Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
Replies
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@noodlesnoSo been in maintenance since March. Haven't been purposely recomping (I know that is not a real word
) however, lifting heavy weights has done its magic and definitely changed my body as you can see below.
So decided to take the recomp serious as of this week. Got myself an incredible trainer and looking to move my body fat from 25% (picture on right) to 18%-20%. I also want to get some of those abs people talk about and be able to do a set of pull up's and deadlift 100kg. Wish me luck!!!
The question I want to ask though (sorry if this has already been asked a million times); do I need to go to cut and bulk cycles? Is it possible just to do this gently with a slight calorie deficit? I would like to be a bit gentle with my body after the last year and losing 100lbs in 11 months.
You don't NEED to do cut/bulk cycles.
Only the elite few with many years of serious training behind them and very advanced body composition goals might actually need to. But that's to progress beyond a physique that few will aspire to or achieve. Other people may choose to but that's very different to being a requirement.8 -
Since you posted in a topic about Recomp - which is maintaining weight but transforming body by still losing fat - you are accomplishing that.
But since that is not your desire - I'd suggest starting your own topic.
I'll start out with a stressed out body undereating more than it desires can increase cortisol levels, which can help to slowly retain upwards of 20 lbs of water.
How many weeks could that mask fat loss on the scale, but your inches prove the fat is dropping.
Of course, a body under enough stress to react that way isn't good - so perhaps deficit is too great.
Or you are somehow wiping out a rather big deficit with inaccurate food and exercise calories logging.
When you start your topic - include if weighing foods (not measuring), and where the workout calorie burns come from.
Sorry, I thought since I seem to be in recomp (but don’t want to be, as you said) a thread about recomp might be the most helpful place. I didn’t know if maybe there was an aspect about recomp that I was missing therefore sticking me in recomp when I would like to no be.
I am weighing my foods + measuring the volume of liquids when appropriate, I’ve stated that above.
And WOAH. I had no idea the body could retain so many lbs of water! That’s incredible helpful to know, even if my body is or isn’t doing that, I didn’t even know it was an option.
Thanks for your reply!2 -
So been in maintenance since March. Haven't been purposely recomping (I know that is not a real word) however, lifting heavy weights has done its magic and definitely changed my body as you can see below.
So decided to take the recomp serious as of this week. Got myself an incredible trainer and looking to move my body fat from 25% (picture on right) to 18%-20%. I also want to get some of those abs people talk about and be able to do a set of pull up's and deadlift 100kg. Wish me luck!!!
The question I want to ask though (sorry if this has already been asked a million times); do I need to go to cut and bulk cycles? Is it possible just to do this gently with a slight calorie deficit? I would like to be a bit gentle with my body after the last year and losing 100lbs in 11 months.
Nice work! No reason you can't take it slow with a slight deficit (a lot of folks don't have the patience).0 -
@noodlesno
You don't NEED to do cut/bulk cycles.
Only the elite few with many years of serious training behind them and very advanced body composition goals might actually need to. But that's to progress beyond a physique that few will aspire to or achieve. Other people may choose to but that's very different to being a requirement.
Ok perfect, thanks. Maybe one day I will get to that point but for now, slight kcal deficit, high protein, and heavyweights will hopefully do the job (with a little sprinkle of cardio for that heart health).
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Ooh, this needs a big BUMP, h 2
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180 July 2018
179 October 2019
179 August 2018
179 October 2019
Still making some progress. Aiming for more chiseled abs while maintaining my strength and size.
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Dvdgzz impressive progress. Can I ask have you maintained at 180 the whole time or have you run any cut and bulk cycles?2
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Oh my goodness, I first thought it was only 4 months between the first and second shot and couldn't believe it. Then I saw it was a YEAR and 4 months. Much more believable. Great job man. One of the best recomp successes I've seen.4
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So is there any reason why a person could not do recomp cycles during the last 30 or so pounds of weight loss? If so, what would make sense? Would something like 4 months at TDEE followed by 2 months of deficit (the deficit part I will figure out) be worth doing? I am not in a significant hurry to finish losing and I am patient enough that just because some of my results will stay hidden won't bother me. I don't think I would be interested in any type of bulking while I still have so much to lose.
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cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »Dvdgzz impressive progress. Can I ask have you maintained at 180 the whole time or have you run any cut and bulk cycles?
So, summer of 18' I was running a lot for preparation for a Tough Mudder event. I think I lost a lot of muscle despite the fact that I was still lifting a lot. Looking back at my food calendar I was only averaging ~130 grams of protein. Once that event was over I resumed the same amount of calories but raised protein to an average of ~180 I was only running sparingly. I bounced back and gained a lot of muscle back via muscle memory. My weight climbed to a peak of 198. Since then I've done a really slow cut since May and this is the current look.
