Friend making unwise choices
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Unsolicited advice generally doesn’t work, and could cause resentment. You value her friendship. If she asks, tell her what worked for you.
1200 calories isn’t starving. To show some perspective, Dr Now’s diet for “My 600 Pound Life” patients, is low carb, high protein, 1000-1200 calories. If you want to give any unsolicited advice, tell her to get her primary care givers advice.9 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »One of my best friends is working to lose some weight (she's done it many years ago, so not her first go-around), and I'm really struggling to keep my mouth shut and be supportive when I know the choices she's making are a) unsafe/unhealthy, b) not sustainable, and c) things I know she won't stick with.
I really want to be supportive as I'm working on myself as well, and I know she could use the support. She is obese (upwards of 300+ pounds, F, ~42, ~5'9"). She is trying to limit herself to 1200 calories (or less) and trying to add in exercise at the same time.
On the one hand I totally get that she's made up her mind and she wants the weight gone, but I also can see that in the past she went from overweight, to obese, to tiny (claims a size 4), and back to obese in a matter of years. She's my friend and I care about her health and that she feels good, both inside and outside, and I know her choices are setting her up for failure.
Besides gentle hints (she's made it clear she doesn't want my advice), have you had success helping someone make wiser choices? I'm thinking of finding some articles that could pertain to both of us, from actual experts, as suggested reading (as in, "hey, I read this great article, thought it might interest you, too") but otherwise don't really have any great ideas on how to be super supportive without condoning what she's doing....
Well, her PLAN is to lose weight rather quickly, but reality may interfere. As you know from reading the forums, people are terrible at calculating how much they eat and many are eating more than they think. Also, the honeymoon period could fade quickly.
She may drop a lot of weight initially, especially water weight in the first week, but I wouldn't start worrying unless she is still sustaining rapid weight loss a month or so in, at which point you could drop this on her:
What Are the Risks of Rapid Weight Loss?
Rapid weight loss creates physical demands on the body. Possible serious risks include:- Gallstones, which occur in 12% to 25% of people losing large amounts of weight over several months
- Dehydration, which can be avoided by drinking plenty of fluids
- Malnutrition, usually from not eating enough protein for weeks at a time
- Electrolyte imbalances, which rarely can be life threatening
Other side effects of rapid weight loss include:- Headaches
- Irritability
- Fatigue
- Dizziness
- Constipation
- Menstrual irregularities
- Hair loss
- Muscle loss
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Quite honestly I'd mind my own business. 1200 calories a day is fine and who cares if she's always exercising. Where do you think you are?17
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ShayCarver89 wrote: »Quite honestly I'd mind my own business. 1200 calories a day is fine and who cares if she's always exercising. Where do you think you are?
I'm not quite clear...
What do you really think about all this?4 -
ShayCarver89 wrote: »Quite honestly I'd mind my own business. 1200 calories a day is fine and who cares if she's always exercising. Where do you think you are?
1200 calories is not appropriate for a 300ish pound woman who exercises without medical supervision. Where do you think you are?14 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »Ya, that's pretty much where I'm at, but she wants me to be her support system, which I've already agreed to do, and I know she could use a support system. I'll give it some time and see if things level out a bit, even if her dedication is through the roof I would think things will tend to level out and I'll just do my best to help her keep from rebounding when the time comes.
It’s almost impossible to be a support system for someone when you two are not aligned on the plan! I hope she doesn’t rely on you alone for her support, because the motivation and willpower has to come from her, otherwise it’s not sustainable.
I would gently back away from the “sole support system and advice-giver” role and just be there in a more listening-and-non-judging role. If she talks about how tough things are and about how she’s wavering, reassure her, remind her about the big picture and that she’s come a long way and not to sweat the small stuff. remind her that you care about her. But if she has said she doesn’t want to take specific advice, no need to offer it, or get into the nitty gritty of what she might be doing wrong.
If you’re like me and you can’t stand seeing someone make the same mistakes over and over again, back off a little bit from that aspect of their life (dieting/weight management) and focus more on other health-unrelated activities where the two of you can enjoy hanging out together.
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She is not going to follow your unwanted advice. You may as well save your breath and enjoy other topics and activities that are unrelated to weight loss.
Now...with that said, I know how hard it is to watch this happen. I was around 300, slowly lost 40, then less-slowly lost another 90 here. I've maintained for six years and am happy.
Friend was maybe 250-260 lb, lost 80 lb VERY rapidly while starving herself during her divorce. Gained back about 120 lb. She is miserable, bitter, and constantly blowing money on weight loss shakes, "that wrap thing", workout DVDs, anything that promises fast easy weight loss. She blames others, she blames so many things, and she doesn't want to follow others' suggestions of advice. It stings a little that she didn't do MFP for more than 2 days and she tells me it doesn't work but I had "a metabolism shift" and I am "sooo lucky".
