Shortage of Broccoli!
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kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »
I was kind of joking. I've read and enjoyed some of Kingsolver's fiction, but not that book, and I didn't actually know what it was about until now. I might well read it.
But I did read this book when it came out: https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-307-34732-9
Plenty: One Man, One Woman, and a Raucous Year of Eating Locally
It's about a couple in British Columbia who decide to eat only locally for a year.
I was kind of obsessed with the idea (because I am obsessive) for a while, and considered becoming a locavore (with exceptions for occasional restaurant meals, since it's part of my social life), but then when I thought it through I realized that it would be unworkable and, besides, I love coffee and avocados and oranges and fresh veg in January, etc.
Of course, I don't live on a farm, but in the middle of Chicago, and I have no idea how to can anything, although it's something I want to someday learn. ;-)
Wouldn't be any rational or ethical reason for me to eat all local, though (in this climate it would mean more meat, for example), and it would be less healthy and pointlessly difficult. I think my draw to do it completely was more about it seeming like a challenge and that I do have an unhealthy if something is good, going completely overboard in an extreme way must be better mindset at times.
I heard about the BC couple's book and it's on my back-burner to-read list.
It would sure be easier to be a locavore in Appalachian farm country than BC.
My aunt is in North Carolina and her harvest starts way earlier than mine do outside Boston.
Yes, absolutely. The people in BC started without much pre-planning, which was interesting too. I think at one point they drove into WA where they found some options they didn't have back home, but then of course Canada doesn't want you bringing certain kinds of food over the border. (Nor the US -- I've told this story before, but it always used to seem to demonstrate the different worries of the countries or national stereotypes as when I crossed over to Ontario from MI they'd ask if I had guns or cigarettes. When I came back they'd ask if I had fruit.)
I'm partly intrigued by these things since my family (like most people's) were farmers until very recently. My mom grew up on a farm in Central WA, and my dad's grandparents (both sides) were farmers in IA.
I was on a bus tour today relating to the I&M Canal, and one of the things we did was go to a local museum in Seneca, IL, as well as checking out the grain elevator. One of the people at the museum teaches agriculture at the high school (it's a farming area), and he was talking about how these days only something like 1.8% of people are in farming. Most of the farming there is corn/soybeans, although some have family farms still (and it's a terrible year this year in IL, of course). But farming for transporting long distances has been a thing in the area (and farther west) since the Canal opened in the 1840s and then since railroads came in. And of course the reaper came into widespread use in the 1840s too, which made grain-growing a lot more efficient than it had been.3 -
BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »lesdarts180 wrote: »I do, of course, use all sorts of salad veg and my cupboards and fridge are full of veggies. My children tease me that there's nothing but fruit and veg in the house. I'm not vegetarian but I do max out on veg. This was really just meant to be a light-hearted discussion of alternatives given the current shortage of two of my favourites.
@BarbaraHelen2013 ,I'm trying not to think about Brexit and what may happen after October 31st.
I’m pretty sure normal daily life will carry on as usual! There may be the odd blip as supply chains are readjusted but honestly, all the ‘end of the world’ hype that certain media outlets love to generate is just that...baseless hype designed to get the hard of thinking in panic mode because that gives them more stories to sensationalise!
I have every faith that there will still be abundant food and resources available. The very worst that might happen is that we have to adjust our buying habits temporarily to encompass fresh, local seasonal produce more than expensive hot house imports. But I’m one who thinks that’s not actually a worst case scenario, anyway!
Actually...the most likely thing will be shortage of loo roll, because that’s what people always hoard in times of uncertainty in Britain! 😂🤷♀️
Do you think that we produce enough of that for everyone, in late October / early November?
