USDA Nutrient Database disappearing next week
lynn_glenmont
Posts: 10,093 Member
Just noticed this announcement on the USDA NDB site:
Argh. I hate change in tools I use all the time when there are no apparent gains in functionality, features, etc. Just having to relearn how to use it, and so far all I see is loss of functionality. No predictive search strings as you type, no side-by-side displays of data for different serving units. And if I'm understanding the definitions of the data sources, the USDA is no longer going to be providing any future data based on its own analysis -- just USDA legacy data and other sources for which it provides no indication of who funds it.
I guess this is just a rant, but if anybody who has looked at the FoodData Central has found any neat new features that will ease the pain of transition, please speak up. :
As of October 1, 2019, this website (https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/) will no longer be available and users will be automatically redirected to FoodData Central, USDA’s new integrated, research-focused food and nutrient data system.
Argh. I hate change in tools I use all the time when there are no apparent gains in functionality, features, etc. Just having to relearn how to use it, and so far all I see is loss of functionality. No predictive search strings as you type, no side-by-side displays of data for different serving units. And if I'm understanding the definitions of the data sources, the USDA is no longer going to be providing any future data based on its own analysis -- just USDA legacy data and other sources for which it provides no indication of who funds it.
I guess this is just a rant, but if anybody who has looked at the FoodData Central has found any neat new features that will ease the pain of transition, please speak up. :
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Replies
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I share your pain
The new system was up for a few hours last week and I Did Not Like It, especially the loss of the predictive search strings.3 -
Crazy hard0
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That's gonna mess with the "Most Helpful Posts" on this site, too.
I don't use the USDA nutrition site very often, and I actually didn't like the predictive search, I felt like the results were too variable and I didn't know where all those choices came from, sort of like on MFP. All those brand names and various results for the same products that couldn't possibly be correct since the manufacturers change their formulations.
I guess my life is pretty simple, all the foods I eat regularly are entered as raw whole foods and now they're all in my personal lists so I doubt this will affect me.
I'll give you both hugs anyway. Sorry if you aren't huggy people.
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cmriverside wrote: »That's gonna mess with the "Most Helpful Posts" on this site, too.
I don't use the USDA nutrition site very often, and I actually didn't like the predictive search, I felt like the results were too variable and I didn't know where all those choices came from, sort of like on MFP. All those brand names and various results for the same products that couldn't possibly be correct since the manufacturers change their formulations.
I guess my life is pretty simple, all the foods I eat regularly are entered as raw whole foods and now they're all in my personal lists so I doubt this will affect me.
I'll give you both hugs anyway. Sorry if you aren't huggy people.
I like hugs
It's a little late for this tip, but you could have used the Standard Reference database filter to exclude all manufacturers. I only used this database for whole foods - for branded foods I searched MFP and verified against the label.
My whole foods are in my Recents too, but with desktop, it was faster to search the USDA database and plug that syntax into MFP then to search Recents page by page.
I think the app has better search(?)4 -
@kshama2001
now you tell me.
I really don't remember, I haven't been on USDA for years.
Thanks! I know who to tag when I need to use the new one.
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anytime the government changes something, it all goes to *kitten*!2
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cmriverside wrote: »@kshama2001
now you tell me. I really don't remember, I haven't been on USDA for years.
Thanks! I know who to tag when I need to use the new one.
I hate change and predict all I'll be doing is complaining for at least all of October
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kshama2001 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »@kshama2001
now you tell me. I really don't remember, I haven't been on USDA for years.
Thanks! I know who to tag when I need to use the new one.
I hate change and predict all I'll be doing is complaining for at least all of October
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cmriverside wrote: »That's gonna mess with the "Most Helpful Posts" on this site, too.
I don't use the USDA nutrition site very often, and I actually didn't like the predictive search, I felt like the results were too variable and I didn't know where all those choices came from, sort of like on MFP. All those brand names and various results for the same products that couldn't possibly be correct since the manufacturers change their formulations.
I guess my life is pretty simple, all the foods I eat regularly are entered as raw whole foods and now they're all in my personal lists so I doubt this will affect me.
I'll give you both hugs anyway. Sorry if you aren't huggy people.
This is obviously too late to do you much good, but I generally used the USDA NDB site limiting it to what they called the "standard" database, which seemed to be only the generic, commodity-style USDA lab-generated info (e.g., bananas, raw; chicken, thighs, meat only, roasted; etc.).
