More calories when sick?
Replies
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Seriously? If course it applies to humans. We are basically mammals too.
so all mammals can all have the same diet and should be okay? Tell that to my vet! If I fed my cats nothing but the same diet one would give a horse, my cats would be suffering greatly from malnutrition. I can eat grapes and raisins as a snack if I'd like, but give them to my cats, and I'll be poisoning them. I enjoy chocolate; give chocolate to a dog or a cat and you're risking them going into heart failure. And so on. A human baby needs human milk or formula made as close a possible; raise an infant on nothing but cow's or goat's milk, and you will be doing serious harm to the child. Baby cows and goats, however, grow up healthy and strong.
Being built on the same basic blueprint certainly does not mean we're all alike. Put regular 87 octane in a nascar race car and tell me how well it will run in the race.10 -
Anyways, this tangent was not part of what I was asking. The last few instances of posting on the message boards, my questions have hardly been answered but instead have turned into an argument about why I'm eating the amount of calories that this same website that we are ALL using, indicated is the correct amount for weight loss.
You're giving too much credit to the system. You'll get 1200 calories depending on how much you tell it you want to lose per week. The system does not determine if the rate of loss you chose is optimal.
Many people mistakenly choose an overly aggressive rate of loss, which can lead to this:
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Anyways, this tangent was not part of what I was asking. The last few instances of posting on the message boards, my questions have hardly been answered but instead have turned into an argument about why I'm eating the amount of calories that this same website that we are ALL using, indicated is the correct amount for weight loss.
A popular misconception, but no...no it didn't. MFP is a calculator. It takes your inputs (ht/wt/gender/goal/ect...) and runs it through an equation and spits out a number....that number is to hit the goal you entered + your stats to figure out a calorie goal, and MFP "bottoms" out a 1200 for females.
If you put in an aggressive goal of 2lbs per week, odds are the calculator hit its default basement (of 1200) and that's what you got, unless you're very..very short, close to goal weight and quite sedentary.12 -
Seriously? If course it applies to humans. We are basically mammals too.
First, not basically, we just are mammals.
More importantly, that doesn't mean everything in a rodent study or even anything in one applies to humans.
Off the top of my head, I know research on de novo lipogenesis was dead ended - we thought it common because rodents do it, but humans can better store glycogen and have a brain that burns glucose heavily, so we don't tend to turn carbs into fat but rodents do for storage.
Research on rodents also doesn't even pan out on things like cancer that share common pathways. Research on rats would say a lot of things in high doses cause bladder cancer from artificial sweeteners to vitamin c. Doing the research on more closely related primates establishes it isn't likely the same in humans.
Rodent studies are good ways to generate questions and avenues of investigation. Due to the risks, they're also decent for research that would caution us away from some substances. They don't actually demonstrate how something works in humans.9 -
Wow, so many opinions! I appreciate everyone's helpful and not so helpful advice. If I could *possibly* live longer and reduce diseases like cancer while also losing weight on 1200 calories, I'm all about it. You are welcome to eat however many calories your body chooses. It's ok if we have different opinions! I'm going to the doctor in a few weeks. I will ask him about eating 1200 to lose weight but can almost guarantee that he will be good with it. Unless you are a medical doctor or have other relevant licensure, I am not going to take your word over professionals. My best friend was recently on the HMR diet and on 800 calories per day under the care of a medical doctor. Everyone is different!1
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Wow, so many opinions! I appreciate everyone's helpful and not so helpful advice. If I could *possibly* live longer and reduce diseases like cancer while also losing weight on 1200 calories, I'm all about it. You are welcome to eat however many calories your body chooses. It's ok if we have different opinions! I'm going to the doctor in a few weeks. I will ask him about eating 1200 to lose weight but can almost guarantee that he will be good with it. Unless you are a medical doctor or have other relevant licensure, I am not going to take your word over professionals. My best friend was recently on the HMR diet and on 800 calories per day under the care of a medical doctor. Everyone is different!
Make sure your doctor knows you are planning on actually eating 1200 calories, as doctors know patients tend to have issues with compliance, so will lowball in order to get the calorie target they actually think is appropriate.
