Progressive Lifting Programs

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  • jseams1234
    jseams1234 Posts: 1,216 Member
    edited December 2019
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    ... you are increasing your calories by 200? Is this over maintenance? If so - it's going to certainly help with adding muscle, assuming your programming and recovery is adequate. However, later you mention "toned" and ab definition specifically. Bulking - even a fairly slow and "lean" bulk is going to add some fat which probably won't help you in the short term if you are striving for ab definition.

    edit: eh, cwoflman already addressed this above. I'll leave it though.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,075 Member
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    etherealanwar wrote: »
    Sorry let me clarify I just noticed I did not really specify what I meant. By visual progress I mean getting toned for the most part, ab definition for instance. I do not mean looking ripped haha, I know that takes a very long time and someone to be quite lean. Just really any amount of noticeable visual change that is attributed to your lifting.

    Thank you everyone for your replies!

    Definition comes with leanness...ie it's mostly your diet. Yes, you need the existing muscle which comes from lifting, but definition comes with leanness. Ab definition in particular, even if you're not talking about being ripped, generally requires a high degree of leanness in both men and women since the mid section is primary fat stores for many. Some men can have more ab definition at a bit higher BF%, but they are also very muscular in general. I've never seen this be the case with women.

    Also, particularly for women, a lot will come down to genetics. I know quite a few women who are athlete lean, and while they have very flat mid-sections, they have little to no ab definition. I know a couple of women who have good ab definition, but they are bikini competitors, and even then, they don't stay that lean year around.

    Ab definition is a tough one in that it basically goes against our biological evolution...trying to be that lean on purpose is pretty new.

    Also, going back to your first post...it shouldn't take a couple of years for your physique to change to the extent that people can tell that you workout and lift. It'll be a constant change over time...it's not like you look like you don't lift and then, bam...all of a sudden you do. I can usually tell someone has been hitting the weight room after a few months...it might not be where they want to be, but there are obviously visible changes. The thing is, a lot of people who get into lifting are never 100% where they want to be...thus years come into the conversation...also, you have to consider maintaining whatever look you're going for. That requires the same amount of work and when/if you stop, that look disappears fairly quickly.

    I think there's also a bit of "eye of the beholder" in whether someone looks like they lift, too. If a person's used to seeing some of the signs (that under-shoulder triangularity is one I'm thinking of), then it's more noticeable to them, even if people with less knowledge won't see it.

    IME, women in particular are often looking at their own belly/abs, inner thighs, and upper arms. Not only do many of us tend not to accurately perceive our own body changes in the mirror (at least not right away), but the first two of those (belly and inner thighs) are places where many women keep those last little bits of persistent body fat longest :lol: . The upper arm thing ("bat wing/chicken wing/arm flaps") is sometimes that or relatively low muscle mass, and sometimes that some women don't seem to recognize the need to flex enough to tighten up the relaxed triceps that are slack and a little flappy until fully engaged (this latter very commonly at least part of the explanation, IME).

    Measuring more body parts, taking bathing suit (or shorts/sports-bra) progress photos once a month or so (upper arms fully flexed, please ;) ), and valuing the strength increases (not just the "look") are things that can maybe help see progress along the way, even though mass increase is going to be slow, and "toning" subtle.
  • jseams1234
    jseams1234 Posts: 1,216 Member
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I think there's also a bit of "eye of the beholder" in whether someone looks like they lift, too. If a person's used to seeing some of the signs (that under-shoulder triangularity is one I'm thinking of), then it's more noticeable to them, even if people with less knowledge won't see it.

    For me it's always been the traps. Some guys naturally have a V taper but very few (if any) I've met have meaty traps without having trained them... although I'm hearing more and more young lifters talk about NOT targeting them as they seem to think that the pencil-neck no trap look makes their shoulders appear larger.

  • etherealanwar
    etherealanwar Posts: 465 Member
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    jseams1234 wrote: »
    ... you are increasing your calories by 200? Is this over maintenance? If so - it's going to certainly help with adding muscle, assuming your programming and recovery is adequate. However, later you mention "toned" and ab definition specifically. Bulking - even a fairly slow and "lean" bulk is going to add some fat which probably won't help you in the short term if you are striving for ab definition.

    edit: eh, cwoflman already addressed this above. I'll leave it though.