ETA: Thanks for the hug. Backatchya.
EATA: I see @kshama2001 beat me to it on the "standard" tip.
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cmriverside wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »@kshama2001
now you tell me. I really don't remember, I haven't been on USDA for years.
Thanks! I know who to tag when I need to use the new one.
I hate change and predict all I'll be doing is complaining for at least all of October
Oh! I should have asked for comforting animal gifs instead of possible nonexistent upsides to the new FoodData Central website.2 -
My food diary is on Cronometer and the items I log most usually come from the NCCDB so it probably won't have any effect on me in the short run. Still, I think it's yet another shameful example of abandoning a public service.
Thanks. It looks like the NCCDB requires you to license it, which I assume is for businesses? Is it available to individual consumers?0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »My food diary is on Cronometer and the items I log most usually come from the NCCDB so it probably won't have any effect on me in the short run. Still, I think it's yet another shameful example of abandoning a public service.
Thanks. It looks like the NCCDB requires you to license it, which I assume is for businesses? Is it available to individual consumers?
I access it through https://cronometer.com/ which is is a free to use diet and exercise nutrition and calorie tracker very similar to MFP. Like MFP you can pay a monthly subscription to get some enhanced features. I prefer the available databases, food diary, and recipe functions in Crono but MFP has a much more active social component. More about the databases used by Cronometer here.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »My food diary is on Cronometer and the items I log most usually come from the NCCDB so it probably won't have any effect on me in the short run. Still, I think it's yet another shameful example of abandoning a public service.
Thanks. It looks like the NCCDB requires you to license it, which I assume is for businesses? Is it available to individual consumers?
I access it through https://cronometer.com/ which is is a free to use diet and exercise nutrition and calorie tracker very similar to MFP. Like MFP you can pay a monthly subscription to get some enhanced features. I prefer the available databases, food diary, and recipe functions in Crono but MFP has a much more active social component. More about the databases used by Cronometer here.
Thank you.0 -
nighthawk584 wrote: »anytime the government changes something, it all goes to *kitten*!
Agreed... and I work for a government entity. Every time they decide to change or upgrade something, you better believe it will be a slightly worse version of what is currently in use. Dealing with it now.2 -
I've never used it but if you think the change is bad, why not give a call, email or otherwise contact your congressman - might help, can't hurt0
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The new site sucks
I use the old site all the time so that I can find the correct MFP database entries.
I searched for 'lentils' and initially got over 900 results. I narrowed to just SR legacy and got 9 which is manageable.
Next I tried 'chicken' with just the SR legacy selected... 392 results. Who has time for that looking through that list?
I wonder if MFP would please identify the uploaded USDA results in some way to make it easier to search right in MFP. Either bold them, italize, highlight... whatever. Something.0 -
The new site sucks I use the old site all the time so that I can find the correct MFP database entries.
I searched for 'lentils' and initially got over 900 results. I narrowed to just SR legacy and got 9 which is manageable.
Next I tried 'chicken' with just the SR legacy selected... 392 results. Who has time for that looking through that list?
I wonder if MFP would please identify the uploaded USDA results in some way to make it easier to search right in MFP. Either bold them, italize, highlight... whatever. Something.
From your fingers to God's ear.
I've been making this request for over ten years. I hope you asking for it will be more productive. They used to have an asterisk in use for non-MFP entered foods, but on one of the genius Updates, they took that away. Really made the database nearly worthless to me. That's when I started entering ALL my own food - now at least I know mine are correct. A separate Admin-entered database would be so smart.2 -
The new site sucks I use the old site all the time so that I can find the correct MFP database entries.
I searched for 'lentils' and initially got over 900 results. I narrowed to just SR legacy and got 9 which is manageable.
Next I tried 'chicken' with just the SR legacy selected... 392 results. Who has time for that looking through that list?
I wonder if MFP would please identify the uploaded USDA results in some way to make it easier to search right in MFP. Either bold them, italize, highlight... whatever. Something.
@Alex as you know, right now both the entries MFP pulled from the USDA database and user-created entries that are "Verified" have the green check marks.
With the old USDA database going away and the new one not being as user friendly (see above), it would be really helpful if there was something to differentiate the entries that MFP pulled from the USDA database. (To clarify - not entries that say USDA, as these are user-created.)
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kshama2001 wrote: »The new site sucks I use the old site all the time so that I can find the correct MFP database entries.
I searched for 'lentils' and initially got over 900 results. I narrowed to just SR legacy and got 9 which is manageable.
