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Emotional Support Dog at the Gym
Replies
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I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What about cadaver dogs, search and rescue dogs and those that visit cancer ridden children in the hospital while they're going through terrifying chemo treatments?
Drug dogs, bomb sniffing dogs too. And therapy dogs, I know a children's psychologist who uses one.
As an aside, our airport (O'Hare) security lines are way better whenever they are using the dogs (which they seem to be doing more lately). When they first got them and people were less used to them, I was surprised at how many tried to pet them even though they have vests that say clearly "working dog, don't pet" or something like that, and were being handled by an official person.
All dogs are therapy dogs, some are just freelancing
44 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What about cadaver dogs, search and rescue dogs and those that visit cancer ridden children in the hospital while they're going through terrifying chemo treatments?
Drug dogs, bomb sniffing dogs too. And therapy dogs, I know a children's psychologist who uses one.
As an aside, our airport (O'Hare) security lines are way better whenever they are using the dogs (which they seem to be doing more lately). When they first got them and people were less used to them, I was surprised at how many tried to pet them even though they have vests that say clearly "working dog, don't pet" or something like that, and were being handled by an official person.
All dogs are therapy dogs, some are just freelancing
Will work for food, shelter, and cuddles. Not unlike most people.27 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What about cadaver dogs, search and rescue dogs and those that visit cancer ridden children in the hospital while they're going through terrifying chemo treatments?
Drug dogs, bomb sniffing dogs too. And therapy dogs, I know a children's psychologist who uses one.
As an aside, our airport (O'Hare) security lines are way better whenever they are using the dogs (which they seem to be doing more lately). When they first got them and people were less used to them, I was surprised at how many tried to pet them even though they have vests that say clearly "working dog, don't pet" or something like that, and were being handled by an official person.
All dogs are therapy dogs, some are just freelancing
Will work for food, shelter, and cuddles. Not unlike most people.
It's how I survive
13 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What about cadaver dogs, search and rescue dogs and those that visit cancer ridden children in the hospital while they're going through terrifying chemo treatments?
Drug dogs, bomb sniffing dogs too. And therapy dogs, I know a children's psychologist who uses one.
As an aside, our airport (O'Hare) security lines are way better whenever they are using the dogs (which they seem to be doing more lately). When they first got them and people were less used to them, I was surprised at how many tried to pet them even though they have vests that say clearly "working dog, don't pet" or something like that, and were being handled by an official person.
All dogs are therapy dogs, some are just freelancing
Will work for food, shelter, and cuddles. Not unlike most people.
I'm not into cuddling my co-workers.11 -
24/7 servitude?
Charlie isn't a service dog. He's a rescue I picked up at the local shelter. When I got him it was clear that nobody had ever really trained him, and it was also clear that his previous owner had been elderly or frail.
This particular dog is one of the most intelligent I've ever come across, with remarkable problem solving skills. He had self taught himself some interesting tricks, some of which took a while to figure out.
He goes ahead and opens doors. He knows latches, handles, even sliding bolts.
He picks up dropped items, and anything left littering the floor.
He goes ahead and physically buffers any hard furniture you might bump into if you don't see it or lose your balance.
Most dogs would need a little help to learn these tasks, but he demonstrates a doggy characteristic that people with service dogs benefit from. He recognised a weakness in a pack member, and he gave that member extra support. Nobody made him (in fact I find it mildly irritating, though undeniably cute) and he has never been denied the choice to not "assist".
I've seen similar behaviour when one of a pair of dogs goes blind or becomes unsteady.
Looking after your family isn't servitude.29 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »My encounter with an emotional support dog at the empty gym in my apartment building:
I'm on the treadmill, almost done. A young woman walks in and I hear her walk behind me (the treadmills face the window) to the other side of the gym. Then I smell it--that wet dog smell. I look over to her and she has a yellow lab with her, perfectly well behaved. Dogs are great, but I'm allergic and just not used to being around that dog smell.
I said, 'Hi, is the dog staying?'--not mean or hostile, just a little skeptical as I'd never seen a dog in a gym.
She said, 'Oh, he's an emotional support dog. Is it okay if he stays?"
I said, 'No, that's okay, I'm about done. I'll go.' We were the only two in the gym.
The look on her face as I left was a little heartbreaking, she looked so crushed. Was I the jerk? I didn't pitch a fit, I didn't complain, I just didn't want to work out with that smell. Leaving seemed like the best solution.
Worth noting--I leave the gym for just about any minor annoyance, I don't want to be there enough to power through the annoying guy grunting loudly, or the annoying girl singing along with the music on her headphones, the guy who brings his toddler, etc.
What would your strategy be if you *were* somewhere that you really wanted to be and things like this occurred? Just curious.
I'm generally very forthright in such situations--if someone were smoking in the gym, for instance, I would pipe up immediately--but the gym in my building has very few rules, which means if I don't like the way others are conducting themselves, the onus is on me to either stay and ignore it/suck it up, or leave. I once asked the woman who sings loudly along with her music to keep it down and she said it was my problem and I should just turn up my own music. Appeals to building management fell on deaf ears--they said there is no expectation that the gym is a quiet area in the building. So if Singing Woman shows up, I leave (I usually go to the gym in the middle of the day to avoid all this). She's not breaking the rules and it makes me irrationally mad to have to listen to her screeching along with Beyonce. Like I said, the gym is not my favorite thing anyway so adding Lady Beyonce to the mix is just more than I want to deal with.
Similar to the above, the woman with the dog was presumably not breaking any rules and had every right to be there with the pooch. I just didn't want to be around the dog, so I left. Allergies really didn't play a role, I just don't like that doggy smell--the gym is pretty small.
Not sure what I would do if I were really intent on my gym time, seems like I would not have a lot of recourse.7 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What about cadaver dogs, search and rescue dogs and those that visit cancer ridden children in the hospital while they're going through terrifying chemo treatments?
Drug dogs, bomb sniffing dogs too. And therapy dogs, I know a children's psychologist who uses one.
As an aside, our airport (O'Hare) security lines are way better whenever they are using the dogs (which they seem to be doing more lately). When they first got them and people were less used to them, I was surprised at how many tried to pet them even though they have vests that say clearly "working dog, don't pet" or something like that, and were being handled by an official person.
