Argh - swimming is NOT like riding a bike...
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I have been swimming for quite a while. What helps me is getting into a pattern of breathing. Your breathing in swimming should be just like your breathing in every day life. You should always either be breathing in or breathing out. LAT1963 recommended every 3rd stroke. I think that would be ideal for me, but for some reason, I always suck in water when I try to breath from the right side. So for me, I am always breathing every 2nd or 4th stroke. I often alternate between 2nd and 4th strokes during my swim depending on how I feel. There is no cookie-cutter answer. You just have to find what works best for you.
I'd like to ask a question if I may. I would like to break into the sprint triathlon scene too. I'm fine on the bike and in the water, but haven't done any running in 3+ years. Any training plan recommendations for the triathlon?0 -
Most of the Sprint Tris I looked at were 5ks so my first thought is a C25K program...I have been swimming for quite a while. What helps me is getting into a pattern of breathing. Your breathing in swimming should be just like your breathing in every day life. You should always either be breathing in or breathing out. LAT1963 recommended every 3rd stroke. I think that would be ideal for me, but for some reason, I always suck in water when I try to breath from the right side. So for me, I am always breathing every 2nd or 4th stroke. I often alternate between 2nd and 4th strokes during my swim depending on how I feel. There is no cookie-cutter answer. You just have to find what works best for you.
I'd like to ask a question if I may. I would like to break into the sprint triathlon scene too. I'm fine on the bike and in the water, but haven't done any running in 3+ years. Any training plan recommendations for the triathlon?
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moonangel12 wrote: »
What I have been watching/reading has a focus on using arms more than legs to save them for the rest of the course... focusing on proper form for that reason. I didn’t drag my limp lower body or anything, just didn’t rely on my legs for propulsion just to see where I was at and what I could (or could not) do in the water. Totally a “test the waters” swim session. I’m not trying to argue, nor am I setting anything in stone, just trying to figure it all out as I go. I have never done a multi sport event like this before so it will for sure be a learning process for me.moonangel12 wrote: »
More pool time would be ideal, but not much of an option in this season of life, especially with my daughter’s reaction to chlorine. Homeschool mom of 4, my husband is gone 12 hours a day, in school, preaches, etc. so evening time is family time as we can get it and not where I can leave for a couple hours multiple times a week (nearest indoor pool is 30+ minutes away).Do more exercises in, not out of, the water. Don’t not kick them during the swim (esp since they keep help keep your hips up and swimming really is a fluid, rhythmic full body motion not a disconnected bottom vs upper bifurcation). Strengthen them if they’re weak.
Leg strength isn’t an issue, just trying to use them as little as possible... I don’t want to overcompensate my weak upper body by wasting lower body energy to keep me going, if that makes sense. I want to work on proper form, but also realize I am lacking in the strength department for that.
Not using them still a bad idea imo (& my master swim coach’s/former Olympian) but if you’re set on it good luck.
How do you think you can focus on proper swimming form without kicking?
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Most of the Sprint Tris I looked at were 5ks so my first thought is a C25K program...
I was thinking about that, but I was hoping to find a training plan that would incorporate all three components. Otherwise, I had just planned on doing each (swim, bike, & run) twice a week.
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I'm not a Tri, but have been swimming for 23 years. I've found that instead of concentrating on your inhale, concentrate on your exhale. Then I'd look at core work, especially planking. Then I'd do some work with dumbells to strengthen your arms. Coordination will come, and I second getting lessons or advice from an expert watching you swim. Good luck.1
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Most of the Sprint Tris I looked at were 5ks so my first thought is a C25K program...
I was thinking about that, but I was hoping to find a training plan that would incorporate all three components. Otherwise, I had just planned on doing each (swim, bike, & run) twice a week.
while i haven't used this one specifically (I used their half iron plan, not their sprint one) - these is pretty simple:
http://www.trinewbies.com/tno_trainingprograms/10wtp.pdf1 -
Most of the Sprint Tris I looked at were 5ks so my first thought is a C25K program...
I was thinking about that, but I was hoping to find a training plan that would incorporate all three components. Otherwise, I had just planned on doing each (swim, bike, & run) twice a week.
This is another source for training plans, including free ones: https://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/trainingplans-list.asp.
I used to like this site a lot, haven't hung out there for ages, so cant speak for it now, but I've used their plans for oly tris.0 -
@mhdashler - In addition to the online sources mentioned above, if you want a hardcopy plan, Joe Friels book "Your First Triathlon: race ready in 5 hrs per week" has a complete guide to how to start preparing for a race, including exercises, workouts and training plans for Sprint and Olympic distance races.