    Ahh no I am increasing calories by 200 but will still be in a 250 calorie deficit. I plan on doing this until I lose 10 more pounds then switching to maintenance calories to recomp.
  • jseams1234
    jseams1234 Posts: 1,216 Member
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    etherealanwar wrote: »
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    ... you are increasing your calories by 200? Is this over maintenance? If so - it's going to certainly help with adding muscle, assuming your programming and recovery is adequate. However, later you mention "toned" and ab definition specifically. Bulking - even a fairly slow and "lean" bulk is going to add some fat which probably won't help you in the short term if you are striving for ab definition.

    edit: eh, cwoflman already addressed this above. I'll leave it though.

    Ahh no I am increasing calories by 200 but will still be in a 250 calorie deficit. I plan on doing this until I lose 10 more pounds then switching to maintenance calories to recomp.

    Ah, ok. That makes sense. Sorry - I got a bit confused there.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    etherealanwar wrote: »
    Sorry let me clarify I just noticed I did not really specify what I meant. By visual progress I mean getting toned for the most part, ab definition for instance. I do not mean looking ripped haha, I know that takes a very long time and someone to be quite lean. Just really any amount of noticeable visual change that is attributed to your lifting.

    Thank you everyone for your replies!

    Definition comes with leanness...ie it's mostly your diet. Yes, you need the existing muscle which comes from lifting, but definition comes with leanness. Ab definition in particular, even if you're not talking about being ripped, generally requires a high degree of leanness in both men and women since the mid section is primary fat stores for many. Some men can have more ab definition at a bit higher BF%, but they are also very muscular in general. I've never seen this be the case with women.

    Also, particularly for women, a lot will come down to genetics. I know quite a few women who are athlete lean, and while they have very flat mid-sections, they have little to no ab definition. I know a couple of women who have good ab definition, but they are bikini competitors, and even then, they don't stay that lean year around.

    Ab definition is a tough one in that it basically goes against our biological evolution...trying to be that lean on purpose is pretty new.

    Also, going back to your first post...it shouldn't take a couple of years for your physique to change to the extent that people can tell that you workout and lift. It'll be a constant change over time...it's not like you look like you don't lift and then, bam...all of a sudden you do. I can usually tell someone has been hitting the weight room after a few months...it might not be where they want to be, but there are obviously visible changes. The thing is, a lot of people who get into lifting are never 100% where they want to be...thus years come into the conversation...also, you have to consider maintaining whatever look you're going for. That requires the same amount of work and when/if you stop, that look disappears fairly quickly.

    I think there's also a bit of "eye of the beholder" in whether someone looks like they lift, too. If a person's used to seeing some of the signs (that under-shoulder triangularity is one I'm thinking of), then it's more noticeable to them, even if people with less knowledge won't see it.

    IME, women in particular are often looking at their own belly/abs, inner thighs, and upper arms. Not only do many of us tend not to accurately perceive our own body changes in the mirror (at least not right away), but the first two of those (belly and inner thighs) are places where many women keep those last little bits of persistent body fat longest :lol: . The upper arm thing ("bat wing/chicken wing/arm flaps") is sometimes that or relatively low muscle mass, and sometimes that some women don't seem to recognize the need to flex enough to tighten up the relaxed triceps that are slack and a little flappy until fully engaged (this latter very commonly at least part of the explanation, IME).

    Measuring more body parts, taking bathing suit (or shorts/sports-bra) progress photos once a month or so (upper arms fully flexed, please ;) ), and valuing the strength increases (not just the "look") are things that can maybe help see progress along the way, even though mass increase is going to be slow, and "toning" subtle.

    Also very subjective...and a whole range of various physiques resistance training can provide. I have some bodybuilder friends at the gym who tease me (in good fun) all the time about "do you even lift" because I'm not in anyway big, nor do I want to be...but when I'm not all winter fluffy I look pretty solid and fit...but nobody would ever mistake me for a big time weight room gym rat though.

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