If you produce enough leafy greens and seasonal summer veggies in July-August-September, I don't know why you wouldn't produce enough seasonal cruciferous, winter squash, and root veggies that are seasonal in fall? My sense is that the latter typically yields more calories-per-square-foot than leafy greens, salad veg like cukes, tomatoes, bell peppers, aubergines, courgettes, asparagus, etc. that grow in warmer weather. Maybe peas and fresh beans are on a par with fall veg in term of yields.1 -
It is all about mindset. Instead of seeing this as a woe, see it as a blessing. You can now try other vegetables. It is healthier to eat a variety of foods. Broccoli and cauliflower are great, but so are carrots, asparagus, Brussels sprouts, kale, green beans, peppers, and cabbage!2
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just_Tomek wrote: »lesdarts180 wrote: »
How come shopping is such an ethical minefield?
You mean personal ethics. I do my best to support local growers but I consider it a preference not a matter of ethics.
Same here.
And the same here. Reading this thread, I can't help but think if something like where your broccoli is grown is one of the biggest problems you face today, you are a very fortunate person.
So very much this ^^^
First world problems. In addition to.... help there is too much food around.
This is using the phrase "first-world problems" in essentially the opposite way to what it was originally intended to mean -- to absolve first-worlders from thinking about the disproportionate impact of their choices, decisions, and lifestyles on the global economy and environment, because people in developing and underdeveloped nations don't have the luxury of thinking about those issues and even if they did, in many cases their economic and environmental footprint is so much smaller than that of someone living in the first world that whatever choices they have the luxury of making would have next to no impact, even when aggregated across their entire community or nation.
First-world problems are deciding whether to add a premium channel to one's cable package, not trying to figure out which decisions will, to the extent possible, reduce one's disproportionate usage of the world's resources and disproportionate carbon footprint.4 -
Get another vegetable and take an extra walk if you dont like few extra cals? Don't you think you are overdoing things when you are talking about 'low calorie' veggie by the way? Bulk of vegetables hardly contain calories in the first place!1
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Really? I live in Somerset as well. Tesco's still have the veg.0
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »lesdarts180 wrote: »
How come shopping is such an ethical minefield?
You mean personal ethics. I do my best to support local growers but I consider it a preference not a matter of ethics.
Same here.
And the same here. Reading this thread, I can't help but think if something like where your broccoli is grown is one of the biggest problems you face today, you are a very fortunate person.
So very much this ^^^
First world problems. In addition to.... help there is too much food around.
This is using the phrase "first-world problems" in essentially the opposite way to what it was originally intended to mean -- to absolve first-worlders from thinking about the disproportionate impact of their choices, decisions, and lifestyles on the global economy and environment, because people in developing and underdeveloped nations don't have the luxury of thinking about those issues and even if they did, in many cases their economic and environmental footprint is so much smaller than that of someone living in the first world that whatever choices they have the luxury of making would have next to no impact, even when aggregated across their entire community or nation.
First-world problems are deciding whether to add a premium channel to one's cable package, not trying to figure out which decisions will, to the extent possible, reduce one's disproportionate usage of the world's resources and disproportionate carbon footprint.
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kshama2001 wrote: »
I was kind of joking. I've read and enjoyed some of Kingsolver's fiction, but not that book, and I didn't actually know what it was about until now. I might well read it.
But I did read this book when it came out: https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-307-34732-9
Plenty: One Man, One Woman, and a Raucous Year of Eating Locally
It's about a couple in British Columbia who decide to eat only locally for a year.
I was kind of obsessed with the idea (because I am obsessive) for a while, and considered becoming a locavore (with exceptions for occasional restaurant meals, since it's part of my social life), but then when I thought it through I realized that it would be unworkable and, besides, I love coffee and avocados and oranges and fresh veg in January, etc.
