“Skinny Fat” problem: pls help !!
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candylilacs wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »[
How will walking a mile a day help build up muscle mass?
Where does the OP say "help build up muscle mass"?
You said walking a mile a day would put your thighs in great shape. The only way to 'put thighs in great shape' is to build muscle mass in that area. Walking a mile a day won't do that.
If OP is 'skinny-fat' the only way to rectify it is through resistance training. Progressive weight training would be beneficial to reach this goal, walking wouldn't.12 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.
That's fair, I assume you have some type of formal training/education to be working with nutrition counseling?
I suggested she should get some medical direction. I didn't specifically say, but I would take that to assume from a licensed professional.
To be clear, i do not carry any nutrition certifications, like 99% of the forum. I am not prescribing any specific plans (diet or exercise), specific supplements or counseling. I am self taught and have worked with people on this forum over the past decade to help them achieve their goals. Similarly, i also provide those services to people in real life with great results.
It doesn't require a PhD or MD to provide proven experience and follow evidence based practices. Just like I don't need to be a certified mechanic to work on my car (which btw, i have done clutch and flywheel, axel changes, brake jobs, timing belts, etc..) or a professional cook to be able to make amazing food.
So if that is your bar for knowledge, I would ask why you are on a forum full of non doctors? I am pretty sure a large majority of this forum over the past decade would agree that i provide fairly sound advice.
And given that you asked, what is your background? And what experience do you bring?10 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »You said walking a mile a day would put your thighs in great shape. The only way to 'put thighs in great shape' is to build muscle mass in that area. Walking a mile a day won't do that.
If OP is 'skinny-fat' the only way to rectify it is through resistance training. Progressive weight training would be beneficial to reach this goal, walking wouldn't.
Where does the OP say "help build up muscle mass"? You're quoting out of context.
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OP I have only skimmed the comments. Do you want to look more muscular? If so, you could just start a resistance training programme and see what happens. Leave your weight as it is. You may be surprised at the results. I have been strength training for 3 years now. More or less at same weight. 135-140, 5 ft 8.5. I still have fat but I look much better, subjectively. I’m not ripped or anything I just look firmer all over and my arms and back are a bit muscular.3
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I should add - losing weight is definitely not the answer. You are 20 pounds lighter than me and only half an inch shorter. Your right in the edge of being underweight.3
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.
That's fair, I assume you have some type of formal training/education to be working with nutrition counseling?
I suggested she should get some medical direction. I didn't specifically say, but I would take that to assume from a licensed professional.
To be clear, i do not carry any nutrition certifications, like 99% of the forum. I am not prescribing any specific plans (diet or exercise), specific supplements or counseling. I am self taught and have worked with people on this forum over the past decade to help them achieve their goals. Similarly, i also provide those services to people in real life with great results.
It doesn't require a PhD or MD to provide proven experience and follow evidence based practices. Just like I don't need to be a certified mechanic to work on my car (which btw, i have done clutch and flywheel, axel changes, brake jobs, timing belts, etc..) or a professional cook to be able to make amazing food.
So if that is your bar for knowledge, I would ask why you are on a forum full of non doctors? I am pretty sure a large majority of this forum over the past decade would agree that i provide fairly sound advice.
And given that you asked, what is your background? And what experience do you bring?
Thank you for clearing up your qualifications. Of course I don't expect everyone on an internet forum to be a trained expert. However, your comments on working with people, providing services to people, along with your title of MFP moderator, tends to imply, at least to me, you are doing this professionally where one would expect at least a bit of formal training to go along with life experiences and personal study. Sharing of personal experiences and study is great and can be helpful, but I do generally expect some level of training from someone doing something professionally.
My first comment on this post was for the OP to consider resistance training and a proper diet (not just add a bunch of calories, which of course could be a part of the diet). Later, I agreed with others that she should get some advice from a medical professional. The advice from a professional may well be eat more and lift weights. You apparently don't think any sort of professional medical advice is needed to check for any underlying issues. Personally, along with others on this thread, I think it's a good idea. We will have to agree to disagree.
