Friend making unwise choices
HoneyBadger302
Posts: 2,085 Member
One of my best friends is working to lose some weight (she's done it many years ago, so not her first go-around), and I'm really struggling to keep my mouth shut and be supportive when I know the choices she's making are a) unsafe/unhealthy, b) not sustainable, and c) things I know she won't stick with.
I really want to be supportive as I'm working on myself as well, and I know she could use the support. She is obese (upwards of 300+ pounds, F, ~42, ~5'9"). She is trying to limit herself to 1200 calories (or less) and trying to add in exercise at the same time.
On the one hand I totally get that she's made up her mind and she wants the weight gone, but I also can see that in the past she went from overweight, to obese, to tiny (claims a size 4), and back to obese in a matter of years. She's my friend and I care about her health and that she feels good, both inside and outside, and I know her choices are setting her up for failure.
Besides gentle hints (she's made it clear she doesn't want my advice), have you had success helping someone make wiser choices? I'm thinking of finding some articles that could pertain to both of us, from actual experts, as suggested reading (as in, "hey, I read this great article, thought it might interest you, too") but otherwise don't really have any great ideas on how to be super supportive without condoning what she's doing....
I really want to be supportive as I'm working on myself as well, and I know she could use the support. She is obese (upwards of 300+ pounds, F, ~42, ~5'9"). She is trying to limit herself to 1200 calories (or less) and trying to add in exercise at the same time.
On the one hand I totally get that she's made up her mind and she wants the weight gone, but I also can see that in the past she went from overweight, to obese, to tiny (claims a size 4), and back to obese in a matter of years. She's my friend and I care about her health and that she feels good, both inside and outside, and I know her choices are setting her up for failure.
Besides gentle hints (she's made it clear she doesn't want my advice), have you had success helping someone make wiser choices? I'm thinking of finding some articles that could pertain to both of us, from actual experts, as suggested reading (as in, "hey, I read this great article, thought it might interest you, too") but otherwise don't really have any great ideas on how to be super supportive without condoning what she's doing....
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Replies
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Not much you can do, unfortunately. Try the compliment sandwich. Were it me, I'd probably say something like "I'm proud of you for trying to make a change to get healthy. I know you don't want advice, so I won't give you any, but I want you to know that I'm worried that the specific eating plan you're embarking on is unsafe and unsustainable. I care about you, and so I couldn't in good conscience watch you do this without making sure you knew how I felt. You're my friend, and I have your back, so if you ever want to talk about this, I'm here."14
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HoneyBadger155 wrote: »One of my best friends is working to lose some weight (she's done it many years ago, so not her first go-around), and I'm really struggling to keep my mouth shut and be supportive when I know the choices she's making are a) unsafe/unhealthy, b) not sustainable, and c) things I know she won't stick with.
I really want to be supportive as I'm working on myself as well, and I know she could use the support. She is obese (upwards of 300+ pounds, F, ~42, ~5'9"). She is trying to limit herself to 1200 calories (or less) and trying to add in exercise at the same time.
On the one hand I totally get that she's made up her mind and she wants the weight gone, but I also can see that in the past she went from overweight, to obese, to tiny (claims a size 4), and back to obese in a matter of years. She's my friend and I care about her health and that she feels good, both inside and outside, and I know her choices are setting her up for failure.
Besides gentle hints (she's made it clear she doesn't want my advice), have you had success helping someone make wiser choices? I'm thinking of finding some articles that could pertain to both of us, from actual experts, as suggested reading (as in, "hey, I read this great article, thought it might interest you, too") but otherwise don't really have any great ideas on how to be super supportive without condoning what she's doing....
Bolded: Then don't hint or give any advice. She is an adult and if she makes unwise choices it is not your responsibility to do anything about it. Just try and be an example and hope that she asks eventually.
The good news is that at her weight she has a lot of fat stores to protect her. The bad news is that she will most likely fail and possibly have more fat stores next time she tries.24 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »One of my best friends is working to lose some weight (she's done it many years ago, so not her first go-around), and I'm really struggling to keep my mouth shut and be supportive when I know the choices she's making are a) unsafe/unhealthy, b) not sustainable, and c) things I know she won't stick with.