Of course, I don't live on a farm, but in the middle of Chicago, and I have no idea how to can anything, although it's something I want to someday learn. ;-)
Wouldn't be any rational or ethical reason for me to eat all local, though (in this climate it would mean more meat, for example), and it would be less healthy and pointlessly difficult. I think my draw to do it completely was more about it seeming like a challenge and that I do have an unhealthy if something is good, going completely overboard in an extreme way must be better mindset at times.
ohhh that book sounds good - i may need to see if i can find it1 -
Re the claim that local is always more ethical/healthy, that's not necessarily the case (and presumably those of us in cold climates eat non locally much of the year and for some products, like avocados):
https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2012/09/04/how-green-is-local-food/
"Local food proponents often claim that food grown close to home helps prevent global warming because it requires less fossil fuels to transport, generating fewer greenhouse gas emissions than conventionally produced food. But just how green is local food?...
But the impacts of food on climate depend not only on the distance it travels but how, and more importantly, on what happens before it ever gets delivered.
A 2008 study examined life cycle greenhouse gas emissions of food production as compared to food miles, how far food travels to market. The study, which analyzed the production, transportation and distribution of food in the United States, found that transportation accounts for only 11 percent of food’s greenhouse gas emissions, with the final delivery segment from producer to market responsible for a mere 4 percent. Moreover, transportation related emissions vary according to how food is transported; for example, rail and water transport are much more energy efficient than air or truck transport....
The majority of food’ s climate impact is due to non-CO2 greenhouse gas emissions such as nitrous oxide and methane emissions. Nitrous oxide emissions (298 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2) arise from nitrogen fertilizer and certain techniques for soil and manure management. Methane emissions (25 times more potent than CO2) are a result of the digestive process of ruminants like cows and sheep, and manure management. Meat and dairy production are also responsible for emissions from the growing of grain to feed the cows. The life cycle study found that red meat accounts for about 150 percent more greenhouse gas emissions than chicken or fish.
So while buying local food could reduce the average consumer’s greenhouse gas emissions by 4-5 percent at best, substituting part of one day a week’s worth of calories from red meat and dairy products with chicken, fish, eggs, or vegetables achieves more greenhouse gas reduction than switching to a diet based entirely on locally produced food (which would be impossible anyway). Eating foods that are in season and eating organic and less processed foods can further reduce one’s greenhouse gas emissions...."
I don't think I've done enough research on this to have a firm opinion, but I think insisting that local is always and in all cases inherently better and that there aren't many other considerations is false.4 -
That said, if one wants to eat local in the UK, this is the time of year to do it, and it shouldn't rely on broccoli and cauliflower.3
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lesdarts180 wrote: »
How come shopping is such an ethical minefield?
You mean personal ethics. I do my best to support local growers but I consider it a preference not a matter of ethics.
I adore living in a global economy and think the free market is the solution to most of our problems. I get fresh oranges in the middle of winter because they fly them up from Brazil. I can have bananas any time I want because we get so many from Central America. And while local growers are worthy of support when I can give it, the farmers living in Mexico, South and Central America, and Australia from whom I often buy produce are worthy of support as well. (Thanks to origin stickers on my produce, I have the privilege of knowing I am supporting families from all over the world.) They all have families to feed and I am grateful for their labor.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »lesdarts180 wrote: »I do, of course, use all sorts of salad veg and my cupboards and fridge are full of veggies. My children tease me that there's nothing but fruit and veg in the house. I'm not vegetarian but I do max out on veg. This was really just meant to be a light-hearted discussion of alternatives given the current shortage of two of my favourites.
@BarbaraHelen2013 ,I'm trying not to think about Brexit and what may happen after October 31st.
I’m pretty sure normal daily life will carry on as usual! There may be the odd blip as supply chains are readjusted but honestly, all the ‘end of the world’ hype that certain media outlets love to generate is just that...baseless hype designed to get the hard of thinking in panic mode because that gives them more stories to sensationalise!
I have every faith that there will still be abundant food and resources available. The very worst that might happen is that we have to adjust our buying habits temporarily to encompass fresh, local seasonal produce more than expensive hot house imports. But I’m one who thinks that’s not actually a worst case scenario, anyway!