So I bulked but it wasn't planned, it just happened because my calories didn't change but my CO did. I have a better comparison of the back at the same weight. The one I posted, the recomp was already happening. I was 1.5 months into it. Here is one from July of 18' vs. yesterday. Both at 179 pounds.
mom23mangos wrote: »Oh my goodness, I first thought it was only 4 months between the first and second shot and couldn't believe it. Then I saw it was a YEAR and 4 months. Much more believable. Great job man. One of the best recomp successes I've seen.
You know, it could have been shorter than that but I lost focus early this year and lost progress. I was stagnant for a good 3 months. So it could have been cut to a year. Either way, some struggles make this a more realistic change. We're only human.
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So is there any reason why a person could not do recomp cycles during the last 30 or so pounds of weight loss? If so, what would make sense? Would something like 4 months at TDEE followed by 2 months of deficit (the deficit part I will figure out) be worth doing? I am not in a significant hurry to finish losing and I am patient enough that just because some of my results will stay hidden won't bother me. I don't think I would be interested in any type of bulking while I still have so much to lose.
It would depend on how much muscle you have already gained since 30 pounds of lean body mass on top of their bmi weight is about the max that can be achieved.
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Novusdies I see no reason why you can’t do that. Basically you would be cutting them having an extended diet break. Makes sense if you want to have an extended period of not dieting.0
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So is there any reason why a person could not do recomp cycles during the last 30 or so pounds of weight loss? If so, what would make sense? Would something like 4 months at TDEE followed by 2 months of deficit (the deficit part I will figure out) be worth doing? I am not in a significant hurry to finish losing and I am patient enough that just because some of my results will stay hidden won't bother me. I don't think I would be interested in any type of bulking while I still have so much to lose.
It would depend on how much muscle you have already gained since 30 pounds of lean body mass on top of their bmi weight is about the max that can be achieved.
I would essentially be a newbie. I have done some strength training but not nearly enough. I am not even cleared to try it again (post-op) for another 2 months. That is my primary motivation for considering this plan. I would like to make some progress with a little efficiency. I do not want to spend too much time technically obese so that is why I want to alternate some deficit periods.0 -
cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »Novusdies I see no reason why you can’t do that. Basically you would be cutting them having an extended diet break. Makes sense if you want to have an extended period of not dieting.
With the amount of weight I had have to lose to get this far I do believe a couple of trial runs at maintenance might be an additional benefit for me.7 -
cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »Novusdies I see no reason why you can’t do that. Basically you would be cutting them having an extended diet break. Makes sense if you want to have an extended period of not dieting.
With the amount of weight I had have to lose to get this far I do believe a couple of trial runs at maintenance might be an additional benefit for me.
Just to offer another anonymous opinion from the internet: You mention that you're working on some post-op recovery and all of that. Having fought similar battles in the past, eating well and at or slightly above maintenance, seemed to help assure my recovery and physical therapy was successful and as expedient as practicable. Carrying my post-op/recovery maintenance-level eating into the first few weeks of my new exercise program (once cleared) allowed me to better calculate my "new maintenance" levels as well.
My thinking was, "Eat to heal", then "Eat for life".5 -
Nacho_Daddy wrote: »cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »Novusdies I see no reason why you can’t do that. Basically you would be cutting them having an extended diet break. Makes sense if you want to have an extended period of not dieting.
With the amount of weight I had have to lose to get this far I do believe a couple of trial runs at maintenance might be an additional benefit for me.
Just to offer another anonymous opinion from the internet: You mention that you're working on some post-op recovery and all of that. Having fought similar battles in the past, eating well and at or slightly above maintenance, seemed to help assure my recovery and physical therapy was successful and as expedient as practicable. Carrying my post-op/recovery maintenance-level eating into the first few weeks of my new exercise program (once cleared) allowed me to better calculate my "new maintenance" levels as well.
My thinking was, "Eat to heal", then "Eat for life".
I am eating very well (tdee + 10 percent) and strategically to maximize my healing potential (at least what I can through food). I normally do not eat breakfast at all and very little dinner but I feel like I need to distribute my considerable protein intake better during this first phase of healing.6 -
Novus: you have a sensible and sustainable plan and makes perfect sense to prioritise recovery and then look at practising maintenance.
Strength training when you are cleared to start will help you maintain lean mass.1 -
I have an unintended recomp experience I thought I’d post here...