I really want to be supportive as I'm working on myself as well, and I know she could use the support. She is obese (upwards of 300+ pounds, F, ~42, ~5'9"). She is trying to limit herself to 1200 calories (or less) and trying to add in exercise at the same time.
On the one hand I totally get that she's made up her mind and she wants the weight gone, but I also can see that in the past she went from overweight, to obese, to tiny (claims a size 4), and back to obese in a matter of years. She's my friend and I care about her health and that she feels good, both inside and outside, and I know her choices are setting her up for failure.
Besides gentle hints (she's made it clear she doesn't want my advice), have you had success helping someone make wiser choices? I'm thinking of finding some articles that could pertain to both of us, from actual experts, as suggested reading (as in, "hey, I read this great article, thought it might interest you, too") but otherwise don't really have any great ideas on how to be super supportive without condoning what she's doing....
Bolded: Then don't hint or give any advice. She is an adult and if she makes unwise choices it is not your responsibility to do anything about it. Just try and be an example and hope that she asks eventually.
The good news is that at her weight she has a lot of fat stores to protect her. The bad news is that she will most likely fail and possibly have more fat stores next time she tries.
QFT. OP, leave it alone. If and when she's ready to heed your advice, she'll ask for it.14 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »One of my best friends is working to lose some weight (she's done it many years ago, so not her first go-around), and I'm really struggling to keep my mouth shut and be supportive when I know the choices she's making are a) unsafe/unhealthy, b) not sustainable, and c) things I know she won't stick with.
I really want to be supportive as I'm working on myself as well, and I know she could use the support. She is obese (upwards of 300+ pounds, F, ~42, ~5'9"). She is trying to limit herself to 1200 calories (or less) and trying to add in exercise at the same time.
On the one hand I totally get that she's made up her mind and she wants the weight gone, but I also can see that in the past she went from overweight, to obese, to tiny (claims a size 4), and back to obese in a matter of years. She's my friend and I care about her health and that she feels good, both inside and outside, and I know her choices are setting her up for failure.
Besides gentle hints (she's made it clear she doesn't want my advice), have you had success helping someone make wiser choices? I'm thinking of finding some articles that could pertain to both of us, from actual experts, as suggested reading (as in, "hey, I read this great article, thought it might interest you, too") but otherwise don't really have any great ideas on how to be super supportive without condoning what she's doing....
Bolded: Then don't hint or give any advice. She is an adult and if she makes unwise choices it is not your responsibility to do anything about it. Just try and be an example and hope that she asks eventually.
The good news is that at her weight she has a lot of fat stores to protect her. The bad news is that she will most likely fail and possibly have more fat stores next time she tries.
Agreed.
Based on her weight, she's got some time before unhealthy/unsafe decisions actually become unhealthy/unsafe. Hopefully things moderate out a bit before that.7 -
I'm curious how she's trying to lose the weight this time. Unhealthy could be mean anything depending on the person.
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If you make a change yourself, she might ask you about it and she might express an interest in joining. Or, it's possible your success intimidates her.
Go for walks together or some other physical activity, or even have lunch. Lots to do without making it unwanted advice.5 -
Ya, that's pretty much where I'm at, but she wants me to be her support system, which I've already agreed to do, and I know she could use a support system. I'll give it some time and see if things level out a bit, even if her dedication is through the roof I would think things will tend to level out and I'll just do my best to help her keep from rebounding when the time comes.2
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I would ask if her doctor approves of the extreme changes. But I agree with what these folks are saying too. It's hard to watch a friend make harmful choices, but they need to figure it out themselves. You can't force them to change.0
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HoneyBadger155 wrote: »One of my best friends is working to lose some weight (she's done it many years ago, so not her first go-around), and I'm really struggling to keep my mouth shut and be supportive when I know the choices she's making are a) unsafe/unhealthy, b) not sustainable, and c) things I know she won't stick with.
I really want to be supportive as I'm working on myself as well, and I know she could use the support. She is obese (upwards of 300+ pounds, F, ~42, ~5'9"). She is trying to limit herself to 1200 calories (or less) and trying to add in exercise at the same time.