You asked about my background and experiences:- Have attempted to live a healthy lifestyle, now in my 60's
- HS sports
- Have maintained my HS graduation weight of 200 lbs @ 6'2" (+/- 10%) since graduation. Before anyone points out this is overweight per BMI I had a decent level of muscle at the time (people asked if I was a receiver/defensive back in football or played baseball at my 20,000 student university) and I have continued to lift weights.
- In addition to resistance training have done a fair bit of running and biking (couple marathons and a century included)
- Have coached youth sports, and coached/mentored adult running training groups
- Get regular medical checkups and never on any heart/cholesterol medication so either extremely lucky or my diet/exercise practices are working for me from a health perspective
- Have undergone 8 orthopedic surgeries along with the associated rehab. Also survived and completely recovered from a case of sepsis that had me hospitalized for 7 days
- A lot of reading on health and fitness topics over the years
- Took a 40 hour live prep class and passed the ACE Personal Trainer Certification test for personal enrichment/challenge. Not working in the field.
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I have these problems. I look “normal” in clothes but other times theres more fat than I’d like. Like others said, gaining muscle is what you need to get your weight up!1
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.
That's fair, I assume you have some type of formal training/education to be working with nutrition counseling?
I suggested she should get some medical direction. I didn't specifically say, but I would take that to assume from a licensed professional.
To be clear, i do not carry any nutrition certifications, like 99% of the forum. I am not prescribing any specific plans (diet or exercise), specific supplements or counseling. I am self taught and have worked with people on this forum over the past decade to help them achieve their goals. Similarly, i also provide those services to people in real life with great results.
It doesn't require a PhD or MD to provide proven experience and follow evidence based practices. Just like I don't need to be a certified mechanic to work on my car (which btw, i have done clutch and flywheel, axel changes, brake jobs, timing belts, etc..) or a professional cook to be able to make amazing food.
So if that is your bar for knowledge, I would ask why you are on a forum full of non doctors? I am pretty sure a large majority of this forum over the past decade would agree that i provide fairly sound advice.
And given that you asked, what is your background? And what experience do you bring?
Thank you for clearing up your qualifications. Of course I don't expect everyone on an internet forum to be a trained expert. However, your comments on working with people, providing services to people, along with your title of MFP moderator, tends to imply, at least to me, you are doing this professionally where one would expect at least a bit of formal training to go along with life experiences and personal study. Sharing of personal experiences and study is great and can be helpful, but I do generally expect some level of training from someone doing something professionally.
My first comment on this post was for the OP to consider resistance training and a proper diet (not just add a bunch of calories, which of course could be a part of the diet). Later, I agreed with others that she should get some advice from a medical professional. The advice from a professional may well be eat more and lift weights. You apparently don't think any sort of professional medical advice is needed to check for any underlying issues. Personally, along with others on this thread, I think it's a good idea. We will have to agree to disagree.
You asked about my background and experiences:- Have attempted to live a healthy lifestyle, now in my 60's
- HS sports
- Have maintained my HS graduation weight of 200 lbs @ 6'2" (+/- 10%) since graduation. Before anyone points out this is overweight per BMI I had a decent level of muscle at the time (people asked if I was a receiver/defensive back in football or played baseball at my 20,000 student university) and I have continued to lift weights.
- In addition to resistance training have done a fair bit of running and biking (couple marathons and a century included)
- Have coached youth sports, and coached/mentored adult running training groups
- Get regular medical checkups and never on any heart/cholesterol medication so either extremely lucky or my diet/exercise practices are working for me from a health perspective
- Have undergone 8 orthopedic surgeries along with the associated rehab. Also survived and completely recovered from a case of sepsis that had me hospitalized for 7 days
- A lot of reading on health and fitness topics over the years
- Took a 40 hour live prep class and passed the ACE Personal Trainer Certification test for personal enrichment/challenge. Not working in the field.
Thank you for that.
First, as an FYI, to be a forum moderator, you do not need qualifications. You need the ability to enforce rules and have unbiased conversations. This is the 3rd forum I have modded, carrying over 20 years of experience.
