Unsuccessful transition
Replies
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cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Oh, last thoughts.... @cmriverside is most likely right about it taking a year for some hunger hormones to balance some. I posted some recent research on the subject in the maintainers forum.
What happened to your AV image? Had me worried there for a minute, I thought you got in trouble!
*edit to say, all I was seeing was the gray bobblehead...now it's back to your other AV. Weird.
I am trouble ma'am!😉5 -
Glad to see you've taken in all the info and are re-considering where you want to be. The combination of loss of period and the binging episodes and intense hunger are more than ample clues you've gone too far and that some regain is needed for your to become healthy again. This is not a bug; it is a feature!
I second that it will take a while for the hunger cues to resolve and that you may have to fight it with time in conjunction with allowing for some regain.
Rest days are beneficial, you may want to restructure your routine to better incorporate them.
Since you seem to be a bit unsure about your maintenance you can go back to generic TDEE calculators for an estimate if your own data are suspect, which they are because of extreme restriction and over-exercise!
Your exercise, even after you reduced your run distance, remains on the high end. Regardless of whether you're sedentary or not outside of exercise, on the basis of exercise alone (and of being 5ft 6" @ 130lbs) your TDEE would be north of 2600 Cal a day, which means that you are probably still under-eating as opposed to over-eating unless you regularly hitting the almost 3K Calories range.
My "sage" advice would be to take a deep breath, eat at the maintenance level of someone a good 10lbs above you absolute minimum, and get there gradually while giving yourself time for the intense hunger to reduce. And any time you look at yourself and don't see complete perfection reflect on how much better you feel and move as compared to where you were 90+ lbs ago!
I was waiting for the Vicar of Vancouver to respond!5 -
Beyond the transition to weight loss itself I imagine the transition from deficit to maintenance as one of the most challenging - for several reasons, but what led to my initial failure was the formation of a new goal.
In so much of our lives we are conditioned to simply achieve a goal and then it's done. Prepare for and finish a test - done. Finish a class - one. Graduate - done. Marriage - done. The real struggle is in the maintenance phase as the new goal isn't as clear and not short term fulfilling. It requires higher level thinking, patience, and discipline.
When I first hit my goal weight I arrogantly thought - "Done!" and took a few celebratory weeks off - of course slipping into past habits and losing discipline. I completed one goal and never established a new goal. I took a long look at my behavior and got back into the discipline of logging and monitoring and setup a new goal of competing in obstacle course racing and triathlons. So this made weight management a secondary issue as I couldn't stay in deficit and be competitive. I also couldn't gain weight or my performance is going to drop.
Over time I turned this into higher order goals, but less objective - be better than I was yesterday, live a life worth reading about, live a life my family & friends would be proud of....things like that.
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@ElizabethKalmbach, thank you for asking but no, I don't actually have a physical illness, only this disordered thinking and eating that led to me overwhelming my body so much that I developed symptoms that mimic a physical illness. I will definitely keep track of this all. I can't see a doctor unless I really have to at the moment, but I will keep a note of how I feel. Thank you for the concern.
@CSARdiver, this definitely rings true. I found myself feeling incredibly bored while I was striving for maintenance. I remember daily being bored out of my mind as I got into this routine of my consistent exercise, meticulous tracking, and hyperwareness of my food choices. At one point, I started to fantasize about food because I think I just wanted something new, something out of the typical schedule. It's almost like this all happened because of the boredom and I needed to give myself a challenge again. Why couldn't it be a game of chess or perhaps learning a new theoretical concept?
Even though I did want to become stronger, I wanted to become leaner, and at the same time, didn't want to change my behaviors, so I'm the only one to blame here. My goals didn't match my actions and my state of mind. It's important that they align and the motivation is there.
Now, I have this new challenge of truly finding a healthy place. One that isn't in between two mountains but is its own location all together. I have the motivation for this. I just have to find the best way to get there and stay.8 -
umbramirror wrote: »Everyone's advice is so helpful. I'm finding it incredibly difficult to become comfortable with the idea of maintaining with the way I feel right now. Everything in me is telling me to restrict, to get back down to where I was. It's my mind and body's first reaction to bloat and heaviness, to try to compensate with restriction. However, I know that maintaining is what has to be done, to alleviate some of this stress, to regulate some of the dysfunction that has occurred, and to stabilize my balance that has clearly been out of balance.
