Cardiometabolic diet finally broke my plateau
morihay
Posts: 50 Member
I'm under a dr care (so we get that out of the way) I was 73 pounds over weight I have kidney disease and had extremely high blood pressure I successfully lost 42 pounds no restrictions just CICO, hit a plateau for almost 2 months dr recommended the cardiometabolic diet, it's a modified Mediterranean diet (more protein) and bam a pound off every 2 days yes I'm eating enough I'm actually eating way more!! I'm sure the woosh will slow down but I have never made it past a plateau before I always just gave up, I had a fear of eating more but 500 calories more and food adjustments were just what I needed 21 pounds to go!!
14
Replies
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According to https://richmondfunctionalmedicine.com/nutrition/metabolic-food-plan/, the diet is designed for:
"Those with risk factors for cardiovascular disease (CVD)
Those with risk factors for dysfunctional metabolic conditions such as metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes (T2D), or elevated cholesterol/triglycerides.
Those with CVD (e.g., high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and elevated blood fats)
Those with metabolic syndrome (e.g., high blood sugar, increased belly fat, low testosterone, PCOS)
Those with Type II Diabetes or Pre-Diabetes."
Based on this: https://www.hchcares.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Cardio_Food_Plan_Comprehensive_Guide.pdf, however, it just looks like a basic healthy eating plan to me, except for calling normal foods that are commonly eaten (IME) "therapeutic foods."
Anyway, seems like a healthy enough way to eat, although again not so different from lots of unnamed ways of eating. If one were eating a nutrition-conscious diet already I wouldn't think it would be much of a change.8 -
Key for me was giving up the idea that all carbs were the same I had been eating just ok
I already didnt eat fastfood or junk but I was still eating simple carbs( white bread, pasta, sugar ect) but staying within my MFP calories the switch to whole wheat and good carbs and not fretting about how many carbs, I did that to my self all the years listening to keto and the likes, In my mind all carbs were the devil I should have known better yes, and probably why I have had trouble dieting to goal
8 -
Key for me was giving up the idea that all carbs were the same I had been eating just ok
I already didnt eat fastfood or junk but I was still eating simple carbs( white bread, pasta, sugar ect) but staying within my MFP calories the switch to whole wheat and good carbs and not fretting about how many carbs, I did that to my self all the years listening to keto and the likes, In my mind all carbs were the devil I should have known better yes, and probably why I have had trouble dieting to goal
For the purpose of weight loss only, all calories are exactly the same. There are no carbs or other foods that are inherently good or bad for weight loss. For nutrition, of course, one needs to get all the necessary macro and micronutrients.
For specific health conditions or personal preference, one may need to restrict carbs in some way.
I’m glad you have found a diet that’s appropriate for your medical needs.15 -
Key for me was giving up the idea that all carbs were the same I had been eating just ok
I already didnt eat fastfood or junk but I was still eating simple carbs( white bread, pasta, sugar ect) but staying within my MFP calories the switch to whole wheat and good carbs and not fretting about how many carbs, I did that to my self all the years listening to keto and the likes, In my mind all carbs were the devil I should have known better yes, and probably why I have had trouble dieting to goal
For the purpose of weight loss only, all calories are exactly the same. There are no carbs or other foods that are inherently good or bad for weight loss. For nutrition, of course, one needs to get all the necessary macro and micronutrients.
For specific health conditions or personal preference, one may need to restrict carbs in some way.
I’m glad you have found a diet that’s appropriate for your medical needs.
That is just not true. High protein and high fiber diets have repeatedly demonstrated improved satiety and better weight loss results, even when calories were equated.
