Need advice as to why I’m not losing
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@freda78 my apologies if my information is incorrect, this was simply what we were taught in my nutrition class in nursing school (2015) and I haven't worked a great deal with weight loss nutrition since then as we don't often see many patients with limited calorie diets (specifically for weight management) unless they are following ADA, Dash, etc. and those patients typically follow a 1600 or 1800 calorie diet depending on their specific needs. I wasn't trying to give incorrect information providing that new studies may show different results. My intention was only one of attempting to assist this person. Again, my apologies, I did not mean to offend.10
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@freda78 my apologies if my information is incorrect, this was simply what we were taught in my nutrition class in nursing school (2015) and I haven't worked a great deal with weight loss nutrition since then as we don't often see many patients with limited calorie diets (specifically for weight management) unless they are following ADA, Dash, etc. and those patients typically follow a 1600 or 1800 calorie diet depending on their specific needs. I wasn't trying to give incorrect information providing that new studies may show different results. My intention was only one of attempting to assist this person. Again, my apologies, I did not mean to offend.
Please don't be upset. People on here are very into nutrition, dieting and the facts. Starvation mode is a click bait to attract people to an article or diet. If you're interested read up on "The Minnesota Experiment" when volunteers were starved after WWII for science. There's a lot to learn here and I've been following the boards for 7 years. There are very knowlegeable people, it's fun. Good luck to you and hope to see you on the boards in the future.6 -
@snowflake954 I'm not upset, thanks for your concern, just wanted to explain where my information came from; it was just what I was taught to be true at the time. Also, I think my wording in previous post wasn't the greatest (re:starvation mode), I was referencing the slow-down of metabolism, and cellular death from inadequate nutrition, etc. Granted, that information is now 5 years old, and I am confident that new studies change views on older theories. I started out on MFP in 2013 but it was a short lived experience. I have now been using MFP for about 2 weeks roughly and started using the forums about 10 days ago. I am brand-spanking new to exercise at age 30 (can you believe it?!?). I now know that I do have SOME knowledge in certain aspects of nutrition, but fitness is a foreign language to me. I just need to research new nutritional theories as I am researching the best options as far as fitness is concerned. I think I may hold off on chiming in for the time being, as I don't want to provide anyone with incorrect information. I want to be helpful, not harmful to someone's situation.
I will definitely read up on "The Minnesota Experiment", thanks for that!! Best Wishes!9 -
Thank you everyone. For some time before the removal of my lap band, all I was able to eat was ice cream and chips and dip. This went on for over two years because they were the only things that I could get to stay down. Hence the weight gain. I have not touched them since my surgery! Ick! While I had my lap band I craved chicken breast and vegetables. But every time I would try to eat them they would get stuck and I would throw up. This went on for years. Now I have dental problems because of acid erosion on my teeth. So I’m on a whole improve me kick and this where I started. I don’t have a digital scale but I do use measuring cups to measure my food. And the doctor I see is my family doctor but also specializes in weight loss. I did ask about fruit and he said it had too much natural sugar in it and he didn’t want me to eat it. I think this diet he had me on is to eliminate excess sugar it seems. No pasta, bread, tortillas, fruit, sodas. Having the lap band all these years and not being able to have those things anyway, I don’t crave them at all. So, I did my weekly weigh in this morning and it says I’m down 6 pounds for the week. I’m guessing a lot of water weight due to my cycle ending. I don’t really see it or feel it but I will trust the process and keep trucking. Thank you everyone. Raining today, might not walk the dogs today if it doesn’t let up.6
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So down 9 pounds in 3 weeks? Pretty fast weight loss.4
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Is three pounds a week really too much? I know much more probably wouldn’t be good.0
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The generally safe levels are 20% of TDEE, maybe 25% while obese. 0.5% to 1% of body weight per week. Usually the higher the initial weight the larger the loss per week that can be tolerated. Tolerable and tolerated does not mean optimal and best and healthiest rate for the individual.