On the one hand I totally get that she's made up her mind and she wants the weight gone, but I also can see that in the past she went from overweight, to obese, to tiny (claims a size 4), and back to obese in a matter of years. She's my friend and I care about her health and that she feels good, both inside and outside, and I know her choices are setting her up for failure.
Besides gentle hints (she's made it clear she doesn't want my advice), have you had success helping someone make wiser choices? I'm thinking of finding some articles that could pertain to both of us, from actual experts, as suggested reading (as in, "hey, I read this great article, thought it might interest you, too") but otherwise don't really have any great ideas on how to be super supportive without condoning what she's doing....
A lot of people gasp at 1200, but I've been doing that for about 6 months ranging between 1000-1400 with the exercise. I've learned my metabolism is quite slow - I'm also in my 40's. Anything over about 1600 I gain weight. I've lost close to 40 lbs over 7 months, have logged every day - I work with a nutritionist, and get my labs done. My body is quite healthy now - I do water exercise only pretty much 4 times a week, my life is typically sedentary. Sooo, yes 1200 can be done badly based on choices (I have very little liquid calories, majority is food I need - an occasional splurge of chocolate or tortilla chips), but it can also be done properly, based on nutritional selections. I'd recommend that you support her and encourage her to work with a nutritionist who specializes in weight loss. However if your friend is working out every day for 2-3 hours, yes she will not have the calories likely she needs.15 -
Sometimes people have to make their own mistakes. If she does not want advice and is not in obvious, immediate danger, then let her do her thing. Maybe she'll ask for advice, maybe she'll figure out what works for her on her own, maybe she'll fail (hopefully not).3
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If she won't listen to you, just be an example for her. You're losing weight the healthy way, and she knows how you're doing it, so maybe when she throws in the towel and gains weight again, she'll think, "Hey, my friend is looking pretty good these days. Maybe I should try it their way!"5
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With over 80% of people that lose weight gaining it all back within 5 years, some who gain even more weight, the question of sustainability is true for over 80% of us, no matter how the weight is lost.
She’s an adult. Has done this before. Knows herself better than anyone. Support her. Give advice if she asks.4 -
If it is feasible, I would plan on eating a least one meal a week with her. That could set the table for a discussion on wise food choices, portion control, mindful eating, etc. You can be supportive by showing solidarity. 1200 calories a day is not starvation if she is watching her macros and she should see results soon but rapid loss can lead to other health issues. She should talk to her doctor.6
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If it is feasible, I would plan on eating a least one meal a week with her. That could set the table for a discussion on wise food choices, portion control, mindful eating, etc. You can be supportive by showing solidarity. 1200 calories a day is not starvation if she is watching her macros and she should see results soon but rapid loss can lead to other health issues. She should talk to her doctor.
If I was the person trying to lose weight, and my friend started making unwanted comments on my weight loss efforts when we had lunch together, I would do everything possible to not have lunch with that person anymore.23 -
Sometimes you have to fail hard to see that certain paths aren't the best. I did this many times. Let her make her mistakes and be there when she needs a friend to vent/cry to.4
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If it is feasible, I would plan on eating a least one meal a week with her. That could set the table for a discussion on wise food choices, portion control, mindful eating, etc. You can be supportive by showing solidarity. 1200 calories a day is not starvation if she is watching her macros and she should see results soon but rapid loss can lead to other health issues. She should talk to her doctor.
If I was the person trying to lose weight, and my friend started making unwanted comments on my weight loss efforts when we had lunch together, I would do everything possible to not have lunch with that person anymore.
If I understood the first post here, I don't think the idea was that I make unsolicited comments, but more just the whole "setting an example" and having regular in face interactions which could lead to discussions if friend asked questions or the conversation went there naturally.
Since my friend doesn't live close by, it's not really an option in this particular case anyways.1 -
What's the dynamic like between you two? Do you talk about your approaches, struggles, successes, etc? If so, you can be somewhat passive aggressive about the things you're doing/learning and where you're succeeding/failing in hopes that it osmoses in for her. Obviously that's a pretty fine line to walk, but...1
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I would have to say something or my head would explode. However, I wouldn’t expect it to go well.
