“Skinny Fat” problem: pls help !!
demimarie18
Posts: 1 Member
I’m a 20 year old girl. I’m currently 54 kg (119 lbs) and 172 cm (5,8). According to my BMI I am classified as ‘underweight’. Recently, I have been in a calorie deficit to lose body fat because even tho I am at an “unhealthy” weight I still have excess fat on my body e.g. stomach and thighs. How could this be ? It makes me worry that I am going to have to be in a calorie deficit to the point where I am even more underweight to achieve the body I want.
It makes me look at other girls my age and wonder if they are severely underweight (even more than I am) to achieve such lean figures ?
Has anyone had a similar experience or can give any advice/guidance ?
It makes me look at other girls my age and wonder if they are severely underweight (even more than I am) to achieve such lean figures ?
Has anyone had a similar experience or can give any advice/guidance ?
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Replies
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Without any more information I'd say a good resistance training program would be the ticket for you along with proper diet.16
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You probably don't have nearly as much fat as you think you do. If you want to lose fat without losing more weight (which, if you are already underweight you should NOT lose more weight) then you should work to gain muscle.19
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Lift weights5
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demimarie18 wrote: »I’m a 20 year old girl. I’m currently 54 kg (119 lbs) and 172 cm (5,8). According to my BMI I am classified as ‘underweight’. Recently, I have been in a calorie deficit to lose body fat because even tho I am at an “unhealthy” weight I still have excess fat on my body e.g. stomach and thighs. How could this be ? It makes me worry that I am going to have to be in a calorie deficit to the point where I am even more underweight to achieve the body I want.
It makes me look at other girls my age and wonder if they are severely underweight (even more than I am) to achieve such lean figures ?
Has anyone had a similar experience or can give any advice/guidance ?
I think you are looking at it the wrong way. If we assume that you have more fat than is normal at your weight (this is an assumption, because if you haven't measured your body fat, your perception might not be reality), the issue is not your body fat (which is pretty much guaranteed to be in the normal or lower range), but rather a lack of muscle mass. Because if you are underweight and have more fat than expected, you definitely don't have enough muscle mass. Increasing muscle mass should be the focus, not losing fat.
You should see your doctor before you do (if you lost weight in an unhealthy way to get underweight, you may have some underlying health issues that should be monitored), but if you get the go ahead, follow a weight lifting program and eat at a slight surplus. That will take time, but you can build up your muscle. And then once you are comfortably in a normal weight range, you can look at cutting calories to lose some fat. This will likely be a slow process and take some patience and dedication, but it can be done.
Without seeing them, I can't say for sure, but these other girls you look at could quite possibly have a higher BMI than you, they just have more muscle.
Focusing on muscle, not body fat, is going to be what gets you the change you seek.20 -
Adding to previous comment: I have seen two body profiles that fit your description. One is someone who is normal weight/over fat. That is usually some one with a small frame and lower muscle mass. Two: normal weight/appropriate body fat with “over fat areas”. This means that, while overall body fat is normal or low, there is excess body fat in certain areas.
Both of these are genetically determined body types. And, as stated by others, the focus should be on building and shaping muscle, not on losing fat. I don’t think that calorie restriction is the healthiest or most effective approach in your case. You also have to be realistic about the body you have-which may not always be the body you want.
It would also be helpful to do some quality body composition testing done. That can be easier said than done, but if there is a university nearby that might have some options.11 -
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If you are skinny the best way to fix it is slow bulk and lift. Eat about 500-700 calories over maintenance, high protein, diet. The fix for skinny fat is to add muscle and once you've done that you go into a deficit again to bring the body fat down again.4
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I will add in a link to a good thread with a bunch of lifting programs.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
But it's very common for underweight people to have fat and it's driven by too little muscle mass (like others have alluded to).
Lift heavy, eat about 300-500 calories over maintenance and you gain some weight. You might have to cycle between bulks/cuts a few times until you get the results you want.11 -
First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
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demimarie18 wrote: »I’m a 20 year old girl. I’m currently 54 kg (119 lbs) and 172 cm (5,8). According to my BMI I am classified as ‘underweight’. Recently, I have been in a calorie deficit to lose body fat because even tho I am at an “unhealthy” weight I still have excess fat on my body e.g. stomach and thighs. How could this be ? It makes me worry that I am going to have to be in a calorie deficit to the point where I am even more underweight to achieve the body I want.