I have played sports since I was three, to include college ice hockey for Penn State, hold a black belt in Tang Soo Do and lost 50lbs about 9 years ago and have kept if off since thing (+/- 5-7 lbs). I also also lifted in one shape or form for quite some time. The last time I test 1RM, I had a 250 bench, 280 squat, 350 deadlift and 225 pendlay row. Not overly impressive IMO but it was making progress prior to a shoulder injury (caused by kids).
Since I am not certified, I do not charge for my services. I do it because I have a passion for helping people. Every person I have worked with knows I am not professionally qualify and has not cared. When it comes down to it, the person who has knowledge and can keep a person accountable, will be the best choice. And if I cannot help a person hit their goals, then I recommend going to a professional. In my entire time doing this, there has been 1 person who I have been unable to help and I suspect she had underlying heath issues.
And on the medical front, I have helped my wife through eight surgeries (with 2 near deaths from tachycardia) and multiple years in a hospital from pancreatitis. Additionally, I have worked with my wife's team of cardiologist and electrophysiologist with her autonomic disorder (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome). A large part of that is diet and supplementation. During that time, I have had several doctors and medical professionals ask if I was in the field based on my knowledge.
Also, sorry about your sepsis. My wife's mother (kidney transplant precipitant) went through that 6 years ago while on vacation. It's horrible.8 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.
That's fair, I assume you have some type of formal training/education to be working with nutrition counseling?
I suggested she should get some medical direction. I didn't specifically say, but I would take that to assume from a licensed professional.
To be clear, i do not carry any nutrition certifications, like 99% of the forum. I am not prescribing any specific plans (diet or exercise), specific supplements or counseling. I am self taught and have worked with people on this forum over the past decade to help them achieve their goals. Similarly, i also provide those services to people in real life with great results.
It doesn't require a PhD or MD to provide proven experience and follow evidence based practices. Just like I don't need to be a certified mechanic to work on my car (which btw, i have done clutch and flywheel, axel changes, brake jobs, timing belts, etc..) or a professional cook to be able to make amazing food.
So if that is your bar for knowledge, I would ask why you are on a forum full of non doctors? I am pretty sure a large majority of this forum over the past decade would agree that i provide fairly sound advice.
And given that you asked, what is your background? And what experience do you bring?
Thank you for clearing up your qualifications. Of course I don't expect everyone on an internet forum to be a trained expert. However, your comments on working with people, providing services to people, along with your title of MFP moderator, tends to imply, at least to me, you are doing this professionally where one would expect at least a bit of formal training to go along with life experiences and personal study. Sharing of personal experiences and study is great and can be helpful, but I do generally expect some level of training from someone doing something professionally.
My first comment on this post was for the OP to consider resistance training and a proper diet (not just add a bunch of calories, which of course could be a part of the diet). Later, I agreed with others that she should get some advice from a medical professional. The advice from a professional may well be eat more and lift weights. You apparently don't think any sort of professional medical advice is needed to check for any underlying issues. Personally, along with others on this thread, I think it's a good idea. We will have to agree to disagree.
You asked about my background and experiences:- Have attempted to live a healthy lifestyle, now in my 60's
- HS sports
- Have maintained my HS graduation weight of 200 lbs @ 6'2" (+/- 10%) since graduation. Before anyone points out this is overweight per BMI I had a decent level of muscle at the time (people asked if I was a receiver/defensive back in football or played baseball at my 20,000 student university) and I have continued to lift weights.
- In addition to resistance training have done a fair bit of running and biking (couple marathons and a century included)
- Have coached youth sports, and coached/mentored adult running training groups
- Get regular medical checkups and never on any heart/cholesterol medication so either extremely lucky or my diet/exercise practices are working for me from a health perspective
- Have undergone 8 orthopedic surgeries along with the associated rehab. Also survived and completely recovered from a case of sepsis that had me hospitalized for 7 days
- A lot of reading on health and fitness topics over the years
- Took a 40 hour live prep class and passed the ACE Personal Trainer Certification test for personal enrichment/challenge. Not working in the field.