Overall, it' looks like a diet based on whole foods. So it's pretty healthy. Glad it's working.8 -
Key for me was giving up the idea that all carbs were the same I had been eating just ok
I already didnt eat fastfood or junk but I was still eating simple carbs( white bread, pasta, sugar ect) but staying within my MFP calories the switch to whole wheat and good carbs and not fretting about how many carbs, I did that to my self all the years listening to keto and the likes, In my mind all carbs were the devil I should have known better yes, and probably why I have had trouble dieting to goal
FYI, all sugars are simple carbs, all starches are complex carbs so the white bread and pasta are primarily complex carbs (with some sugars in the bread so it is partially simple). Eating carb heavy foods with a decent amount of fiber is very helpful both for regulating blood sugar and for satiety. Eating any foods that are nutrient dense is good for overall health.8 -
Lol well I'm sure I stated it wrong I can never remember everything the dr said how she said it I just remember what she told me to try and not eat and what to eat more of
But it started moving my weight again so I will go with dr advice for me and it worked so obviously for me all calories all carbs are not the same I have never been able to make it past a plateau in my whole life always stuck one time for a year!! I guess I was posting my excitment that I found what worked for me and but for some reason that made people angry 🤷♀️11 -
Key for me was giving up the idea that all carbs were the same I had been eating just ok
I already didnt eat fastfood or junk but I was still eating simple carbs( white bread, pasta, sugar ect) but staying within my MFP calories the switch to whole wheat and good carbs and not fretting about how many carbs, I did that to my self all the years listening to keto and the likes, In my mind all carbs were the devil I should have known better yes, and probably why I have had trouble dieting to goal
For the purpose of weight loss only, all calories are exactly the same. There are no carbs or other foods that are inherently good or bad for weight loss. For nutrition, of course, one needs to get all the necessary macro and micronutrients.
For specific health conditions or personal preference, one may need to restrict carbs in some way.
I’m glad you have found a diet that’s appropriate for your medical needs.That is just not true. High protein and high fiber diets have repeatedly demonstrated improved satiety and better weight loss results, even when calories were equated.
Overall, it' looks like a diet based on whole foods. So it's pretty healthy. Glad it's working.
I think you're both right
@apullum would be more right in a laboratory condition where participants had no choice in what they ate.
@psuLemon's answer is more practical, as most of us are not in labs, and so satiety and compliance is very relevant.9 -
Lol well I'm sure I stated it wrong I can never remember everything the dr said how she said it I just remember what she told me to try and not eat and what to eat more of
But it started moving my weight again so I will go with dr advice for me and it worked so obviously for me all calories all carbs are not the same I have never been able to make it past a plateau in my whole life always stuck one time for a year!! I guess I was posting my excitment that I found what worked for me and but for some reason that made people angry 🤷♀️
While I'm not a mind reader, I have been on these forums for 6 years and very much doubt anyone is angry - people are just sharing information
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kshama2001 wrote: »Key for me was giving up the idea that all carbs were the same I had been eating just ok
I already didnt eat fastfood or junk but I was still eating simple carbs( white bread, pasta, sugar ect) but staying within my MFP calories the switch to whole wheat and good carbs and not fretting about how many carbs, I did that to my self all the years listening to keto and the likes, In my mind all carbs were the devil I should have known better yes, and probably why I have had trouble dieting to goal
For the purpose of weight loss only, all calories are exactly the same. There are no carbs or other foods that are inherently good or bad for weight loss. For nutrition, of course, one needs to get all the necessary macro and micronutrients.
For specific health conditions or personal preference, one may need to restrict carbs in some way.
I’m glad you have found a diet that’s appropriate for your medical needs.That is just not true. High protein and high fiber diets have repeatedly demonstrated improved satiety and better weight loss results, even when calories were equated.
Overall, it' looks like a diet based on whole foods. So it's pretty healthy. Glad it's working.
I think you're both right
@apullum would be more right in a laboratory condition where participants had no choice in what they ate.
@psuLemon's answer is more practical, as most of us are not in labs, and so satiety and compliance is very relevant.
I agree, except I would point out that what leads to satiety is somewhat individual and more complicated than merely fiber and protein.
Of course, if someone were complaining about hunger and cals were in check and the diet seemed low in fiber and/or protein, that would be my first recommendation.
But...
One of the most sating foods is potatoes, which are pretty low in both fiber and protein.
People who eat higher fiber diets seem to often be able to eat low protein without issue, and vice versa.
More to the point, plenty of people who do keto seem to not be high in protein or fiber, but have no hunger issues, and similarly I've seen people doing WFPB or other similar and been fine on lower protein even if fiber was not especially high (fruit and veg on their own can be high volume without being especially high fiber in the absence of beans/lentils).
Also, I really do think the source of both matters. In the ultra processed vs not study, consuming fiber from powder in drinks did not seem that effective, and for me at least adding protein powder or not seems to make no difference in how filling something is (which is nice because I wanted to stop using it and I did).
Some find plain oatmeal extremely sating and some find it makes them immediately hungry.
I used to think protein was the key to breakfast being satiating, but I've found it really does not matter. Eggs plus veg is sating for me (even though it's not high in fiber or protein) even if I don't add the cottage cheese or greek yogurt I used to find necessary. My current smoothie based on fruit, veg, and nuts and seeds is filling whether I add beans (high fiber, some protein), tofu (more protein), or neither. But some find meals they drink not sating at all.