It makes me look at other girls my age and wonder if they are severely underweight (even more than I am) to achieve such lean figures ?
Has anyone had a similar experience or can give any advice/guidance ?
I think you are looking at it the wrong way. If we assume that you have more fat than is normal at your weight (this is an assumption, because if you haven't measured your body fat, your perception might not be reality), the issue is not your body fat (which is pretty much guaranteed to be in the normal or lower range), but rather a lack of muscle mass. Because if you are underweight and have more fat than expected, you definitely don't have enough muscle mass. Increasing muscle mass should be the focus, not losing fat.
You should see your doctor before you do (if you lost weight in an unhealthy way to get underweight, you may have some underlying health issues that should be monitored), but if you get the go ahead, follow a weight lifting program and eat at a slight surplus. That will take time, but you can build up your muscle. And then once you are comfortably in a normal weight range, you can look at cutting calories to lose some fat. This will likely be a slow process and take some patience and dedication, but it can be done.
Without seeing them, I can't say for sure, but these other girls you look at could quite possibly have a higher BMI than you, they just have more muscle.
Focusing on muscle, not body fat, is going to be what gets you the change you seek.
All of this. I would advise the same.
To add I have been in the same situation. Undermuscled and normal weight and almost underweight. At that point I gained weight, lifted and got to a healthy place and looked much better. I would recommend you talk to your doctor first to make sure lifting is right for you right now. Good luck!10 -
First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.4 -
First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
And how is your initial advice different than bulking as noted below? If you are lifting, with the intent to gain muscle, that is a bulk. If bulk is scary term, i definitely recognize it. But if a person is underweight and struggling with higher levels of body fat, outside of body dysmorphia, than it's largely a problem with underdevelopment of muscle. Gaining weight to get withing a healthy weight range, should be the focus. If there are emotional or psychological issues as well, they should certainly be addressed before the OP would take any other advice.
And, as stated by others, the focus should be on building and shaping muscle, not on losing fat.
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The one thing that should not continue is the loss of weight and muscle in an attempt to lose fat while underweight. If nothing else because the look won't change.
A responsible slow bulk would be the first step if there is no underlying ED.
There are arguments to be made that a speedy weight restoration to BMI 20ish is more important and productive if there exists an underlying ED.7 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.5 -
demimarie18 wrote: »I’m a 20 year old girl. I’m currently 54 kg (119 lbs) and 172 cm (5,8). According to my BMI I am classified as ‘underweight’. Recently, I have been in a calorie deficit to lose body fat because even tho I am at an “unhealthy” weight I still have excess fat on my body e.g. stomach and thighs. How could this be ?
You should not going under 2,000 a day. Walk a whole mile daily. That's should put thighs in great shape.
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candylilacs wrote: »demimarie18 wrote: »I’m a 20 year old girl. I’m currently 54 kg (119 lbs) and 172 cm (5,8). According to my BMI I am classified as ‘underweight’. Recently, I have been in a calorie deficit to lose body fat because even tho I am at an “unhealthy” weight I still have excess fat on my body e.g. stomach and thighs. How could this be ?
You should not going under 2,000 a day. Walk a whole mile daily. That's should put thighs in great shape.
How will walking a mile a day help build up muscle mass?9 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.
That's fair, I assume you have some type of formal training/education to be working with nutrition counseling?
I suggested she should get some medical direction. I didn't specifically say, but I would take that to assume from a licensed professional.1 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »[
How will walking a mile a day help build up muscle mass?
Where does the OP say "help build up muscle mass"?
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candylilacs wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »[
How will walking a mile a day help build up muscle mass?
Where does the OP say "help build up muscle mass"?
You said walking a mile a day would put your thighs in great shape. The only way to 'put thighs in great shape' is to build muscle mass in that area. Walking a mile a day won't do that.
If OP is 'skinny-fat' the only way to rectify it is through resistance training. Progressive weight training would be beneficial to reach this goal, walking wouldn't.12 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.
That's fair, I assume you have some type of formal training/education to be working with nutrition counseling?