First or second week losses are often different than the longer term trend. Weight trend over long enough time periods is what matters in the end. Not any subsets of one or two weeks.4 -
The generally safe levels are 20% of TDEE, maybe 25% while obese. 0.5% to 1% of body weight per week. Usually the higher the initial weight the larger the loss per week that can be tolerated. Tolerable and tolerated does not mean optimal and best and healthiest rate for the individual.
First or second week losses are often different than the longer term trend. Weight trend over long enough time periods is what matters in the end. Not any subsets of one or two weeks.
In the interest of "correctness" and even though I don't believe that fast a rate of loss to be a good idea for reasons other than body composition, an obese individual would probably tolerate 1.5% per week just as well from a favourable body composition results perspective as 1% per week.
Again, tolerate well (i.e. that you're not going to lose excess lean mass) does not mean optimal for a particular individual. In the end if 1.5% per week is hard and you end up derailed after a couple of months, you will lose way less than the person who only loses 0.5% a week... but keeps doing so for a year.2 -
The generally safe levels are 20% of TDEE, maybe 25% while obese. 0.5% to 1% of body weight per week. Usually the higher the initial weight the larger the loss per week that can be tolerated. Tolerable and tolerated does not mean optimal and best and healthiest rate for the individual.
First or second week losses are often different than the longer term trend. Weight trend over long enough time periods is what matters in the end. Not any subsets of one or two weeks.
In the interest of "correctness" and even though I don't believe that fast a rate of loss to be a good idea for reasons other than body composition, an obese individual would probably tolerate 1.5% per week just as well from a favourable body composition results perspective as 1% per week.
Again, tolerate well (i.e. that you're not going to lose excess lean mass) does not mean optimal for a particular individual. In the end if 1.5% per week is hard and you end up derailed after a couple of months, you will lose way less than the person who only loses 0.5% a week... but keeps doing so for a year.
...and she says she's eating about half of her 1350 Goal.
In no situation is that okay unless she is on a monitored IV supplemental medical program. Like in-patient.
@Rowdib please tell your medical team about your ultra low calories. It's dangerous.
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cmriverside wrote: »The generally safe levels are 20% of TDEE, maybe 25% while obese. 0.5% to 1% of body weight per week. Usually the higher the initial weight the larger the loss per week that can be tolerated. Tolerable and tolerated does not mean optimal and best and healthiest rate for the individual.
First or second week losses are often different than the longer term trend. Weight trend over long enough time periods is what matters in the end. Not any subsets of one or two weeks.
In the interest of "correctness" and even though I don't believe that fast a rate of loss to be a good idea for reasons other than body composition, an obese individual would probably tolerate 1.5% per week just as well from a favourable body composition results perspective as 1% per week.
Again, tolerate well (i.e. that you're not going to lose excess lean mass) does not mean optimal for a particular individual. In the end if 1.5% per week is hard and you end up derailed after a couple of months, you will lose way less than the person who only loses 0.5% a week... but keeps doing so for a year.
...and she says she's eating about half of her 1350 Goal.
In no situation is that okay unless she is on a monitored IV supplemental medical program. Like in-patient.
@Rowdib please tell your medical team about your ultra low calories. It's dangerous.
Missed that part. I wasn't concerned so much about the 3 lb a week because OP was coming off illness/bed rest and edema is very common in those circumstances, so losing a lot of water weight is typical. Eating dangerously few calories is not a good idea.
OP, I agree. Please speak to your medical team about how few calories you are eating.5 -
The weight loss procedure was done years ago and the removal of likely an adjustable gastric band is a very minor procedure and would not need increased protein to allow for healing from the surgery as some people have stated. I agree that half of 1350 kcal per day would be way too little, but our experience is that most people are very bad about estimating calories without help or very carefully logging things. It is not uncommon in the first week or two to be consume little and this calorie estimate may be right. Agree with the comments above regarding "starvation mode"...what you are referring to are changes in the non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) which is not likely to be a factor here (a long technical side discussion if people are interested).