Today is a challenge. I went to the gym but felt awful. One positive though is that I was able to increase my lifts a bit. 😅 I feel nauseous and bloated, so I don't have much of an interest in food. Today may have to be a lighter day before I return to maintenance level calories. One of the worst side effects besides the feeling of having a fever, chills, lethargy, etc. is that all of my clothes are tight. Putting on my work clothes made me really realize the weight (no pun intended) of what I had done.
I'm trying my best to not let this destroy me. I don't like the way I feel and I don't want this to continue. My goal is to consume more calories close to maintenance (which I will calculate) and decrease my exercise just a bit. It is more difficult than I would have ever thought!
Other than the loss of menstrual cycle, I could have written your original post word for word at the beginning of maintenance. At the beginning of my maintenance I was also close to your stats, 5'6 130lbs and rarely taking rest days from very intense exercise. I think part of the scale issue was that at 130lbs I still wasn't satisfied with my body but at the time I didn't realize I would never achieve the body I truly desired until I broke that scale obsession since it would eventually take several bulk/cut cycles along with an increase weight but decreased body fat percentage. I would eat in a very healthy sustainable way for weeks, have an extreme food day for whatever reason and then over restrict to compensate because I was terrified at the 5 pound increase reflected on the scale (despite knowing that half of it was water weight). The extreme deficit would work but would cause me to drastically over eat again which would then cause me to panic and introduce an extreme deficit again. This cycle could repeat for months sometimes before finding that healthy sustainable groove again; it truly felt uncontrollable.
I don't have a ton of advice unfortunately but i'll share the the thing that helped me personally break the cycle.
After having the the kind of high calorie day that would usually set off this cycle of panic, I would force myself to stay off the regular scale and eat at maintenance for a few days. After a few days I would slowly reintroduce a modest deficit. The same day that I reintroduced the deficit I would take a "baseline weight" on a quantum scale. This type of scale never shows an actual weight only cumulative loss so on day 1 in a deficit again I would reset the scale and it would show 0lbs. Week two after being in a -250 calorie deficit I would weight and the scale would show -.5lb. Week 3 after another week in a -250 calorie deficit the scale would show -1lb. Week 4 after another week in a -250 deficit it would show -1.5 etc.
I would track my weight loss and how I felt about my body each day until I was in a place where I felt good about my body again and at that point I would allow myself to weigh on a normal scale again. Sometimes it was after I lost three pounds, sometimes five, sometimes ten. Sometimes when I finally felt fantastic in my body and was ready, I checked the normal scale I was still five pounds heavier than my "panic" weight which shocked me. Sometimes when I finally checked the scale but still wasn't feeling totally great about my body it would show five pounds less than my "panic weight" which also shocked me. Doing this eventually showed me that the number on the scale truly didn't reflect how I felt about my body at any given moment. This really did help me break that cycle.
Though very very rare, even now four years into maintenance there have been a couple of occurrences where I've had to cut weight quickly for competition, over ate for a few days after the competition as a result and have felt the urge to introduce an extreme deficit. Though I can get on the regular scale now without the panic, I still use the "few days of maintenance strategy" to avoid falling into the restriction cycle.
My strategy for overcoming this obviously wont work for everyone. I mostly wanted to post to send support and good vibes. I also wanted to let you know there is hope in finding balance balance with exercising, eating and living life.15 -
There is some "thinking" around that reacting to too large of a deficit for our present circumstances (usually with subsequent over-eating) is a moral (or psychological) failing. This neglects that actual physical and hormonal changes are introduced during deficit eating and ignores the fact that these become magnified as we get leaner and as the deficits become larger when compared to our TDEE and our available energy reserves.
I firmly believe that we would probably be better off NOT triggering any of these reactions in the first place (hence my common suggestion of modest deficits over longer periods of time and avoidance of pushing into very low levels of energy reserves especially when exercising a lot). But, if these things didn't happen... these posts wouldn't be needed!