All dogs are therapy dogs, some are just freelancing
Will work for food, shelter, and cuddles. Not unlike most people.
I'm not into cuddling my co-workers.
Well, then don't expect food and shelter from them.
17 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What about cadaver dogs, search and rescue dogs and those that visit cancer ridden children in the hospital while they're going through terrifying chemo treatments?
Drug dogs, bomb sniffing dogs too. And therapy dogs, I know a children's psychologist who uses one.
As an aside, our airport (O'Hare) security lines are way better whenever they are using the dogs (which they seem to be doing more lately). When they first got them and people were less used to them, I was surprised at how many tried to pet them even though they have vests that say clearly "working dog, don't pet" or something like that, and were being handled by an official person.
All dogs are therapy dogs, some are just freelancing
Will work for food, shelter, and cuddles. Not unlike most people.
I'm not into cuddling my co-workers.
Who said anything about coworkers? Random stranger reactions are awesome lol.4 -
glovepuppet wrote: »
Looking after your family isn't servitude.
There is just no way for me to love this statement enough.24 -
I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What I coincidence @33gail33. I was just chatting on another forum about the incredible strides my niece has taken since her mom and dad were able to acquire a service dog for her. She is autistic, and since having the dog she has made incredible progress in being able to interact with family and friends as well as simple daily functions.
Oh, she has also just recently started eating again, the animal is helping her overcome the food rejection common with some autistic folks.
The dog? She's a yellow lab mix. 100% part of the family, loved and treated like gold by everyone, and anyone who knows anything at all about dogs could clearly see the joy she has in going through her routine, hanging tight by my niece and just loving that girl.
It's very much a partnership. So, your post ...well...there is nothing even worth carrying on a conversation about, but it did warrant a reply.
The show Cat From Hell now has a Cat from Heaven segment and one featured a cat who had similarly positive effects on an autistic child. There was also one about a cat who goes to a local library and helps kids who have trouble reading feel more comfortable.
I mean, if we are still on the dogs as employees analogy, I'm going to concede that they are generally going to be better employee types than cats, but I had to plug a couple of cats too!
;-)22 -
Disability rights advocate here.
ESAs, (emotional support animals) are not covered under ADA, only Fair Housing Laws. Service animals and guide animals like dogs can be trained to the tune of $30K-$50K and higher in terms of staff/training time to assist all kinds of folks with disabilities such as blind folks, mobility impaired folks, etc. Remember, a highly trained animal provides a legal, sometimes life saving service for the human it serves. It is a very expensive 'assistive device.'
By law written in ADA all anyone can ask the person with the animal is (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? That's IT. We have all seen very poorly trained if trained at all, 'pets' like the one in the gym. This is breaking laws. This makes it much harder for folks with real disabilities and REAL service animals to access public space and programs. FAKES ruin it.
You can legally attempt to get your ESA approved by landlords/etc to stay with you in housing, but that's that's the only real place they are hands down accepted. Idiots, quite frankly, have ruined airline travel for many people by claiming their pig, peacock, untrained pit bull, etc is an ESA and have gotten kicked off or had the animal create havoc on a flight. This makes it very hard for people with disabilities to fly.
A gym is not supposed to allow ESAs by law into the facility. Asking the person the two questions above could be a way to establish that the pet needs to go, ESPECIALLY a poorly trained animal which is always obvious due to their haphazard activity. Of course people will lie in their answers. But the best way to tell if an animal is a trained service animal is how the animal behaves and how the person interacts with it.
Quietly, with quick commands, the animal is not distracted, doesn't wag it's tail all over the place and drool, hunt for food, isn't looking for attention, is focused on it's person and stays very close to it's person. The animal should not smell, be messy or dirty, should not be aggressive, not bark, and not pee or otherwise, ever, inside in a building.
This why you do NOT go up to a service animal and pet it. You ask the person with it about this or just please, ignore the animal and allow the disabled person some much needed time for their outing/workout/grocery shopping trip, etc.
That is the real way the ADA works.
Remember *why* these service animal laws were created, they are a civil rights law for equality and inclusion, NOT so you can bring your irresponsible, yappy Chihuahua to the gym.39 -
Emotional support? This sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. I wouldn’t have wanted to be the person who says something, but then again I’d probably just switch gyms if they have unleashed dogs running free.2
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I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What I coincidence @33gail33. I was just chatting on another forum about the incredible strides my niece has taken since her mom and dad were able to acquire a service dog for her. She is autistic, and since having the dog she has made incredible progress in being able to interact with family and friends as well as simple daily functions.
Oh, she has also just recently started eating again, the animal is helping her overcome the food rejection common with some autistic folks.
The dog? She's a yellow lab mix. 100% part of the family, loved and treated like gold by everyone, and anyone who knows anything at all about dogs could clearly see the joy she has in going through her routine, hanging tight by my niece and just loving that girl.
It's very much a partnership. So, your post ...well...there is nothing even worth carrying on a conversation about, but it did warrant a reply.
The show Cat From Hell now has a Cat from Heaven segment and one featured a cat who had similarly positive effects on an autistic child. There was also one about a cat who goes to a local library and helps kids who have trouble reading feel more comfortable.
I mean, if we are still on the dogs as employees analogy, I'm going to concede that they are generally going to be better employee types than cats, but I had to plug a couple of cats too!
;-)
There's everything right with a good cat I admit it's difficult to imagine a cat as a service animal/companion, but suffice to say I believe a fair number of humans sorely underestimate the benefit and value our 4 legged friends can add to a life. 7 -
bosque1234 wrote: »Disability rights advocate here.
ESAs, (emotional support animals) are not covered under ADA, only Fair Housing Laws. Service animals and guide animals like dogs can be trained to the tune of $30K-$50K and higher in terms of staff/training time to assist all kinds of folks with disabilities such as blind folks, mobility impaired folks, etc. Remember, a highly trained animal provides a legal, sometimes life saving service for the human it serves. It is a very expensive 'assistive device.'
By law written in ADA all anyone can ask the person with the animal is (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? That's IT. We have all seen very poorly trained if trained at all, 'pets' like the one in the gym. This is breaking laws. This makes it much harder for folks with real disabilities and REAL service animals to access public space and programs. FAKES ruin it.