Re: swimming, I agree with @snowflake954 that a focus on exhaling is very helpful. That's why a lot of new swimmers like the "Bubbles... Bubbles.... BREATH" mantra. It helps to concentrate on exhaling bubbles rather than trying to hold your breath and then your lungs are empty as you turn your head to inhale. When done in sync, this avoids the need to finish exhaling when your head is out of the water, then "gulp" for air before continuing.
Curious about what my mfp tri friends think, but regarding the "kick vs no kick" approach in triathlon swimming, my guess is that it comes from the fact that 1)in triathlon training and racing, a wetsuit will allow you to float, so you don't "have" to kick in order to move, and 2) for many triathletes coming from a non swimming background (like me) weak kicking and poor kicking can use a lot of energy, so they try to "save their legs" by limiting their kicks. This can present other problems like sinking legs, poor body position, lack of rotation, etc. With that said, learning to kick is key to developing a good swim stroke.
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@mhdashler - In addition to the online sources mentioned above, if you want a hardcopy plan, Joe Friels book "Your First Triathlon: race ready in 5 hrs per week" has a complete guide to how to start preparing for a race, including exercises, workouts and training plans for Sprint and Olympic distance races.
Re: swimming, I agree with @snowflake954 that a focus on exhaling is very helpful. That's why a lot of new swimmers like the "Bubbles... Bubbles.... BREATH" mantra. It helps to concentrate on exhaling bubbles rather than trying to hold your breath and then your lungs are empty as you turn your head to inhale. When done in sync, this avoids the need to finish exhaling when your head is out of the water, then "gulp" for air before continuing.
Curious about what my mfp tri friends think, but regarding the "kick vs no kick" approach in triathlon swimming, my guess is that it comes from the fact that 1)in triathlon training and racing, a wetsuit will allow you to float, so you don't "have" to kick in order to move, and 2) for many triathletes coming from a non swimming background (like me) weak kicking and poor kicking can use a lot of energy, so they try to "save their legs" by limiting their kicks. This can present other problems like sinking legs, poor body position, lack of rotation, etc. With that said, learning to kick is key to developing a good swim stroke.
what's the saying - you can't win a tri on the swim but you can lose it - IMHO, many triathlete's don't spend near enough time in the pool - its always seen as the hardest part of the training vs. the running/riding which you can easily do from home1 -
deannalfisher wrote: »@mhdashler - In addition to the online sources mentioned above, if you want a hardcopy plan, Joe Friels book "Your First Triathlon: race ready in 5 hrs per week" has a complete guide to how to start preparing for a race, including exercises, workouts and training plans for Sprint and Olympic distance races.
Re: swimming, I agree with @snowflake954 that a focus on exhaling is very helpful. That's why a lot of new swimmers like the "Bubbles... Bubbles.... BREATH" mantra. It helps to concentrate on exhaling bubbles rather than trying to hold your breath and then your lungs are empty as you turn your head to inhale. When done in sync, this avoids the need to finish exhaling when your head is out of the water, then "gulp" for air before continuing.
Curious about what my mfp tri friends think, but regarding the "kick vs no kick" approach in triathlon swimming, my guess is that it comes from the fact that 1)in triathlon training and racing, a wetsuit will allow you to float, so you don't "have" to kick in order to move, and 2) for many triathletes coming from a non swimming background (like me) weak kicking and poor kicking can use a lot of energy, so they try to "save their legs" by limiting their kicks. This can present other problems like sinking legs, poor body position, lack of rotation, etc. With that said, learning to kick is key to developing a good swim stroke.
what's the saying - you can't win a tri on the swim but you can lose it - IMHO, many triathlete's don't spend near enough time in the pool - its always seen as the hardest part of the training vs. the running/riding which you can easily do from home
Agree. And it also comes down to "training your weaknesses". I have to make an effort to do pool swims because I need the work, vs running and riding which I do by default anyway.
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Check USA Triathlon and Triathlete magazine sites for free training plans.2
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I have been swimming for quite a while. What helps me is getting into a pattern of breathing. Your breathing in swimming should be just like your breathing in every day life. You should always either be breathing in or breathing out. LAT1963 recommended every 3rd stroke. I think that would be ideal for me, but for some reason, I always suck in water when I try to breath from the right side. So for me, I am always breathing every 2nd or 4th stroke. I often alternate between 2nd and 4th strokes during my swim depending on how I feel. There is no cookie-cutter answer. You just have to find what works best for you.