I am not aware of any remedy other than moderating exercise, allowing for managed regain (some times, for example, some rapid initial regain may be desirable), and for time to pass. I suppose that at some point hormone level restoration/management may become available from our health providers... but we're not there yet!9 -
There is some "thinking" around that reacting to too large of a deficit for our present circumstances (usually with subsequent over-eating) is a moral (or psychological) failing. This neglects that actual physical and hormonal changes are introduced during deficit eating and ignores the fact that these become magnified as we get leaner and as the deficits become larger when compared to our TDEE and our available energy reserves.
I firmly believe that we would probably be better off NOT triggering any of these reactions in the first place (hence my common suggestion of modest deficits over longer periods of time and avoidance of pushing into very low levels of energy reserves especially when exercising a lot). But, if these things didn't happen... these posts wouldn't be needed!
I am not aware of any remedy other than moderating exercise, allowing for managed regain (some times, for example, some rapid initial regain may be desirable), and for time to pass. I suppose that at some point hormone level restoration/management may become available from our health providers... but we're not there yet!
Still waiting for the "magical bullet". Not holding my breathe! 🤢2 -
@umbramirror I really, really don't want to project any of my personal paranoia or bias onto you, but if you feel the way you did at the gym for a while, especially after you resume a more ordered eating pattern, I highly recommend you get all your vitamin and mineral levels checked for deficiencies. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell which vitamins a body is lacking without blood tests, because the symptoms for MOST of the deficiencies are the same grouping of insomnia, nausea, vertigo, cramping, etc that are easy to brush off as an "off day" for like... 6 months straight. (Seriously. Please don't try to tough it out if your symptoms don't improve.)
In the meantime, if you're not already, a quality multi vitamin can be extremely helpful if your version of calorie restriction involves eating a lot of the same foods over and over, because it's just easier to log that way. ;-) (I had to make a RULE for myself that only ONE MEAL A DAY was allowed to be a protein shake, unless I had a doctor's note. :P So, I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just tattling on myself.)0 -
Wow, I feel your pain. I am 5'5.5" and lost 108 lbs. I've regained 12 after 2 years of maintenance. Most of the gain (9 pounds) was this year. I didn't know what to do and was panicking about it. I finally accepted where I am and have forced myself to weigh once a week and to get back to a modest deficit. It took me a year to lose the last 20 lbs so I have to accept it may well take me 6 months or more to get rid of the recent gain.
BTW, I only dream of being at your weight! I started at 251 and ended at 143. I'm now 155. Two trips this year have cost me dearly but I had a great time and I have to accept that part of maintenance is going to be relosing some of the weight after holidays. Hang in there and don't allow yourself to over-restrict your eating because that will just cause the binge cycle to start. I would advise giving it a few days at a deficit then bite the bullet and weigh. I know for myself in the past I have had total regains when I refused to weigh. That may just be me but you aren't alone my friend. Keep us posted with how you are doing.5 -
Licorice root is the single best herb for the adrenals, but should not be taken if you have high blood pressure since it can cause a 15 point increase in BP for some people.
There is a TCM (traditional chineese medicine) blend called Nervous Fatigue that is also great for adrenals and does not have anything that might increase blood pressure.
2 weeks is not really enough time to put on a significant amount of fat. Most of what you have gained is likely water, so don't panic.
Put down the guilt. Face the future. Start again.4 -
For 40 years I had one unsuccessful transition after another leading to 100%+ regains so at the age of 63 I decided to never diet again to lose weight after 40 years of dieting failure.
On a hunch for pain management I cut out foods containing added sweeteners and or any form of any grain in Oct 2014 while continuing to eat high calorie (2000-3000) range. Without trying I was down 50 pounds after the first year and now 5 years later I am still down 50 pounds eating all that I want when I want it which means I have NOT gone hungry for the past five years. I have not changed my WOE for the past 5 years.
When my goal became improving my general health and health markets instead of weight loss it made all the difference. Now at 68 I have better health and health markers than at the age of 38. Learning in my case that weight loss is not about the number of calories that I eat but the type of calories that I eat brought freedom from dieting to lose weight successfully for these last 5 years.
We are all different and hopefully you find a Way Of Eating that works for you. Best of successful.