You can legally attempt to get your ESA approved by landlords/etc to stay with you in housing, but that's that's the only real place they are hands down accepted. Idiots, quite frankly, have ruined airline travel for many people by claiming their pig, peacock, untrained pit bull, etc is an ESA and have gotten kicked off or had the animal create havoc on a flight. This makes it very hard for people with disabilities to fly.
A gym is not supposed to allow ESAs by law into the facility. Asking the person the two questions above could be a way to establish that the pet needs to go, ESPECIALLY a poorly trained animal which is always obvious due to their haphazard activity. Of course people will lie in their answers. But the best way to tell if an animal is a trained service animal is how the animal behaves and how the person interacts with it.
Quietly, with quick commands, the animal is not distracted, doesn't wag it's tail all over the place and drool, hunt for food, isn't looking for attention, is focused on it's person and stays very close to it's person. The animal should not smell, be messy or dirty, should not be aggressive, not bark, and not pee or otherwise, ever, inside in a building.
This why you do NOT go up to a service animal and pet it. You ask the person with it about this or just please, ignore the animal and allow the disabled person some much needed time for their outing/workout/grocery shopping trip, etc.
That is the real way the ADA works.
Remember *why* these service animal laws were created, they are a civil rights law for equality and inclusion, NOT so you can bring your irresponsible, yappy Chihuahua to the gym.
Very well explained.
Anyone that has ever been around a real service animal will see the vast difference in their behavior compared to (most) ESA's. I know in many cases the animals are matched to the human they will assist, and not trained until found suitable for that specific person and their assistance needs. Personality traits, physical demands, size and agility, etc were all part of the process. But all that I have ever seen are extremely efficient at the assistance they provide, and seem to love doing it. A vet I am acquaintance with has a PTSD service dog, and their bond is like a parent and child.
I worked for a food broker that represented a major pet foods brand that placed service dogs all over the world. We attended one of the local events and got to talk to some of the people involved in the selection and training process, and as you stated the costs were very high. Yet they chose to place these service animals on a regular basis, at no cost to the humans getting the help.12 -
I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What I coincidence @33gail33. I was just chatting on another forum about the incredible strides my niece has taken since her mom and dad were able to acquire a service dog for her. She is autistic, and since having the dog she has made incredible progress in being able to interact with family and friends as well as simple daily functions.
Oh, she has also just recently started eating again, the animal is helping her overcome the food rejection common with some autistic folks.
The dog? She's a yellow lab mix. 100% part of the family, loved and treated like gold by everyone, and anyone who knows anything at all about dogs could clearly see the joy she has in going through her routine, hanging tight by my niece and just loving that girl.
It's very much a partnership. So, your post ...well...there is nothing even worth carrying on a conversation about, but it did warrant a reply.
The show Cat From Hell now has a Cat from Heaven segment and one featured a cat who had similarly positive effects on an autistic child. There was also one about a cat who goes to a local library and helps kids who have trouble reading feel more comfortable.
I mean, if we are still on the dogs as employees analogy, I'm going to concede that they are generally going to be better employee types than cats, but I had to plug a couple of cats too!
;-)
There's everything right with a good cat I admit it's difficult to imagine a cat as a service animal/companion, but suffice to say I believe a fair number of humans sorely underestimate the benefit and value our 4 legged friends can add to a life.
We adopted a cat from our neighbours a few years ago before they moved. We already had two other cats at the time.
My daughter struggles with clinical depression and anxiety, as well as some physical issues. From day one, Simon latched onto her as his 'person.' He just knows when she's not having a good day and won't leave her side at those times. There have been lots of times when I know she's having a particularly rough time simply by watching him.
He has the gift of always being able to calm her when she's anxious, and make her smile when her depression flares. He's her silent, non-judgemental therapy companion, and worth a million bucks to us all.
27 -
My encounter with an emotional support dog at the empty gym in my apartment building:
I'm on the treadmill, almost done. A young woman walks in and I hear her walk behind me (the treadmills face the window) to the other side of the gym. Then I smell it--that wet dog smell. I look over to her and she has a yellow lab with her, perfectly well behaved. Dogs are great, but I'm allergic and just not used to being around that dog smell.
I said, 'Hi, is the dog staying?'--not mean or hostile, just a little skeptical as I'd never seen a dog in a gym.
She said, 'Oh, he's an emotional support dog. Is it okay if he stays?"
I said, 'No, that's okay, I'm about done. I'll go.' We were the only two in the gym.
The look on her face as I left was a little heartbreaking, she looked so crushed. Was I the jerk? I didn't pitch a fit, I didn't complain, I just didn't want to work out with that smell. Leaving seemed like the best solution.
Worth noting--I leave the gym for just about any minor annoyance, I don't want to be there enough to power through the annoying guy grunting loudly, or the annoying girl singing along with the music on her headphones, the guy who brings his toddler, etc.
I realize that this was an emotional and not a service dog, but I always wonder would would happen, in practice, if there was someone with a life threatening dog allergy and someone using a service dog in the same room/inclosed space. The ADA says that both parties need to be catered to, but how exactly would that work in some instances?
I'm assuming in the case if airline flights, they airline would be required to rebook a flight (recirculating air and such), but that's just one situation.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe animal allergies are commonly life-threatening. I'm allergic to cats and dogs. My sinuses clog, I sneeze, my eyes water, and my nose runs. It can be miserable, but I'm not going to die. I have asked to be re-located on airplanes if there is a dog or cat nearby. Now, when I'm flying, I take an allergy pill before getting on the plane just as a precaution.18 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What I coincidence @33gail33. I was just chatting on another forum about the incredible strides my niece has taken since her mom and dad were able to acquire a service dog for her. She is autistic, and since having the dog she has made incredible progress in being able to interact with family and friends as well as simple daily functions.
Oh, she has also just recently started eating again, the animal is helping her overcome the food rejection common with some autistic folks.
The dog? She's a yellow lab mix. 100% part of the family, loved and treated like gold by everyone, and anyone who knows anything at all about dogs could clearly see the joy she has in going through her routine, hanging tight by my niece and just loving that girl.
It's very much a partnership. So, your post ...well...there is nothing even worth carrying on a conversation about, but it did warrant a reply.
