Combining "intuitive eating" with MFP?
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thatATLgirl
Posts: 60 Member
Hi guys- after two years of weight gain, I am back.
I have been working with an “intuitive eating" coach for a few months and have gotten to the bottom of some of the “why” behind my emotional eating.
Some of the things I've learned:
1. My love for particular foods, like tortilla chips, goes back to childhood.
2. Loneliness and acute stress are triggers for me for emotional eating.
3. If I stop exercising, I feel like crap, and want to eat more.
4. My thinking is very black-and-white... I don't have to be perfect all the time.
5. Stopping automatic negative thoughts like "my stomach is UGLY" and changing that thought to "this is a HUMAN stomach."
However, I’ve gained 15lb since starting that program, and I've hit my so-called rock bottom. At 31, I'm now 5'5" and about 204lb.
So... I want to use MFP and combine it with the principles of IE. The IE folks would tell me I’m going against IE by doing calorie counting. But anyone else had success doing both?
I have been working with an “intuitive eating" coach for a few months and have gotten to the bottom of some of the “why” behind my emotional eating.
Some of the things I've learned:
1. My love for particular foods, like tortilla chips, goes back to childhood.
2. Loneliness and acute stress are triggers for me for emotional eating.
3. If I stop exercising, I feel like crap, and want to eat more.
4. My thinking is very black-and-white... I don't have to be perfect all the time.
5. Stopping automatic negative thoughts like "my stomach is UGLY" and changing that thought to "this is a HUMAN stomach."
However, I’ve gained 15lb since starting that program, and I've hit my so-called rock bottom. At 31, I'm now 5'5" and about 204lb.
So... I want to use MFP and combine it with the principles of IE. The IE folks would tell me I’m going against IE by doing calorie counting. But anyone else had success doing both?
7
Replies
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I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. One can IE and track what they eat. I have been experimenting with this myself. Some days I track, others I do not. Or, I track and if I get full I stop eating. If I am hungrier, I eat more. Finding your balance is key. I actually lost a lot of weight using IE. Then switched to counting. I think I responded to this already.7
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I eat intuitively on-and-off, interspersed with occasional calorie counting.
I'm curious, though; why have you chosen to pursue intuitive eating? Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic way of life... but intuitive eating is not a weight loss method.
Intuitive eating, at its core, is a method of approaching food and health in a way that focuses on how you feel internally, focusing on your internal hunger and fullness cues. It does not rely on external rules about how to eat. Because of this, it's a wonderful way to help heal your relationship with food if you have a history of struggling through extremely restrictive diets, or have suffered with eating disorders, or struggle with emotional eating. However - again - it is not a weight loss method. Its aim is to help restore a more instinctive relationship with food. Its focus is not on helping you to lose weight. (I would recommend reading the Intuitive Eating book by Evelyn Tribole and Elyse Resch, if you haven't already).
Fundamentally, in order to lose weight, you need to be in a calorie deficit. Intuitive eating does not guarantee this.
If you want to lose weight, and you are not opposed to calorie counting, I'd say go for it. I think intuitive eating has helped you out plenty in helping you to understand your emotional eating, but it's not putting you in a calorie deficit. If you simply logged everything you eat in a day, whilst eating intuitively, it might show you where in your diet you're going wrong.17 -
honestly I think intuitive eating and calorie counting are as near to mutually exclusive as you can get. You're either:
(a) not counting calories
or
(b) counting calories
It's actually quite binary when you think about it - which is why your IE person is telling you they don't fit together.
You've just tried not counting calories, and it hasn't gotten you where you want to be. Perhaps it is time for a few weeks of strict calorie counting, to see where it leads. You are not beholden to your intuitive eating coach, or anyone else. You can do what you want and see how it goes, and then reengage with the IE person as it suits your needs.
I tried IE way back and the results were DISASTROUS. I gained a huge amount of weight. Some of us were not designed for that style of eating. I have friends who can eat 5 chips, dip a couple of them in queso, and then just ... stop nibbling until their (light) dinner arrives, after which they order no desert. I am not like that. I am either "on plan" or off, and "on plan" for me means counting every calorie and exerting self-discipline to stop when the Diary says to stop. That is the only thing that has ever worked for me, and I know I'm far from alone in that. It sounds like you're more toward this camp than the intuitive eating camp. You will only find out by doing a phase of calorie counting and seeing where it gets you.
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IE and calorie counting do not go together.
