Have you gone 90% and over your MHR doing HIIT?
pcdoctor01
Posts: 389 Member
I was doing a Bodyfit by Amy HIIT workout this morning and when I checked my highest heart rate it was 91% my maximum heart rate. I'm using a generic, chest strap heart rate monitor.
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Replies
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Lots of times. I have even gone over 100%. The maximum heart rate formula isn't that accurate0
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Thanks for responding!0
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There can be a very large difference between a calculated Max HR and your true attainable Max HR.
A ramp test rather than short duration intervals is the way to test it but....- It's hugely fatiguing to do.
- Really unpleasant,
- And the result may well not be of any practical use to you. Especially during HIIT when your HR lags behind effort anyway.
Why are you concerned by it?
Did you have any signs of cardiac distress beyond the feeling of working very hard?1 -
Heart rate is basically useless for short intervals like HIIT because there's too much lag. It takes about 45-60 seconds to reflect what you're doing, and your intervals and 30 seconds long. That's why people use power or pace to titrate this kind of effort.
But yeah, I've had my ticker in the 90s % plenty of times.3 -
Yes, compared to tested HRmax.
But that was only for like the 1st three intervals in a session, the next 7 the legs were gone so couldn't push the HR that high.
Calisthenics which you may have been doing, and moving on from different movements to other movements, is a tad different, and many times using smaller muscles that can't push the HR high enough compared to big leg muscles.
In which case I'd bet your HRM has a low estimate for your HRmax compared to your actual.
So you really didn't go that high.
Which really doesn't matter because non-leg muscles can be worn out just as bad without being able to push the HR that high.2 -
I spend time in 90 percent land frequently but seldom go above 93 percent. I’ve determined my MHR based on lots of experience so, of course, I might be off a little.
Never used those standard formulas to determine. I’d be under training if I did.2 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Lots of times. I have even gone over 100%. The maximum heart rate formula isn't that accurate
You're right, that means the HR formula isn't accurate for you. Most apps have a way to enter you own max (sometimes it has to be your best estimate, because as sijomial mentioned, it's incredibly hard to do a true max HR test). It's technically not possible to do 110% of max HR. Max HR is just that, maximum your heart can beat.
I'm supposed to do a 5K rowing TT this month. That's a fairly accurate Max HR test. You take the last 3 minutes or so and you add around 5% to it and you might get a nice estimate of your max HR. I've wimped out on it twice now this month already because it's so grueling. Totally draining to do one if you're truly giving it everything. HIIT won't achieve max HR typically. It has to usually be 15 to 20 minutes of very hard sustained effort. Most aren't in shape enough to do that. I could never do it running. For me, the Assault Bike and Indoor Rower are better indicators than running, where I'm limited by my joints and the pounding.
I like to take my hard interval days up to 90% but not beyond it. Going beyond 90% (at least for me) is usually reserved for harder timed tests and competitions.1 -
Sure. For actual tested HRmax, even. (I did a rowing machine ramp test a while back so I know actual HRmax with fair accuracy.) Hitting 90-100% is oddly exhilarating, but very challenging, and can't be sustained for very long.
I hit 100% or more of my 220-age heart rate somewhat regularly (I'm 63, so it'd be 157: I usually try to hit 157 at some point in each of my twice-weekly spin classes, just for funsies, but don't always quite get there). It's difficult, and I couldn't stay there for a really long time, but it's quite do-able. It's only about 85% of actual HRmax, though.
BTW: Those of us reporting HRmax greater than age estimated aren't bragging. It's mostly about genetics, plus (to some extent) age (HRmax tends to drop with age). Training doesn't much move it (it can drop more slowly with age for those who keep training, in my understanding).
If you are moderately new to training, and didn't feel like the 91% you hit was mega-taxing, you probably have a higher than age-estimated HRmax, too.
Regardless, good for you, doing an intense workout!