Thank you for that.
First, as an FYI, to be a forum moderator, you do not need qualifications. You need the ability to enforce rules and have unbiased conversations. This is the 3rd forum I have modded, carrying over 20 years of experience.
I have played sports since I was three, to include college ice hockey for Penn State, hold a black belt in Tang Soo Do and lost 50lbs about 9 years ago and have kept if off since thing (+/- 5-7 lbs). I also also lifted in one shape or form for quite some time. The last time I test 1RM, I had a 250 bench, 280 squat, 350 deadlift and 225 pendlay row. Not overly impressive IMO but it was making progress prior to a shoulder injury (caused by kids).
Since I am not certified, I do not charge for my services. I do it because I have a passion for helping people. Every person I have worked with knows I am not professionally qualify and has not cared. When it comes down to it, the person who has knowledge and can keep a person accountable, will be the best choice. And if I cannot help a person hit their goals, then I recommend going to a professional. In my entire time doing this, there has been 1 person who I have been unable to help and I suspect she had underlying heath issues.
And on the medical front, I have helped my wife through eight surgeries (with 2 near deaths from tachycardia) and multiple years in a hospital from pancreatitis. Additionally, I have worked with my wife's team of cardiologist and electrophysiologist with her autonomic disorder (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome). A large part of that is diet and supplementation. During that time, I have had several doctors and medical professionals ask if I was in the field based on my knowledge.
Also, sorry about your sepsis. My wife's mother (kidney transplant precipitant) went through that 6 years ago while on vacation. It's horrible.
Thank you as well, lots of good background there. Picked some of it up in unfortunate ways though. Hope your wife is doing better.
The sepsis thing is nasty, also had it about 6 years ago. Hope your MIL came out of it okay. I was acquainted with one of the of the nurse's aides I had in the hospital (guy I met at the gym studying for EMT so he could get on with the fire department). He said, after it was clear I was recovering, that most people that came in like I did go out in a bodybag. He and the doctors said the fact that I took care of myself for all those years with diet and exercise saved my life. Those comments made me even more determined to live a healthy lifestyle. It may make me a bit preachy at times on health, but what can you do, you are the sum of your experiences.
I ended up with no ill effects from the sepsis, except that they tore my rotator cuff in the ER trying to help me into a MRI machine. Between the sepsis, rotator cuff surgery (had to wait several months for sepsis recovery to get it fixed) and surgery for a torn bicep tendon (other arm) not long after the rotator cuff healed it took about 2 years to start being fully able to do the things I wanted to do physically again. Had a lot of bonding experiences with my physical therapist.1 -
First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in the thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
I would never instantly tell someone they had body image issues - I would ask for a picture. I've seen plenty of posts by women bemoaning their "fat" thighs when they have perfectly normal thighs. We also have this long thread because women have an unrealistic expectation of what their stomachs should look like: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10689837/does-this-uterus-make-my-stomach-look-fat/p1
Due to our PhotoShop/Instagram culture (and going back long before that) many, especially young women, do have distorted body images, so I would want to rule that out.
However, everyone can benefit from strength training. My 82 year old mom is at the gym right now and I'm going to push away from the computer and go lift weights myself. (Note: I'm referring to strength training in general and do agree with you that “bulk/cut” might be premature.)
So @demimarie18, how about a picture? If you're not comfortable with that, how about discussing your perception that you are skinny fat with your GYN?7 -
We are all our own worst critics. At your age it's difficult not to be obsessed with your appearance. But do your best to think about more important matters:
What do you want in life? What skills to you need to do what you want? How are you going to get those skills?
The more you focus on things other than your appearance, the happier you will be.4 -
It seems to me there’s a lot of distance between “has body images so bad they require professional help” and “has kind of a messed up idea of what normal levels of body fat on a 20 year old woman’s body looks like due to a lifetime of viewing photoshopped ads.”
OP, you need some fat on your body in order to function normally, have periods, and so on. If your friends all have zero visible fat on their bodies then yes, they are underweight in a way that isn’t healthy.