In any case, I do think some ways of eating will be more or less filling for different people and finding one that works for you will make a huge difference for being able to stick with a calorie goal or, especially, not overeating in the absence of logging or other such tools.
But the fact remains that if calories are truly equal weight loss should be the same, roughly, over time (and absent a change in activity), so what apullum said is of course right.
What I suspect might have happened in OP's case, unless it was just waiting out a stall as it often is, is that change up the diet and eating new things can sometimes lead to an inadvertent decrease in cals or better logging, especially if the foods eaten are easier to log correctly.
Anyway, although I don't understand how this named diet is different than various other ways of eating, it seems like a nutrient dense and reasonable way of eating and I also think it's great if someone finds such a way of eating that they like.14 -
Key for me was giving up the idea that all carbs were the same I had been eating just ok
I already didnt eat fastfood or junk but I was still eating simple carbs( white bread, pasta, sugar ect) but staying within my MFP calories the switch to whole wheat and good carbs and not fretting about how many carbs, I did that to my self all the years listening to keto and the likes, In my mind all carbs were the devil I should have known better yes, and probably why I have had trouble dieting to goal
For the purpose of weight loss only, all calories are exactly the same. There are no carbs or other foods that are inherently good or bad for weight loss. For nutrition, of course, one needs to get all the necessary macro and micronutrients.
For specific health conditions or personal preference, one may need to restrict carbs in some way.
I’m glad you have found a diet that’s appropriate for your medical needs.
That is just not true. High protein and high fiber diets have repeatedly demonstrated improved satiety and better weight loss results, even when calories were equated.
Overall, it' looks like a diet based on whole foods. So it's pretty healthy. Glad it's working.
What do you mean by when calories are equated? Do you have examples of studies where people consume the same amount of calories and lose more weight based on a certain macro composition?
I understand the satiety argument (although personally I do not find protein to very satiating), but if intake is equal, then loss should be equal. Otherwise the whole idea of this site is flawed.7 -
Key for me was giving up the idea that all carbs were the same I had been eating just ok
I already didnt eat fastfood or junk but I was still eating simple carbs( white bread, pasta, sugar ect) but staying within my MFP calories the switch to whole wheat and good carbs and not fretting about how many carbs, I did that to my self all the years listening to keto and the likes, In my mind all carbs were the devil I should have known better yes, and probably why I have had trouble dieting to goal
For the purpose of weight loss only, all calories are exactly the same. There are no carbs or other foods that are inherently good or bad for weight loss. For nutrition, of course, one needs to get all the necessary macro and micronutrients.
For specific health conditions or personal preference, one may need to restrict carbs in some way.
I’m glad you have found a diet that’s appropriate for your medical needs.
That is just not true. High protein and high fiber diets have repeatedly demonstrated improved satiety and better weight loss results, even when calories were equated.
Overall, it' looks like a diet based on whole foods. So it's pretty healthy. Glad it's working.
What do you mean by when calories are equated? Do you have examples of studies where people consume the same amount of calories and lose more weight based on a certain macro composition?
I understand the satiety argument (although personally I do not find protein to very satiating), but if intake is equal, then loss should be equal. Otherwise the whole idea of this site is flawed.
I don't have time to go down the rabbit hole, but you can start with the link below. Its one i have personally argues against in the past.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets#section1
ETA: if there is one thing that is guaranteed, if a low carb or keto study favors them, the first question on this board is; are calories and protein equated.3 -
So basically that ad libitum diets with more protein tend to lead to at least a short-term decrease in cals?
I think that's usually true, but I think there's another important reason in the low carb case here, which is that a dramatic change in diet in the short term leads to fewer cals than a mild change in diet (which keeping fat to under 30% is vs. how the low carb diet is usually defined).4 -
Key for me was giving up the idea that all carbs were the same I had been eating just ok
I already didnt eat fastfood or junk but I was still eating simple carbs( white bread, pasta, sugar ect) but staying within my MFP calories the switch to whole wheat and good carbs and not fretting about how many carbs, I did that to my self all the years listening to keto and the likes, In my mind all carbs were the devil I should have known better yes, and probably why I have had trouble dieting to goal
FYI, all sugars are simple carbs, all starches are complex carbs so the white bread and pasta are primarily complex carbs (with some sugars in the bread so it is partially simple). Eating carb heavy foods with a decent amount of fiber is very helpful both for regulating blood sugar and for satiety. Eating any foods that are nutrient dense is good for overall health.