Some suggestions:
1. Continue to follow a diet. The one you mention sounds reasonable. Multiple studies have shown that following a diet is useful especially in the long term. It does not seem to matter so much which diet you do since trials comparing different diets have usually found weight loss to be similar but better than people who were just counseled regarding weight loss but not given a specific plan.
2. It is important to set realistic goals and think of this as a long term process. I find it really frustrating that I can only lose 1.5 to 2 pounds per week but I have to remind myself that the weight came on slowly and your body will only allow you to remove it safely at limited rate. Trying to push weight loss beyond about 2 pounds per week is just not sustainable in my experience, and we worry about the long-term health effects.
3. Consider cutting out highly processed foods (sodas [including diet], fast food, chips, etc). This was a study out of Stanford University last year where people did that and either followed a low carb or low fat diet, and they achieved good weight loss without counting calories (I think it was on the order of 12 pounds over the study).
4. I personally think it is best to weigh yourself frequently - every day or at least once per week and put the result in one of may programs online that will show you a trend line (or you can do it in Excel). There is considerable daily variation in weight based on fluid retention alone and this is especially true in your case where you have some leg swelling. This can result in several pounds of weight swing up or down and can be very discouraging if you are retaining more fluid than usual or lead to unrealistic expectations of weight loss achieved if you are on the lower end. I find it useful to keep a careful track of calories consumed and activity (easy with a Fitbit or Apple Watch). Taking this along with my basal metabolic rate (estimated through a number online calculators) I graph out in Excel what my weight actually is predicted to be. What I have noticed is and my weight will swing up and down around the true weight. This difference can be several pounds. It is quite common for people to it have a very dramatic weight loss in the first week or 2 and unfortunately this is primarily due to changes in fluid retention (due to a number factors including the decrease in glycogen in muscle which is only temporary). However, real weight loss is occurring so hang in there.
5. Keep a log of what you eat. I find keeping a log of what I eat easy to do with phone apps or online programs, and I think it is helpful. For me it helps me make better food choices.
6. Medically supervised weight loss is not all the same. In this case it sounds like your physician has given you a diet, but he or a dietician is not meeting with you frequently, tracking your progress carefully, and adjusting your diet as can be done. I think this later approach is more effective, but insurance does not pay for this usually and few people can afford it out of pocket.
7. The procedure I suspect you had is years ago was a laparoscopic adjustable band or less likely a vertical banded gastroplasty or other similar procedure. These just reduce the stomach size, and weight loss has been very disappointing from such procedures especially long term. There are multiple reasons for this, but the biggest is that they do not impact the hormones that signal hunger and feeling full. If your obesity is bad enough (class II or III) then a Roux-en-Y gastric bypass (the most common procedure) may be something to think about especially if you have health problems related to obesity. This surgery makes a smaller stomach that is connected to the esophagus (swallowing tube) and intestines. It also rearranges the intestines so you can absorb less of the calories from the food you eat. The gastric pouch can stretch out over time (as it likely did with your gastric band), but with a Roux-en-Y the intestinal bypass is still there (the "malabsorptive component") that will help lose weight.
8. There are a number of medications that can assist in weight loss such as Contrave or topiramate. Talk with your doctor about these if you have not lost weight after a couple more months. They are not miracle drugs, but they will help cut your appetite.
9. Your edema is a bit concerning. I'm assuming that you have been checked for obstructive sleep apnea or are already on treatment with CPAP.1 -
I wonder if "Lean Green Protein" is another way of saying Keto or very low carb diet? I tried keto for a while and lost weight without counting calories because I ate less since I wasn't hungry AT ALL. Food actually started to gross me out and I knew it wasn't something I could stick to for the long term. I really needed fruit and other veggies. I found that when I started eating more "normal" foods again and counting calories, my appetite came back.
