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BF Estimate and Suggestion

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  • dpr73dpr73 Member Posts: 492 Member Member Posts: 492 Member
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    dpr73 wrote: »
    dpr73 wrote: »
    dpr73 wrote: »
    OP. Why don’t you get yourself on a structured lifting programme: there’s a thread at the top. If you haven’t been following a programme then this is where you have been going wrong. Pick any beginners programme it really doesn’t matter too much.

    Lift for a few months. Reap the newbie gains.

    In your shoes after a recent large weight loss I wouldn’t cut or bulk, just lift and maintain ur weight. Get used to training properly. I speak as a former fat person who was scared to gain. It has taken me a few years to even contemplate gaining. I would get into good habits with training and then when you are ready to bulk, you can. Or not. It’s your body, after all.

    You have years of training ahead of you and potentially a great physique, but it will take time to build and you have to accept that those quick transformations on insta are not all ‘real’. Real life is much more complicated than a 6 pack magically appearing after 3 months training. For most of us at least.

    I totally agree with what you said.i am not a quick fix type of person. I actually enjoy the long process. What frightens me is that I bulk and put on fat, then I don’t look good/healthy after bulking. I know cuts have to follow even the leanest bulls oftentimes, but I don’t ever want to appear fat/out of shape, this is what has me spinning wheels.

    That’s why I suggested you recomp. Train at the weight you are. Is it optimal? Maybe not, maybe yes. But for where you are mentally it feels to me like the best way. Because if you bulk there will be a period where you look fatter. If that sends you to a cut after only a few weeks in a surplus this is why you aren’t seeing progress. Well that and not following a progressive lifting programme.

    Not everyone is mentally cut out for bulking. That’s ok, we are all different.

    Maybe in the future you will reach a place where you don’t fear looking fatter. I’m just about there. It’s taken a few years at maintenance and lifting for me to feel ready to bulk. I had a long period of being overweight and a period in my teens of anorexia ( 25 years ago, I’m old) I had a lot of *kitten* to sort out mentally around food.

    I personally really want to bulk though. I’m sick of people not thinking I lift (which I do religiously...it’s my favorite hobby). And I would like to be bigger and more muscular and wouldn’t mind a little
    More fat (I currently don’t fill out my
    Clothes very well at all). I just need help knowing what to expect cause in my head I get this view that I’ll be far with a big gut after bulking with 15lbs slowly (like .5-1lb a week).

    Hey man,

    Remember the fact that you've lost weight before! You know what to do, you can do it again, but this time (if you bulk a bit) it'll be easier because you have more experience and you will have built some muscle. In my opinion, we will never be HAPPY to put on fat, particularly if we've lost it before, but if we can come to accept it as a temporary part of the process, a means-to-an-end, it will be easier.

    In this last year, I've gone from 170lbs to 138lbs back up to 159lbs and now I'm burning again. Onwards and upwards bro 🙏

    I’m not scared of cutting after. I’m scared of looking bad in between. I don’t care about a little temporary fat gain a. Means to an end. I just don’t want to look BAD at the end of a bulk either

    I don't quite understand this... nobody is suggesting you bulk until you are 200+ pounds, gut hanging over your belt and wider in the middle than you are in the shoulders.

    Yes, bulking 20 pounds might give you some pooch and add some to the love handles but in clothes you will probably look better and less DYEL as you will fill out your clothes better, your sleeves will be tight on your arms and your shoulders and traps won't be hidden when wearing normal clothing. Maybe relaxed, caved chest, stomach popping in a side view in the mirror naked won't be optimal - but unless you are spending a lot of your time around others half naked it shouldn't matter. For me, I know I look a heck of a lot more powerful and thick at the top of my bulk when I'm clothed... I just purposefully avoid dwelling on my naked side profile in the mirror. ;)

    About the "recomp" thing. I'd not suggest it. You have been basically recomping for years now. Besides the time you spent in a purposeful deficit losing weight you have been yo-yo'ing between a minor surplus and deficit for years - maintaining about the same weight the entire time. This is in essence, a recomp. However, you are nowhere near your target weight and don't really have much to work with in terms of stored energy and body fat which has resulted in the glacially slow to non-existent gains you are experiencing. Look at the last few pages of the "recomp" thread and you'll see that most of those people just actually cut. They lost weight and look a bit more defined because of that. Very few of them actually maintained and the ones that actually did and aren't using angles and lighting don't look any different. Recomp does work but if you have any advanced physique goals it's so slow that you will be my age before you actually see (if you even do) any real changes... imo of course. Obviously, I'm not a huge proponent of recomp for bodybuilding/physique.

    This is amazingly helpful for me to stay dedicated to gaining! Thank you!!
  • giancarlov1191giancarlov1191 Member, Premium Posts: 327 Member Member, Premium Posts: 327 Member
    dpr73 wrote: »
    Excellent advice above. I believe OP understands the mechanics, I think he needs the motivation and support from us!

    This is exactly what I need! Thank you. I just need to know the reality of what to expect which I’m sure is no where near as bad as I think it is...