One thing to be aware of: Truly intense workouts are not a good daily routine. Even elite athletes don't go to extreme intensities every day. For us sub-elites, they can be exhausting/fatiguing disproportionate to any calorie-burning benefits, not the optimum way to progress in fitness, and - if calisthenics or weights are involved - more likely to result in injury due to poor form, since it's hard to focus on good form at top speed.
Best wishes!5 -
Thanks everyone for responding!1
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MikePfirrman wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Lots of times. I have even gone over 100%. The maximum heart rate formula isn't that accurate
You're right, that means the HR formula isn't accurate for you. Most apps have a way to enter you own max (sometimes it has to be your best estimate, because as sijomial mentioned, it's incredibly hard to do a true max HR test). It's technically not possible to do 110% of max HR. Max HR is just that, maximum your heart can beat.
I'm supposed to do a 5K rowing TT this month. That's a fairly accurate Max HR test. You take the last 3 minutes or so and you add around 5% to it and you might get a nice estimate of your max HR. I've wimped out on it twice now this month already because it's so grueling. Totally draining to do one if you're truly giving it everything. HIIT won't achieve max HR typically. It has to usually be 15 to 20 minutes of very hard sustained effort. Most aren't in shape enough to do that. I could never do it running. For me, the Assault Bike and Indoor Rower are better indicators than running, where I'm limited by my joints and the pounding.
I like to take my hard interval days up to 90% but not beyond it. Going beyond 90% (at least for me) is usually reserved for harder timed tests and competitions.
That's a tad long to try to determine HRmax actually. How long is the 5K rowing TT?
VO2max tests which usually includes HRmax along with it usually have to fast ramping - or you won't have the muscle ability to push it high enough - too much lactate acid buildup.
The desire is usually to hit max at around 12-15 min - and decent chunk of that time is starting slow enough to fool ya.
Usually any maxHR hit at the end of a long or decently hard effort for decent amount of time is still short of HRmax.
There are several protocols if cleared by a Dr - but then again, much more interesting figures to use to base training on than HRmax, like LT/AT threshold or VO2max.
2 -
I used to go over in the beginning. I'm 37, M, 5'11, 180lbs. (I was much heavier when I started)
Doing Insanity, i had my watch beeping all the time.
As my resistance improved, so did the HR.
I now blast through the workouts at a much higher pace and I struggle to go over 160bpm.
My legs turn to mush before the heart rate goes.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Lots of times. I have even gone over 100%. The maximum heart rate formula isn't that accurate
You're right, that means the HR formula isn't accurate for you. Most apps have a way to enter you own max (sometimes it has to be your best estimate, because as sijomial mentioned, it's incredibly hard to do a true max HR test). It's technically not possible to do 110% of max HR. Max HR is just that, maximum your heart can beat.
I'm supposed to do a 5K rowing TT this month. That's a fairly accurate Max HR test. You take the last 3 minutes or so and you add around 5% to it and you might get a nice estimate of your max HR. I've wimped out on it twice now this month already because it's so grueling. Totally draining to do one if you're truly giving it everything. HIIT won't achieve max HR typically. It has to usually be 15 to 20 minutes of very hard sustained effort. Most aren't in shape enough to do that. I could never do it running. For me, the Assault Bike and Indoor Rower are better indicators than running, where I'm limited by my joints and the pounding.
I like to take my hard interval days up to 90% but not beyond it. Going beyond 90% (at least for me) is usually reserved for harder timed tests and competitions.
That's a tad long to try to determine HRmax actually. How long is the 5K rowing TT?
VO2max tests which usually includes HRmax along with it usually have to fast ramping - or you won't have the muscle ability to push it high enough - too much lactate acid buildup.
The desire is usually to hit max at around 12-15 min - and decent chunk of that time is starting slow enough to fool ya.
Usually any maxHR hit at the end of a long or decently hard effort for decent amount of time is still short of HRmax.
There are several protocols if cleared by a Dr - but then again, much more interesting figures to use to base training on than HRmax, like LT/AT threshold or VO2max.