Also, since doctors tend to not get much nutritional advice, you'd be better off asking for a referral to a registered dietitian, who will have a lot more training than a GP.10 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Wow, so many opinions! I appreciate everyone's helpful and not so helpful advice. If I could *possibly* live longer and reduce diseases like cancer while also losing weight on 1200 calories, I'm all about it. You are welcome to eat however many calories your body chooses. It's ok if we have different opinions! I'm going to the doctor in a few weeks. I will ask him about eating 1200 to lose weight but can almost guarantee that he will be good with it. Unless you are a medical doctor or have other relevant licensure, I am not going to take your word over professionals. My best friend was recently on the HMR diet and on 800 calories per day under the care of a medical doctor. Everyone is different!
Make sure your doctor knows you are planning on actually eating 1200 calories, as doctors know patients tend to have issues with compliance, so will lowball in order to get the calorie target they actually think is appropriate.
Also, since doctors tend to not get much nutritional advice, you'd be better off asking for a referral to a registered dietitian, who will have a lot more training than a GP.
Good advice. Just to be clear I eat more than 1200 calories per day if I exercise which is 75% of the time.1 -
1200 calories is always wrong
If we are reading the same thread, no one said this.the calories you say are correct is always right and that's just the way it is.
I didn't see anyone recommend any specific calories, but instead people pointing out that although MFP gives 1200 as a default (due to math) for basically all women who put down sedentary and sometimes lightly active and aren't unusually large and ask for 2 lb/week, that it is not necessarily a good choice for many, and also that many don't understand that they are not actually sedentary (as MFP actually uses it -- someone with young kids normally would not be) and that MFP's goal is PRE any exercise. I think this added information is helpful, whether you choose to rethink it or not, or even if you rethink it and decide 1200 is right for you. (I took in this information and changed my goal to 1200+exercise cals, but I thought 1200 net was right for me during the first part of my weight loss).
With respect to the claim that 1200 = healthy because there's some possible longevity benefits from lower cals, its of course much more complicated than that, and the article you cited does not talk about it in a scholarly way at all, I'm surprised you consider it some kind of authoritative source.
There is some evidence that reduced cals or occasional fasting has positive effects in other animals, and some efforts to test that in humans. This is not "the lower the better" or "this means 1200 is right," of course, and has nothing to do with weight loss at all. The reduced cals (and optimal nutrition!) for weight loss is more like a mild deficit (here is one example with a 15% deficit) where the expectation is that eventually you will lose a little weight and the metabolism will adjust such that it's maintenance (which is not exactly what the average person losing wants -- a lower metabolism). A lot of the research about it seems to be about the effects of lower protein too, not merely lower cals. Here's one piece: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180322141008.htm
I'd also suggest that if eating a very low cal level like 1200 for any extended period of time and IF the goal is health, not just weight loss as fast as possible, that logging somewhere where you can really watch micronutrients is a good idea. They can be harder to get in on 1200. (That's why VLCDs tend to be doctor supervised and often involve supplements.)
Of course, it all depends on actual rate of loss. Many doctors will recommend 1200 routinely or tell people who say they aren't losing on 1200 or 1400 to try 1000 (a number that most would not think people should actually be eating) on the assumption that they just are tracking poorly, as many do.
Anyway, I don't think 1200 (net!, at least for those who do any meaningful exercise) is inherently bad, it was fine for me for a reasonable period of time (and I had a couple of debates with others about it back in the day), but I think that looking at reasons why it might not be ideal for all and considerations in setting a cal goal are not bad things to do and that suggesting that is hardly something that should be responded to with hostility.9 -
I felt that I was responded to with hostility. And as mentioned before, I do eat back half my exercise calories.1
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And that blogger link that was shared and what some are basing their opinion on did basically say 1200 is always wrong. And I'm not basing my opinion on that one article, there is a lot of relevant research about lower calorie diets.0
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I'm just getting over the flu. I drank tea and water for several days, no food, I just couldn't keep anything down. So should we consume more calories when we're sick? I suppose it depends on what you are sick with.2
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One thing I learned a long time ago about posting is you must have a thick skin and be prepared to answer questions without being on the defense and so reactive.
People want more info before giving a response. It's up to you to take it or leave it but to just say outright that you won't listen and don't want a response if the individual isn't a doctor or RD is a direct insult to those that really want to help. We all discuss to further more thought on the subject, then you have the privilege to disregard or keep what makes sense to you...without reprimand or insult.5 -
One thing I learned a long time ago about posting is you must have a thick skin and be prepared to answer questions without being on the defense and so reactive.
People want more info before giving a response. It's up to you to take it or leave it but to just say outright that you won't listen and don't want a response if the individual isn't a doctor or RD is a direct insult to those that really want to help. We all discuss to further more thought on the subject, then you have the privilege to disregard or keep what makes sense to you...without reprimand or insult.