My tactic would be to talk about diets in general without ever mentioning her or what she’s doing, since you are both working on your weight. Something like, “I was reading about how people who have lost a bunch of weight and kept it off long term did it, and it turns out most people who are successful long term do X. I think it’s worth a try for me. What do you think?”
Asking someone for advice is more likely to be well received than giving unsolicited advice, and will at least force her to think through what she’s doing.2 -
It is really hard to see someone you care about is struggling. But in the end they're an adult and it sounds like they aren't interested in advice, which is too bad, but often (unfortunately) the case.
Some folks learn best the hard way.
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By the way, you can mention that your buddy online who started at a similar weight as her and lost 125 lbs also lost a bunch of hair six months after starting because of carrying too steep a deficit in the beginning.4
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Unsolicited advice generally doesn’t work, and could cause resentment. You value her friendship. If she asks, tell her what worked for you.
1200 calories isn’t starving. To show some perspective, Dr Now’s diet for “My 600 Pound Life” patients, is low carb, high protein, 1000-1200 calories. If you want to give any unsolicited advice, tell her to get her primary care givers advice.9 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »One of my best friends is working to lose some weight (she's done it many years ago, so not her first go-around), and I'm really struggling to keep my mouth shut and be supportive when I know the choices she's making are a) unsafe/unhealthy, b) not sustainable, and c) things I know she won't stick with.
I really want to be supportive as I'm working on myself as well, and I know she could use the support. She is obese (upwards of 300+ pounds, F, ~42, ~5'9"). She is trying to limit herself to 1200 calories (or less) and trying to add in exercise at the same time.
On the one hand I totally get that she's made up her mind and she wants the weight gone, but I also can see that in the past she went from overweight, to obese, to tiny (claims a size 4), and back to obese in a matter of years. She's my friend and I care about her health and that she feels good, both inside and outside, and I know her choices are setting her up for failure.
Besides gentle hints (she's made it clear she doesn't want my advice), have you had success helping someone make wiser choices? I'm thinking of finding some articles that could pertain to both of us, from actual experts, as suggested reading (as in, "hey, I read this great article, thought it might interest you, too") but otherwise don't really have any great ideas on how to be super supportive without condoning what she's doing....
Well, her PLAN is to lose weight rather quickly, but reality may interfere. As you know from reading the forums, people are terrible at calculating how much they eat and many are eating more than they think. Also, the honeymoon period could fade quickly.
She may drop a lot of weight initially, especially water weight in the first week, but I wouldn't start worrying unless she is still sustaining rapid weight loss a month or so in, at which point you could drop this on her:
What Are the Risks of Rapid Weight Loss?
Rapid weight loss creates physical demands on the body. Possible serious risks include:- Gallstones, which occur in 12% to 25% of people losing large amounts of weight over several months
- Dehydration, which can be avoided by drinking plenty of fluids
- Malnutrition, usually from not eating enough protein for weeks at a time
- Electrolyte imbalances, which rarely can be life threatening
Other side effects of rapid weight loss include:- Headaches
- Irritability
- Fatigue
- Dizziness
- Constipation
- Menstrual irregularities
- Hair loss
- Muscle loss
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Quite honestly I'd mind my own business. 1200 calories a day is fine and who cares if she's always exercising. Where do you think you are?17
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ShayCarver89 wrote: »Quite honestly I'd mind my own business. 1200 calories a day is fine and who cares if she's always exercising. Where do you think you are?
I'm not quite clear...
What do you really think about all this?4 -
ShayCarver89 wrote: »Quite honestly I'd mind my own business. 1200 calories a day is fine and who cares if she's always exercising. Where do you think you are?
1200 calories is not appropriate for a 300ish pound woman who exercises without medical supervision. Where do you think you are?14 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »Ya, that's pretty much where I'm at, but she wants me to be her support system, which I've already agreed to do, and I know she could use a support system. I'll give it some time and see if things level out a bit, even if her dedication is through the roof I would think things will tend to level out and I'll just do my best to help her keep from rebounding when the time comes.
It’s almost impossible to be a support system for someone when you two are not aligned on the plan! I hope she doesn’t rely on you alone for her support, because the motivation and willpower has to come from her, otherwise it’s not sustainable.