I re read my post and I think part of what I said can be misinterpreted and it is my fault because I wasn't clear.
I am not saying one should eat a carb and fiber heavy meal in order to feel sated, I was trying to say that a high carb food WITH fiber is more satiating than a high carb food without fiber. Whole grains, whole fruit instead of juice, potato with the peel instead of without, etc.
Sorry for the confusion.8 -
To the question of iso caloric diet having different results we could become really nit picky and ask if it is iso caloric before factoring in TEF, or after?
In any case the base of the pyramid is clear and it is that the diet (way of eating) that individually works best for each one of us will always win, for that person, by a landslide, regardless of a marginal advantage some other way of eating may offer.
It doesn't mean we shouldn't experiment with different ways of eating. To the contrary. I bet that I am not the only person who at different times in life has done better with different types of eating.
So really it boils down to a willingness to continue to engage and continue to adapt.2 -
In any case the base of the pyramid is clear and it is that the diet (way of eating) that individually works best for each one of us will always win, for that person, by a landslide, regardless of a marginal advantage some other way of eating may offer.
It doesn't mean we shouldn't experiment with different ways of eating. To the contrary. I bet that I am not the only person who at different times in life has done better with different types of eating.
This^!
@MikePTY and @lemurcat2 thank you for sharing your personal experiences with protein and satiety. I often think I must be an anomaly for not finding protein particularly satiating. Especially protein powders! There are so many "studies"(most likely funded by the PP industry)on how whey and/or casein proteins are perfect for satisfying hunger. Not in my case. Many people on this forum recommend Greek yogurt with fruit as a satiating snack/meal. Greek yogurt doesn't blunt my hunger one bit. I like it sweetened with some frozen berries and/or cocoa powder as a dessert but not as a stand alone. Just as @PAV8888, @lemurcat2 and @MikePTY so wisely pointed out, we all have to find a way of eating that satisfies our unique selves. That requires trial, sometimes/often error and practice.
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I'm diabetic and am doing the Sugar Busters diet which seems similar to what you are doing. For people with certain conditions it does seem that the way your body processes foods requires a change in what those foods are. Excess insulin has been found to make it easier to store fat and harder to burn it for example. And before someone screams "CICO ONLY" this is to say that these conditions affect calories out especially if you eat in a way that's not optimal for your condition.7
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This plan is basically identical to what my nutritionist mapped out for me years ago. I think it's wonderful that your physician brought it up and wish you continued success.4
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"FYI, all sugars are simple carbs, all starches are complex carbs so the white bread and pasta are primarily complex carbs (with some sugars in the bread so it is partially simple). Eating carb heavy foods with a decent amount of fiber is very helpful both for regulating blood sugar and for satiety. Eating any foods that are nutrient dense is good for overall health."
You just said that complex carbs are the same sugars, but combined in long chains, which break so quickly in the mouth, stomach and bowels. What the difference, what carbs you consume, simple or complex?... Result is still the same: high blood sugar like short peak or for extended period. Our goal for health and for weight loss to keep it low. But if you consume "healthy slow carb" oatmeal your blood glucose will rise slowly and stays at high for long period of time. If glucose is high, your pancreas releases insulin. While the insulin is in the blood, you are not going to loose ever even 1 gram of fat. If you aware, the body works only in 2 ways:gaining fat or using fat for fuel.
If you want the fat to be used for fuel (loose fat) you have to be at fasting state or consume food which don t rise your insulin ( only fat or protein can do it).
AL CARBS, INCLUDING HEALTHY FRUITS and WHOLE GRAIN BREADS INCREASE INSULIN, NO WAY AROUND!!!!
1 -
"FYI, all sugars are simple carbs, all starches are complex carbs so the white bread and pasta are primarily complex carbs (with some sugars in the bread so it is partially simple). Eating carb heavy foods with a decent amount of fiber is very helpful both for regulating blood sugar and for satiety. Eating any foods that are nutrient dense is good for overall health."
You just said that complex carbs are the same sugars, but combined in long chains, which break so quickly in the mouth, stomach and bowels. What the difference, what carbs you consume, simple or complex?... Result is still the same: high blood sugar like short peak or for extended period. Our goal for health and for weight loss to keep it low. But if you consume "healthy slow carb" oatmeal your blood glucose will rise slowly and stays at high for long period of time. If glucose is high, your pancreas releases insulin. While the insulin is in the blood, you are not going to loose ever even 1 gram of fat. If you aware, the body works only in 2 ways:gaining fat or using fat for fuel.