I suggested she should get some medical direction. I didn't specifically say, but I would take that to assume from a licensed professional.
To be clear, i do not carry any nutrition certifications, like 99% of the forum. I am not prescribing any specific plans (diet or exercise), specific supplements or counseling. I am self taught and have worked with people on this forum over the past decade to help them achieve their goals. Similarly, i also provide those services to people in real life with great results.
It doesn't require a PhD or MD to provide proven experience and follow evidence based practices. Just like I don't need to be a certified mechanic to work on my car (which btw, i have done clutch and flywheel, axel changes, brake jobs, timing belts, etc..) or a professional cook to be able to make amazing food.
So if that is your bar for knowledge, I would ask why you are on a forum full of non doctors? I am pretty sure a large majority of this forum over the past decade would agree that i provide fairly sound advice.
And given that you asked, what is your background? And what experience do you bring?10 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »You said walking a mile a day would put your thighs in great shape. The only way to 'put thighs in great shape' is to build muscle mass in that area. Walking a mile a day won't do that.
If OP is 'skinny-fat' the only way to rectify it is through resistance training. Progressive weight training would be beneficial to reach this goal, walking wouldn't.
Where does the OP say "help build up muscle mass"? You're quoting out of context.
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OP I have only skimmed the comments. Do you want to look more muscular? If so, you could just start a resistance training programme and see what happens. Leave your weight as it is. You may be surprised at the results. I have been strength training for 3 years now. More or less at same weight. 135-140, 5 ft 8.5. I still have fat but I look much better, subjectively. I’m not ripped or anything I just look firmer all over and my arms and back are a bit muscular.3
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I should add - losing weight is definitely not the answer. You are 20 pounds lighter than me and only half an inch shorter. Your right in the edge of being underweight.3
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.
That's fair, I assume you have some type of formal training/education to be working with nutrition counseling?
I suggested she should get some medical direction. I didn't specifically say, but I would take that to assume from a licensed professional.
To be clear, i do not carry any nutrition certifications, like 99% of the forum. I am not prescribing any specific plans (diet or exercise), specific supplements or counseling. I am self taught and have worked with people on this forum over the past decade to help them achieve their goals. Similarly, i also provide those services to people in real life with great results.
It doesn't require a PhD or MD to provide proven experience and follow evidence based practices. Just like I don't need to be a certified mechanic to work on my car (which btw, i have done clutch and flywheel, axel changes, brake jobs, timing belts, etc..) or a professional cook to be able to make amazing food.
So if that is your bar for knowledge, I would ask why you are on a forum full of non doctors? I am pretty sure a large majority of this forum over the past decade would agree that i provide fairly sound advice.
And given that you asked, what is your background? And what experience do you bring?
Thank you for clearing up your qualifications. Of course I don't expect everyone on an internet forum to be a trained expert. However, your comments on working with people, providing services to people, along with your title of MFP moderator, tends to imply, at least to me, you are doing this professionally where one would expect at least a bit of formal training to go along with life experiences and personal study. Sharing of personal experiences and study is great and can be helpful, but I do generally expect some level of training from someone doing something professionally.
My first comment on this post was for the OP to consider resistance training and a proper diet (not just add a bunch of calories, which of course could be a part of the diet). Later, I agreed with others that she should get some advice from a medical professional. The advice from a professional may well be eat more and lift weights. You apparently don't think any sort of professional medical advice is needed to check for any underlying issues. Personally, along with others on this thread, I think it's a good idea. We will have to agree to disagree.
You asked about my background and experiences:- Have attempted to live a healthy lifestyle, now in my 60's
- HS sports
- Have maintained my HS graduation weight of 200 lbs @ 6'2" (+/- 10%) since graduation. Before anyone points out this is overweight per BMI I had a decent level of muscle at the time (people asked if I was a receiver/defensive back in football or played baseball at my 20,000 student university) and I have continued to lift weights.
