit sat fat, but will note that one can do keto without eating a lot of red meat and without a crazy high amount of sat fat.

psuLemon wrote: »

pierinifitness wrote: »

@psuLemon curious as to why you chose to take Keto for a test drive.

From everything I’ve read, you need more time in Keto-land to adapt until which, expectantly, workout performance will lag.

My comment caveat: I have zero personal experience with Keto.

I actually regularly run experiments to see how effective it is for me. It also makes me more informed when I am working with people. Currently, i recognized that moderation wasn't effective for weight loss for me for some vanity pounds. So i figured, I would try keto to see if I needed something very restrictive to help with vanity pounds.

And I have heard once you get fat adapted, performance will improve, but I haven't seen any evidence in the literature about that... probably because there is limited information available as it relates to keto and lifting. A lot of the body builders I know doing keto all comment on the same thing.. significant decreases in performance. This is why I will probably consider doing TKD and time glucose around my lifting program.

My performance in the gym vastly improved when I started incorporating Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrine intra-workout.

psuLemon wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »

whmscll wrote: »

One thing I never see mentioned with keto is the fact that several studies have found a potential link between a high intake of saturated animal fat and colon cancer, which is the third most common cause of cancer deaths in the US. I say potential link because the causation has not been definitively proven, as it has been with cured meats and alcohol (both of which have been proven to elevate colon cancer risk). I am BY NO MEANS saying that keto raises your risk of colon cancer. But if you have any family history of colon cancer, I would think twice about keto.

Can you please post links to these studies? I have a family hx of Colon Cancer and my GI doctor is very supportive of me following a Ketogenic Diet and I've never heard of this alleged connection. I don't drink and don't eat a lot in the way of cured meats other than some bacon occasionally, so I'd love to read some actual scientific studies about this. I worry that this is just Keto-fearmongering by a community that just doesn't know much about it. FTR my grandfather who died from colon cancer, was not a drinker and to my knowledge was not following a Keto diet.

I think it's red meat rather than sat fat, and with everything in nutrition it is hard to separate out causes, but personally I think it's enough to limit red meat. Here's a discussion (along with other topics) with links to studies; http://theoncologist.alphamedpress.org/content/5/5/393.full

I also limit sat fat, but will note that one can do keto without eating a lot of red meat and without a crazy high amount of sat fat.

The 20-30% relative increase in colorectal cancer is processed meats (bacon, sausages, etc...). The is no increase when it relates to red meats like beef.

I wasn't referring to the processed meat thing. I was referring to this, from the link I posted:

"National rates of colon cancer are also strongly associated with per capita consumption of animal fat and meat, with correlation coefficients ranging between 0.8 and 0.9 [32, 35]. Based on these epidemiologic investigations and animal studies, dietary fat increasing has been hypothesized to act by excretion of bile acids, which can be converted to carcinogens or promoters [47]. However, many studies have found that higher levels of physical activity are associated with reduced risk of colon cancer [48]; thus, the high rates in affluent countries previously attributed to fat intake are probably, at least in part, due to sedentary lifestyle.

In a meta-analysis of 13 case-control studies, a significant association between total energy intake and colon cancer was observed, but saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats were not related to colon cancer risk after adjustment for total energy [49]. The relation between diet and colon cancer has been examined in several large prospective studies, which have not confirmed the positive association with total energy intake seen in case-control studies [50-53]. Higher intake of various forms of red meat has been associated with greater risk of colon cancer in most prospective studies [50-53], but not in all [54]. In general, positive associations have been most consistently seen when red meat was specifically examined and when eaten as a main dish. Fairly consistent positive associations have also been observed for processed meats. The apparently stronger association with red meat compared with fat in several recent cohort studies needs further confirmation, but could result if the specific fatty acids or nonfat components of meat (for example the heme iron or carcinogens created by cooking) were the primary etiologic factors. This issue does have major practical implications as some dietary recommendations encourage daily consumption of red meat as long as it is lean [55]."

And the cited studies are at the end of the link.

WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »

whmscll wrote: »

One thing I never see mentioned with keto is the fact that several studies have found a potential link between a high intake of saturated animal fat and colon cancer, which is the third most common cause of cancer deaths in the US. I say potential link because the causation has not been definitively proven, as it has been with cured meats and alcohol (both of which have been proven to elevate colon cancer risk). I am BY NO MEANS saying that keto raises your risk of colon cancer. But if you have any family history of colon cancer, I would think twice about keto.

Can you please post links to these studies? I have a family hx of Colon Cancer and my GI doctor is very supportive of me following a Ketogenic Diet and I've never heard of this alleged connection. I don't drink and don't eat a lot in the way of cured meats other than some bacon occasionally, so I'd love to read some actual scientific studies about this. I worry that this is just Keto-fearmongering by a community that just doesn't know much about it. FTR my grandfather who died from colon cancer, was not a drinker and to my knowledge was not following a Keto diet.

First, I said “potential link” because the science is not definitive. If you do a Google search on “saturated fat and colon cancer,” you will find pages of information discussing this topic, including some scientific studies that cite a correlation between high saturated fat intake and increased colon cancer risk, and other studies that show no correlation. Some agree that while obesity is a clear risk factor, fat intake itself cannot be singled out as a cause. So, as with many other studies of cancer and diet, the data is not definitive. As I said. Do your own research, and work with your doctor. As for me, my father died of colon cancer, and I have already had one large precancerous colon polyp removed, despite exercising and being fit most of my life, never being obese, and eating a “regular” amount of cured meats, moderate alcohol and the amount of saturated fat found in a typical Western diet. As the science is unclear but some science indicates that a high intake of sat fat MAY be a risk factor, I am choosing not to take that risk for myself. But everyone should decide for themslves, which Is why I said “think twice about doing keto” rather than “don’t do keto.”

ETA my father was obese, drank moderately, did not exercise and ate a diet very rich in saturated fat.