I'd like to ask a question if I may. I would like to break into the sprint triathlon scene too. I'm fine on the bike and in the water, but haven't done any running in 3+ years. Any training plan recommendations for the triathlon?
Check this out:
“ Second, I suggest starting the breath earlier in your stroke cycle. If a swimmer feels she can’t get a full breath of air on her weak side, it’s likely because she is starting to turn her head too late. Your head should begin to rotate as soon as you start to extend the opposite hand forward. But remember: Never lift your head forward to breathe. Your head should rotate directly to your side as you roll your hips in the same direction.”
https://www.triathlete.com/2018/01/training/triathlon-training-jump-on-the-bilateral-breathing-bandwagon_5401 -
Not into tris here, but as a new swimmer who can't afford a coach, it was suggested that I look into goswim.com. Some of the videos were really helpful in terms of form and technique. I needed to see what I was supposed to do, not hear or read it (if that makes sense). I have found that a 2 beat kick works well for me. I never figured out how to just kick like everybody else. Also, when I learned bilateral breathing, it was a game changer as others have said re: breathing every 3rd stroke.1
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I have been swimming for quite a while. What helps me is getting into a pattern of breathing. Your breathing in swimming should be just like your breathing in every day life. You should always either be breathing in or breathing out. LAT1963 recommended every 3rd stroke. I think that would be ideal for me, but for some reason, I always suck in water when I try to breath from the right side. So for me, I am always breathing every 2nd or 4th stroke. I often alternate between 2nd and 4th strokes during my swim depending on how I feel. There is no cookie-cutter answer. You just have to find what works best for you.
I'd like to ask a question if I may. I would like to break into the sprint triathlon scene too. I'm fine on the bike and in the water, but haven't done any running in 3+ years. Any training plan recommendations for the triathlon?
Check this out:
“ Second, I suggest starting the breath earlier in your stroke cycle. If a swimmer feels she can’t get a full breath of air on her weak side, it’s likely because she is starting to turn her head too late. Your head should begin to rotate as soon as you start to extend the opposite hand forward. But remember: Never lift your head forward to breathe. Your head should rotate directly to your side as you roll your hips in the same direction.”
https://www.triathlete.com/2018/01/training/triathlon-training-jump-on-the-bilateral-breathing-bandwagon_540
@lorrpb - Good stuff there.
@girlswithcurls2: Another one I like is the animated online visualization tool called "mr swim smooth".0 -
This literally just popped up on my feed. One of the best articles I’ve seen on swimming technique. Obviously you can’t do it all at once, but everyone can find a few immediate tips.
http://www.220triathlon.com/training/swim/how-to-swim-faster-15-ways-to-hone-your-front-crawl-technique/12635.html
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Thank you everyone! The tips and videos are very much appreciated! Going to check them out now that school work is winding down for the day...1
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moonangel12 wrote: »
There are way better resources out there! I’d suggest talking to swimmers over triathletes, the closer to pro the better. Colleges can actually be a wonderful resource as they often employ competitive staff. That’s where I found my Masters gem.
Talk with those guys. And have fun with your sprint! The first one is usually just about getting out there, finishing it, and having fun 1 -
There is a group here called Swimmers!, come by and check us out.
We have all levels beginners to distant swimmers.
The group is active and has a lot of advice.1 -
Not a triathlete here by any means but have a lot of experience with open water lake and ocean swimming - I breathe every second or third stroke, side preference depends on which way the chop/waves come, and for the kick, I find a scissor kick gets me the most distance with least energy expenditure and more stability in rough water.2
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kenyonhaff wrote: »Also...your friendly (and bored) lifeguard is almost guaranteed to be a current or former competitive swimmer, AND often teaches swimming skills. There is often on staff someone who coaches swim team.
Asking for feedback and suggestions while swimming (as long as you don't abuse it) is often free. And did I mention your lifeguard is often bored and watching you anyway?
Also, you can ask if there's a swim teacher/coach that could offer a consultation.