Next I tried 'chicken' with just the SR legacy selected... 392 results. Who has time for that looking through that list?
I wonder if MFP would please identify the uploaded USDA results in some way to make it easier to search right in MFP. Either bold them, italize, highlight... whatever. Something.
@Alex as you know, right now both the entries MFP pulled from the USDA database and user-created entries that are "Verified" have the green check marks.
With the old USDA database going away and the new one not being as user friendly (see above), it would be really helpful if there was something to differentiate the USDA entries.
Well, not JUST the USDA entries, because there are thousands of user-entered ones that say "USDA" as you know.
The MFP-Administrative entered ones, please differentiate THOSE. My thing has always been, "Make it a separate list." But a different color in the list would even work, or just having them be the top choice, always. The color seems an easier fix...and would still be a nuisance for the user. This has always been THE major gripe with this site.
Now that Chronometer does a much better job, not sure why MFP wouldn't prioritize this. When the site was the only decent database, MFP was a lot more attractive. Now it's just annoying for new users. I stay because I've made my own MY FOODS that works for me, but if I was looking for a free site, I don't think I'd pick this one today.7 -
cmriverside wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »The new site sucks I use the old site all the time so that I can find the correct MFP database entries.
I searched for 'lentils' and initially got over 900 results. I narrowed to just SR legacy and got 9 which is manageable.
Next I tried 'chicken' with just the SR legacy selected... 392 results. Who has time for that looking through that list?
I wonder if MFP would please identify the uploaded USDA results in some way to make it easier to search right in MFP. Either bold them, italize, highlight... whatever. Something.
@Alex as you know, right now both the entries MFP pulled from the USDA database and user-created entries that are "Verified" have the green check marks.
With the old USDA database going away and the new one not being as user friendly (see above), it would be really helpful if there was something to differentiate the USDA entries.
Well, not JUST the USDA entries, because there are thousands of user-entered ones that say "USDA" as you know.
The MFP-Administrative entered ones, please differentiate THOSE. My thing has always been, "Make it a separate list." But a different color in the list would even work, or just having them be the top choice, always. The color seems an easier fix...and would still be a nuisance for the user. This has always been THE major gripe with this site.
Now that Chronometer does a much better job, not sure why MFP wouldn't prioritize this. When the site was the only decent database, MFP was a lot more attractive. Now it's just annoying for new users. I stay because I've made my own MY FOODS that works for me, but if I was looking for a free site, I don't think I'd pick this one today.
I edited my post to clarify that I was not referring to user entries that include "USDA".
I agree that MFP should prioritize this, especially since a Chronometer membership includes access to the now superior database mentioned above.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »The new site sucks I use the old site all the time so that I can find the correct MFP database entries.
I searched for 'lentils' and initially got over 900 results. I narrowed to just SR legacy and got 9 which is manageable.
Next I tried 'chicken' with just the SR legacy selected... 392 results. Who has time for that looking through that list?
I wonder if MFP would please identify the uploaded USDA results in some way to make it easier to search right in MFP. Either bold them, italize, highlight... whatever. Something.
@Alex as you know, right now both the entries MFP pulled from the USDA database and user-created entries that are "Verified" have the green check marks.
With the old USDA database going away and the new one not being as user friendly (see above), it would be really helpful if there was something to differentiate the USDA entries.
Well, not JUST the USDA entries, because there are thousands of user-entered ones that say "USDA" as you know.
The MFP-Administrative entered ones, please differentiate THOSE. My thing has always been, "Make it a separate list." But a different color in the list would even work, or just having them be the top choice, always. The color seems an easier fix...and would still be a nuisance for the user. This has always been THE major gripe with this site.
Now that Chronometer does a much better job, not sure why MFP wouldn't prioritize this. When the site was the only decent database, MFP was a lot more attractive. Now it's just annoying for new users. I stay because I've made my own MY FOODS that works for me, but if I was looking for a free site, I don't think I'd pick this one today.
I edited my post to clarify that I was not referring to user entries that include "USDA".
I agree that MFP should prioritize this, especially since a Chronometer membership includes access to the now superior database mentioned above.
Is Chronometer free? Have you checked out the forums? I can't view them for some reason. Of course, I'm also not signed up over there. The thought of having to start over is daunting. After being on here since '07, I just don't even want to think about it...4 -
cmriverside wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »The new site sucks I use the old site all the time so that I can find the correct MFP database entries.
