How to Ensure a Successful Lean Bulk

dpr73 wrote: »

Cahgetsfit wrote: »

I struggle with embracing the fat that comes along with bulking too, so I feel ya! But, you just have to embrace the fat! You don't need to go overboard fat, have a slight surplus and work with that, but yeah... sorry, I don't know what advice to give.

This time around I told myself I'd be OK with a 4-5kg gain. I've gained 2 so far. It's not pretty and I feel super thick, but... no gain, no gainz, right?

Thanks for the reply. I know I’m fighting my brain so hard rn. But I’m sick of being so thin. I know that I want to be around 150 (current 133, 67in, male). But just can’t get over the fear of gaining excess fat and no muscle

dpr73 wrote: »

sardelsa wrote: »

Have you had a look through these threads? They might help you
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069962/the-former-fat-boy-girl-syndrome/p1

At the end of the day being scared of some fat gain will hold you back in the muscle building department. You can keep your surplus ultra small but over time you will still gain some fat, and you have to remember it will come off when you cut...but you really have to learn how to be ok with not being ultra lean all the time if you want to be successful.

And if you are eating in a decent (but not overly high) surplus, following proper progressive programming, getting adequate protein and being consistent, you will gain muscle. Try not to overthink it... I know it can be hard but once you run a really successful bulk you will have nothing to be afraid of because you will see the amazing results it brings and how it is worth it.

Thanks for your pointers. In your experience, how bad is the fat aesthetically? I don’t ever want to look fat. I frankly don’t care about being ultra lean. I just don’t want to gain muscle and look pudgy ever again! I want the end of my bulk to showcase the muscle and not have it hidden under loads of fat, if that makes sense

dpr73 wrote: »

sardelsa wrote: »

dpr73 wrote: »

sardelsa wrote: »

Have you had a look through these threads? They might help you
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069962/the-former-fat-boy-girl-syndrome/p1

At the end of the day being scared of some fat gain will hold you back in the muscle building department. You can keep your surplus ultra small but over time you will still gain some fat, and you have to remember it will come off when you cut...but you really have to learn how to be ok with not being ultra lean all the time if you want to be successful.

And if you are eating in a decent (but not overly high) surplus, following proper progressive programming, getting adequate protein and being consistent, you will gain muscle. Try not to overthink it... I know it can be hard but once you run a really successful bulk you will have nothing to be afraid of because you will see the amazing results it brings and how it is worth it.

Thanks for your pointers. In your experience, how bad is the fat aesthetically? I don’t ever want to look fat. I frankly don’t care about being ultra lean. I just don’t want to gain muscle and look pudgy ever again! I want the end of my bulk to showcase the muscle and not have it hidden under loads of fat, if that makes sense

Honestly it depends on how you view yourself and how much you gain. For me nothing is worse than pregnancy so bulking is pretty easy for me. Haha. I did look a bit pudgy at the end of my bulks but I also don't gain a lot of fat in my stomach which helps mentally. But if you run a lean bulk your bodyfat shouldn't go too high, but again it also depends where you genetically put on fat.

Here is an example of my last bulk. I gained about 15lbs, as you can see not too bad, but a little uncomfortable compared to how lean I like to be. Usually the more you do it the more you get used to it. Usually!

You are right it is not that crazy. Great job btw! If you dont mind me asking, how did you structure this bulk? Did you do 15lbs on and then how much did you cut off?

mmapags wrote: »

lukejoycePT wrote: »

dpr73 wrote: »

So this is my third or fourth time on here trying to Bulk...I lost weight 6 years ago and have always wanted to get into building muscle (I lift constantly and really have a passion for it) and bodybuilding (would like to use my skills to better my physique). However, I always fail to follow through. I know that there are a few culprits:
(1) I get militant with counting. I count every calorie 100% accurately and allow for maybe one meal out a week that I do not count. On the days I do eat out or drink some alcohol, I don’t even go Wild...so if anything it diminishes my daily surplus for that day. But I don’t want to go over board either
(2) I get discouraged that I am not going to put on muscle when I bulk. I convince myself that whatever I’m gaining is just fat and quit.

