Not losing

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  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    The number of steps seems suitable for someone who has not left the house today. Is this the case or are your steps underestimated?

    Yep thanks to Dennis I never left the house
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    The typical advice is to use four to six week intervals and monitor how many calories out and calories in you have logged and how your weight trend has changed over that time frame. The time frame is so as to include a full monthly cycle for women, males may be able to get meaningful results in 3 weeks.

    Each one pound change in weight trend is assumed to be about 3,500 calories of energy imbalance.

    You compare expected results to actual and adjust!

    I'll just give it a few more weeks which I was going to so anyway and see what happens. Can feel that I've lost some off my waist which was the main aim to lose a couple inches.

    Just adjusted to 0.5lb and gives me a target of 1700. With extra exercise I can't see I'm ever going to eat that amount. Clearly I was eating better than I previously thought.
  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
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    Think I need to get eating. Still based on my 1500 goal I've eaten 442 calories and then 182 exercise from 1297 steps. Normally only average about 800 for dinner. Don't feel particularly hungry but from what we are saying I need to eat anyway
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,602 Member
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    At this stage I would look for a better "exercise correction" than what google fit is giving you.

    MFP sedentary level includes an allowance for self care activities. Generally we would assume that the first 3-3500 steps you take will already be included in that allowance!

    On the face of it getting additional calories for a total of less than 3K steps doesn't make much sense and would usually be an indication of an error somewhere (setup stats or times, integration issue, something else)

    That said... think about it: You've eaten 442 Calories today.

    The government of Canada thinks that as a male you will GENERALLY SPEAKING expend approximately:

    Men
    EER = 662 - (9.53 x age [y]) + PA x { (15.91 x weight [kg]) + (539.6 x height [m]) }

    So for me: EER = 662 - (9.53x 54) + (1.48x 1117.9) + (539.6 x 1.7225) = 2731
    By experience I will tell you that for me this is within the ball-park, but probably low by 150-200 Calories.

    Based on your activity factor as you describe it, (Typical daily living activities such as household tasks and walking to the bus) the equation for you would be:
    EER = 662 - (9.53 x age [y]) + 1.0 x { (15.91 x weight [kg]) + (539.6 x height [m]) }

    To change that 1.0 into a 1.11 you would need to move up to: (Typical daily living activities PLUS 30-60 minutes of daily moderate activity (ex walking at 5-7km / h)

    https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/food-nutrition/healthy-eating/dietary-reference-intakes/tables.html#rhw

    A more automated approach might be found at a TDEE calculator site such as: https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/

    In either case, if you're counting your intake accurately, 1300 Calories for the day would be significantly lower than most of the estimates out there, in terms of what a male should eat in order to not be hungry!

    How much protein and fat and fiber and carbs are you getting with your 1300 Cal?

    And, as mentioned, none of this matters, as what matters is the interaction of what you do with your weight trend and you can adjust behaviour solely on the basis of that trend once you have sufficient data.
  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
    edited February 2020
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    ok thanks, so stick to the 1500 (although if we saying I shouldn't be set to 1 or 2lbs loss and I put it back to 0.5lb then it adjusts to 1690) ignoring the steps. I can't see anything in the Google Fit settings to make it wrong but might be trying a Fitbit Flex 2.

    To be honest last night was bad night and ended up with McDonalds so had 42%/50%, 43%/30% Fat, 15%/20% Protein. I ended on 304 exercise for 1971 steps and ate 1831. Looking back at the past week my Carb's average 50%, Fat 30% and Protein around 20%

    I see the sailrabbit website shows my average BMR at 1553, TDEE at 1863 and on 1lb/week loss a calorie deficit of 500 and total of 1553.

    I'll get some more weeks under my belt and see what happens.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,602 Member
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    Just as a point of information, I screwed up the brackets above, and the equation comes in at about +400 Cal in my case which means it over-estimates me as opposed to underestimate by the amount I had stated.

    In terms of deficit, you are correctly getting that you want your deficit to be off your TDEE.

    In general, though, as a male, you don't want your eating calories to be below 1500. If nothing else, you have to account for about 0.8g to 1g of protein per lb of weight within the normal range... so that by itself usually takes care of a good 5 to 600 Cal for most males.

    In any case, regardless of the goal you had selected (2lbs a week), your TDEE is not high enough for you to pursue such a goal without dipping below the minimum of 1500 Cal a day for males. As such your goal became 1500, which in your case with a TDEE around 1900 is expected to result in a loss of a bit less than 1lb a week.

    Which is actually a fine goal, assuming your TDEE really is at that level!

    While I am perfectly willing to believe that your TDEE is higher than 1900, and that's what Google Fit implies with the adjustment, the information you've given about the number of steps you take and the lack of any mention of other exercise activity makes me very hesitant to believe that you're expending calories above the sedentary level!

    Your strategy of doing all this and re-evaluation is A1--by far the best and only way to have real answer!

    Looking forward to seeing you announce your success!!!

    Cheers.
  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
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    ok thanks @PAV8888 so in other words I'm doing everything correctly and I need to hit my 1500 goal calories and any extra that I earn from exercise?
  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
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    If I am doing it correctly, I guess I might be in the window of not eating enough to lose? I don't feel that my eating patterns have changed and therefore I was never eating anywhere near the 1940 it suggests to maintain weight
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,602 Member
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    I am basing my answer on your evaluation of yourself as sedentary. With the corroborating evidence that you usually log less than 3500 steps a day.