Considering that people disregarded my primary question and just wanted to talk about the evils of 1200, that's a direct insult to me wanting actual advice about being sick.1 -
One thing I learned a long time ago about posting is you must have a thick skin and be prepared to answer questions without being on the defense and so reactive.
People want more info before giving a response. It's up to you to take it or leave it but to just say outright that you won't listen and don't want a response if the individual isn't a doctor or RD is a direct insult to those that really want to help. We all discuss to further more thought on the subject, then you have the privilege to disregard or keep what makes sense to you...without reprimand or insult.
Considering that people disregarded my primary question and just wanted to talk about the evils of 1200, that's a direct insult to me wanting actual advice about being sick.
I thought the first answer, which was the post before mine, answered your question, and so I moved on to a different, but related, topic.8 -
And that blogger link that was shared and what some are basing their opinion on did basically say 1200 is always wrong. And I'm not basing my opinion on that one article, there is a lot of relevant research about lower calorie diets.
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/1200-calorie-diet/ certainly does not say that 1200 is always wrong.
...In reality, the actual number of healthy adult women on this planet who truly need to eat as little as 1200 calories a day to lose weight is… low.
No, definitely not zero… but still low.
...The goal of every person trying to lose weight should be to eat the maximum amount of calories possible that still produces an acceptable, healthy, and sustainable rate of weight loss for them.
If this legitimately ends up being 1200 calories for you, cool.
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The OP is not feeling well so I think a certain amount of grace should be extended with how she is interpreting our replies.9
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Wow, so many opinions! I appreciate everyone's helpful and not so helpful advice. If I could *possibly* live longer and reduce diseases like cancer while also losing weight on 1200 calories, I'm all about it. You are welcome to eat however many calories your body chooses. It's ok if we have different opinions! I'm going to the doctor in a few weeks. I will ask him about eating 1200 to lose weight but can almost guarantee that he will be good with it. Unless you are a medical doctor or have other relevant licensure, I am not going to take your word over professionals. My best friend was recently on the HMR diet and on 800 calories per day under the care of a medical doctor. Everyone is different!
I'm not trying to be hostile, just factual.
It isn't an area I've develed into as much in the last few years, but last I read, the reduced calorie life extension research looked like it had a pretty bad hook in it: the extended life span is one filled with decreasing mental capacity and dementia like symptoms in animal models.
You can almost tell what someone's physiology interest is based on how they react to things like the term mTOR - for life extension enthusiasts, mTOR is the bane of existence and stopping its activation is an over-riding goal - it is what kicks off eventual cell deaths from repeated growth. For anyone looking for hypertrophy such as bodybuilders or strength sports? mTOR is the holy grail because it is what kicks off repeated growth, which means bigger, better muscles over time. So there two, there's a tension between span of life and quality of life. Sarcopenia might be a great way to live to be 150, but is it how one wants to spend their years from 60 to 150?5 -
I'm just getting over the flu. I drank tea and water for several days, no food, I just couldn't keep anything down. So should we consume more calories when we're sick? I suppose it depends on what you are sick with.
Note, just because you can't get anything other than water and tea down doesn't mean that you shouldn't a. try or b. be concerned. I ended up in the ER twice during one rather epic UTI turned kidney infection because I couldn't keep down water, let alone food. Needless to say, in addition to the IV fluids (and antibiotics via IV), I was also given an antiemetic while there and a script for them to pick up after I left. Yes part of that was that I needed to be able to drink water, but also becuase I needed to be able to eat at least a minimal amount of food.2 -
I felt that I was responded to with hostility. And as mentioned before, I do eat back half my exercise calories.
Cool. I hadn't seen that post when I posted, but obviously I was not expressing an opinion on how many cals you should or should not eat. Like everyone else, I noted some considerations (and also noted that I concluded that 1200 + exercise was reasonable for me at one time), and did not tell you what you should do. I continue to have no opinion on what you should do, as I don't know your stats, etc.
However, here's the post that you initially responded to (IMO with hostility), and which provoked my post:kshama2001 wrote: »Also, unless you are very very short, reconsider 1200 calories in the first place: https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/1200-calorie-diet/
I do not think your response was fair.
Nor do I think anyone was treating you with hostility or telling you how many cals to eat. They were speaking from experience with MFP and how certain inputs always get 1200 even when it might not be appropriate and suggesting you might want to consider whether it is for you.6
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