So as you can see this is stemming from a fear of returning to my fat boy days. I know this is always going to stop me from successfully bulking and I am never going to stop wanting this either. So...any pointers on how to ensure success this time around?

ALSO: if anyone would be able to look over some pictures of me and estimate my body fat and give me a reasonable end goal to strive towards it would be appreciated!

1. Find you maintenance calorie goal and add 200 calories to it.
2. Track your weight over a month. If you gain 0.5lbs then stick with that calorie goal. if you gain more drop it 100 calories. If you gain nothing add another 100 calories.
3. Lift heavy, compound movements such a deadlifts and squats.
4. Keep up the cardio
5. Fast now and then to let your gut heal and reduce bloating.

NOTE; Bulking is a crazy term, you only need to eat a small amount above your maintenance, Adding muscle is a SUPER slow process unless you are a genetic freak.

It is so much slower than fat loss.

If you are getting stronger in the gym then you are gaining muscle.

As a trainer, you would know that getting stronger =/= gaining muscle. One can get stronger due to neuromuscular adaptions even in a deficit, depending on the state of their training. Also, heavy compound exercises are not the most ideal for hypertrophy. They can certainly be part of a well structured program but the ideal rep range for hypertrophy is 8 to 12.

Hypertrophy is dependant on volume. Lifting "heavy" is typically a rep range of 3 to 5. An untrained person will realize some hypertrophy from low rep/ high weight. But a trained person, as it sounds like the OP is, likely won't. Also, the stuff about fasting and letting your gut heal is just plain woo.

OP, a small surplus and a good program like PHAT or PHUL will get it done for you. But the challenge of overcoming your fears is your biggest obstacle.

mmapags wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

mmapags wrote: »

lukejoycePT wrote: »

dpr73 wrote: »

So this is my third or fourth time on here trying to Bulk...I lost weight 6 years ago and have always wanted to get into building muscle (I lift constantly and really have a passion for it) and bodybuilding (would like to use my skills to better my physique). However, I always fail to follow through. I know that there are a few culprits:
(1) I get militant with counting. I count every calorie 100% accurately and allow for maybe one meal out a week that I do not count. On the days I do eat out or drink some alcohol, I don’t even go Wild...so if anything it diminishes my daily surplus for that day. But I don’t want to go over board either
(2) I get discouraged that I am not going to put on muscle when I bulk. I convince myself that whatever I’m gaining is just fat and quit.

So as you can see this is stemming from a fear of returning to my fat boy days. I know this is always going to stop me from successfully bulking and I am never going to stop wanting this either. So...any pointers on how to ensure success this time around?

ALSO: if anyone would be able to look over some pictures of me and estimate my body fat and give me a reasonable end goal to strive towards it would be appreciated!

1. Find you maintenance calorie goal and add 200 calories to it.
2. Track your weight over a month. If you gain 0.5lbs then stick with that calorie goal. if you gain more drop it 100 calories. If you gain nothing add another 100 calories.
3. Lift heavy, compound movements such a deadlifts and squats.
4. Keep up the cardio
5. Fast now and then to let your gut heal and reduce bloating.

NOTE; Bulking is a crazy term, you only need to eat a small amount above your maintenance, Adding muscle is a SUPER slow process unless you are a genetic freak.

It is so much slower than fat loss.

If you are getting stronger in the gym then you are gaining muscle.

As a trainer, you would know that getting stronger =/= gaining muscle. One can get stronger due to neuromuscular adaptions even in a deficit, depending on the state of their training. Also, heavy compound exercises are not the most ideal for hypertrophy. They can certainly be part of a well structured program but the ideal rep range for hypertrophy is 8 to 12.

Hypertrophy is dependant on volume. Lifting "heavy" is typically a rep range of 3 to 5. An untrained person will realize some hypertrophy from low rep/ high weight. But a trained person, as it sounds like the OP is, likely won't. Also, the stuff about fasting and letting your gut heal is just plain woo.