But if I want to stay friends with her, I don't talk about any of this and I don't offer advice to her. I change the subject. It's taken me about 3 years to finally get this through my skull!16 -
Losing battle. People do what they do with dieting based on things that are deep inside. Not dieting at all is a choice. Taking a moderate and steady approach is a choice. Launching an extreme, unrealistic diet that will fail within 4-6 weeks (if not sooner) is a choice. That choice is based on a lot of internal factors such as self-esteem, ability to methodically work toward long-term goals in general, private and perhaps not fully conscious/articulated beliefs about whether ambitious goals can really be achieved or not, whether the work that is required to achieve the goal is even something the person honestly wants to do (a big assumption which is not at all the same thing as "I want to be thin"), and so on. External factors like someone offering advice are very low on the totem pole of what makes dieting behavior happen.
I have a very close relation who is in a more dire situation than the above, in terms of weight/height. She has struggled with weight and self-esteem issues her entire life and it has gotten worse in recent years. Meanwhile, my wife and I have been plugging away for months at a moderately paced but disciplined and structured program of reasonable CICO, daily exercise, and IF. The results are visible on us now and our relation is getting the hint that everyone needs to get on board this train. But she careens back and forth between starving herself, going on uncontrolled food binges, eating highly processed frozen food because it's calorie controlled, then not eating it because it tastes like crap and going out for fast food, then losing 3 pounds and needing a big reward, which of course is food and lots of it, then buying small calorie controlled snacks and then eating all of them one night, and so on and on. An endless cycle a lot of us are familiar with and can sympathize with. We have tried to talk to / help her with this for 20+ years and recently, tried to nudge her toward strict but moderate/comfortable calorie counting, healthy eating, getting some damn exercise, and maybe thinking about IF since her big problem is nighttime snacking. Nothing works.
The reason it doesn't work is, simply, that she isn't ready to do something that works. A workable plan would take effort and faith in the plan and wouldn't offer a lot of immediate reward. She's still in the chaotic phase of "I'm hungry ... I went over a friend's house and there was a buffet so the whole week is shot ... I need to lose 100+ pounds ... I feel ashamed and terrible about myself ... I deserve a break ... I feel terrible for taking a break ..."
If and when she gets to "OK, enough nonsense, I am going to count and log and lose 2 lbs per week", then she'll do it. No one else can do it for her. It has to come from inside. When someone is ready for it, they do it right.
It is much easier to fail at 1200 calories in a month than to succeed at 1600 calories over the course of a year or two.8 -
You’ve outlined your concerns. She’s chosen to ignore you. Her body. Her life. She can make bad decisions if she likes. Not much more you can do.1
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The best thing you can do is listen to her. When she loses a few pounds, cheer with her. When she gains a few, be sympathetic. You don’t have to agree with her methods in order to be supportive.8
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It took me to become a diabetic, about to be in a wheelchair to see the light. Sometimes we have to hit near rock bottom to see it. Then hit rock bottom again to see it again.6
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Think for a moment how you have felt when someone--even someone meaning to be kind--offers you unsolicited advice. Think about how much it hurts. Think about how resentful you feel towards that person.
If she said she doesn't want your advice, don't give it. Don't hint, don't suggest, don't allude.
Love her. Accept her.6 -
1. what makes you think you are the authority on weight loss that you would be giving anyone advice? because you are member on a weight loss forum?
2. if my best friend posted about me on a weight loss forum where a bunch of strangers also chimed in to talk about me also, people that don't even know me...i would never talk to her again.
3. she doesn't want your advice. she didn't ask for your support you seem so desperate to give. so who really has the problem? why are you pushing yourself on her? back off.
4. you do you. let her do her.14 -
TLDR, but her approach sounds fine and you can support her in many ways that don’t include advice. Offer to cook or meal plan together, go for walks, take a neutrino or healthy cooking class.2
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I know how you feel. My husband doesn't track anything and sometimes estimates he only ate 600 calories on some days. He also weighs himself multiple times a day and freaks out when he gains a pound even when I tell him it's food and water. I have tried to reason with him but it falls on deaf ears. All you can do is be there for her if she fails.3
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Here’s what you do...you say nothing and keep doing the healthier plan that you’re on for the long-run. Let’s say she sticks to the 1200 and doesn’t eat back her deficit giving her 900-1000 or less calories a day to function. What’s going to happen is she’s going to completely burn out and stop her plan very quickly—or she’s going to be prone to binging when weak, tired, and hungry and not see the results she wants.