The advice to gain some muscle mass in order to look better at a higher weight is good advice, but it would be helpful if we all knew where you were coming from and if your expectations are realistic. Would you be comfortable sharing a photo?4 -
First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
And how is your initial advice different than bulking as noted below? If you are lifting, with the intent to gain muscle, that is a bulk. If bulk is scary term, i definitely recognize it. But if a person is underweight and struggling with higher levels of body fat, outside of body dysmorphia, than it's largely a problem with underdevelopment of muscle. Gaining weight to get withing a healthy weight range, should be the focus. If there are emotional or psychological issues as well, they should certainly be addressed before the OP would take any other advice.
And, as stated by others, the focus should be on building and shaping muscle, not on losing fat.
I wasn't going to go this meta on the thread, but I possibly started it--and anyhow, non-meta went out the window about 15-20 posts ago.
If we have any disagreement, I suspect it's more about semantics and how one would *initially* approach someone with the OP's profile.
My opinion:
A beginner who has the OP's build (my assumption) does not need to start off with directions to initiate "bulk/cut" cycles. (I would go so far as to say 90% of the population would be better off if they never heard that term, but that's another thread).
Someone, esp someone with a smaller frame, starting off with a resistance program--virtually any resistance program--is going to "gain muscle", improve their shape and change their body composition. (assuming a reasonably appropriate diet).
To me, making it any more complicated than that is unnecessary and runs the risk of confusing or demotivating the individual. This is someone who is technically "underweight" and thinks the right strategy is dieting to lose fat. A basic reorientation is step one. Anything more complicated is weeks/months down the road.
I just think that it's an easy trap for more experienced exercisers (or even fitness professionals) to lapse into the jargon that they are comfortable with, but what might not be best for their intended audience.
The second thing I take issue is the recommendation to increase calories for the "bulk". Since the OP never stated her current intake and already has some questions about body image, I thought that recommendation was, as I said, ill-considered. Again, I think it is a situation where it is easy to fall back on familiar "template" terms and recommendations, but that are not necessarily the best approach for the individual.
That's it. Nothing really personal to anyone. This topic has come up numerous times in the forums. I often get very frustrated at many of the comments, and this was one time I just decided to share my thoughts FWIW.
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I disagree in that someone who is underweight should just lift and be able to gain muscle. Their first course of action should be getting to a healthy weight, and if there is history of ED (which we do not know) then seeing a doctor is recommended. OP doesn't have to "bulk" but can gain weight (with or without lifting) then recomp. Is it just terminology here or do you really think OP should stay underweight provided they lift? Would you tell someone who was obese to just lift and don't overcomplicate it by attempting to lose weight (or "cut")?
If OP has body image issues and prefers not to gain weight and stay underweight then seeing a doctor is highly recommended IMO.
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@Azdak being aware that you've had potentially real life contact with clients in similar circumstances vs my being primarily guided by tangent reading of papers and blogs and MFP interactions, and definitely no professional expertise (i.e. nothing beyond my own reading for self education and understanding), how do you square the following circles:
--currently underweight or near underweight with a
--recent history of dieting to lose weight often leading to increased
--ideation that may or may not amount to an ED but may carry some hints that it could amount to one if not modified in the very near future
--weight restoration to ~bmi 20 often associated with significant reduction in such ideation independently of other intervention (and even more so in conjunction with professional intervention, of course)
--the forum not suggesting increased net calories to stabilize weight above underweight and weight restore by preference as a primary step/ integral part of a plan of action?
The second circle that needs squaring for myself: what profiles qualify as having excess fat available at a sub 20 BMI?
I can think of very few. Vertically challenged, female, Asian, plus low muscle mass due to infirmity, injury, disease, or lack of training with or without associated nutritional misadventure?