OP, a small surplus and a good program like PHAT or PHUL will get it done for you. But the challenge of overcoming your fears is your biggest obstacle.

Not sure why you're saying heavy work is not critical for building muscle when both the programs you suggest have basically half the training days devoted to heavy compound movements and low reps.

PHAT has 2 heavy lifting days a week.
http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-feature-layne-norton-training-series-full-powerhypertrophy-routine-updated-2011.html

as does PHAT
https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/phul-workout

It would also be interesting for the OP to come back and describe what his "lifting constantly" means, as in how long has he been doing it and what type of program. If he has been lifting for a short time and most of that lifting entails worshiping at the preacher curl bench is is not a trained person.

As OP mentions, posting some pictures would help.

Except that is not really what I said. So, either I was not clear enough or you didn't really understand what I posted. I posted in response to a recommendation to

Lift heavy, compound movements such a deadlifts and squats.

and I said,

They can certainly be part of a well structured program

PHUL (Power Hypertrophy Upper Lower) and PHAT (Power Hypertrophy Adaptive Training) both operate on a stair step principle with days of strength training and days of hypertrophy training. I believe that to be an effective approach. You gain some strength and then you can perform more volume on the hypertrophy days and on and on. To lift heavy compound movements will greatly improve strength but have less effective results for hypertrophy and vice versa.

An approach that is solely "heavy, compound movements" leaves out the important hypertrophy, or muscle growing piece. The poster who made that recommendation says they are a trainer yet, they don't seems to understand the difference between neuromuscular adaptation for strength gains and hypertrophy for muscle building (as in building mass). As a side note, the work of Mike Israetel has lots of great information on training for hypertrophy. He is considered the authority on it in body building.

But the OP never asked for programming input. So, enough with that rabbit hole and derail. I'm not sure what they are asking for other than how to overcome the mental hurdle of gaining. They are at the low end of BMI. While a pictures and info on their lifting program would be another piece of the puzzle, at that weight and BMI there is plenty of room to bulk. Their BF% is likely fairly low.

all your testosterone comes from you legs

dpr73 wrote: »

To weigh in, I have been following PHUL for a year now. As I expected I have no real muscle gains due to my fear of gaining weight. I want to be more muscular but I just cannot get over the fact that I fear the fat.

I am trying a new program on this current program that was passed along to me by a power lifting trainer. It incorporates all the big lifts with heavy days and progressive overload built into it.

Again as everyone has alluded to, my biggest concern is the weight gain. I just do not want to look fat even after a clean bulk. I would rather be skinny for the rest of my life than look out of shape. BUT over anything I want to have more muscle and just cannot get over the fear.

I think most settling is hearing that even at the end of my bulk, if run at an appropriate surplus, I will never look out of shape or chubby. Is this true tho?

dpr73 wrote: »

sardelsa wrote: »

dpr73 wrote: »

To weigh in, I have been following PHUL for a year now. As I expected I have no real muscle gains due to my fear of gaining weight. I want to be more muscular but I just cannot get over the fact that I fear the fat.

I am trying a new program on this current program that was passed along to me by a power lifting trainer. It incorporates all the big lifts with heavy days and progressive overload built into it.

Again as everyone has alluded to, my biggest concern is the weight gain. I just do not want to look fat even after a clean bulk. I would rather be skinny for the rest of my life than look out of shape. BUT over anything I want to have more muscle and just cannot get over the fear.

I think most settling is hearing that even at the end of my bulk, if run at an appropriate surplus, I will never look out of shape or chubby. Is this true tho?

It really depends on your idea of out of shape and how/where you gain fat. You will probably have to get at least a little uncomfortable .. but I find that is when the magic happens. Maybe some males can post some before and post-bulk photos to give you an idea? But in the end saying you would rather look skinny forever than temporarily out of shape, that will hold you back. I would try to work on that mentality if you truly want to make progress.

As someone in medicine, I just can’t get on board with making myself fat just to build some muscle. Now gaining fat (which I see as different from getting fat) is ok with me. Just as long as people never say “gee ______ is getting fat what is he doing to himself?”