You can't follow the principles of IE and count calories. It doesn't work. What happens if you are hungry, but you have had all your calories? Which wins? The diet... or respecting your hunger?6 -
It sounds like you’ve gained a lot of insights about yourself through IE. But it’s not serving your goal of losing weight. Adding the accountability of tracking calories might help you. I wouldn’t worry about what others think. You get to define your own journey.
You might consider setting your calorie goal to maintenance and tracking for a few weeks before adding a small deficit to find a way of eating that supports your goals at a slow loss rate. I find that tracking my calories often makes me pause and consider if I want to use my calories to splurge on a treat food instead of a lower calorie choice. (Sometimes the answer is yes!). Knowing my maintenance calories helps me know that I can choose to eat at maintenance on hungrier days or for planned social events.9 -
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I've done it before. I've tracked some days not others, some meals, some food items, protein only (just main sources). I've also used MFP as a food diary and logged food without using a scale. Right now I am in a deficit but not entering anything, sometimes I do search items from fast food places just out of curiosity before I order. It all works for me to help me reach my goals.4
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psychod787 wrote: »
Lamb and peanut butter can go together, but that is not the right analogy for IE and calorie counting.
Does eating a leg of lamb go together with veganism? No. Because they are direct opposites.7 -
I do IE when I am on vacation and/or eating out, and also when I get fed up with the weighing and logging and I need to take a break. It has worked for me.
In maintenance for over 9 years gave a good idea about portion control and what works for me or not. I am not an emotional or binge eater and I have never been obese or overweight; I just needed to lose few lbs and get a better idea about my eating choices.
However, it seems that it doesn't work for the OP or for other people posting in this thread. So it is time for @ thatATLgirl to reconsider. But it doesn't' mean that both approaches can't be used successfully by others (like as @psychod787, @sardelsa, @ axsxmxa) on occasions.
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I think calorie counting is great training/education to enhance and improve the chances of successful mindful eating - but intuitive eating and calorie counting, sorry I just don't see the overlap.
At 5'5" and 204lbs I think calorie counting is far more likely to be helpful compared to intuitive eating. Maybe park that as a future ambition when/if you get to a healthy weight?
I can see it's been helpful to understand your non-hunger/non-actual need drivers to eat but I'd just see that as educational too and not a likely path to successful weight loss.12 -
I think calorie counting is great training/education to enhance and improve the chances of successful mindful eating - but intuitive eating and calorie counting, sorry I just don't see the overlap.
At 5'5" and 204lbs I think calorie counting is far more likely to be helpful compared to intuitive eating. Maybe park that as a future ambition when/if you get to a healthy weight?
I can see it's been helpful to understand your non-hunger/non-actual need drivers to eat but I'd just see that as educational too and not a likely path to successful weight loss.
ok sir, here is my story. 400lbs..... decided one day to cut out the "junk", I personally hate that word now, but thats how I viewed things then. Ditched the Chips, Soda, Bread, Cookies,ect...... except on rare occasions. Potatoes, Rice, Whole grain Pasta, leaner meets, vegetables, fruit. Quit going out as much once every 2 weeks vs 3-4 times a week. Started walking a little. I ate to hunger and satiety. I didn't count a dang thing. Lost 75lbs in a year. Didn't start calorie counting until 325lbs. Actually massively underrate because I refused to go over my calories. Thpugh, was not really ever hungry until I dropped below 200lbs. I didn't know a dang thing about nutrition. No idea that Leucine might have effects on the set range, or the role of fiber, or the role of monounsaturated fats effects. I "think" the father on ventures outside of the affluent diet... IE Energy dense, hyper palatable, maybe ultra processed. The more someone can eat intuitively. JMHO8 -
IE and calorie counting do not go together.
You can't follow the principles of IE and count calories. It doesn't work. What happens if you are hungry, but you have had all your calories? Which wins? The diet... or respecting your hunger?
You eat something, but you choose a low calorie option that will satiate your hunger but not destroy your calorie goal. Then either you accept that you didn't do quite as well as you had hoped that day, or you adjsut a bit the following day to try to maintain you deficit for a week.
There should be some respect paid towards hunger cues while calorie counting. If you are constantly hitting your goal and still hungry, than something needs to change.
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I’m kind of confused about saying the two aren’t compatible. I’m not an expert on either, but feel like I practice both.
For the most part I eat to my calorie goal, but there are days that I’m just not hungry...I don’t force myself to eat until I make my minimum. Then there are days where I am ravenous I eat until I’m satiated. These two extremes are rarely in the same week. I track the calories on all of my days. I haven’t chucked out the potato chips in favor for an all kale diet.