You should follow your doctor's advice though but you might want to consider a 2nd opinion.1 -
oceangirl99 wrote: »I wonder if "Lean Green Protein" is another way of saying Keto or very low carb diet? I tried keto for a while and lost weight without counting calories because I ate less since I wasn't hungry AT ALL. Food actually started to gross me out and I knew it wasn't something I could stick to for the long term. I really needed fruit and other veggies. I found that when I started eating more "normal" foods again and counting calories, my appetite came back.
You should follow your doctor's advice though but you might want to consider a 2nd opinion.
Googling suggests that it may be an Optavia thing, and sounds a lot like a healthy version of a keto diet.
I am another who thinks that OP should talk to her medical team about what is going on in that the signs of water retention make the actual rate of loss unclear and if she is eating only half of her 1320 (and doesn't know what she should be aiming for anyway), that's a worrisome sign. And yes, eating keto can kill appetite and make hunger untrustworthy, as can eating in a way that cuts out all favorite foods and which isn't all that appealing (I think the Optavia thing sounds tasty enough but not everyone would).
Also, OP mentioned a medication which could be an appetite suppressant and also is an added reason why the issues with being able to eat and possible water retention need to be brought to the doctor.1 -
My bariatric doctor wanted to convert me to a sleeve or bypass but my insurance refuses to cover it. That’s when he suggested a medical weight loss program. I’m on topiramate and phentermine. I was put on the topiramate months ago for migraines and never saw any weight loss. And I have no sleep apnea, thank God. I’m just fat and really out of shape. I want to get back to riding horses again like I used to. But right now I couldn’t mount if my life depended on it. Part of my having no appetite too is stress. I’m going through a break up with my boyfriend and having to find a new place to live. I’m trying to focus on taking care of me and doing what I need to do for me and not get mired down that a part of my life is ending. And trust me everyone, I’m logging every single calorie that goes in my mouth. I do see my doctor once a month so I will see him again on the 20th. The only thing besides cereal that I’d like to have, is a big ole whopper with cheese! Lol. Commercials on tv are so bad. But they are 860 calories and 51 grams of fat. So that’s a no go. I try to limit my fat to 30 grams per day. Anyway thank you for the great feedback!1
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My bariatric doctor wanted to convert me to a sleeve or bypass but my insurance refuses to cover it. That’s when he suggested a medical weight loss program. I’m on topiramate and phentermine. I was put on the topiramate months ago for migraines and never saw any weight loss. And I have no sleep apnea, thank God. I’m just fat and really out of shape. I want to get back to riding horses again like I used to. But right now I couldn’t mount if my life depended on it. Part of my having no appetite too is stress. I’m going through a break up with my boyfriend and having to find a new place to live. I’m trying to focus on taking care of me and doing what I need to do for me and not get mired down that a part of my life is ending. And trust me everyone, I’m logging every single calorie that goes in my mouth. I do see my doctor once a month so I will see him again on the 20th. The only thing besides cereal that I’d like to have, is a big ole whopper with cheese! Lol. Commercials on tv are so bad. But they are 860 calories and 51 grams of fat. So that’s a no go. I try to limit my fat to 30 grams per day. Anyway thank you for the great feedback!
As you go along you might want to consider that whopper as a treat and cut it in half. Then it might be doable. Put the other half in the frig for a couple of days. Another option is to make your own at home, substituting some ingredients for others and using very lean beef, less bread,...... If you do this for awhile you learn how to enjoy without going overboard. If you're going through a difficult time, just hang in there and maybe use it as a trampoline to start a new life for yourself focusing on your health. Wishing you the best of luck.4 -
Thank you everyone. For some time before the removal of my lap band, all I was able to eat was ice cream and chips and dip. This went on for over two years because they were the only things that I could get to stay down. Hence the weight gain. I have not touched them since my surgery! Ick! While I had my lap band I craved chicken breast and vegetables. But every time I would try to eat them they would get stuck and I would throw up. This went on for years. Now I have dental problems because of acid erosion on my teeth. So I’m on a whole improve me kick and this where I started. I don’t have a digital scale but I do use measuring cups to measure my food. And the doctor I see is my family doctor but also specializes in weight loss. I did ask about fruit and he said it had too much natural sugar in it and he didn’t want me to eat it. I think this diet he had me on is to eliminate excess sugar it seems. No pasta, bread, tortillas, fruit, sodas. Having the lap band all these years and not being able to have those things anyway, I don’t crave them at all. So, I did my weekly weigh in this morning and it says I’m down 6 pounds for the week. I’m guessing a lot of water weight due to my cycle ending. I don’t really see it or feel it but I will trust the process and keep trucking. Thank you everyone. Raining today, might not walk the dogs today if it doesn’t let up.