Actually...the most likely thing will be shortage of loo roll, because that’s what people always hoard in times of uncertainty in Britain! 😂🤷♀️
Do you think that we produce enough of that for everyone, in late October / early November?
If you produce enough leafy greens and seasonal summer veggies in July-August-September, I don't know why you wouldn't produce enough seasonal cruciferous, winter squash, and root veggies that are seasonal in fall? My sense is that the latter typically yields more calories-per-square-foot than leafy greens, salad veg like cukes, tomatoes, bell peppers, aubergines, courgettes, asparagus, etc. that grow in warmer weather. Maybe peas and fresh beans are on a par with fall veg in term of yields.
But my understanding is that we don’t. The UK fundamentally relies on food imports.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »lesdarts180 wrote: »I do, of course, use all sorts of salad veg and my cupboards and fridge are full of veggies. My children tease me that there's nothing but fruit and veg in the house. I'm not vegetarian but I do max out on veg. This was really just meant to be a light-hearted discussion of alternatives given the current shortage of two of my favourites.
@BarbaraHelen2013 ,I'm trying not to think about Brexit and what may happen after October 31st.
I’m pretty sure normal daily life will carry on as usual! There may be the odd blip as supply chains are readjusted but honestly, all the ‘end of the world’ hype that certain media outlets love to generate is just that...baseless hype designed to get the hard of thinking in panic mode because that gives them more stories to sensationalise!
I have every faith that there will still be abundant food and resources available. The very worst that might happen is that we have to adjust our buying habits temporarily to encompass fresh, local seasonal produce more than expensive hot house imports. But I’m one who thinks that’s not actually a worst case scenario, anyway!
Actually...the most likely thing will be shortage of loo roll, because that’s what people always hoard in times of uncertainty in Britain! 😂🤷♀️
Do you think that we produce enough of that for everyone, in late October / early November?
If you produce enough leafy greens and seasonal summer veggies in July-August-September, I don't know why you wouldn't produce enough seasonal cruciferous, winter squash, and root veggies that are seasonal in fall? My sense is that the latter typically yields more calories-per-square-foot than leafy greens, salad veg like cukes, tomatoes, bell peppers, aubergines, courgettes, asparagus, etc. that grow in warmer weather. Maybe peas and fresh beans are on a par with fall veg in term of yields.
But my understanding is that we don’t. The UK fundamentally relies on food imports.
OK, sorry. I read your earlier postDo you think that we produce enough of that for everyone, in late October / early November?
as suggesting that late October/early November presented a greater problem for produce self-reliance than the earlier growing season.
So I've learned two new things (at least) from this thread. The UK fundamentally relies on food imports and Brits call toilet paper "loo roll." (BTW, loo roll, milk, and bread are what people hoard in times of uncertainty in the States.*)
*ETA ... Loo roll, milk, and bread are hoarded before snow storms in my neck of the woods. For hurricanes, people mostly hoard water and batteries. And probably loo roll, too.2 -
So what should we be hoarding for a no Brexit in October? I haven't read the entire thread so sorry if this topic has already been covered.0
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apologies for typo no deal Brexit0
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So what should we be hoarding for a no Brexit in October? I haven't read the entire thread so sorry if this topic has already been covered.
In my opinion...nothing at all.
Hoarding usually is what causes a shortage. Irresponsible hacks who work for the tabloids (and increasingly the broadsheets) engender panic, the public react, panic spreads and spare bedrooms across the country are filled with items that belong on grocery store shelves until such time as they’re actually needed.
I’m happy to put my faith in the people whose job it is to figure out the logistics of keeping the supply chain going around the country. I’m patient and adaptable enough to weather a few blips while it all settles down.
I could be wrong and I’ll starve to death, of course! 😱💀😂3 -
BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »Hoarding usually is what causes a shortage. Irresponsible hacks who work for the tabloids (and increasingly the broadsheets) engender panic, the public react, panic spreads and spare bedrooms across the country are filled with items that belong on grocery store shelves until such time as they’re actually needed.