I eat mostly nutritionallly sound food, but nothing that is going to get me on the cover “super foods weekly”.
To me, both IE and calorie counting are probably the two most compatible schools of thought as long as there is a healthy and balanced approach to both.4 -
@psychod787psychod787 wrote: »I think calorie counting is great training/education to enhance and improve the chances of successful mindful eating - but intuitive eating and calorie counting, sorry I just don't see the overlap.
At 5'5" and 204lbs I think calorie counting is far more likely to be helpful compared to intuitive eating. Maybe park that as a future ambition when/if you get to a healthy weight?
I can see it's been helpful to understand your non-hunger/non-actual need drivers to eat but I'd just see that as educational too and not a likely path to successful weight loss.
ok sir, here is my story. 400lbs..... decided one day to cut out the "junk", I personally hate that word now, but thats how I viewed things then. Ditched the Chips, Soda, Bread, Cookies,ect...... except on rare occasions. Potatoes, Rice, Whole grain Pasta, leaner meets, vegetables, fruit. Quit going out as much once every 2 weeks vs 3-4 times a week. Started walking a little. I ate to hunger and satiety. I didn't count a dang thing. Lost 75lbs in a year. Didn't start calorie counting until 325lbs. Actually massively underrate because I refused to go over my calories. Thpugh, was not really ever hungry until I dropped below 200lbs. I didn't know a dang thing about nutrition. No idea that Leucine might have effects on the set range, or the role of fiber, or the role of monounsaturated fats effects. I "think" the father on ventures outside of the affluent diet... IE Energy dense, hyper palatable, maybe ultra processed. The more someone can eat intuitively. JMHO
Sorry but not quite seeing the point you are making?
Are there some missing words in the sentence "The more someone can eat intuitively."?
5 -
@psychod787psychod787 wrote: »I think calorie counting is great training/education to enhance and improve the chances of successful mindful eating - but intuitive eating and calorie counting, sorry I just don't see the overlap.
At 5'5" and 204lbs I think calorie counting is far more likely to be helpful compared to intuitive eating. Maybe park that as a future ambition when/if you get to a healthy weight?
I can see it's been helpful to understand your non-hunger/non-actual need drivers to eat but I'd just see that as educational too and not a likely path to successful weight loss.
ok sir, here is my story. 400lbs..... decided one day to cut out the "junk", I personally hate that word now, but thats how I viewed things then. Ditched the Chips, Soda, Bread, Cookies,ect...... except on rare occasions. Potatoes, Rice, Whole grain Pasta, leaner meets, vegetables, fruit. Quit going out as much once every 2 weeks vs 3-4 times a week. Started walking a little. I ate to hunger and satiety. I didn't count a dang thing. Lost 75lbs in a year. Didn't start calorie counting until 325lbs. Actually massively underrate because I refused to go over my calories. Thpugh, was not really ever hungry until I dropped below 200lbs. I didn't know a dang thing about nutrition. No idea that Leucine might have effects on the set range, or the role of fiber, or the role of monounsaturated fats effects. I "think" the father on ventures outside of the affluent diet... IE Energy dense, hyper palatable, maybe ultra processed. The more someone can eat intuitively. JMHO
Sorry but not quite seeing the point you are making?
Are there some missing words in the sentence "The more someone can eat intuitively."?
I got nothing.... 1 -
I'm not sure that I understand what people are talking about in regards to intuitive eating.
I'm logging my food, but for me, a vital part of what I'm doing is ensuring that I'm still enjoying eating. I want to make sure that I'm eating when I'm hungry and that I'm eating foods that I like. Logging my food is a way of gathering information for me: I don't want to be eating food that I don't understand (hidden sodium, hidden calories, wonky nutrient profile, etc). Logging my food has been such a gift because it has enabled me to figure out how to eat foods that make me full, taste good, and work better for me as opposed to eating foods that I don't know what they do to me and I quickly become hungry again and don't taste any better than foods that would work better for me.6 -
@psychod787psychod787 wrote: »I think calorie counting is great training/education to enhance and improve the chances of successful mindful eating - but intuitive eating and calorie counting, sorry I just don't see the overlap.
At 5'5" and 204lbs I think calorie counting is far more likely to be helpful compared to intuitive eating. Maybe park that as a future ambition when/if you get to a healthy weight?