HW: 200 lbs. in 2017
Weight Loss SW: 190 lbs. in February 2018
Recomp SW: 135 lbs. in May 2019
CW: 142 lbs. in December 2019
I lost 65 lbs. over the course of a bit over a year, while lifting a couple times a week, and did not like my body composition at all. I thought I needed to lose more fat, but was too burnt out and tired of being in a deficit after a year. So, I switched my focus to lifting in a more focused way, and let the calories be what they may.
A couple weeks ago I took some progress pictures, and there’s a big difference! I have gained some weight but also look like I lost body fat.
Recomp is working for me!
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peachvine29 wrote: »I have an unintended recomp experience I thought I’d post here...
HW: 200 lbs. in 2017
Weight Loss SW: 190 lbs. in February 2018
Recomp SW: 135 lbs. in May 2019
CW: 142 lbs. in December 2019
I lost 65 lbs. over the course of a bit over a year, while lifting a couple times a week, and did not like my body composition at all. I thought I needed to lose more fat, but was too burnt out and tired of being in a deficit after a year. So, I switched my focus to lifting in a more focused way, and let the calories be what they may.
A couple weeks ago I took some progress pictures, and there’s a big difference! I have gained some weight but also look like I lost body fat.
Recomp is working for me!
Looks like recomping made your hair darker as well...3 -
allother94 wrote: »peachvine29 wrote: »I have an unintended recomp experience I thought I’d post here...
HW: 200 lbs. in 2017
Weight Loss SW: 190 lbs. in February 2018
Recomp SW: 135 lbs. in May 2019
CW: 142 lbs. in December 2019
I lost 65 lbs. over the course of a bit over a year, while lifting a couple times a week, and did not like my body composition at all. I thought I needed to lose more fat, but was too burnt out and tired of being in a deficit after a year. So, I switched my focus to lifting in a more focused way, and let the calories be what they may.
A couple weeks ago I took some progress pictures, and there’s a big difference! I have gained some weight but also look like I lost body fat.
Recomp is working for me!
Looks like recomping made your hair darker as well...
Yes, I dyed my hair recently.5 -
With a recomp you aren't losing weight. What other body measures are worth following instead? Body fat should decrease right? How soon should you see results there? Should you expect waist size to drop, or does it stay the same size but more muscular?1
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robingmurphy wrote: »With a recomp you aren't losing weight. What other body measures are worth following instead? Body fat should decrease right? How soon should you see results there? Should you expect waist size to drop, or does it stay the same size but more muscular?
Some of what you ask will be determined by genetics and some by the recomp. The body measures you use instead of weight are body measurements. Waist, hips, chest, arms, calf, thighs for example. Yes, body fat should decrease but there is no truly reliable way to determine this very precisely. All measurement methods have some margin for error. Dexa scans and Hydrostatic testing being the best.
Whether waist size drops or not depends on how much abdominal fat one carries. If not much, the waist could stay the same and be more lean and muscular. But that is mostly determined by genetics and is the same recomp or not.
As far as how fast one seems results, recomp is a slow process. Very slow. An untrained subject will initially see result with muscle gains a little quicker.
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So is there any reason why a person could not do recomp cycles during the last 30 or so pounds of weight loss? If so, what would make sense? Would something like 4 months at TDEE followed by 2 months of deficit (the deficit part I will figure out) be worth doing? I am not in a significant hurry to finish losing and I am patient enough that just because some of my results will stay hidden won't bother me. I don't think I would be interested in any type of bulking while I still have so much to lose.
You certainly could try this. As a relatively untrained subject and if you still have a good amount to lose, you are in a great position to initially gain muscle mass for a few months even in a deficit. I forget how much more you have to lose. But as you get closer to goal, you could certainly cycle recomp with deficit until you get to where you want to be leanness and muscle mass wise.2 -
@robingmurphy
With a recomp you aren't losing weight. What other body measures are worth following instead?
Whichever ones are of interest to you. (Upper arms, upper legs, chest and waist were mine. Neck was a waste of time as impossible to be consistent, probably should have added calf muscle measurements too.)
Body fat should decrease right?
Correct
How soon should you see results there?
That's a how long is a piece of string question as it depends on the rate at which you personally can add muscle. Young, male, untrained, athletic bodyfat levels, good responder to stimulus who starts training consistently is going to see results in weeks. Change those variables and the speed of muscle gain changes too. The "seeing results" part (as opposed to getting results) is very dependant on your bodyfat levels - just a small covering of fat can mask what's going on underneath
Should you expect waist size to drop, or does it stay the same size but more muscular?
If you are carrying excess fat there yes you would most likely measure less over time.
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@robingmurphy
With a recomp you aren't losing weight. What other body measures are worth following instead?
Whichever ones are of interest to you. (Upper arms, upper legs, chest and waist were mine. Neck was a waste of time as impossible to be consistent, probably should have added calf muscle measurements too.)