That's what I've always been told by Indoor Rowers with years more experience than I have. Yeah, it's a long time, but I've also found that by doing 30 or so 5K TTs over the last five or six years, it's pretty accurate. Right now, it would take me around 21 minutes. I'm recovering from a pretty serious back injury. Most of my times were around 19:40 before the injury. I find it took that long to really get the HR up there. I did 3K last week (around 13 minutes) and my HR only got to around 175 or so. My max is around 192 or so. It takes me nearly the full 20 minutes to get to mid to high 180s. Really strong rowers will be sub 19 or even sub 18 (World class even lower).
5Ks do have serious lactate build up, no doubt. That's actually why I aborted my attempt last week. I haven't built back up that level of pain tolerance yet. That's why I think that true HR max training should be reserved for those in pretty good cardio shape. Since my back injury, I'm still getting back to that point.
@ Ann - "oddly exhilerating". Found that hysterical, but somewhat true. I think there's a point in serious max HR tests where you stop feeling the pain and you become light headed from lack of oxygen to the brain.0 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Lots of times. I have even gone over 100%. The maximum heart rate formula isn't that accurate
You're right, that means the HR formula isn't accurate for you. Most apps have a way to enter you own max (sometimes it has to be your best estimate, because as sijomial mentioned, it's incredibly hard to do a true max HR test). It's technically not possible to do 110% of max HR. Max HR is just that, maximum your heart can beat.
I'm supposed to do a 5K rowing TT this month. That's a fairly accurate Max HR test. You take the last 3 minutes or so and you add around 5% to it and you might get a nice estimate of your max HR. I've wimped out on it twice now this month already because it's so grueling. Totally draining to do one if you're truly giving it everything. HIIT won't achieve max HR typically. It has to usually be 15 to 20 minutes of very hard sustained effort. Most aren't in shape enough to do that. I could never do it running. For me, the Assault Bike and Indoor Rower are better indicators than running, where I'm limited by my joints and the pounding.
I like to take my hard interval days up to 90% but not beyond it. Going beyond 90% (at least for me) is usually reserved for harder timed tests and competitions.
That's a tad long to try to determine HRmax actually. How long is the 5K rowing TT?
VO2max tests which usually includes HRmax along with it usually have to fast ramping - or you won't have the muscle ability to push it high enough - too much lactate acid buildup.
The desire is usually to hit max at around 12-15 min - and decent chunk of that time is starting slow enough to fool ya.
Usually any maxHR hit at the end of a long or decently hard effort for decent amount of time is still short of HRmax.
There are several protocols if cleared by a Dr - but then again, much more interesting figures to use to base training on than HRmax, like LT/AT threshold or VO2max.
That's what I've always been told by Indoor Rowers with years more experience than I have. Yeah, it's a long time, but I've also found that by doing 30 or so 5K TTs over the last five or six years, it's pretty accurate. Right now, it would take me around 21 minutes. I'm recovering from a pretty serious back injury. Most of my times were around 19:40 before the injury. I find it took that long to really get the HR up there. I did 3K last week (around 13 minutes) and my HR only got to around 175 or so. My max is around 192 or so. It takes me nearly the full 20 minutes to get to mid to high 180s. Really strong rowers will be sub 19 or even sub 18 (World class even lower).
5Ks do have serious lactate build up, no doubt. That's actually why I aborted my attempt last week. I haven't built back up that level of pain tolerance yet. That's why I think that true HR max training should be reserved for those in pretty good cardio shape. Since my back injury, I'm still getting back to that point.
@ Ann - "oddly exhilerating". Found that hysterical, but somewhat true. I think there's a point in serious max HR tests where you stop feeling the pain and you become light headed from lack of oxygen to the brain.
Interesting thought! I would've put it down more to endorphins, maybe some interesting acrobatics of misplaced fight or flight hormones in the success condition ("I escaped the mountain cat! Yay!", only it was a ramp test or an LT workout or something
), and just plain happiness (surprise?) about finding one can accomplish a really difficult physical goal.