- In addition to resistance training have done a fair bit of running and biking (couple marathons and a century included)
- Have coached youth sports, and coached/mentored adult running training groups
- Get regular medical checkups and never on any heart/cholesterol medication so either extremely lucky or my diet/exercise practices are working for me from a health perspective
- Have undergone 8 orthopedic surgeries along with the associated rehab. Also survived and completely recovered from a case of sepsis that had me hospitalized for 7 days
- A lot of reading on health and fitness topics over the years
- Took a 40 hour live prep class and passed the ACE Personal Trainer Certification test for personal enrichment/challenge. Not working in the field.
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I have these problems. I look “normal” in clothes but other times theres more fat than I’d like. Like others said, gaining muscle is what you need to get your weight up!1
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.
That's fair, I assume you have some type of formal training/education to be working with nutrition counseling?
I suggested she should get some medical direction. I didn't specifically say, but I would take that to assume from a licensed professional.
To be clear, i do not carry any nutrition certifications, like 99% of the forum. I am not prescribing any specific plans (diet or exercise), specific supplements or counseling. I am self taught and have worked with people on this forum over the past decade to help them achieve their goals. Similarly, i also provide those services to people in real life with great results.
It doesn't require a PhD or MD to provide proven experience and follow evidence based practices. Just like I don't need to be a certified mechanic to work on my car (which btw, i have done clutch and flywheel, axel changes, brake jobs, timing belts, etc..) or a professional cook to be able to make amazing food.
So if that is your bar for knowledge, I would ask why you are on a forum full of non doctors? I am pretty sure a large majority of this forum over the past decade would agree that i provide fairly sound advice.
And given that you asked, what is your background? And what experience do you bring?
Thank you for clearing up your qualifications. Of course I don't expect everyone on an internet forum to be a trained expert. However, your comments on working with people, providing services to people, along with your title of MFP moderator, tends to imply, at least to me, you are doing this professionally where one would expect at least a bit of formal training to go along with life experiences and personal study. Sharing of personal experiences and study is great and can be helpful, but I do generally expect some level of training from someone doing something professionally.
My first comment on this post was for the OP to consider resistance training and a proper diet (not just add a bunch of calories, which of course could be a part of the diet). Later, I agreed with others that she should get some advice from a medical professional. The advice from a professional may well be eat more and lift weights. You apparently don't think any sort of professional medical advice is needed to check for any underlying issues. Personally, along with others on this thread, I think it's a good idea. We will have to agree to disagree.
You asked about my background and experiences:- Have attempted to live a healthy lifestyle, now in my 60's
- HS sports
- Have maintained my HS graduation weight of 200 lbs @ 6'2" (+/- 10%) since graduation. Before anyone points out this is overweight per BMI I had a decent level of muscle at the time (people asked if I was a receiver/defensive back in football or played baseball at my 20,000 student university) and I have continued to lift weights.
- In addition to resistance training have done a fair bit of running and biking (couple marathons and a century included)
- Have coached youth sports, and coached/mentored adult running training groups
- Get regular medical checkups and never on any heart/cholesterol medication so either extremely lucky or my diet/exercise practices are working for me from a health perspective
- Have undergone 8 orthopedic surgeries along with the associated rehab. Also survived and completely recovered from a case of sepsis that had me hospitalized for 7 days
- A lot of reading on health and fitness topics over the years
- Took a 40 hour live prep class and passed the ACE Personal Trainer Certification test for personal enrichment/challenge. Not working in the field.
Thank you for that.
First, as an FYI, to be a forum moderator, you do not need qualifications. You need the ability to enforce rules and have unbiased conversations. This is the 3rd forum I have modded, carrying over 20 years of experience.
I have played sports since I was three, to include college ice hockey for Penn State, hold a black belt in Tang Soo Do and lost 50lbs about 9 years ago and have kept if off since thing (+/- 5-7 lbs). I also also lifted in one shape or form for quite some time. The last time I test 1RM, I had a 250 bench, 280 squat, 350 deadlift and 225 pendlay row. Not overly impressive IMO but it was making progress prior to a shoulder injury (caused by kids).
Since I am not certified, I do not charge for my services. I do it because I have a passion for helping people. Every person I have worked with knows I am not professionally qualify and has not cared. When it comes down to it, the person who has knowledge and can keep a person accountable, will be the best choice. And if I cannot help a person hit their goals, then I recommend going to a professional. In my entire time doing this, there has been 1 person who I have been unable to help and I suspect she had underlying heath issues.