The show Cat From Hell now has a Cat from Heaven segment and one featured a cat who had similarly positive effects on an autistic child. There was also one about a cat who goes to a local library and helps kids who have trouble reading feel more comfortable.
I mean, if we are still on the dogs as employees analogy, I'm going to concede that they are generally going to be better employee types than cats, but I had to plug a couple of cats too!
;-)
There's everything right with a good cat I admit it's difficult to imagine a cat as a service animal/companion, but suffice to say I believe a fair number of humans sorely underestimate the benefit and value our 4 legged friends can add to a life.
We adopted a cat from our neighbours a few years ago before they moved. We already had two other cats at the time.
My daughter struggles with clinical depression and anxiety, as well as some physical issues. From day one, Simon latched onto her as his 'person.' He just knows when she's not having a good day and won't leave her side at those times. There have been lots of times when I know she's having a particularly rough time simply by watching him.
He has the gift of always being able to calm her when she's anxious, and make her smile when her depression flares. He's her silent, non-judgemental therapy companion, and worth a million bucks to us all.
My dog Jack is one of my rescues. Too bad nobody recognized when he was young that he could've been trained to sniff out diseases.
When my heart goes into svt, he immediately jumps up next to me and puts a paw on my heart. When my anxiety and depression kick in, he sits in my lap, facing me, and does this trick we call circus puppy that always makes me smile. Then he rubs my tears.
I face planted on concrete steps a few weeks ago and banged up my knee replacements badly. I came inside and he immediately went and sniffed my knees, that exhibited no external damage.
He's been my emotional support since I lost my husband to ALS last year. But I don't bring him with me when I go somewhere. I just don't think it would be right to do so.24 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »My encounter with an emotional support dog at the empty gym in my apartment building:
I'm on the treadmill, almost done. A young woman walks in and I hear her walk behind me (the treadmills face the window) to the other side of the gym. Then I smell it--that wet dog smell. I look over to her and she has a yellow lab with her, perfectly well behaved. Dogs are great, but I'm allergic and just not used to being around that dog smell.
I said, 'Hi, is the dog staying?'--not mean or hostile, just a little skeptical as I'd never seen a dog in a gym.
She said, 'Oh, he's an emotional support dog. Is it okay if he stays?"
I said, 'No, that's okay, I'm about done. I'll go.' We were the only two in the gym.
The look on her face as I left was a little heartbreaking, she looked so crushed. Was I the jerk? I didn't pitch a fit, I didn't complain, I just didn't want to work out with that smell. Leaving seemed like the best solution.
Worth noting--I leave the gym for just about any minor annoyance, I don't want to be there enough to power through the annoying guy grunting loudly, or the annoying girl singing along with the music on her headphones, the guy who brings his toddler, etc.
I realize that this was an emotional and not a service dog, but I always wonder would would happen, in practice, if there was someone with a life threatening dog allergy and someone using a service dog in the same room/inclosed space. The ADA says that both parties need to be catered to, but how exactly would that work in some instances?
I'm assuming in the case if airline flights, they airline would be required to rebook a flight (recirculating air and such), but that's just one situation.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe animal allergies are commonly life-threatening. I'm allergic to cats and dogs. My sinuses clog, I sneeze, my eyes water, and my nose runs. It can be miserable, but I'm not going to die. I have asked to be re-located on airplanes if there is a dog or cat nearby. Now, when I'm flying, I take an allergy pill before getting on the plane just as a precaution.
I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct honestly. While not related to fitness, I would expect that accommodations would have to be made for someone with allergies in the context of school (including university study), even if those allergies weren't life threatening. Mind you if there was only one section of the class that was being offered that'd be an, interesting, logistical (and financial) challenge2 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »My encounter with an emotional support dog at the empty gym in my apartment building:
I'm on the treadmill, almost done. A young woman walks in and I hear her walk behind me (the treadmills face the window) to the other side of the gym. Then I smell it--that wet dog smell. I look over to her and she has a yellow lab with her, perfectly well behaved. Dogs are great, but I'm allergic and just not used to being around that dog smell.
I said, 'Hi, is the dog staying?'--not mean or hostile, just a little skeptical as I'd never seen a dog in a gym.
She said, 'Oh, he's an emotional support dog. Is it okay if he stays?"
I said, 'No, that's okay, I'm about done. I'll go.' We were the only two in the gym.
The look on her face as I left was a little heartbreaking, she looked so crushed. Was I the jerk? I didn't pitch a fit, I didn't complain, I just didn't want to work out with that smell. Leaving seemed like the best solution.
Worth noting--I leave the gym for just about any minor annoyance, I don't want to be there enough to power through the annoying guy grunting loudly, or the annoying girl singing along with the music on her headphones, the guy who brings his toddler, etc.
I realize that this was an emotional and not a service dog, but I always wonder would would happen, in practice, if there was someone with a life threatening dog allergy and someone using a service dog in the same room/inclosed space. The ADA says that both parties need to be catered to, but how exactly would that work in some instances?
I'm assuming in the case if airline flights, they airline would be required to rebook a flight (recirculating air and such), but that's just one situation.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe animal allergies are commonly life-threatening. I'm allergic to cats and dogs. My sinuses clog, I sneeze, my eyes water, and my nose runs. It can be miserable, but I'm not going to die. I have asked to be re-located on airplanes if there is a dog or cat nearby. Now, when I'm flying, I take an allergy pill before getting on the plane just as a precaution.
I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct honestly. While not related to fitness, I would expect that accommodations would have to be made for someone with allergies in the context of school (including university study), even if those allergies weren't life threatening. Mind you if there was only one section of the class that was being offered that'd be an, interesting, logistical (and financial) challenge
I haven't yet encountered a situation like that, but I'd imagine that the accommodation would lean towards the person with the service or emotional support animal. I'm guessing the person with the allergy would be seated as far away from the animal as possible and be advised to take allergy medication. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd bet that's how it would play out.3 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What I coincidence @33gail33. I was just chatting on another forum about the incredible strides my niece has taken since her mom and dad were able to acquire a service dog for her. She is autistic, and since having the dog she has made incredible progress in being able to interact with family and friends as well as simple daily functions.
Oh, she has also just recently started eating again, the animal is helping her overcome the food rejection common with some autistic folks.