Note that I am talking excess fat beyond a relatively lean, at most approaching normal, level. In other words something that WOULD primarily benefit from a caloric reduction to improve, which I think is seldom the case in the type of posts we are currently discussing.2 -
I disagree in that someone who is underweight should just lift and be able to gain muscle. Their first course of action should be getting to a healthy weight, and if there is history of ED (which we do not know) then seeing a doctor is recommended. OP doesn't have to "bulk" but can gain weight (with or without lifting) then recomp. Is it just terminology here or do you really think OP should stay underweight provided they lift? Would you tell someone who was obese to just lift and don't overcomplicate it by attempting to lose weight (or "cut")?
If OP has body image issues and prefers not to gain weight and stay underweight then seeing a doctor is highly recommended IMO.
I agree with this. And to add one of my biggest issues is that we are automatically assuming body image issues or ED even though we haven't directly said it. If we want to stay away from lifting jargon, then, i can get on board with that. But just because someone is concerned about their look doesn't mean ED or body issues.3 -
I disagree in that someone who is underweight should just lift and be able to gain muscle. Their first course of action should be getting to a healthy weight, and if there is history of ED (which we do not know) then seeing a doctor is recommended. OP doesn't have to "bulk" but can gain weight (with or without lifting) then recomp. Is it just terminology here or do you really think OP should stay underweight provided they lift? Would you tell someone who was obese to just lift and don't overcomplicate it by attempting to lose weight (or "cut")?
If OP has body image issues and prefers not to gain weight and stay underweight then seeing a doctor is highly recommended IMO.
I agree with this. And to add one of my biggest issues is that we are automatically assuming body image issues or ED even though we haven't directly said it. If we want to stay away from lifting jargon, then, i can get on board with that. But just because someone is concerned about their look doesn't mean ED or body issues.
I was almost underweight at one point, similar to OP (5'7" 120lbs), no ED or body dysmorphia, but very unhappy with my appearance. I was hesitant to gain at first but people on here highly recommended I gain. I am so glad I listened to them.4 -
Depends a lot on the circumstances of the person, no?
i.e. there exist, let's call it a number of "points" that eventually amount to "sounds like it may be a concern" vs "is not sounding like a likely concern" that make it something relevant to mention?1 -
I disagree in that someone who is underweight should just lift and be able to gain muscle. Their first course of action should be getting to a healthy weight, and if there is history of ED (which we do not know) then seeing a doctor is recommended. OP doesn't have to "bulk" but can gain weight (with or without lifting) then recomp. Is it just terminology here or do you really think OP should stay underweight provided they lift? Would you tell someone who was obese to just lift and don't overcomplicate it by attempting to lose weight (or "cut")?
If OP has body image issues and prefers not to gain weight and stay underweight then seeing a doctor is highly recommended IMO.
I agree with this. And to add one of my biggest issues is that we are automatically assuming body image issues or ED even though we haven't directly said it. If we want to stay away from lifting jargon, then, i can get on board with that. But just because someone is concerned about their look doesn't mean ED or body issues.
I was almost underweight at one point, similar to OP (5'7" 120lbs), no ED or body dysmorphia, but very unhappy with my appearance. I was hesitant to gain at first but people on here highly recommended I gain. I am so glad I listened to them.
One of the biggest issues i have seen over the years and in real life (including my wife) is that put a belief on a scale number but body composition is what matters.0 -
I disagree in that someone who is underweight should just lift and be able to gain muscle. Their first course of action should be getting to a healthy weight, and if there is history of ED (which we do not know) then seeing a doctor is recommended. OP doesn't have to "bulk" but can gain weight (with or without lifting) then recomp. Is it just terminology here or do you really think OP should stay underweight provided they lift? Would you tell someone who was obese to just lift and don't overcomplicate it by attempting to lose weight (or "cut")?
If OP has body image issues and prefers not to gain weight and stay underweight then seeing a doctor is highly recommended IMO.
Terminology. I am not suggesting OP should “stay underweight”. However, my experience is SO embedded into body composition, right or wrong, I don’t pay that much attention to scale weight. It’s not that I dismiss it, I have just had decades with good body composition tools at my disposal, so my habit is to look at fat, lean mass and (if possible) muscle separately. I’m not sure if that makes some of my remarks seem inconsistent since, like I said, I don’t really think in terms of scale weight.
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