And on the medical front, I have helped my wife through eight surgeries (with 2 near deaths from tachycardia) and multiple years in a hospital from pancreatitis. Additionally, I have worked with my wife's team of cardiologist and electrophysiologist with her autonomic disorder (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome). A large part of that is diet and supplementation. During that time, I have had several doctors and medical professionals ask if I was in the field based on my knowledge.
Also, sorry about your sepsis. My wife's mother (kidney transplant precipitant) went through that 6 years ago while on vacation. It's horrible.8 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in he thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
Your innate caution is well placed. IMO, there is a pretty small % of the population where bulk/cut may be appropriate, As you say, someone who is not lifting and is concerned with BF sure isn't one of them.
A bulk is certainly not the best course of action for everyone. It's not usually the first thing I would recommend. But for someone who is already underweight and has what is likely low muscle mass, bulking first is likely the most appropriate strategy. They should not try to lose more or even "recomp", as their current weight is still not a healthy one.
The OP is clinically underweight and may possibly have some physical/mental issues going on. Telling her blindly eat 5-700 calories over maintenance as some have suggested, without medical direction/advice on diet is not appropriate IMO.
If the OP has some psychology issues, then that should be a discussion she should have with her doctor. But just because the OP is worried doesn't mean she has one. Its possible she just needs some education. Given the fact that i have worked with several women in the situation and others in this thread also have direct experience, i would suggest its not uncommon for underweight women or even men to deal with this situation. Low muscle mass makes it difficult to get a shapely body.
So while you are quick to criticize others without adding more context to her OP, I will provide a recommendation based on my experience.
That's fair, I assume you have some type of formal training/education to be working with nutrition counseling?
I suggested she should get some medical direction. I didn't specifically say, but I would take that to assume from a licensed professional.
To be clear, i do not carry any nutrition certifications, like 99% of the forum. I am not prescribing any specific plans (diet or exercise), specific supplements or counseling. I am self taught and have worked with people on this forum over the past decade to help them achieve their goals. Similarly, i also provide those services to people in real life with great results.
It doesn't require a PhD or MD to provide proven experience and follow evidence based practices. Just like I don't need to be a certified mechanic to work on my car (which btw, i have done clutch and flywheel, axel changes, brake jobs, timing belts, etc..) or a professional cook to be able to make amazing food.
So if that is your bar for knowledge, I would ask why you are on a forum full of non doctors? I am pretty sure a large majority of this forum over the past decade would agree that i provide fairly sound advice.
And given that you asked, what is your background? And what experience do you bring?
Thank you for clearing up your qualifications. Of course I don't expect everyone on an internet forum to be a trained expert. However, your comments on working with people, providing services to people, along with your title of MFP moderator, tends to imply, at least to me, you are doing this professionally where one would expect at least a bit of formal training to go along with life experiences and personal study. Sharing of personal experiences and study is great and can be helpful, but I do generally expect some level of training from someone doing something professionally.
My first comment on this post was for the OP to consider resistance training and a proper diet (not just add a bunch of calories, which of course could be a part of the diet). Later, I agreed with others that she should get some advice from a medical professional. The advice from a professional may well be eat more and lift weights. You apparently don't think any sort of professional medical advice is needed to check for any underlying issues. Personally, along with others on this thread, I think it's a good idea. We will have to agree to disagree.
You asked about my background and experiences:- Have attempted to live a healthy lifestyle, now in my 60's
- HS sports
- Have maintained my HS graduation weight of 200 lbs @ 6'2" (+/- 10%) since graduation. Before anyone points out this is overweight per BMI I had a decent level of muscle at the time (people asked if I was a receiver/defensive back in football or played baseball at my 20,000 student university) and I have continued to lift weights.
- In addition to resistance training have done a fair bit of running and biking (couple marathons and a century included)
- Have coached youth sports, and coached/mentored adult running training groups
- Get regular medical checkups and never on any heart/cholesterol medication so either extremely lucky or my diet/exercise practices are working for me from a health perspective
- Have undergone 8 orthopedic surgeries along with the associated rehab. Also survived and completely recovered from a case of sepsis that had me hospitalized for 7 days
- A lot of reading on health and fitness topics over the years
- Took a 40 hour live prep class and passed the ACE Personal Trainer Certification test for personal enrichment/challenge. Not working in the field.