When she sees you’re getting results and maintaining—she’ll likely then ask for advice...but we learn best from failure—so you gotta let her try it her way and likely fail. Focus on being the role model she needs right now!0 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »One of my best friends is working to lose some weight (she's done it many years ago, so not her first go-around), and I'm really struggling to keep my mouth shut and be supportive when I know the choices she's making are a) unsafe/unhealthy, b) not sustainable, and c) things I know she won't stick with.
I really want to be supportive as I'm working on myself as well, and I know she could use the support. She is obese (upwards of 300+ pounds, F, ~42, ~5'9"). She is trying to limit herself to 1200 calories (or less) and trying to add in exercise at the same time.
On the one hand I totally get that she's made up her mind and she wants the weight gone, but I also can see that in the past she went from overweight, to obese, to tiny (claims a size 4), and back to obese in a matter of years. She's my friend and I care about her health and that she feels good, both inside and outside, and I know her choices are setting her up for failure.
Besides gentle hints (she's made it clear she doesn't want my advice), have you had success helping someone make wiser choices? I'm thinking of finding some articles that could pertain to both of us, from actual experts, as suggested reading (as in, "hey, I read this great article, thought it might interest you, too") but otherwise don't really have any great ideas on how to be super supportive without condoning what she's doing....
A lot of people gasp at 1200, but I've been doing that for about 6 months ranging between 1000-1400 with the exercise. I've learned my metabolism is quite slow - I'm also in my 40's. Anything over about 1600 I gain weight. I've lost close to 40 lbs over 7 months, have logged every day - I work with a nutritionist, and get my labs done. My body is quite healthy now - I do water exercise only pretty much 4 times a week, my life is typically sedentary. Sooo, yes 1200 can be done badly based on choices (I have very little liquid calories, majority is food I need - an occasional splurge of chocolate or tortilla chips), but it can also be done properly, based on nutritional selections. I'd recommend that you support her and encourage her to work with a nutritionist who specializes in weight loss. However if your friend is working out every day for 2-3 hours, yes she will not have the calories likely she needs.
Please keep in mind that height and current weight also height factor into your burned calories per day...The poster’s friend is tall and currently over 300 pounds...that could make a huge difference in the calories burned each day simply by functioning that might be very different from you. Just based on statistics, that much of a deficit based on what is described sounds unable to be maintained and potentially harmful.
Perhaps at your current weight and height that’s not as dramatic as a deficit. Also keep in mind that she’s not likely working with a nutritionist...
So if she’s taller, weights more than you, is planning to be active, and doesn’t have a nutritionist, 1000-1400 is not realistic and likely harmful in the long term.3 -
I'm in a similar situation. I'm doing a psych degree and doing a unit specifically about heath and behaviour change with eating and exercise as the major focus.. it is extremely interesting to me right now. I'm also making healthier choices and trying to change myself. I've lost well over 30kg in 7years from adopting small changes little by little. I've kept off this weight. BUT like you I have a friend who is obese and she is constantly dieting doing extreme things which bother me at both the personal level and the intellectual level. I don't see how this will change her weight and sadly it never actually does..her measures are nearly always too extreme, she changes too many things at once and whilst her motivation is high at the begining, she looses interest and is back off track. I'm always supporting her in the fallout phase of the failed attempts. It's very frustrating to be part of this cycle. I just keep on saying to her that I will support her, that I value her friendship, that I honor her choices and I respect her and I also emphasize that I can help her when she is ready and I have useful skills and advice at her disposal. I talk a bit about what I'm doing in my psych degree, where the research is at, what psychological tools are used... but the eyes glaze over 🤣. She's not interested. She is very determined to do everything her way. Has always been that way.
It's really frustrating because she chooses these fad diets that are based upon little scientific evidence and I find myself yelling inside my head.. two things get to me about it. 1. My friend is in an unhealthy cycle of behaviour and I care about her and 2. Bad science really irritates me. She is really intelligent as well. She is a mathematics lecturer. It's frustrating. As you can see, I have no real advice for you. I'm in the same boat. Offering solidarity and hoping our friends will break out of these patterns one day..2 -
I'd get this thread deleted, then tell her about this super online weight management community that you really want her to be friends with you on, because it's another place to enjoy the pleasure of her company.
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I am sorry that this will sound a bit harsh; but, I would disengage to less than full and immediate support status.
If I am not on-board with a program, if I can't make myself a believer, then I can't in good conscience offer full-on, cheering, support for something I don't believe in.
Doesn't mean I won't listen as a, generally supportive, friend, when things don't go well; but, I can not and will not make myself act as a major support pillar for something I don't believe in.1
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