The all day post-exercise cough I get from these things is a drag, though.
2 -
WhenI was a younger fun runner capable of faster running than now, I would always take note of my HR as I was dashing to the finish line of a 10k fun run. I considered my highest reading to be my max. That was 185 bpm during my early 50’s.
Now, at age 64, I’ve dialed it down to 180 bpm. Is it lower? I don’t know but do know that I don’t seem to be willing to push my pedal to the metal further to find out at this time.
Good enough.2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Lots of times. I have even gone over 100%. The maximum heart rate formula isn't that accurate
You're right, that means the HR formula isn't accurate for you. Most apps have a way to enter you own max (sometimes it has to be your best estimate, because as sijomial mentioned, it's incredibly hard to do a true max HR test). It's technically not possible to do 110% of max HR. Max HR is just that, maximum your heart can beat.
I'm supposed to do a 5K rowing TT this month. That's a fairly accurate Max HR test. You take the last 3 minutes or so and you add around 5% to it and you might get a nice estimate of your max HR. I've wimped out on it twice now this month already because it's so grueling. Totally draining to do one if you're truly giving it everything. HIIT won't achieve max HR typically. It has to usually be 15 to 20 minutes of very hard sustained effort. Most aren't in shape enough to do that. I could never do it running. For me, the Assault Bike and Indoor Rower are better indicators than running, where I'm limited by my joints and the pounding.
I like to take my hard interval days up to 90% but not beyond it. Going beyond 90% (at least for me) is usually reserved for harder timed tests and competitions.
That's a tad long to try to determine HRmax actually. How long is the 5K rowing TT?
VO2max tests which usually includes HRmax along with it usually have to fast ramping - or you won't have the muscle ability to push it high enough - too much lactate acid buildup.
The desire is usually to hit max at around 12-15 min - and decent chunk of that time is starting slow enough to fool ya.
Usually any maxHR hit at the end of a long or decently hard effort for decent amount of time is still short of HRmax.
There are several protocols if cleared by a Dr - but then again, much more interesting figures to use to base training on than HRmax, like LT/AT threshold or VO2max.
That's what I've always been told by Indoor Rowers with years more experience than I have. Yeah, it's a long time, but I've also found that by doing 30 or so 5K TTs over the last five or six years, it's pretty accurate. Right now, it would take me around 21 minutes. I'm recovering from a pretty serious back injury. Most of my times were around 19:40 before the injury. I find it took that long to really get the HR up there. I did 3K last week (around 13 minutes) and my HR only got to around 175 or so. My max is around 192 or so. It takes me nearly the full 20 minutes to get to mid to high 180s. Really strong rowers will be sub 19 or even sub 18 (World class even lower).
5Ks do have serious lactate build up, no doubt. That's actually why I aborted my attempt last week. I haven't built back up that level of pain tolerance yet. That's why I think that true HR max training should be reserved for those in pretty good cardio shape. Since my back injury, I'm still getting back to that point.
@ Ann - "oddly exhilerating". Found that hysterical, but somewhat true. I think there's a point in serious max HR tests where you stop feeling the pain and you become light headed from lack of oxygen to the brain.
Interesting thought! I would've put it down more to endorphins, maybe some interesting acrobatics of misplaced fight or flight hormones in the success condition ("I escaped the mountain cat! Yay!", only it was a ramp test or an LT workout or something ), and just plain happiness (surprise?) about finding one can accomplish a really difficult physical goal.
The all day post-exercise cough I get from these things is a drag, though.
I've always chalked it up to endorphins, too. For me the "buzz" comes after the exercise, not during. I have to hit a fairly high HR and hold it for a bit to get that feeling. I assume this is what "runners' high" is, too.3 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Lots of times. I have even gone over 100%. The maximum heart rate formula isn't that accurate
You're right, that means the HR formula isn't accurate for you. Most apps have a way to enter you own max (sometimes it has to be your best estimate, because as sijomial mentioned, it's incredibly hard to do a true max HR test). It's technically not possible to do 110% of max HR. Max HR is just that, maximum your heart can beat.
