Hunting

I wonder: If you disagree about hunting, do you have an opinion about Wind Energy?

aokoye wrote: »

CSARdiver wrote: »

I've likely spent the majority of my life in the outdoors and while hiking, camping, kayaking, etc. have brought me close to nature, but none of this came close to hunting. Hunting is the active embrace of good management and conservation.

There's a level of executive thought taking place when you commit to a physical ritual of action, so while it may be enjoyable to eat well prepared food, there is something better about cooking food yourself. Even more so if you harvest your own food and/or grow your own vegetables.

If I had any desire to shoot a gun and/or the resources to go about doing so then I'd be up for personally going hunting. That said, I personally wouldn't know where to start with fishing (much to the disbelief of a few of my friends), let alone hunting. It's also not a big priority (and then there's the freezer space if it was large game). Instead I try to support local farmers (both in terms of meat and produce), buy locally caught fish when I can afford to, and I enjoy growing my own produce. I also have various hobbies that involve me being outside a lot, though I wouldn't ever eat fish out of the river that I row on.

One of the greatest joys as a hunter (or anyone who loves what they do) is to introduce someone into their sport. I've been a firearms instructor for 30 years now and look forward to new shooters every session.

I've always wanted to learn to fly fish. One of our elders was a master and it was art watching him work a river.

I've recently started hiking in a new place, noticed the 2019 Deer Management Plan on their website, and thought of this thread.

While the main thrust of this article is about reducing affects of deer overpopulation on "forests, water resources, or plant growth on department-owned land," deer overpopulation is also very bad for the deer, as there is not enough food for them in the winter. Deer population used to be kept in check by natural predators, which humans have mostly eliminated in the places I've lived.

https://friendsofthebluehills.org/deer2019/

Barbara Kingsolver writes eloquently about the importance of (animal) predators in a balanced ecosystem in Prodigal Summer.

i kinda a mire people who hunt. as long as it's for food. if i had to i'd be vegetarian and i would inspect a lot of people would be.

JeromeBarry1 wrote: »

aokoye wrote: »

JeromeBarry1 wrote: »

I wonder: If you disagree about hunting, do you have an opinion about Wind Energy?

I'll preface this with saying that I don't have any problems with ethical hunting. Which is to say, I have no problem with what everyone who hunts or who has talked about people they know who hunt are doing.

Now that that's out of the way, are you referring to the potential dangers to birds that come with wind energy (and apparently solar energy - though that's through a different mechanism)?

Yes. I'm just curious at the Venn intersection of "against hunting" and "for wind energy".

Except wind energy probably reduces bird deaths when all factors considered. Birds have very sensitive lungs, removing the air pollution from coal power and replacing it with wind should protect more birds on the balance.

EveTeece963 wrote: »

Saw this old thread and now I want to speak out. About hunting: I have a lot of concerns for this topic. My dad was a hunter and he passed away not too long ago. I used to hunt with him, but I didn't really like it. For me it was more an obligation or something like that. The point is - now I own my old man's rifle and I don't know what to do with it. Should I start to hunt too or should I sell this rifle? Right now it needs some repair. For example, it needs a new scope. I have found a review of scopes on one site and I will buy one of it. But after that... I don't know. My dad was a hunter, his dad was a hunter. It's like hunter dynasty. And I don't know if I'm the one who need to break a circle. Maybe yes, maybe no.

You shouldn't hunt out of obligation to anyone. If you have a family member who does enjoy it, maybe it would be good to sell or give them them rifle. Otherwise, find a reputable store that can buy the rifle so that it can be transferred responsibly.

I have some very ambivilant feelings regarding hunting. I live in the UK and of an age to have been brought up with Fox hunting and Deer hunting being not only the norm but tradition. Seeing the horses and hounds out on boxing day was something that used to stir my British blood. I also used to work at a hunters stable as a young girl tending and riding the horses which I loved even though I never rode to the hunt.

Of course all that kind of tradition is being subsumed and changed now with the rise of anti hunt demonstrations and the law being brought in that hunts have to have apply for permits or they can only do drag hunting etc. I do understand the sentiments of the anti hunt lobby I care about animals as well but on the other hand I am a country girl and brought up with the understanding that animal populations can get out of control and farmers have livestock and crops to protect.