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I just wanted to quickly thank everyone that has responded so far. I haven't been able to respond to all of your wonderful, insightful messages because I have become a bit busy but I just wanted to stop in to tell you that I have read most of them and I appreciate every word. I will respond and thank you accordingly as soon as I can!7
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umbramirror wrote: »Everyone's advice is so helpful. I'm finding it incredibly difficult to become comfortable with the idea of maintaining with the way I feel right now. Everything in me is telling me to restrict, to get back down to where I was. It's my mind and body's first reaction to bloat and heaviness, to try to compensate with restriction. However, I know that maintaining is what has to be done, to alleviate some of this stress, to regulate some of the dysfunction that has occurred, and to stabilize my balance that has clearly been out of balance.
Today is a challenge. I went to the gym but felt awful. One positive though is that I was able to increase my lifts a bit. 😅 I feel nauseous and bloated, so I don't have much of an interest in food. Today may have to be a lighter day before I return to maintenance level calories. One of the worst side effects besides the feeling of having a fever, chills, lethargy, etc. is that all of my clothes are tight. Putting on my work clothes made me really realize the weight (no pun intended) of what I had done.
I'm trying my best to not let this destroy me. I don't like the way I feel and I don't want this to continue. My goal is to consume more calories close to maintenance (which I will calculate) and decrease my exercise just a bit. It is more difficult than I would have ever thought!
You obviously know that much of the bloat and heaviness you're feeling is water retention. It's not fat regain, at least not most of it. There's no reason to worry or fret about water weight; it's temporary, and just part of how healthy bodies function (such as in helping your body manage changes in eating).
Restricting food is not the way to reduce that water weight. Returning to a sensible, moderate, healthy intake and staying there for a while - calmly if possible :flowerforyou: - is the way to reduce that water weight.
It's possible that you truly re-gained a pound or two, if the over-goal eating was significantly over maintenance. But to gain 10 pounds, you'd have to eat 35,000 calories above maintenance, something that would be pretty darned hard to do in a short time period. So that's not likely what's happened.
Water weight explains the bloat, the clothes tightness, the muscles not being as visible, all of that. (It doesn't explain the fever/chills; but anxiety or possible under-nutrition may.)
Eat at maintenance calories that you estimate based on the weight you want to be: It sounds like that would be 128 pounds? You're exercising lots: Be sure to fuel whatever exercise you choose to continue to do. (I agree with others that the exercise you list is really quite a lot. You might reasonably ease up on that for a week or two or until you see your doctor, and try to get some rest instead. I'd suggest the best parts to drop would be the higher-intensity parts, because those are the most fatiguing and create the most physical stress.)
I'd suggest you not start taking any unusual new supplements until after you see your doctor. I hope your doctor will be doing various blood tests, including ones for nutritional deficiencies. Some supplements can distort the results of blood tests, without actually fixing the underlying condition (just hiding it from the blood tests, in effect). That would not be helpful. I'd suggest you do you best to eat nutritiously, and at maintenance calories, until you see your doctor.
Hugs and best wishes!5 -
@Keladelphia, thank you so much for sharing your story, it really resonated with me. It seems that we are both very familar with this binging and restricting cycle, unfortunately. I am so glad that you were able to "beat the cycle" (don't really like the phrasing I chose but I hope you'll get the point) and sucessfully maintain for 4 years now. That's awesome and find it super inspiring.
The idea of a quantum scale is very interesting to me. I actually never knew that there was such a thing. I may have heard about it in passing but nothing detailed enough for me to take note of. Thank you for mentioning this. I don't think I could purchase one at the moment, but I'll definitely keep it in mind now.
Also, thank you for going into detail about your perspective in regards to how your weight fluctuated. It was really helpful for me to read. Your idea about tracking how you felt about your body day to day is gold to me. I already started to do that now that I read your message and it has me viewing this period in a different way. I wake up each morning now thinking, how do you feel today and how does that compare to yesterday? It makes me want to continue the progress of feeling better each day. I also decided to make a 2-week binge recovery goal as a beginning to a healthier lifestyle. I laid out a full 2-week period and will mark each day I've completed. At the end of each week, I made a little note for myself such as: 1 week completed! With some congratulations emojis.