I'm supposed to do a 5K rowing TT this month. That's a fairly accurate Max HR test. You take the last 3 minutes or so and you add around 5% to it and you might get a nice estimate of your max HR. I've wimped out on it twice now this month already because it's so grueling. Totally draining to do one if you're truly giving it everything. HIIT won't achieve max HR typically. It has to usually be 15 to 20 minutes of very hard sustained effort. Most aren't in shape enough to do that. I could never do it running. For me, the Assault Bike and Indoor Rower are better indicators than running, where I'm limited by my joints and the pounding.
I like to take my hard interval days up to 90% but not beyond it. Going beyond 90% (at least for me) is usually reserved for harder timed tests and competitions.
That's a tad long to try to determine HRmax actually. How long is the 5K rowing TT?
VO2max tests which usually includes HRmax along with it usually have to fast ramping - or you won't have the muscle ability to push it high enough - too much lactate acid buildup.
The desire is usually to hit max at around 12-15 min - and decent chunk of that time is starting slow enough to fool ya.
Usually any maxHR hit at the end of a long or decently hard effort for decent amount of time is still short of HRmax.
There are several protocols if cleared by a Dr - but then again, much more interesting figures to use to base training on than HRmax, like LT/AT threshold or VO2max.
The ideal duration for a VO2 max test is more like 8-12 min, and lactic acid is no longer consider the “fatigue factor”, but the overall gist of this is correct.
2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Lots of times. I have even gone over 100%. The maximum heart rate formula isn't that accurate
You're right, that means the HR formula isn't accurate for you. Most apps have a way to enter you own max (sometimes it has to be your best estimate, because as sijomial mentioned, it's incredibly hard to do a true max HR test). It's technically not possible to do 110% of max HR. Max HR is just that, maximum your heart can beat.
I'm supposed to do a 5K rowing TT this month. That's a fairly accurate Max HR test. You take the last 3 minutes or so and you add around 5% to it and you might get a nice estimate of your max HR. I've wimped out on it twice now this month already because it's so grueling. Totally draining to do one if you're truly giving it everything. HIIT won't achieve max HR typically. It has to usually be 15 to 20 minutes of very hard sustained effort. Most aren't in shape enough to do that. I could never do it running. For me, the Assault Bike and Indoor Rower are better indicators than running, where I'm limited by my joints and the pounding.
I like to take my hard interval days up to 90% but not beyond it. Going beyond 90% (at least for me) is usually reserved for harder timed tests and competitions.
That's a tad long to try to determine HRmax actually. How long is the 5K rowing TT?
VO2max tests which usually includes HRmax along with it usually have to fast ramping - or you won't have the muscle ability to push it high enough - too much lactate acid buildup.
The desire is usually to hit max at around 12-15 min - and decent chunk of that time is starting slow enough to fool ya.
Usually any maxHR hit at the end of a long or decently hard effort for decent amount of time is still short of HRmax.
There are several protocols if cleared by a Dr - but then again, much more interesting figures to use to base training on than HRmax, like LT/AT threshold or VO2max.
The ideal duration for a VO2 max test is more like 8-12 min, and lactic acid is no longer consider the “fatigue factor”, but the overall gist of this is correct.
Was curious about this for rowing. Here's one useful test. The Aussies are among the best at rowing in the world. This sounds like a terribly brutal test with a lot of lactic build-up. Perhaps the shorter tests are built for average Joe's like me. They say this test (assuming the last rep is at a pace of recent 2K PB or better) will tell you fairly close to a real HR Max. This looks more brutal, BTW, than a 5K TT. Basically, it's a ladder workout, starting out at warmup pace, building to max speed over 34 minutes (28 active, 6 minutes rest).
https://rowingaustralia.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/RA-7-step-rowing-protocol-2016-2020-Update-4-Nov-2016.pdf0
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