A friend of mine lives on Exmoor and that has a very high deer population. He was explaining to my husband how if they did not control the population by eliminating the old, sick, weak animals it reduces the over all health of the herd. Once a stag has reached a certain age he has fathered so many offspring to that particular herd that if a new stag is not able to take over the gene pool becomes very small so sometimes they have to take out the old stag to give a younger one from a different herd the chance to come in and enlarge and strengthen the gene pool. This is not how most people see stag/deer hunting they just see a magnificent animal being killed for fun but that is not the case.

My ambivilance comes because I (like so many others) despised big game hunters who kill exotics for trophies.

Then I saw a programme with Stacey Dooley who went to a game farm in Africa and I realised that I was having a knee jerk reaction and had no idea of what actually went on there. Although I still personally don't see the point in killing a lion, I can also now see that those game reserves actually preserve and add to the animal population in that area, they control it, keep it healthy and also use the meat in the hotel and donate meat to schools and various institutions in the area that are not be able to afford to buy meat. Not to mention bringing in money to the area and employing local people in the hotel complex/spa and out on the reserve.

Hunting is a very polarising subject and I guess it always will be. But sometimes there is more to the picture than initially meets the eye.

manderson27 wrote: »

I have some very ambivilant feelings regarding hunting. I live in the UK and of an age to have been brought up with Fox hunting and Deer hunting being not only the norm but tradition. Seeing the horses and hounds out on boxing day was something that used to stir my British blood. I also used to work at a hunters stable as a young girl tending and riding the horses which I loved even though I never rode to the hunt.

Of course all that kind of tradition is being subsumed and changed now with the rise of anti hunt demonstrations and the law being brought in that hunts have to have apply for permits or they can only do drag hunting etc. I do understand the sentiments of the anti hunt lobby I care about animals as well but on the other hand I am a country girl and brought up with the understanding that animal populations can get out of control and farmers have livestock and crops to protect.

A friend of mine lives on Exmoor and that has a very high deer population. He was explaining to my husband how if they did not control the population by eliminating the old, sick, weak animals it reduces the over all health of the herd. Once a stag has reached a certain age he has fathered so many offspring to that particular herd that if a new stag is not able to take over the gene pool becomes very small so sometimes they have to take out the old stag to give a younger one from a different herd the chance to come in and enlarge and strengthen the gene pool. This is not how most people see stag/deer hunting they just see a magnificent animal being killed for fun but that is not the case.

My ambivilance comes because I (like so many others) despised big game hunters who kill exotics for trophies.

Then I saw a programme with Stacey Dooley who went to a game farm in Africa and I realised that I was having a knee jerk reaction and had no idea of what actually went on there. Although I still personally don't see the point in killing a lion, I can also now see that those game reserves actually preserve and add to the animal population in that area, they control it, keep it healthy and also use the meat in the hotel and donate meat to schools and various institutions in the area that are not be able to afford to buy meat. Not to mention bringing in money to the area and employing local people in the hotel complex/spa and out on the reserve.

Hunting is a very polarising subject and I guess it always will be. But sometimes there is more to the picture than initially meets the eye.

Would be interested in your take on the Dave Carrie shooting videos on youtube that highlight driven bird shooting on various UK estates. Understanding that the cost of these shooting days is a factor for many, one of the major points made in his video is that this lifestyle is what allows the estates to continue habitat management while supplying a highly nutritious food source to both local and distant restaurants, etc.

I went out deer hunting this last fall. I went kinda late though and I was only able to go out a couple times, so I didn't see anything unfortunately. Thankfully the rest of my family all filled their tags, and since I helped skin and process (we do it all ourselves) they hooked me up with quite a bit of venison.

Djproulx wrote: »

manderson27 wrote: »

I have some very ambivilant feelings regarding hunting. I live in the UK and of an age to have been brought up with Fox hunting and Deer hunting being not only the norm but tradition. Seeing the horses and hounds out on boxing day was something that used to stir my British blood. I also used to work at a hunters stable as a young girl tending and riding the horses which I loved even though I never rode to the hunt.

Of course all that kind of tradition is being subsumed and changed now with the rise of anti hunt demonstrations and the law being brought in that hunts have to have apply for permits or they can only do drag hunting etc. I do understand the sentiments of the anti hunt lobby I care about animals as well but on the other hand I am a country girl and brought up with the understanding that animal populations can get out of control and farmers have livestock and crops to protect.