Thank you!
I have an acquaintance who is literally prepping for the end of the world right now, and even has a plan in place to rescue her mother when the riots start. This is all seriously affecting her mental health.
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BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »So what should we be hoarding for a no Brexit in October? I haven't read the entire thread so sorry if this topic has already been covered.
In my opinion...nothing at all.
Hoarding usually is what causes a shortage. Irresponsible hacks who work for the tabloids (and increasingly the broadsheets) engender panic, the public react, panic spreads and spare bedrooms across the country are filled with items that belong on grocery store shelves until such time as they’re actually needed.
I’m happy to put my faith in the people whose job it is to figure out the logistics of keeping the supply chain going around the country. I’m patient and adaptable enough to weather a few blips while it all settles down.
I could be wrong and I’ll starve to death, of course! 😱💀😂
Very much this. There is no point in stockpiling it really does cause the shortages. Whatever happens regarding the food there will always be other food you can eat. People are panicking about something that might not happen. And anyway is it really then end of the world if you can't get your fix of Brie for a few weeks?
On the other hand there could be a killing to be made in black market Parma Ham or some such items.
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The supermarkets are already hoarding the things that are gonna be hoardable - such as loo roll! - to make sure that any disruption doesn't affect them.
They gave warning about fresh produce back before the first Brexit deadline, though. Things may be better in October - since that is, as has been pointed out, at least a time when the UK has its own fresh produce available - but if it's a no-deal, there may still be some shortages.1 -
Good news - the Co-op had broccoli from Cornwall in this morning. (but still no cauli)
I'm doing nothing about Brexit - I can't bear to read about it and I try not to think about it. There's nothing us ordinary folk can do about it and I won't stockpile anything other than my usual supply of tins and frozen food.
Perhaps I'll also starve to death -like @BarbaraHelen2013 ?
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lesdarts180 wrote: »Good news - the Co-op had broccoli from Cornwall in this morning. (but still no cauli)
I'm doing nothing about Brexit - I can't bear to read about it and I try not to think about it. There's nothing us ordinary folk can do about it and I won't stockpile anything other than my usual supply of tins and frozen food.
Perhaps I'll also starve to death -like @BarbaraHelen2013 ?
Help me understand this. Does this mean that importing goods that the UK doesn’t produce will be cut off entirely? Seriously doubtful. Temporary shortages? Possibly and probably likely. Price increases? Most assuredly. Temporary inconveniences that will improve.2 -
missysippy930 wrote: »Help me understand this. Does this mean that importing goods that the UK doesn’t produce will be cut off entirely? Seriously doubtful. Temporary shortages? Possibly and probably likely. Price increases? Most assuredly.
because of our governments inability to sort out a deal if we leave without an agreement in place there will be disruption between our border and the EU. No-one knows exactly to what extent yet. It may be that fresh produce is disrupted to the point it is past it's best when it reaches the shelves.
One thing that has been overlooked by many is that our existing trade agreements outside of the EU are mostly based on us being part OF the EU, therefore will need re-negotiation. This may mean we have to temporarily use the WTO agreements and tariffs. This is not generally a good thing.
Frankly, I normally buy most of my stuff from local farms already. I just guess I'll have to be up pretty early to get what I want once other people figure out where to get their food from.
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My favorite seasonally, are eggplant, zucchini, yellow squash, bellpeppers, tomatoes - made a wonderful ratatouilles. Also root veggies roasted, fennel, turnips, parsnips, beets, onions- make once a week, save both dishes in refrigerator and eat for lunch and breakfast with choice of protein.1
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sytchequeen wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Help me understand this. Does this mean that importing goods that the UK doesn’t produce will be cut off entirely? Seriously doubtful. Temporary shortages? Possibly and probably likely. Price increases? Most assuredly.
because of our governments inability to sort out a deal if we leave without an agreement in place there will be disruption between our border and the EU. No-one knows exactly to what extent yet. It may be that fresh produce is disrupted to the point it is past it's best when it reaches the shelves.