    Under these conditions your expected TDEE seems to be in the 1875 to 1950 range (sailrabbit using an activity factor of 1.2; MFP using 1.26

    Any exercise beyond your sedentary level (of about 3500 steps/about an hour of moving around in a day) should be added on top. Anything below is already included.

    An adjustment from Google fit for a few hundred steps does not make any sense when your total steps do not exceed 3-3500.

    Please note that you lose weight any time you are below TDEE. You don't have to be -450 below every day. A maintenance day like you had yesterday is perfectly acceptable.

    You've never detailed how you weigh yourself but with small caloric deficits water weight moves much faster than fat induced weight change.

    You will have a hard time figuring out your trend until you manage to gather sufficient weight samples collected under similar conditions

    A 400 Cal deficit is substantial given how little weight you have to lose and your current TDEE.

    Given that you're already within normal BMI, and given that you appear to be quite sedentary based on what you said, I would like to draw your attention to the WHO minimum exercise recommendations what you can find online

    You might actually derive more health benefits by implementing them even if this involves just a couple of 15-minute walks a day and some basic strength exercises. You may find this more beneficial than deliberately reducing your body weight.

    Give it a thought when you get a chance!

    And your one day of McDonald's doesn't really matter if most of your days meet your goals!
  • angelexperiment
    angelexperiment Posts: 1,917 Member
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    It’s more about diet than exercise. Honestly portions are a big one. Are you weighing food? Doesn’t seem like a big thing I know but it is a more accurate estimate of calories than reading a food label or taking it off the database sometimes those are incorrect. It’s so important when you can’t figure why you aren’t losing it’s usually that my idea of a portion was not the what a actual portion would be. Mine was like 2x the amount ! Lol and reading good label portions before consumption! For example I like love chocolate granola I had a bowl without measuring and it was full 😂 a portion was a 1/3 cup. It ended up being I just ate 1000 calories 😟. Little things can be big things later was my lesson! And personally I never ate back my exercise calories when I could unless it was still very early in day or I was very short on calories or something
  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
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    Oooh we, just gone to complete my diary for tonight and I've had a warning to say I've not eaten enough.

    I've eaten 371 for lunch, 515 for dinner, and 322 in snacks. It's added on 290 for 2348 steps so left me with 582. I think maybe I should turn off the steps
  • deannalfisher
    deannalfisher Posts: 5,600 Member
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    don't turn off steps - but if you are getting a calorie adjustment, you might consider whether current activity level you are set at makes sense (are you really sedentary?)
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,602 Member
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    Based on what he had said about his total number of steps not exceeding 3000, that adjustment has to be spurious unless there is other activity not getting captured

    MFP sedentary includes the first 3-3500 steps for most people.

    I concur on the 1500. I have a hard time figuring out weight gain at under 2k cal for a guy only a tad shorter than me and a lot younger
  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
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    I don't know how but that's what it worked out to be with measuring everything and is normal levels and portions before I started all of this. I wasn't hungry and felt fine but clearly it seems I'm not eating enough. Today I'm not sure whether to turn steps on or not. Job is office based and that was just steps going up and down floors in the office.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,602 Member
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    how are you / google fit measuring steps? i would need to stay at home all day to come in below 3500. a good clip walk can be reasonably assumed to be at 100 steps per min
  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
    edited February 2020
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    how are you / google fit measuring steps? i would need to stay at home all day to come in below 3500. a good clip walk can be reasonably assumed to be at 100 steps per min

    Phone in my pocket and ensuring that I take it with me now all the time. Currently sat at 379 steps which would have been walking around the house a bit this morning and to and fro car from home and to desk. Think it might be a bit 'enthusiastic', just popped downstairs in the office and back, now reporting 110 more.

    I'm just confused how I can eat my 1500 when I feel absolutely fine but guess my body used to it
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    Based on what he had said about his total number of steps not exceeding 3000, that adjustment has to be spurious unless there is other activity not getting captured

    MFP sedentary includes the first 3-3500 steps for most people.

    I concur on the 1500. I have a hard time figuring out weight gain at under 2k cal for a guy only a tad shorter than me and a lot younger

    Oops, I missed that. Thanks.
  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
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    So today I'm on 1087 left with the additional exercise turned off. If there was a day when I decide to go out for a walk and get up lots of steps, at what point do I know when to turn them on?
  • stuarta99
    stuarta99 Posts: 93 Member
    edited February 2020
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    Hit my 1500 today without exercise on. Just been reading up on the negative adjustment and from I'm reading maybe I should be enabling that because my sedentary as has been mentioned here takes into account my first 3000.....or would a Fitbit make any difference?
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,602 Member
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    MFP guesses your caloric expenditure based on what you tell it. "I am sedentary. I am active. I exercised 52 hours straight at 125% speed! I didn't break a sweat even though I moved all the hay from one end of the barn to the other!"

    Fitbit sits there and records accelerometer readings, cadence, heart rate, gps track even, and tries to make a guess as to what type and what intensity of activity you're engaged in and how many calories you are estimated to be burning.

    Essentially, with integration enabled the user not making modifications, MFP defers to Fitbit for your total calories burned for the day.

    Integration, AT MIDNIGHT, ensures that your Fitbit burn is what has been recorded as your caloric expenditure for the day via the adjustment mechanism.

    Therefore you would not need to make any adjustments to that final number.

    The intermediate numbers during the day may require some mental adjustment. If, for example, you exercise early and go to bed at 21:00 your final adjustment at 23:59 will be lower than what you would see at 21:00