A friend of mine lives on Exmoor and that has a very high deer population. He was explaining to my husband how if they did not control the population by eliminating the old, sick, weak animals it reduces the over all health of the herd. Once a stag has reached a certain age he has fathered so many offspring to that particular herd that if a new stag is not able to take over the gene pool becomes very small so sometimes they have to take out the old stag to give a younger one from a different herd the chance to come in and enlarge and strengthen the gene pool. This is not how most people see stag/deer hunting they just see a magnificent animal being killed for fun but that is not the case.

My ambivilance comes because I (like so many others) despised big game hunters who kill exotics for trophies.

Then I saw a programme with Stacey Dooley who went to a game farm in Africa and I realised that I was having a knee jerk reaction and had no idea of what actually went on there. Although I still personally don't see the point in killing a lion, I can also now see that those game reserves actually preserve and add to the animal population in that area, they control it, keep it healthy and also use the meat in the hotel and donate meat to schools and various institutions in the area that are not be able to afford to buy meat. Not to mention bringing in money to the area and employing local people in the hotel complex/spa and out on the reserve.

Hunting is a very polarising subject and I guess it always will be. But sometimes there is more to the picture than initially meets the eye.

Would be interested in your take on the Dave Carrie shooting videos on youtube that highlight driven bird shooting on various UK estates. Understanding that the cost of these shooting days is a factor for many, one of the major points made in his video is that this lifestyle is what allows the estates to continue habitat management while supplying a highly nutritious food source to both local and distant restaurants, etc.

I don't know much about hunting but I am sure Game keepers everywhere will confirm that without the raising of these birds for the shoot specific kinds of habitats would probably not be maintained in the same way.

The large estates always need something to help bring money in to maintain them. Longleat for example went down the Safari Park route many years ago. Other estates are run by institutions like the National Trust or British Heritage who maintain them by charging visitors and donations. The moors such as Exmoor and Dartmoor are also similarly supported by the big institutions but also by the farmers and estate owners, no doubt subsidised by the hunting shooting and fishing fraternity. Any surplus meat is certainly bought by local butchers and restaraunts in the area.

There are several areas near where I live that are maintained for Pheasants and smaller game birds. We often hear the sound of shotguns during the season. Lovely large woodlands edged with meadows.

On the whole I think the UK has a reasonable balance when it comes to it's wildlife and maintaining habitat. People sometimes really don't understand how the countryside works. Everything needs to be kept in balance and sometimes this means culling deer/fox/rabbits etc. Raising birds specifically to kill them may seem harsh but we do the same with chickens/turkey/ducks. The game birds live a wild, free range life so better off than a lot of domestic bred fowl.

There is of course a huge wave of controversy surrounding hunting over here. People have a lot of "feels" for animals and they are gaining ground. Game keepers and masters of the hunt know to keep quiet about how they actually maintain the animals on the estate or risk the wrath of the animal rights activists in one form or another. There have even been death threats, physical attacks and vandalism to property by animal rights activisits on people who are just trying to make a living.

Djproulx wrote: »

manderson27 wrote: »

Djproulx wrote: »

manderson27 wrote: »

I have some very ambivilant feelings regarding hunting. I live in the UK and of an age to have been brought up with Fox hunting and Deer hunting being not only the norm but tradition. Seeing the horses and hounds out on boxing day was something that used to stir my British blood. I also used to work at a hunters stable as a young girl tending and riding the horses which I loved even though I never rode to the hunt.

Of course all that kind of tradition is being subsumed and changed now with the rise of anti hunt demonstrations and the law being brought in that hunts have to have apply for permits or they can only do drag hunting etc. I do understand the sentiments of the anti hunt lobby I care about animals as well but on the other hand I am a country girl and brought up with the understanding that animal populations can get out of control and farmers have livestock and crops to protect.

A friend of mine lives on Exmoor and that has a very high deer population. He was explaining to my husband how if they did not control the population by eliminating the old, sick, weak animals it reduces the over all health of the herd. Once a stag has reached a certain age he has fathered so many offspring to that particular herd that if a new stag is not able to take over the gene pool becomes very small so sometimes they have to take out the old stag to give a younger one from a different herd the chance to come in and enlarge and strengthen the gene pool. This is not how most people see stag/deer hunting they just see a magnificent animal being killed for fun but that is not the case.