The dog? She's a yellow lab mix. 100% part of the family, loved and treated like gold by everyone, and anyone who knows anything at all about dogs could clearly see the joy she has in going through her routine, hanging tight by my niece and just loving that girl.
It's very much a partnership. So, your post ...well...there is nothing even worth carrying on a conversation about, but it did warrant a reply.
The show Cat From Hell now has a Cat from Heaven segment and one featured a cat who had similarly positive effects on an autistic child. There was also one about a cat who goes to a local library and helps kids who have trouble reading feel more comfortable.
I mean, if we are still on the dogs as employees analogy, I'm going to concede that they are generally going to be better employee types than cats, but I had to plug a couple of cats too!
;-)
There's everything right with a good cat I admit it's difficult to imagine a cat as a service animal/companion, but suffice to say I believe a fair number of humans sorely underestimate the benefit and value our 4 legged friends can add to a life.
We adopted a cat from our neighbours a few years ago before they moved. We already had two other cats at the time.
My daughter struggles with clinical depression and anxiety, as well as some physical issues. From day one, Simon latched onto her as his 'person.' He just knows when she's not having a good day and won't leave her side at those times. There have been lots of times when I know she's having a particularly rough time simply by watching him.
He has the gift of always being able to calm her when she's anxious, and make her smile when her depression flares. He's her silent, non-judgemental therapy companion, and worth a million bucks to us all.
A good companion tends to be amazing that way. It blows my mind sometimes that some folks can't see a family dog or cat as family. They are, very much so. 13 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »My encounter with an emotional support dog at the empty gym in my apartment building:
I'm on the treadmill, almost done. A young woman walks in and I hear her walk behind me (the treadmills face the window) to the other side of the gym. Then I smell it--that wet dog smell. I look over to her and she has a yellow lab with her, perfectly well behaved. Dogs are great, but I'm allergic and just not used to being around that dog smell.
I said, 'Hi, is the dog staying?'--not mean or hostile, just a little skeptical as I'd never seen a dog in a gym.
She said, 'Oh, he's an emotional support dog. Is it okay if he stays?"
I said, 'No, that's okay, I'm about done. I'll go.' We were the only two in the gym.
The look on her face as I left was a little heartbreaking, she looked so crushed. Was I the jerk? I didn't pitch a fit, I didn't complain, I just didn't want to work out with that smell. Leaving seemed like the best solution.
Worth noting--I leave the gym for just about any minor annoyance, I don't want to be there enough to power through the annoying guy grunting loudly, or the annoying girl singing along with the music on her headphones, the guy who brings his toddler, etc.
I realize that this was an emotional and not a service dog, but I always wonder would would happen, in practice, if there was someone with a life threatening dog allergy and someone using a service dog in the same room/inclosed space. The ADA says that both parties need to be catered to, but how exactly would that work in some instances?
I'm assuming in the case if airline flights, they airline would be required to rebook a flight (recirculating air and such), but that's just one situation.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe animal allergies are commonly life-threatening. I'm allergic to cats and dogs. My sinuses clog, I sneeze, my eyes water, and my nose runs. It can be miserable, but I'm not going to die. I have asked to be re-located on airplanes if there is a dog or cat nearby. Now, when I'm flying, I take an allergy pill before getting on the plane just as a precaution.
I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct honestly. While not related to fitness, I would expect that accommodations would have to be made for someone with allergies in the context of school (including university study), even if those allergies weren't life threatening. Mind you if there was only one section of the class that was being offered that'd be an, interesting, logistical (and financial) challenge
I haven't yet encountered a situation like that, but I'd imagine that the accommodation would lean towards the person with the service or emotional support animal. I'm guessing the person with the allergy would be seated as far away from the animal as possible and be advised to take allergy medication. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd bet that's how it would play out.
After a quick google (which I could have done before posting...), it seems like most colleges/universities in the US deal with it on a case by case basis, which makes sense. The person with allergies needs medical documentation for any accommodation to officially take place. From Cornell's website about service animals on their campus:
Remember that in the context of higher education in the US, institutions also often have to deal with situations regarding housing.If the presence of the service animal is creating an access issue for another resident or student with a disability (e.g., life limiting animal allergies), the handler is expected to work with SDS [student disability services], and any other appropriate University offices as needed, to address the access concerns in a manner that allows both students to be appropriately accommodated.
Further searching brought up a news article from NJ about a then kindergartener with a life threatening allergy to dogs and the issues his family is having with regards to public schools and keeping him relatively safe (which is to say - trying to make sure he doesn't have an anaphylactic reaction).5 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What I coincidence @33gail33. I was just chatting on another forum about the incredible strides my niece has taken since her mom and dad were able to acquire a service dog for her. She is autistic, and since having the dog she has made incredible progress in being able to interact with family and friends as well as simple daily functions.
Oh, she has also just recently started eating again, the animal is helping her overcome the food rejection common with some autistic folks.
The dog? She's a yellow lab mix. 100% part of the family, loved and treated like gold by everyone, and anyone who knows anything at all about dogs could clearly see the joy she has in going through her routine, hanging tight by my niece and just loving that girl.
It's very much a partnership. So, your post ...well...there is nothing even worth carrying on a conversation about, but it did warrant a reply.
The show Cat From Hell now has a Cat from Heaven segment and one featured a cat who had similarly positive effects on an autistic child. There was also one about a cat who goes to a local library and helps kids who have trouble reading feel more comfortable.
I mean, if we are still on the dogs as employees analogy, I'm going to concede that they are generally going to be better employee types than cats, but I had to plug a couple of cats too!
;-)
There's everything right with a good cat I admit it's difficult to imagine a cat as a service animal/companion, but suffice to say I believe a fair number of humans sorely underestimate the benefit and value our 4 legged friends can add to a life.
We adopted a cat from our neighbours a few years ago before they moved. We already had two other cats at the time.
My daughter struggles with clinical depression and anxiety, as well as some physical issues. From day one, Simon latched onto her as his 'person.' He just knows when she's not having a good day and won't leave her side at those times. There have been lots of times when I know she's having a particularly rough time simply by watching him.
He has the gift of always being able to calm her when she's anxious, and make her smile when her depression flares. He's her silent, non-judgemental therapy companion, and worth a million bucks to us all.