Thank you for that.
First, as an FYI, to be a forum moderator, you do not need qualifications. You need the ability to enforce rules and have unbiased conversations. This is the 3rd forum I have modded, carrying over 20 years of experience.
I have played sports since I was three, to include college ice hockey for Penn State, hold a black belt in Tang Soo Do and lost 50lbs about 9 years ago and have kept if off since thing (+/- 5-7 lbs). I also also lifted in one shape or form for quite some time. The last time I test 1RM, I had a 250 bench, 280 squat, 350 deadlift and 225 pendlay row. Not overly impressive IMO but it was making progress prior to a shoulder injury (caused by kids).
Since I am not certified, I do not charge for my services. I do it because I have a passion for helping people. Every person I have worked with knows I am not professionally qualify and has not cared. When it comes down to it, the person who has knowledge and can keep a person accountable, will be the best choice. And if I cannot help a person hit their goals, then I recommend going to a professional. In my entire time doing this, there has been 1 person who I have been unable to help and I suspect she had underlying heath issues.
And on the medical front, I have helped my wife through eight surgeries (with 2 near deaths from tachycardia) and multiple years in a hospital from pancreatitis. Additionally, I have worked with my wife's team of cardiologist and electrophysiologist with her autonomic disorder (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome). A large part of that is diet and supplementation. During that time, I have had several doctors and medical professionals ask if I was in the field based on my knowledge.
Also, sorry about your sepsis. My wife's mother (kidney transplant precipitant) went through that 6 years ago while on vacation. It's horrible.
Thank you as well, lots of good background there. Picked some of it up in unfortunate ways though. Hope your wife is doing better.
The sepsis thing is nasty, also had it about 6 years ago. Hope your MIL came out of it okay. I was acquainted with one of the of the nurse's aides I had in the hospital (guy I met at the gym studying for EMT so he could get on with the fire department). He said, after it was clear I was recovering, that most people that came in like I did go out in a bodybag. He and the doctors said the fact that I took care of myself for all those years with diet and exercise saved my life. Those comments made me even more determined to live a healthy lifestyle. It may make me a bit preachy at times on health, but what can you do, you are the sum of your experiences.
I ended up with no ill effects from the sepsis, except that they tore my rotator cuff in the ER trying to help me into a MRI machine. Between the sepsis, rotator cuff surgery (had to wait several months for sepsis recovery to get it fixed) and surgery for a torn bicep tendon (other arm) not long after the rotator cuff healed it took about 2 years to start being fully able to do the things I wanted to do physically again. Had a lot of bonding experiences with my physical therapist.1 -
First I want to compliment the OP for such a reasoned question. She obviously thinks she has a fat problem, but is insightful enough to understand that her current approach might not be the best pathway.
I also want to compliment the comments in the thread for not instantly telling her she had body image issues and needed counseling. I cringed when I first read the OP because that is usually what happens and I find it often inappropriate.
However, I do think the rush to push “bulk/cut” cycles is very premature and ill-considered in a case like this. Especially since no one really knows what the specific situation is. For someone who doesn’t even understand the basic approach yet, getting into any kind of basic lifting program would be an important first step. Telling someone who is already concerned with excess body fat to add 500-700 calories a day to their diet does not strike me as the best starting point.
Maybe that’s just my innate caution.
I would never instantly tell someone they had body image issues - I would ask for a picture. I've seen plenty of posts by women bemoaning their "fat" thighs when they have perfectly normal thighs. We also have this long thread because women have an unrealistic expectation of what their stomachs should look like: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10689837/does-this-uterus-make-my-stomach-look-fat/p1
Due to our PhotoShop/Instagram culture (and going back long before that) many, especially young women, do have distorted body images, so I would want to rule that out.
However, everyone can benefit from strength training. My 82 year old mom is at the gym right now and I'm going to push away from the computer and go lift weights myself. (Note: I'm referring to strength training in general and do agree with you that “bulk/cut” might be premature.)
So @demimarie18, how about a picture? If you're not comfortable with that, how about discussing your perception that you are skinny fat with your GYN?7
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