My ambivilance comes because I (like so many others) despised big game hunters who kill exotics for trophies.

Then I saw a programme with Stacey Dooley who went to a game farm in Africa and I realised that I was having a knee jerk reaction and had no idea of what actually went on there. Although I still personally don't see the point in killing a lion, I can also now see that those game reserves actually preserve and add to the animal population in that area, they control it, keep it healthy and also use the meat in the hotel and donate meat to schools and various institutions in the area that are not be able to afford to buy meat. Not to mention bringing in money to the area and employing local people in the hotel complex/spa and out on the reserve.

Hunting is a very polarising subject and I guess it always will be. But sometimes there is more to the picture than initially meets the eye.

Would be interested in your take on the Dave Carrie shooting videos on youtube that highlight driven bird shooting on various UK estates. Understanding that the cost of these shooting days is a factor for many, one of the major points made in his video is that this lifestyle is what allows the estates to continue habitat management while supplying a highly nutritious food source to both local and distant restaurants, etc.

I don't know much about hunting but I am sure Game keepers everywhere will confirm that without the raising of these birds for the shoot specific kinds of habitats would probably not be maintained in the same way.

The large estates always need something to help bring money in to maintain them. Longleat for example went down the Safari Park route many years ago. Other estates are run by institutions like the National Trust or British Heritage who maintain them by charging visitors and donations. The moors such as Exmoor and Dartmoor are also similarly supported by the big institutions but also by the farmers and estate owners, no doubt subsidised by the hunting shooting and fishing fraternity. Any surplus meat is certainly bought by local butchers and restaraunts in the area.

There are several areas near where I live that are maintained for Pheasants and smaller game birds. We often hear the sound of shotguns during the season. Lovely large woodlands edged with meadows.

On the whole I think the UK has a reasonable balance when it comes to it's wildlife and maintaining habitat. People sometimes really don't understand how the countryside works. Everything needs to be kept in balance and sometimes this means culling deer/fox/rabbits etc. Raising birds specifically to kill them may seem harsh but we do the same with chickens/turkey/ducks. The game birds live a wild, free range life so better off than a lot of domestic bred fowl.

There is of course a huge wave of controversy surrounding hunting over here. People have a lot of "feels" for animals and they are gaining ground. Game keepers and masters of the hunt know to keep quiet about how they actually maintain the animals on the estate or risk the wrath of the animal rights activists in one form or another. There have even been death threats, physical attacks and vandalism to property by animal rights activisits on people who are just trying to make a living.

Thanks for the explanation. That seems to be in line with what I've heard from friends here in the US who've traveled to the UK to shoot driven pheasants. To me, the other issue is that without the large estates and gamekeepers managing habitat and wildlife supplemented by the sporting revenue, that the ecosystem would degrade and many species, both game and nongame, would suffer. I could be mistaken, but I don't believe the anti hunting activists have a plan to help the ecosystem in the absence of scientific management by gamekeepers and estate owners.

The eco system would certainly change. People forget that these large tracts of land, moors, wetlands, woodlands and waterways have all been "managed" for centuries. So if they stopped being "managed" and were just allowed to do their own thing, then all kinds of plants and animals could invade and completely take over and drive the native wildlife out. Grey Squirrels are a prime example, ousting the UK's red squirrels from all but the remotest parts of the country.

We already have rivers full of weed that it is costing a fortune and hundreds of volunteers to remove it to keep the trout streams flowing.

Buildings are being damaged by uncontrolled Japanese Knotweed, you can't sell a house if it has this in the garden, it has to br professionally killed and removed.

We are busy planting old style meadows to try and bring back the native insect pollinators. Resuming dredging in our wetlands to help prevent flooding. Cleaning up waterways to bring back native species of fish. We are in fact having to revert to old style managing of habitats to ensure a future for our native wildlife and this will include culling some species to keep the balance.

Understanding how the environment works is key to keeping it flourishing. So uncontrolled nature is not necassarily the best thing for the environment if you want to keep your native species of flora and fauna.

Besides if we didn't have this kind of management the developers would just move in and buy everything up and build all over it.