If you want the fat to be used for fuel (loose fat) you have to be at fasting state or consume food which don t rise your insulin ( only fat or protein can do it).
AL CARBS, INCLUDING HEALTHY FRUITS and WHOLE GRAIN BREADS INCREASE INSULIN, NO WAY AROUND!!!!
What now? Nooooooneee of this is true.2 -
"FYI, all sugars are simple carbs, all starches are complex carbs so the white bread and pasta are primarily complex carbs (with some sugars in the bread so it is partially simple). Eating carb heavy foods with a decent amount of fiber is very helpful both for regulating blood sugar and for satiety. Eating any foods that are nutrient dense is good for overall health."
You just said that complex carbs are the same sugars, but combined in long chains, which break so quickly in the mouth, stomach and bowels. What the difference, what carbs you consume, simple or complex?... Result is still the same: high blood sugar like short peak or for extended period. Our goal for health and for weight loss to keep it low. But if you consume "healthy slow carb" oatmeal your blood glucose will rise slowly and stays at high for long period of time. If glucose is high, your pancreas releases insulin. While the insulin is in the blood, you are not going to loose ever even 1 gram of fat. If you aware, the body works only in 2 ways:gaining fat or using fat for fuel.
If you want the fat to be used for fuel (loose fat) you have to be at fasting state or consume food which don t rise your insulin ( only fat or protein can do it).
AL CARBS, INCLUDING HEALTHY FRUITS and WHOLE GRAIN BREADS INCREASE INSULIN, NO WAY AROUND!!!!
Partially correct. Insulin inhibits lipolysis, it doesn't shut it down. Given insulin will return to baseline at a point (depending on several factors like carb load, fat/protein content and fiber), your body will go back into lipolysis. This also doesn't get into the fact that every nutrient does raise insulin to some level. It also doesn't get into the fact that even in metabolic ward studies, when protein was constant, that there was no difference in fat loss between keto diets and a high sugar diet.
But you are definitely correct that all carbs spike insulin, but so does protein and fat. BTW, fatty acids also suppress an enzyme called hormone sensitive lipase (HSL). It's also known as a fat burning hormone. In the end, if you consume calories, your body will metabolize them. Our bodies are designed to store nutrients.
And I can speak from experience that my fat loss is no different on a ketogenic diet (my current diet) as it was on a high carb diet (the one I lost and kept off 50 lbs over 9 years ago).
Where insulin management is required is for those who have insulin issues. Chronic elevation, not acute elevation, is where consuming carbs becomes a huge issue and where keto/low carb diets are awesome. So if you have IR, PCOS, a lot of autoimmune issues, or are largely obese, than cutting back on some carbs would be highly beneficial. But if you don't have those concerns, than consuming carbs shouldn't be too much of a worry. Although, I would generally advocate that a person should focus on whole foods, adequate protein and fiber, and than let fats and carbs all out based on satiety, training and personal preference. I would also advocate for removing or severely limiting ultra processed foods.3 -
"FYI, all sugars are simple carbs, all starches are complex carbs so the white bread and pasta are primarily complex carbs (with some sugars in the bread so it is partially simple). Eating carb heavy foods with a decent amount of fiber is very helpful both for regulating blood sugar and for satiety. Eating any foods that are nutrient dense is good for overall health."
You just said that complex carbs are the same sugars, but combined in long chains, which break so quickly in the mouth, stomach and bowels. What the difference, what carbs you consume, simple or complex?... Result is still the same: high blood sugar like short peak or for extended period. Our goal for health and for weight loss to keep it low. But if you consume "healthy slow carb" oatmeal your blood glucose will rise slowly and stays at high for long period of time. If glucose is high, your pancreas releases insulin. While the insulin is in the blood, you are not going to loose ever even 1 gram of fat. If you aware, the body works only in 2 ways:gaining fat or using fat for fuel.
If you want the fat to be used for fuel (loose fat) you have to be at fasting state or consume food which don t rise your insulin ( only fat or protein can do it).
AL CARBS, INCLUDING HEALTHY FRUITS and WHOLE GRAIN BREADS INCREASE INSULIN, NO WAY AROUND!!!!
What now? Nooooooneee of this is true.
Technically, the last sentence is correct. All carbs does increase insulin. But that isn't a bad thing. It shuttles nutrients into the cell. It's also prevents protein breakdown, which is great for gaining muscle. And as Dr. Attia puts it, carbs are like rocket fuel. So they are fantastic for exercise and recovery.2
This discussion has been closed.
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