One thing that has been overlooked by many is that our existing trade agreements outside of the EU are mostly based on us being part OF the EU, therefore will need re-negotiation. This may mean we have to temporarily use the WTO agreements and tariffs. This is not generally a good thing.
Frankly, I normally buy most of my stuff from local farms already. I just guess I'll have to be up pretty early to get what I want once other people figure out where to get their food from.
It was voted in by the the citizens to leave the EU, correct? It’s been delayed from starting. Negotiations have been underway for quite a while. Of course there will be disruptions and delays, but the rest of the world won’t let you starve. Inconveniences, most assuredly. But it will get better. There will be a learning curve.3 -
Yes. The details of these are not what makes news however, just the scaremongering.missysippy930 wrote: »Negotiations have been underway for quite a while.
At a cost... yes, most of us will cope even if the prices go up and the "thing" you want isn't available this week.missysippy930 wrote: »Of course there will be disruptions and delays, but the rest of the world won’t let you starve.
The majority of kneejerk reaction is due to uncertainty. The panickers will continue to panic.missysippy930 wrote: »Inconveniences, most assuredly. But it will get better. There will be a learning curve.
Edit to add: Voted for by a slim majority. In real terms there is an almost 50/50 split over this across the nation.
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I think many Americans can sympathize with you there.sytchequeen wrote: »
Yes. The details of these are not what makes news however, just the scaremongering.missysippy930 wrote: »Negotiations have been underway for quite a while.
At a cost... yes, most of us will cope even if the prices go up and the "thing" you want isn't available this week.missysippy930 wrote: »Of course there will be disruptions and delays, but the rest of the world won’t let you starve.
The majority of kneejerk reaction is due to uncertainty. The panickers will continue to panic.missysippy930 wrote: »Inconveniences, most assuredly. But it will get better. There will be a learning curve.
Edit to add: Voted for by a slim majority. In real terms there is an almost 50/50 split over this across the nation.
I hope any food or (especially as I have read is possible) medical shortages are short-lived and the fallout isn't as bad as the Doomsday prophets would have you believe. We live in a modern, global society. No developed country can be an island (even though you are, literally, an island
) 7 -
Shades of Y2K. <nods>5
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I am strangely more worried about running out of toilet tissue than starving to death. I may need to re-think my priorities.
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manderson27 wrote: »I am strangely more worried about running out of toilet tissue than starving to death. I may need to re-think my priorities.
In a strange twist, buy copies of the Daily Mail that will be the worst ‘trumpeter of doom’ and cut into 4” squares! Worked for generations 😉😂😂
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I think many Americans can sympathize with you there.sytchequeen wrote: »
Yes. The details of these are not what makes news however, just the scaremongering.missysippy930 wrote: »Negotiations have been underway for quite a while.
At a cost... yes, most of us will cope even if the prices go up and the "thing" you want isn't available this week.missysippy930 wrote: »Of course there will be disruptions and delays, but the rest of the world won’t let you starve.
The majority of kneejerk reaction is due to uncertainty. The panickers will continue to panic.missysippy930 wrote: »Inconveniences, most assuredly. But it will get better. There will be a learning curve.
Edit to add: Voted for by a slim majority. In real terms there is an almost 50/50 split over this across the nation.
I hope any food or (especially as I have read is possible) medical shortages are short-lived and the fallout isn't as bad as the Doomsday prophets would have you believe. We live in a modern, global society. No developed country can be an island (even though you are, literally, an island )
Yes, I'd be most concerned about possible medication shortages. As we have seen from this thread, one can pick other veggies.
I'd hoard loo roll as well.
Who all thinks the Oct 31 deadline is going to be the actual deadline for reals this time?0
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