Please don’t bother the lifeguards with swimming questions. Guarding other people’s lives is more important then your breast stroke.2 -
Lap attempt #2 went smoother than the first. Still a lot to improve on, but I did get into a good rhythm breathing and didn’t try to drown myself
I did 3 or 4 laps freestyle, a couple breast stroke, and a few back stroke to break it up... 10 laps, just under 9 minutes. When I bike or run I feel like I have gained some ground with my endurance level, but in the pool? A totally different story - it wears me out! I am getting winded so quickly. I think a lot of it is getting the breathing right, but also still the upper body weakness coming into play. We were short on time for a variety of reasons, but I am hoping to do some more next week (went ahead and scheduled racquetball court time to hopefully get us there earlier. 2 -
Slow down and everything will go better!1
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I was thinking that might be helpful, it’s so hard to gauge “fast” or “slow” in the water...Slow down and everything will go better!
Just 25 minutes at the pool yesterday and my daughter woke up with croup this morning, going into stridor (thankfully a steamy bathroom eased it up. Still no voice, but she can breathe). No more indoor pool for her
and she’s the one that enjoys it the most! My husband said we’ll figure something out to get me to the pool... I can’t in good conscience take her in anymore.
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Your poor kiddo
I don't blame you. Someday, I hope you are near a saltwater pool so you can both enjoy it. Respiratory issues, especially with children, are so scary.
I have had to slow down in the pool too. As a new swimmer, I felt like I couldn't keep myself in the right body position unless I was moving at a minimum speed. As I got stronger, I was able to be more rhythmic and slow down. 10 laps in 9 minutes is way faster than I swim. I had to let go of trying to be too fast though. I realized that my goal was form (and good muscle memory) and overall endurance. I wanted to be able to just keep swimming.
Keep it up and keep us posted! (And feel free to join the group called "Swimmers!" They're super helpful and nice over there!. ) 0 -
It's funny (in the interesting sense) that you wrote a post combining cycling and swimming.
At 60+ yo, overweight, out of shape/health issues, etc., but with strong water skills (including being a fmr. scuba instructor), and former touring cyclist (also decades ago), I recently kicked myself back into a higher activity level using both sports (well, swimming, not diving) after decades away from both.
I am in NJ, living a few miles from the beach. In summer, I ride to the beach/pool, swim, then ride home. I find the combination is great for me, and helps both activities, as cycling does the legs more and swimming does the upper body more. I lose weight, both are good cardio, etc. I cycle most of the year now, both on and off road.
Not swimming much in the winter (there is a pay-by-session pool several towns away I use occ.), I do use my gym for indoor cycling and core strengthening. This approach works for me.
Hope you find a combo that works for you. In any case, start with a realistic assessment of your current state (physiological and sports-skills wise) and develop to a goal state through graduated and repeated development. It takes a while.
For swimming, for instance, while I am super comfortable in the water, rediscovering how to properly do the classic strokes took some time. It was deflating to accept I was not who I used to be; but then, who I was now wasn't who I could be, so I set goals and have made great progress. Someone in this thread suggested lessons - they can be great, too. I'm far better now in all ways than I was 2 years ago.1 -
You perfectly put into words how I feel! Thank you for the encouragement!For swimming, for instance, while I am super comfortable in the water, rediscovering how to properly do the classic strokes took some time. It was deflating to accept I was not who I used to be; but then, who I was now wasn't who I could be, so I set goals and have made great progress. Someone in this thread suggested lessons - they can be great, too. I'm far better now in all ways than I was 2 years ago.
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@mhdashler - In addition to the online sources mentioned above, if you want a hardcopy plan, Joe Friels book "Your First Triathlon: race ready in 5 hrs per week" has a complete guide to how to start preparing for a race, including exercises, workouts and training plans for Sprint and Olympic distance races.
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I like Joe Friel's book, "Cycling After 50" which discusses the older cyclist's approach. He seems to be a good all-around author in this field.1 -
Ha! Yeah that's why water courses have the highest attrition rates - the breathing thing.
No worries - this will come over time. Swimming is a pretty alien task for humans at first and just takes time. I'd get a trainer to check your form and spend a good deal of time with floats and a kickboard while you adjust. It will seem unnatural at first, because it is.
I train people with the side stroke to get them used to breathing and holding head position to adjust to freestyle/front crawl and rolling your head into position to inhale.
Also helps if you exhale a steady stream as opposed to a quick burst out.
When sitting practice breathing and expanding your lungs - do this quick/easy exercise -
Warrior breathing:
5 count inhale
5 count hold
5 count exhale
5 count hold
repeat
As you progress increase the count to 15 second counts or whatever you can take until this becomes your new normal.0 -
Oddly enough I’m the opposite. Didn’t swim for nearly fifteen years, hopped in one day and was happy as a fish. Riding a bike however... Well, let’s just say I’m lucky I can keep it upright.1
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