I would gently back away from the “sole support system and advice-giver” role and just be there in a more listening-and-non-judging role. If she talks about how tough things are and about how she’s wavering, reassure her, remind her about the big picture and that she’s come a long way and not to sweat the small stuff. remind her that you care about her. But if she has said she doesn’t want to take specific advice, no need to offer it, or get into the nitty gritty of what she might be doing wrong.
If you’re like me and you can’t stand seeing someone make the same mistakes over and over again, back off a little bit from that aspect of their life (dieting/weight management) and focus more on other health-unrelated activities where the two of you can enjoy hanging out together.
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She is not going to follow your unwanted advice. You may as well save your breath and enjoy other topics and activities that are unrelated to weight loss.
Now...with that said, I know how hard it is to watch this happen. I was around 300, slowly lost 40, then less-slowly lost another 90 here. I've maintained for six years and am happy.
Friend was maybe 250-260 lb, lost 80 lb VERY rapidly while starving herself during her divorce. Gained back about 120 lb. She is miserable, bitter, and constantly blowing money on weight loss shakes, "that wrap thing", workout DVDs, anything that promises fast easy weight loss. She blames others, she blames so many things, and she doesn't want to follow others' suggestions of advice. It stings a little that she didn't do MFP for more than 2 days and she tells me it doesn't work but I had "a metabolism shift" and I am "sooo lucky".
But if I want to stay friends with her, I don't talk about any of this and I don't offer advice to her. I change the subject. It's taken me about 3 years to finally get this through my skull!16 -
Losing battle. People do what they do with dieting based on things that are deep inside. Not dieting at all is a choice. Taking a moderate and steady approach is a choice. Launching an extreme, unrealistic diet that will fail within 4-6 weeks (if not sooner) is a choice. That choice is based on a lot of internal factors such as self-esteem, ability to methodically work toward long-term goals in general, private and perhaps not fully conscious/articulated beliefs about whether ambitious goals can really be achieved or not, whether the work that is required to achieve the goal is even something the person honestly wants to do (a big assumption which is not at all the same thing as "I want to be thin"), and so on. External factors like someone offering advice are very low on the totem pole of what makes dieting behavior happen.
I have a very close relation who is in a more dire situation than the above, in terms of weight/height. She has struggled with weight and self-esteem issues her entire life and it has gotten worse in recent years. Meanwhile, my wife and I have been plugging away for months at a moderately paced but disciplined and structured program of reasonable CICO, daily exercise, and IF. The results are visible on us now and our relation is getting the hint that everyone needs to get on board this train. But she careens back and forth between starving herself, going on uncontrolled food binges, eating highly processed frozen food because it's calorie controlled, then not eating it because it tastes like crap and going out for fast food, then losing 3 pounds and needing a big reward, which of course is food and lots of it, then buying small calorie controlled snacks and then eating all of them one night, and so on and on. An endless cycle a lot of us are familiar with and can sympathize with. We have tried to talk to / help her with this for 20+ years and recently, tried to nudge her toward strict but moderate/comfortable calorie counting, healthy eating, getting some damn exercise, and maybe thinking about IF since her big problem is nighttime snacking. Nothing works.
The reason it doesn't work is, simply, that she isn't ready to do something that works. A workable plan would take effort and faith in the plan and wouldn't offer a lot of immediate reward. She's still in the chaotic phase of "I'm hungry ... I went over a friend's house and there was a buffet so the whole week is shot ... I need to lose 100+ pounds ... I feel ashamed and terrible about myself ... I deserve a break ... I feel terrible for taking a break ..."
If and when she gets to "OK, enough nonsense, I am going to count and log and lose 2 lbs per week", then she'll do it. No one else can do it for her. It has to come from inside. When someone is ready for it, they do it right.
It is much easier to fail at 1200 calories in a month than to succeed at 1600 calories over the course of a year or two.8 -
You’ve outlined your concerns. She’s chosen to ignore you. Her body. Her life. She can make bad decisions if she likes. Not much more you can do.1
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The best thing you can do is listen to her. When she loses a few pounds, cheer with her. When she gains a few, be sympathetic. You don’t have to agree with her methods in order to be supportive.8
This discussion has been closed.
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