A good companion tends to be amazing that way. It blows my mind sometimes that some folks can't see a family dog or cat as family. They are, very much so.
Agree 1000% ❤ my dogs are family.6 -
robertw486 wrote: »bosque1234 wrote: »Disability rights advocate here.
ESAs, (emotional support animals) are not covered under ADA, only Fair Housing Laws. Service animals and guide animals like dogs can be trained to the tune of $30K-$50K and higher in terms of staff/training time to assist all kinds of folks with disabilities such as blind folks, mobility impaired folks, etc. Remember, a highly trained animal provides a legal, sometimes life saving service for the human it serves. It is a very expensive 'assistive device.'
By law written in ADA all anyone can ask the person with the animal is (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? That's IT. We have all seen very poorly trained if trained at all, 'pets' like the one in the gym. This is breaking laws. This makes it much harder for folks with real disabilities and REAL service animals to access public space and programs. FAKES ruin it.
You can legally attempt to get your ESA approved by landlords/etc to stay with you in housing, but that's that's the only real place they are hands down accepted. Idiots, quite frankly, have ruined airline travel for many people by claiming their pig, peacock, untrained pit bull, etc is an ESA and have gotten kicked off or had the animal create havoc on a flight. This makes it very hard for people with disabilities to fly.
A gym is not supposed to allow ESAs by law into the facility. Asking the person the two questions above could be a way to establish that the pet needs to go, ESPECIALLY a poorly trained animal which is always obvious due to their haphazard activity. Of course people will lie in their answers. But the best way to tell if an animal is a trained service animal is how the animal behaves and how the person interacts with it.
Quietly, with quick commands, the animal is not distracted, doesn't wag it's tail all over the place and drool, hunt for food, isn't looking for attention, is focused on it's person and stays very close to it's person. The animal should not smell, be messy or dirty, should not be aggressive, not bark, and not pee or otherwise, ever, inside in a building.
This why you do NOT go up to a service animal and pet it. You ask the person with it about this or just please, ignore the animal and allow the disabled person some much needed time for their outing/workout/grocery shopping trip, etc.
That is the real way the ADA works.
Remember *why* these service animal laws were created, they are a civil rights law for equality and inclusion, NOT so you can bring your irresponsible, yappy Chihuahua to the gym.
Very well explained.
Anyone that has ever been around a real service animal will see the vast difference in their behavior compared to (most) ESA's. I know in many cases the animals are matched to the human they will assist, and not trained until found suitable for that specific person and their assistance needs. Personality traits, physical demands, size and agility, etc were all part of the process. But all that I have ever seen are extremely efficient at the assistance they provide, and seem to love doing it. A vet I am acquaintance with has a PTSD service dog, and their bond is like a parent and child.
I worked for a food broker that represented a major pet foods brand that placed service dogs all over the world. We attended one of the local events and got to talk to some of the people involved in the selection and training process, and as you stated the costs were very high. Yet they chose to place these service animals on a regular basis, at no cost to the humans getting the help.
Which is the parent and which is the child?5 -
Emotional support dogs are not covered under medical support animals laws, so in non-sensitive environments like a gym it is up to the business to decide whether or not the dog may be permitted on the premises. With that said, the woman violated health and safety regulations by allowing the dog to drink from the fountain (not even medical support animals are allowed to do this) and she is placing the gym at legal risk by doing so. Definitely contact management because the dog’s behavior is inappropriate, unsafe, and allowing it to act that way only fuels stigma against legitimate support animals.10
-
lynn_glenmont wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »bosque1234 wrote: »Disability rights advocate here.
ESAs, (emotional support animals) are not covered under ADA, only Fair Housing Laws. Service animals and guide animals like dogs can be trained to the tune of $30K-$50K and higher in terms of staff/training time to assist all kinds of folks with disabilities such as blind folks, mobility impaired folks, etc. Remember, a highly trained animal provides a legal, sometimes life saving service for the human it serves. It is a very expensive 'assistive device.'
By law written in ADA all anyone can ask the person with the animal is (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? That's IT. We have all seen very poorly trained if trained at all, 'pets' like the one in the gym. This is breaking laws. This makes it much harder for folks with real disabilities and REAL service animals to access public space and programs. FAKES ruin it.
You can legally attempt to get your ESA approved by landlords/etc to stay with you in housing, but that's that's the only real place they are hands down accepted. Idiots, quite frankly, have ruined airline travel for many people by claiming their pig, peacock, untrained pit bull, etc is an ESA and have gotten kicked off or had the animal create havoc on a flight. This makes it very hard for people with disabilities to fly.
A gym is not supposed to allow ESAs by law into the facility. Asking the person the two questions above could be a way to establish that the pet needs to go, ESPECIALLY a poorly trained animal which is always obvious due to their haphazard activity. Of course people will lie in their answers. But the best way to tell if an animal is a trained service animal is how the animal behaves and how the person interacts with it.
Quietly, with quick commands, the animal is not distracted, doesn't wag it's tail all over the place and drool, hunt for food, isn't looking for attention, is focused on it's person and stays very close to it's person. The animal should not smell, be messy or dirty, should not be aggressive, not bark, and not pee or otherwise, ever, inside in a building.
This why you do NOT go up to a service animal and pet it. You ask the person with it about this or just please, ignore the animal and allow the disabled person some much needed time for their outing/workout/grocery shopping trip, etc.
That is the real way the ADA works.
Remember *why* these service animal laws were created, they are a civil rights law for equality and inclusion, NOT so you can bring your irresponsible, yappy Chihuahua to the gym.
Very well explained.
Anyone that has ever been around a real service animal will see the vast difference in their behavior compared to (most) ESA's. I know in many cases the animals are matched to the human they will assist, and not trained until found suitable for that specific person and their assistance needs. Personality traits, physical demands, size and agility, etc were all part of the process. But all that I have ever seen are extremely efficient at the assistance they provide, and seem to love doing it. A vet I am acquaintance with has a PTSD service dog, and their bond is like a parent and child.
I worked for a food broker that represented a major pet foods brand that placed service dogs all over the world. We attended one of the local events and got to talk to some of the people involved in the selection and training process, and as you stated the costs were very high. Yet they chose to place these service animals on a regular basis, at no cost to the humans getting the help.