Body fat should decrease right?
Correct
How soon should you see results there?
That's a how long is a piece of string question as it depends on the rate at which you personally can add muscle. Young, male, untrained, athletic bodyfat levels, good responder to stimulus who starts training consistently is going to see results in weeks. Change those variables and the speed of muscle gain changes too. The "seeing results" part (as opposed to getting results) is very dependant on your bodyfat levels - just a small covering of fat can mask what's going on underneath
Should you expect waist size to drop, or does it stay the same size but more muscular?
If you are carrying excess fat there yes you would most likely measure less over time.
Something I forgot to mention as appearence seems to be your main driver - progress photos. Same lighting, same clothes/no clothes, same pose(s), whole body. Changes in body composition can be very subtle and often you simply don't notice see those long term changes when you see yourself in the mirror every day.
(Background - my profile picture came from me moaning to my wife I wasn't seeing any progress despite getting much stronger, BF% estimates improving, tape measurements changing. See responded - I can see the differrence in your back and took some pictures. A bit of chub was masking progress on my front but losing some chub from my back revealed what was happening. It's a jigsaw of data and the individual pieces don't tell the whole story.)12 -
I think I am at a point where I would like to start working on recomp. I am about 10-15 pounds above my ultimate goal weight but I think that recomp may help me achieve what I am looking for vs continuing to lose. I am currently 5'4" and maintaining between 130-135 lbs. My question revolves around recomp with restrictions. After a knee injury about 3 years ago I found out through an MRI that I don't have a ton of cartilage left in either of my knees (left being worse). The orthopedic surgeon said I would need both knees replaced at some point but I was too young for that to be a consideration for some time (I was 38 at the time). His recommendation was to preserve the cartilage I have left by restricting certain activities that could exacerbate the breakdown of the remaining cartilage. He said I should avoid running, jumping activities, squats, lunges and squatting or kneeling for extended periods of time. Currently I mostly swim for exercise but during the summer months I also do some biking and walking. Most of the recomp programs I have looked at (Strong Curves, Starting Strength, Strong Lifts 5x5) all require a decent % of squats, lunges or both. Does anyone know if it is possible to recomp without doing squats and lunges? Does anyone have a program they use or would recommend?3
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@tracybear86
There isn't such a thing as a recomp program. There are simply lifting programs with different blends of hypertrophy and strength focus and targeted at lifters with different levels of experience/training years.
Yes being injury limited in your choice of lifts will slow your progress (as it does for me with chronic knee and back injuries). Not being able to do the big compound lifts that work the biggest muscles in your body will inevitably affect your potential rate of progress. You can only play the cards you are dealt but that doesn't stop you making progress - it just slows it down.
I wouldn't recommend my self-devised program as I've never seen one written specifically for an elderly cyclist with mashed knees and back.
But I do stick to the principles of the correct volume and intensity of the lifts I can do. Off the shelf programs don't really work if you can't do the lifts specified - a well qualified PT or physical therapist might be a better option.
BTW - my surgeons told me at age 31 I would have a total knee replacement by age 50 due to losing 90% of a cartilage and a cruciate ligament. But at 59 my knee is still allowing me to cycle 5,000 miles a year even with further damage. Predicting the future isn't an exact science.
You will have to listen to your body and avoid the things that cause damage while maintaining the muscles that support your knees (primarilly quads). e.g. running, especially on a hard surface, is awful to my knees but cycling is beneficial as it's shock force and twisting/lunging that really aggravates my particular injuries. Squats and deadlifts aren't good for me but I can tolerate leg presses but only up to about 200kg when my knee goes bone on bone (and squeaks!). You need to develop the awareness of pain that indicates damage as opposed to soreness that might indicate you are simply pushing your limits.13 -
@sijomial Thanks for the input, I appreciate it! I was kind of figuring I may just have to develop my own program. I was doing Strong Curves prior to my injury so I may try that again, skip the squats and lunges, maybe add some additional body weight exercises and see how that goes. I am pretty good at differentiating general soreness from when I am overdoing it. This past weekend we were taking Christmas decorations down to the basement and after about 6-7 trips up and down the stairs my knee started to hurt and make its "2 rocks rubbing together" noise so I knew it was time to take a break!
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Hey thanks for the great info and stories.
I recently completed a 12 week challenge in the “body transformation category”
Although I didn’t realise it was called “body recomposition, this is exactly what I did.
I made a point of not weighing myself at all after the first couple of weeks of the challenge. I was finding it slightly demotivating to be putting in so much work at the gym and eating to well but not seeing a change on the scales.
Please see the results;
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Wow, dude! A clear difference. Well done.3
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