I searched for 'lentils' and initially got over 900 results. I narrowed to just SR legacy and got 9 which is manageable.
Next I tried 'chicken' with just the SR legacy selected... 392 results. Who has time for that looking through that list?
I wonder if MFP would please identify the uploaded USDA results in some way to make it easier to search right in MFP. Either bold them, italize, highlight... whatever. Something.
@Alex as you know, right now both the entries MFP pulled from the USDA database and user-created entries that are "Verified" have the green check marks.
With the old USDA database going away and the new one not being as user friendly (see above), it would be really helpful if there was something to differentiate the USDA entries.
Well, not JUST the USDA entries, because there are thousands of user-entered ones that say "USDA" as you know.
The MFP-Administrative entered ones, please differentiate THOSE. My thing has always been, "Make it a separate list." But a different color in the list would even work, or just having them be the top choice, always. The color seems an easier fix...and would still be a nuisance for the user. This has always been THE major gripe with this site.
Now that Chronometer does a much better job, not sure why MFP wouldn't prioritize this. When the site was the only decent database, MFP was a lot more attractive. Now it's just annoying for new users. I stay because I've made my own MY FOODS that works for me, but if I was looking for a free site, I don't think I'd pick this one today.
I edited my post to clarify that I was not referring to user entries that include "USDA".
I agree that MFP should prioritize this, especially since a Chronometer membership includes access to the now superior database mentioned above.
Is Chronometer free? Have you checked out the forums? I can't view them for some reason. Of course, I'm also not signed up over there. The thought of having to start over is daunting. After being on here since '07, I just don't even want to think about it...
I signed up for free but haven't used it - also daunted by starting over.
@lemurcat2 uses it; hoping she will weigh in.1 -
Finally got around to checking the new site, and it is indeed way worse. It doesn't affect me since when I log I also log at Cronometer, but it is going to make it harder to use MFP effectively for many new folks.
Similarly, the asterisk system was much better than the verified check mark one is. I think if you know how to recognize the old USDA entries already the database can be navigated with that (the actual USDA entries don't say USDA), but I would very much agree that having them in a different color would be superior.1 -
Re Cronometer, it's much easier than MFP if you eat mostly whole foods, but packaged stuff usually has to be added. I don't find it that difficult, but I also don't have a huge bunch of recipes or anything here, since I moved over to Cron for logging quite a while ago. I don't pay.0
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Re Cronometer, it's much easier than MFP if you eat mostly whole foods, but packaged stuff usually has to be added. I don't find it that difficult, but I also don't have a huge bunch of recipes or anything here, since I moved over to Cron for logging quite a while ago. I don't pay.
Do you go into the forums at all?
I mean, I'm not gonna leave MFP because I already have all my foods safely vetted, but just asking...for a friend...1 -
@lynn_glenmont
Thank you for starting this thread. That would have been a big shock for me without the warning. It'll still be a nuisance and a time sink to use the new site, but forewarned is forearmed.2 -
cmriverside wrote: »Re Cronometer, it's much easier than MFP if you eat mostly whole foods, but packaged stuff usually has to be added. I don't find it that difficult, but I also don't have a huge bunch of recipes or anything here, since I moved over to Cron for logging quite a while ago. I don't pay.
Do you go into the forums at all?
I mean, I'm not gonna leave MFP because I already have all my foods safely vetted, but just asking...for a friend...
No, not at all. I don't even have a username for the forums over there. That's why I'm still here! ;-) I use it strictly for logging.1 -
I was also very sad to see that notification. Why take away a good thing?2
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The new site sucks I use the old site all the time so that I can find the correct MFP database entries.
I searched for 'lentils' and initially got over 900 results. I narrowed to just SR legacy and got 9 which is manageable.
Next I tried 'chicken' with just the SR legacy selected... 392 results. Who has time for that looking through that list?
I wonder if MFP would please identify the uploaded USDA results in some way to make it easier to search right in MFP. Either bold them, italize, highlight... whatever. Something.
392 seems excessive, even with all the permutations of white vs. dark meat, skin included or just meat, cooked or raw, what cooking method, etc. I'm guessing by just typing chicken you're also picking up chicken soup, chicken broth, chicken fried rice, etc. A few years back you used to be able to narrow your search on the USDA database by category (e.g., meat, poultry, cereals and grains, legumes and legume products, etc.), but I guess that was too helpful and the functionality disappeared.1
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