Which is the parent and which is the child?
I'm actually glad you asked that. I second guessed myself for stating it so briefly the first time, but didn't want to take up so much space that it turned into a TL:DR post.
But in most environments I have witnessed the dog is definitely the parent. It is vigilant in protecting the human, and they have various levels of alerts that the dog uses when he identifies anything the veteran might perceive as a threat, or otherwise cause him anxiety. This includes keeping an eye on all other humans and animals in the area, only changed when the human identifies them as "friendly" to the dog. The man will usually ask people if he can approach and shake their hand, then identifies them verbally as "friendly" to the dog. His closest and most trusted inner circle friends/doctors/etc are hugged (man hugged) and identified as "very friendly". This lets the dog know when it can relax the alerts for people in the immediate vicinity that have been identified. However if any person not identified through this method comes into the area, the dog is more alert to them immediately.
If in a controlled environment with only people identified as "friendly" or "very friendly" the roles reverse. He dog becomes like a playful little pup seeking love and affection from the human. His focus is still primarily on the owner, but he will play with toys, run around some, and interact in a closer to usual human/pet relationship. And this continues unless the owner moves out of that environment, or someone not properly identified enters it.
Though I haven't witnessed it myself, they also have communication for "safe spaces" when they are locked in their home, or areas with controlled entry. In these places the dog will just be a dog, still maybe alert to the usual things, but will chill out, take a nap... dog things.
I met this man before he had his dog when we were both dealing with some PTSD issues. He was dealing with severe and lengthy combat related trauma and had a very small world of people he would even speak with, usually even then only in controlled environments. Going outside any of those environments would cause him very real and intense anxiety.
The first time I saw him with his dog was by chance, and if not for the physical appearance I would never have known it was the same person. The impact this service animal has had on him is profound.18 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »My encounter with an emotional support dog at the empty gym in my apartment building:
I'm on the treadmill, almost done. A young woman walks in and I hear her walk behind me (the treadmills face the window) to the other side of the gym. Then I smell it--that wet dog smell. I look over to her and she has a yellow lab with her, perfectly well behaved. Dogs are great, but I'm allergic and just not used to being around that dog smell.
I said, 'Hi, is the dog staying?'--not mean or hostile, just a little skeptical as I'd never seen a dog in a gym.
She said, 'Oh, he's an emotional support dog. Is it okay if he stays?"
I said, 'No, that's okay, I'm about done. I'll go.' We were the only two in the gym.
The look on her face as I left was a little heartbreaking, she looked so crushed. Was I the jerk? I didn't pitch a fit, I didn't complain, I just didn't want to work out with that smell. Leaving seemed like the best solution.
Worth noting--I leave the gym for just about any minor annoyance, I don't want to be there enough to power through the annoying guy grunting loudly, or the annoying girl singing along with the music on her headphones, the guy who brings his toddler, etc.
I realize that this was an emotional and not a service dog, but I always wonder would would happen, in practice, if there was someone with a life threatening dog allergy and someone using a service dog in the same room/inclosed space. The ADA says that both parties need to be catered to, but how exactly would that work in some instances?
I'm assuming in the case if airline flights, they airline would be required to rebook a flight (recirculating air and such), but that's just one situation.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe animal allergies are commonly life-threatening. I'm allergic to cats and dogs. My sinuses clog, I sneeze, my eyes water, and my nose runs. It can be miserable, but I'm not going to die. I have asked to be re-located on airplanes if there is a dog or cat nearby. Now, when I'm flying, I take an allergy pill before getting on the plane just as a precaution.
I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct honestly. While not related to fitness, I would expect that accommodations would have to be made for someone with allergies in the context of school (including university study), even if those allergies weren't life threatening. Mind you if there was only one section of the class that was being offered that'd be an, interesting, logistical (and financial) challenge
people can have severe reactions where their air passages swell making it difficult to breathe.1 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »They do have a legal obligation to back up their claim. That said, the gym also has a strong incentive not to force them to back up the claim because that can easily be viewed as discrimination and a litigious person can get an almost guaranteed win under ADA law in most places.
The people who abuse the service animal programs really ruin it for those that actually have need of a support animal.
Depends on where you are, I guess. In my state, you can't challenge them and only ask very specific questions to confirm.
Here too, I work in a hair salon and it used to be no animals period but certified service dogs were the exception,now they've changed it so we're not even allowed to ask,just assume it's a service animal 🤷0 -
robertw486 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »bosque1234 wrote: »Disability rights advocate here.
ESAs, (emotional support animals) are not covered under ADA, only Fair Housing Laws. Service animals and guide animals like dogs can be trained to the tune of $30K-$50K and higher in terms of staff/training time to assist all kinds of folks with disabilities such as blind folks, mobility impaired folks, etc. Remember, a highly trained animal provides a legal, sometimes life saving service for the human it serves. It is a very expensive 'assistive device.'
By law written in ADA all anyone can ask the person with the animal is (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? That's IT. We have all seen very poorly trained if trained at all, 'pets' like the one in the gym. This is breaking laws. This makes it much harder for folks with real disabilities and REAL service animals to access public space and programs. FAKES ruin it.
You can legally attempt to get your ESA approved by landlords/etc to stay with you in housing, but that's that's the only real place they are hands down accepted. Idiots, quite frankly, have ruined airline travel for many people by claiming their pig, peacock, untrained pit bull, etc is an ESA and have gotten kicked off or had the animal create havoc on a flight. This makes it very hard for people with disabilities to fly.
A gym is not supposed to allow ESAs by law into the facility. Asking the person the two questions above could be a way to establish that the pet needs to go, ESPECIALLY a poorly trained animal which is always obvious due to their haphazard activity. Of course people will lie in their answers. But the best way to tell if an animal is a trained service animal is how the animal behaves and how the person interacts with it.
Quietly, with quick commands, the animal is not distracted, doesn't wag it's tail all over the place and drool, hunt for food, isn't looking for attention, is focused on it's person and stays very close to it's person. The animal should not smell, be messy or dirty, should not be aggressive, not bark, and not pee or otherwise, ever, inside in a building.
This why you do NOT go up to a service animal and pet it. You ask the person with it about this or just please, ignore the animal and allow the disabled person some much needed time for their outing/workout/grocery shopping trip, etc.