@PAV8888, I completely agree that it's better to not trigger these reactions in the first place. I wish I could have told myself earlier what had to be done to avoid this but honestly, I wouldn't have listened to myself. At the time, I had a goal in mind and I wouldn't hear anything that didn't align with the path I had envisioned. I was being stubborn and lost sight of the true far reaching outcomes of my actions. Friends and family members were voicing their opinions for awhile: You're too thin. Are you sure you're eating enough? Maybe you're exercising too much? You could use a little more fat on you, couldn't you? You really should eat more and workout less. Etc. I just heard those comments and put them to the side as them simply not being aware of my situation, when truly they had been right in some ways. I'm not saying that one should always listen to the opinions of others, but always consider them honestly.
As a result of the bloating, I'm honestly having trouble eating at maintenance. Though, I have decreased my exercise and will keep to this for at least this 2-week recovery I have marked. I don't particularly want to gain weight, but if it's necessary for my health, I will do what needs to be done. Preferably, I would like to maintain as I had been but with actually consuming the appropriate amount of calories and not overtraining.6 -
@ElizabethKalmbach, thank you again for the concern but I only felt those symptoms for a portion of one day following my last binge and they were not reoccuring. If they did last for quite some time, I would definitely see a doctor. Thank you again for your advice and supplied information.
@cheryldumais, congratulations on losing 108 lbs! Wow, that's incredible. As far as your current weight goes, how do you feel about that? Do you feel like you're at a healthy weight even though you gained some since your lower point? Even though we are both the same height, we likely have very different body types, so what is healthy for me (still figuring that out obviously!) may not be the same for you. For some at our height, an even lower weight than mine is considered healthy and even higher than your current weight as well. A major factor is the body fat to lean muscle mass ratio.
Thank you so much for the support and I will definitely keep everyone posted on how I'm doing. I've been feeling much better since my first post. The water weight has gone down significantly, and I'm finally feeling lighter. My clothes are still a bit tight and I do feel larger still, but fortunately I have more energy again. I feel liberated. I probably won't weigh myself until the end of this week or next.
@tcunbeliever, thank you for all of this information, I will definitely take it into consideration. And thank you for the words of encouragement. The panic is finally starting to ease, thankfully! I really do hope I didn't gain a significant amount of fat though.2 -
@GaleHawkins, I'm happy that you found a method that works for you! That must have taken some serious dedication and perseverance. I'm still experimenting with what constitutes a balance in life and I hope I can one day find as much comfort in that as you have. Thanks for the inspiration!
@AnnPT77, You're right, I do know that most of what I likely gained isn't fat (I never weighed myself to know how much I actually did gain so this is all estimation) but I don't really know how much of it is. I really packed away the food these past 2 weeks, let me tell you! I believe I had about 8 binges in 17 days, so about half these past 2 1/2 weeks was spent binging. It's embarassing, but on the weekends, I almost wouldn't stop eating. It was almost like a contest with myself to see how much I could consume. I would be sick and in physical pain but still consume food. It was uncontrollable and terrible. I wouldn't be surprised if I did eat enough to gain 5 real pounds of fat. I did exercise as I always do each day without fail except this past Sunday. I just couldn't do it.
Thank you for the reality check though. I likely did only gain about 3 lbs or so. Ha, I say "only" but damn, that's a lot for 2 weeks. There was a point when that was a lot to lose in 1 week, but I've gained it so easily. I did decide to ease up on the exercise but I'm having trouble increasing the calories. It is difficult for me to fill my stomach after what I did to it, but I'm trying my best.
I definitely don't plan on making any radical changes. Thanks for the heads up!3 -
No, I'm not happy at my current weight. I need to get back down to at least 145. For me that's reasonable as I'm 63 so not gonna make my high school weight. My doc was happy when I was at 165 but I think I hide it well and feel I should be lower. My clothes are getting snug and I definately have excess fat. 148 I think is the highest weight I can be and fit into the BMI range of normal. Not that that's gospel but it's a good place to start. I think I'm beginning to see where the extra weight is coming from as I have started to really keep track of my tastes, licks and bites. :-) It looks like I've been eating more than I thought. 1400 calories add up really fast and I was kind of ignoring all the little extras, lol. I was probably eating more like 1600 or more. So I am back on track but it's gonna take a while to get back down. On the upside I've done it before so I know what it takes.7
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I think you know, in your heart, what happened and what you need to do.
Based on what you've written (and my personal ED battle), it seems that, somewhere during your year and a half journey, your habit of restricting and intense working out became a compulsion. And it was serving you well while you were still losing. But now that you're in maintenance, it's a problem.