This concerns me, while you had the lap band your diet consisted of ice cream, dips and chips?
You had to have been overweight to get a lap band in the first place and you gained weight after surgery?
It sounds like your doctor is trying to get you to eat a more nutritious diet, more plant and protein based.
Get a food scale! You will be shocked at what a "serving" looks like. Then weigh a serving of cereal, it's a real eye opener!
You will probably find you are eating more than you think8 -
Thank you everyone. For some time before the removal of my lap band, all I was able to eat was ice cream and chips and dip. This went on for over two years because they were the only things that I could get to stay down. Hence the weight gain. I have not touched them since my surgery! Ick! While I had my lap band I craved chicken breast and vegetables. But every time I would try to eat them they would get stuck and I would throw up. This went on for years. Now I have dental problems because of acid erosion on my teeth. So I’m on a whole improve me kick and this where I started. I don’t have a digital scale but I do use measuring cups to measure my food. And the doctor I see is my family doctor but also specializes in weight loss. I did ask about fruit and he said it had too much natural sugar in it and he didn’t want me to eat it. I think this diet he had me on is to eliminate excess sugar it seems. No pasta, bread, tortillas, fruit, sodas. Having the lap band all these years and not being able to have those things anyway, I don’t crave them at all. So, I did my weekly weigh in this morning and it says I’m down 6 pounds for the week. I’m guessing a lot of water weight due to my cycle ending. I don’t really see it or feel it but I will trust the process and keep trucking. Thank you everyone. Raining today, might not walk the dogs today if it doesn’t let up.
I have been where you have! Had my lapband removed in 2013 I think. I was fine eating candy and ice cream but forget healthy food. Before I had it removed the nurse asked me what I was going to eat first and I said broccoli. She was shocked. I know folks who had good results with theirs but I wasn't one of them. I have since managed to get my eating under control and lost down to a healthy weight. I think right now I'm showing as 96 pounds lost because I am up a little this year but I was originally down over 100. I'm 63 years old and was 59 when I started losing. If I can do it you can. What has been most useful to me is counting absolutely everything I eat, weighing it before eating it and watching my carb intake. I can't do Keto and I would never be able to maintain that diet. Lower carb works well for me though and I have found workarounds to things that were making it harder for me to stay on track. For example zucchini noodles and reducing my starch at dinner and increasing green veggies. I've learned to cook veggies in ways that appeal to me. These changes took about 2 years. I've been maintaining now for about 3 years although as I said I'm about 5 pounds over my goal range right now. I am slowly moving back down. (I quit vaping for a while and gained 15 pounds). Hang in there and don't give up. Even if you lose slowly you will be amazed that in no time you are thinner.8 -
Good job @cheryldumais
Was wondering how the vape campaign was going! Really glad to hear you managed to conquer it!!!0 -
Good job @cheryldumais
Was wondering how the vape campaign was going! Really glad to hear you managed to conquer it!!!
Oh @PAV8888 I'm sorry to say I went back to vaping as I was gaining with no end in sight. I'm retiring this year however and hope to try again once I get settled.4 -
cheryldumais wrote: »Good job @cheryldumais
Was wondering how the vape campaign was going! Really glad to hear you managed to conquer it!!!
Oh @PAV8888 I'm sorry to say I went back to vaping as I was gaining with no end in sight. I'm retiring this year however and hope to try again once I get settled.
Dang. You will get it on your next try once you have more time!!!0
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