That is the real way the ADA works.
Remember *why* these service animal laws were created, they are a civil rights law for equality and inclusion, NOT so you can bring your irresponsible, yappy Chihuahua to the gym.
Very well explained.
Anyone that has ever been around a real service animal will see the vast difference in their behavior compared to (most) ESA's. I know in many cases the animals are matched to the human they will assist, and not trained until found suitable for that specific person and their assistance needs. Personality traits, physical demands, size and agility, etc were all part of the process. But all that I have ever seen are extremely efficient at the assistance they provide, and seem to love doing it. A vet I am acquaintance with has a PTSD service dog, and their bond is like a parent and child.
I worked for a food broker that represented a major pet foods brand that placed service dogs all over the world. We attended one of the local events and got to talk to some of the people involved in the selection and training process, and as you stated the costs were very high. Yet they chose to place these service animals on a regular basis, at no cost to the humans getting the help.
Which is the parent and which is the child?
I'm actually glad you asked that. I second guessed myself for stating it so briefly the first time, but didn't want to take up so much space that it turned into a TL:DR post.
But in most environments I have witnessed the dog is definitely the parent. It is vigilant in protecting the human, and they have various levels of alerts that the dog uses when he identifies anything the veteran might perceive as a threat, or otherwise cause him anxiety. This includes keeping an eye on all other humans and animals in the area, only changed when the human identifies them as "friendly" to the dog. The man will usually ask people if he can approach and shake their hand, then identifies them verbally as "friendly" to the dog. His closest and most trusted inner circle friends/doctors/etc are hugged (man hugged) and identified as "very friendly". This lets the dog know when it can relax the alerts for people in the immediate vicinity that have been identified. However if any person not identified through this method comes into the area, the dog is more alert to them immediately.
If in a controlled environment with only people identified as "friendly" or "very friendly" the roles reverse. He dog becomes like a playful little pup seeking love and affection from the human. His focus is still primarily on the owner, but he will play with toys, run around some, and interact in a closer to usual human/pet relationship. And this continues unless the owner moves out of that environment, or someone not properly identified enters it.
Though I haven't witnessed it myself, they also have communication for "safe spaces" when they are locked in their home, or areas with controlled entry. In these places the dog will just be a dog, still maybe alert to the usual things, but will chill out, take a nap... dog things.
I met this man before he had his dog when we were both dealing with some PTSD issues. He was dealing with severe and lengthy combat related trauma and had a very small world of people he would even speak with, usually even then only in controlled environments. Going outside any of those environments would cause him very real and intense anxiety.
The first time I saw him with his dog was by chance, and if not for the physical appearance I would never have known it was the same person. The impact this service animal has had on him is profound.
There's a charity here in the UK that matches PTSD survivors with rescue dogs, recognising that is a symbiotic relationship between the two. That's much more in the emotional support space than assistance dog as you describe.2 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »I actually don't believe in service dogs from an ethical standpoint. I just don't think any sentient being should be conscripted to a lifetime of 24/7 servitude.
What I coincidence @33gail33. I was just chatting on another forum about the incredible strides my niece has taken since her mom and dad were able to acquire a service dog for her. She is autistic, and since having the dog she has made incredible progress in being able to interact with family and friends as well as simple daily functions.
Oh, she has also just recently started eating again, the animal is helping her overcome the food rejection common with some autistic folks.
The dog? She's a yellow lab mix. 100% part of the family, loved and treated like gold by everyone, and anyone who knows anything at all about dogs could clearly see the joy she has in going through her routine, hanging tight by my niece and just loving that girl.
It's very much a partnership. So, your post ...well...there is nothing even worth carrying on a conversation about, but it did warrant a reply.
The show Cat From Hell now has a Cat from Heaven segment and one featured a cat who had similarly positive effects on an autistic child. There was also one about a cat who goes to a local library and helps kids who have trouble reading feel more comfortable.
I mean, if we are still on the dogs as employees analogy, I'm going to concede that they are generally going to be better employee types than cats, but I had to plug a couple of cats too!
;-)
There's everything right with a good cat I admit it's difficult to imagine a cat as a service animal/companion, but suffice to say I believe a fair number of humans sorely underestimate the benefit and value our 4 legged friends can add to a life.
We adopted a cat from our neighbours a few years ago before they moved. We already had two other cats at the time.
My daughter struggles with clinical depression and anxiety, as well as some physical issues. From day one, Simon latched onto her as his 'person.' He just knows when she's not having a good day and won't leave her side at those times. There have been lots of times when I know she's having a particularly rough time simply by watching him.
He has the gift of always being able to calm her when she's anxious, and make her smile when her depression flares. He's her silent, non-judgemental therapy companion, and worth a million bucks to us all.
A good companion tends to be amazing that way. It blows my mind sometimes that some folks can't see a family dog or cat as family. They are, very much so.
I know this won't be a popular opinion....I'm sorry in advance for those I'll offend.
I have absolutely no problem with you feeling that way about your dog. I do have a problem if you expect everyone else to feel the same way about your pet. Believe it or not, there are people that do not like dogs, are afraid of dogs, or just do not want to be around them.
I don't believe they should have all the "rights" of a human member of your family, and that means respecting the rules of public places. To be clear, I'm not saying that you personally do this, but there seems to be a huge uptick in people bringing their dogs to stores, restaurants, etc. and expecting that this is no problem for everyone. I also see more and more people ignoring leash laws in public parks. It's really an issue of respect for your fellow humans.21 -
@SuzySunshine99
Dogs are my spirit animal. I've been involved in dog rescue for over 30 years. I love all dogs, not just my own. I call them my furkids but don't anthropomorphize them.
I appreciate that everyone else might have a different mindset. I bring my dogs with me to run errands or to someone's house when they've been invited and not by my asking if they can come.
I recently saw a man at the deli counter while I was grocery shopping and he had his dog in his cart. I was shocked and highly offended. The next person to use that cart won't know they're putting their groceries where a dog's butt was.
So, even for me, there was nothing offensive about your post. Dog owners do need to obey leash laws and be courteous to the rights of others.
Oh, wait a sec.... my dogs say hi! 👋18
This discussion has been closed.
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