I agree that you might need professional help to repair your relationship with food. But I don't think you're at the mental health stage yet. I think a RD might be your best ally at this point. I don't think you've ventured all the way into orthorexia, but a RD can teach you how to break the restriction/binge cycle. Good luck to you 💖5 -
cheryldumais wrote: »No, I'm not happy at my current weight. I need to get back down to at least 145. For me that's reasonable as I'm 63 so not gonna make my high school weight. My doc was happy when I was at 165 but I think I hide it well and feel I should be lower. My clothes are getting snug and I definately have excess fat. 148 I think is the highest weight I can be and fit into the BMI range of normal. Not that that's gospel but it's a good place to start. I think I'm beginning to see where the extra weight is coming from as I have started to really keep track of my tastes, licks and bites. :-) It looks like I've been eating more than I thought. 1400 calories add up really fast and I was kind of ignoring all the little extras, lol. I was probably eating more like 1600 or more. So I am back on track but it's gonna take a while to get back down. On the upside I've done it before so I know what it takes.
Oh... I'm sorry to hear that you're not happy currently with your weight. Hey, but at least we're both back on track! Doesn't it feel great to know that each action you take towards your goal is bringing you one step closer there and not backwards? I love knowing that since I have gotten back on track, there is nothing that will be making the situation worse in terms of my efforts. I will not gain weight or have my clothes be more snug than they are right now, and each day that passes they will fit better and better.I think you know, in your heart, what happened and what you need to do.
Based on what you've written (and my personal ED battle), it seems that, somewhere during your year and a half journey, your habit of restricting and intense working out became a compulsion. And it was serving you well while you were still losing. But now that you're in maintenance, it's a problem.
I agree that you might need professional help to repair your relationship with food. But I don't think you're at the mental health stage yet. I think a RD might be your best ally at this point. I don't think you've ventured all the way into orthorexia, but a RD can teach you how to break the restriction/binge cycle. Good luck to you 💖
I do know, and yes, you're right. This is exactly what happened and I'm still struggling with it. I have decreased the exercise and am working on eating more without binging. I find that because I get triggered into binging by eating more and also by eating too little, I have to find a balance right now. I know it sounds a bit ridiculous, but I'm trying to find a place where I'm neither too hungry or too full. That seems to be the happy non-binge place.
Working with an RD would be awesome if I had the means. Maybe at some point in the future! For now, I'll keep trying to repair my relationship with food on my own, the help of everyone on MFP, and my partner. I was going to add my family but they definitely don't help!
Thank you for the support.8 -
We've been DMing so you know my opinion on many of these things!
But for others: I had an eating disorder last year (bulimia primarily), which was not super severe but impacted me enough I went to therapy at the eating disorder clinic for a year. I kept being too restrictive (but like umbra it was like 1700 calories) combined with high exercise. My TDEE is at least 2200, and it was getting up to 2800 or 3000 on heavy exercise days. I'd binge about once a week.
As soon as I started eating 2200 calories consistently? I had a brief period of intense hunger and then my appetite calmed down and I stopped binging. I also didn't let anything be off limits, which helped with the all or nothing thinking. Had a donut? So what, I had a donut. Doesn't mean I need to eat 6 donuts. My weight has stayed steady. I only had 2 bulimia slipups since about April, and both were due to specific triggers I know are hard for me (meals out with strangers in a professional context).
I now do semi-structured intuitive eating. Sometimes I track for a few days or weeks, then I don't track for a few days or weeks. It just depends on how I'm feeling. Sometimes I track breakfast and lunch and not dinner. I eat plenty of nutrient dense food but don't stress about having 'fun' food. If I feel I'm getting too unstructured or 'snacky,' I track again for a few days. But then if I realise I'm trying to go back to eating only 1700 calories, I stop logging to snap myself out of it.
I've tried to get back into listening to my body and my appetite. I keep a vague eye on my weight. Again sometimes I weigh every day for a week, other times I don't weigh for two weeks. I ask myself if it's helpful or harmful for me to do it that day.
That doesn't work for everyone, but for me it was the best way to stop the eating disorder thoughts from taking over, and for not letting things slide to enough weight gain that I feel pressured to restrict again and continue the cycle.12
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