I can see it's been helpful to understand your non-hunger/non-actual need drivers to eat but I'd just see that as educational too and not a likely path to successful weight loss.
ok sir, here is my story. 400lbs..... decided one day to cut out the "junk", I personally hate that word now, but thats how I viewed things then. Ditched the Chips, Soda, Bread, Cookies,ect...... except on rare occasions. Potatoes, Rice, Whole grain Pasta, leaner meets, vegetables, fruit. Quit going out as much once every 2 weeks vs 3-4 times a week. Started walking a little. I ate to hunger and satiety. I didn't count a dang thing. Lost 75lbs in a year. Didn't start calorie counting until 325lbs. Actually massively underrate because I refused to go over my calories. Thpugh, was not really ever hungry until I dropped below 200lbs. I didn't know a dang thing about nutrition. No idea that Leucine might have effects on the set range, or the role of fiber, or the role of monounsaturated fats effects. I "think" the father on ventures outside of the affluent diet... IE Energy dense, hyper palatable, maybe ultra processed. The more someone can eat intuitively. JMHO
Sorry but not quite seeing the point you are making?
Are there some missing words in the sentence "The more someone can eat intuitively."?
Obviously not the original author, but I think the last sentence was supposed to be one sentence, not two. So maybe a typo rather than an incomplete thought? Maybe it is meant to be "... the farther one ventures outside of the affluent diet...IE energy dense, hyper palatable, maybe ultra-processed, the more one can eat intuitively."
Just my guess at what previous poster meant!4 -
PrismaticPhoenix wrote: »I'm not sure that I understand what people are talking about in regards to intuitive eating.
I'm logging my food, but for me, a vital part of what I'm doing is ensuring that I'm still enjoying eating. I want to make sure that I'm eating when I'm hungry and that I'm eating foods that I like. Logging my food is a way of gathering information for me: I don't want to be eating food that I don't understand (hidden sodium, hidden calories, wonky nutrient profile, etc). Logging my food has been such a gift because it has enabled me to figure out how to eat foods that make me full, taste good, and work better for me as opposed to eating foods that I don't know what they do to me and I quickly become hungry again and don't taste any better than foods that would work better for me.
It does seem people are using the phrase "intuitive eating" in completely different and indeed contradictory ways.
To me what you describe is a million miles away from intuitive eating using a dictionary definition of intuitive as "based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive".
You are consciously thinking about your food choices and making those choices based on different criteria, to me that's mindful eating not instinctive eating. Thinking not feeling.7 -
PrismaticPhoenix wrote: »I'm not sure that I understand what people are talking about in regards to intuitive eating.
I'm logging my food, but for me, a vital part of what I'm doing is ensuring that I'm still enjoying eating. I want to make sure that I'm eating when I'm hungry and that I'm eating foods that I like. Logging my food is a way of gathering information for me: I don't want to be eating food that I don't understand (hidden sodium, hidden calories, wonky nutrient profile, etc). Logging my food has been such a gift because it has enabled me to figure out how to eat foods that make me full, taste good, and work better for me as opposed to eating foods that I don't know what they do to me and I quickly become hungry again and don't taste any better than foods that would work better for me.
It does seem people are using the phrase "intuitive eating" in completely different and indeed contradictory ways.
To me what you describe is a million miles away from intuitive eating using a dictionary definition of intuitive as "based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive".
You are consciously thinking about your food choices and making those choices based on different criteria, to me that's mindful eating not instinctive eating. Thinking not feeling.
Fair enough.......2 -
PrismaticPhoenix wrote: »I'm not sure that I understand what people are talking about in regards to intuitive eating.
I'm logging my food, but for me, a vital part of what I'm doing is ensuring that I'm still enjoying eating. I want to make sure that I'm eating when I'm hungry and that I'm eating foods that I like. Logging my food is a way of gathering information for me: I don't want to be eating food that I don't understand (hidden sodium, hidden calories, wonky nutrient profile, etc). Logging my food has been such a gift because it has enabled me to figure out how to eat foods that make me full, taste good, and work better for me as opposed to eating foods that I don't know what they do to me and I quickly become hungry again and don't taste any better than foods that would work better for me.
It does seem people are using the phrase "intuitive eating" in completely different and indeed contradictory ways.
To me what you describe is a million miles away from intuitive eating using a dictionary definition of intuitive as "based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive".
You are consciously thinking about your food choices and making those choices based on different criteria, to me that's mindful eating not instinctive eating. Thinking not feeling.
As I said I’m not an expert, but I looked it up and the 10 principles sound pretty close to what the common advice is here. https://www.intuitiveeating.org/10-principles-of-intuitive-eating/
Of course the application can be where things start to split, but people skew calorie counting all the time here,
I guess my stance is they can compliment each other, if moderation and common sense are applied.0
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