    Take it week by week. You can adjust as you go man, it won't be all that bad.
  • dpr73dpr73 Member Posts: 492 Member Member Posts: 492 Member
    Also @jseams1234 what is a DYEL hahaha
  • jseams1234jseams1234 Member Posts: 1,173 Member Member Posts: 1,173 Member
    dpr73 wrote: »
    Also @jseams1234 what is a DYEL hahaha

    Do You Even Lift... just a snarky perjorative used on bodybuilding forums. ;)

    It’s how most of us feel we look at the bottom of a cut in street clothes. You can have a pretty aesthetic physique naked but still look like you don’t lift in clothes - it’s a problem we’ve all experienced. Only solution is “moar mass” which becomes a never ending obsession. lol

  • dpr73dpr73 Member Posts: 492 Member Member Posts: 492 Member
    Can someone examine my weight trend and tell me whether I need to increase calories further? I’m conflicted about whether I am gaining or if I am stalled.
  • fitnessguy266fitnessguy266 Member Posts: 128 Member Member Posts: 128 Member
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    dpr73 wrote: »
    Also @jseams1234 what is a DYEL hahaha

    Do You Even Lift... just a snarky perjorative used on bodybuilding forums. ;)

    It’s how most of us feel we look at the bottom of a cut in street clothes. You can have a pretty aesthetic physique naked but still look like you don’t lift in clothes - it’s a problem we’ve all experienced. Only solution is “moar mass” which becomes a never ending obsession. lol


    This....this is reality :D It's just the way this game is!

  • giancarlov1191giancarlov1191 Member, Premium Posts: 327 Member Member, Premium Posts: 327 Member
    dpr73 wrote: »
    Can someone examine my weight trend and tell me whether I need to increase calories further? I’m conflicted about whether I am gaining or if I am stalled.

    So you're going to fluctuate up and down every day, that's normal. What I do is weigh daily and average it out once a week (each sunday) and compare it to last weeks average.
  • jseams1234jseams1234 Member Posts: 1,173 Member Member Posts: 1,173 Member
    dpr73 wrote: »
    Can someone examine my weight trend and tell me whether I need to increase calories further? I’m conflicted about whether I am gaining or if I am stalled.

    What I do is weight myself every week - same time, same day. If I see no gain for more than a couple of weeks I'll adjust a couple of hundred calories up. If I see a loss of more than a pound week to week I'll also adjust up. The problem with a "lean" bulk is that generally people try to keep their surplus very minimal - like around 200 calories or less a day... and that's tricky. The margin for error when it comes to food entries and even the variance between absorption rates between individuals can make that minor of a surplus hard to nail down. It's another reason that lean bulks are so slow in my opinion. Half the time we think we are in a surplus we are probobly really at maintenance or even in a deficit. There is no easy answer - you just stick with it and hope that long term the trend continues upward or you bang in more calories and deal with the extra fat gain.

    Unlike cutting - bulking efficiently requires a constant positive balance to stay in an anabolic state. Cutting gives you more wiggle room. You can be over one day but as long as you are in a deficit over time the weight comes off. Bulking requires more of a steady-state requirement as shifting into a deficit while you are trying to maximize protein synthesis isn't usually going to have a positive outcome.
  • dpr73dpr73 Member Posts: 492 Member Member Posts: 492 Member
    Hey guys,
    One more final question. I hear the term NOOB gains thrown around in reference to new lifters in a bulk. I have been lifting 7 years and in the first year I spent my initial stages of lifting losing over 70lbs to get to my current weight.
    Two summers following, I did try a bulk and gained over 10lbs to 148 over three months but promptly lost it somewhat unintentionally. I didn’t make massive strength gains or anything and have a mild sense I put in a good bit of water rather than real weight...
    Does that count as a bulk and did I waste NOOB gains by that lousy bulk attempt followed by subsequent unintentional cut?
  • giancarlov1191giancarlov1191 Member, Premium Posts: 327 Member Member, Premium Posts: 327 Member
    If you haven't done a proper, long-term muscle building program with proper diet geared towards gaining, you may still have some some room for that but I wouldn't hold too much stock in it, it really varies per person and situation.
  • dpr73dpr73 Member Posts: 492 Member Member Posts: 492 Member
    If you haven't done a proper, long-term muscle building program with proper diet geared towards gaining, you may still have some some room for that but I wouldn't hold too much stock in it, it really varies per person and situation.

    Ok. I mean I did attempt to eat in a surplus but I just am unsure how much I really GAINED from the bulk. I probably did gain something I suppose. I guess it does really hardly matter, as I am still setting goals for this bulk and will follow through on it.
  • giancarlov1191giancarlov1191 Member, Premium Posts: 327 Member Member, Premium Posts: 327 Member
    Sounds good man. Stay committed and work hard and you will definitely see gains. Take regular pictures for yourself too, it's the best way to see progress over time.
  • jseams1234jseams1234 Member Posts: 1,173 Member Member Posts: 1,173 Member
    dpr73 wrote: »
    Hey guys,
    One more final question. I hear the term NOOB gains thrown around in reference to new lifters in a bulk. I have been lifting 7 years and in the first year I spent my initial stages of lifting losing over 70lbs to get to my current weight.
    Two summers following, I did try a bulk and gained over 10lbs to 148 over three months but promptly lost it somewhat unintentionally. I didn’t make massive strength gains or anything and have a mild sense I put in a good bit of water rather than real weight...
    Does that count as a bulk and did I waste NOOB gains by that lousy bulk attempt followed by subsequent unintentional cut?

    I've always looked at it as how far are you away from your genetic limits (as a natural, or course). I've seen guys who either didn't train properly or eat properly get things together and make some pretty dramatic gains in mass very quickly even though they had enough time in the gym that you would think they would have exhausted traditional "noob gains".

    "If you’ve been following a poorly designed diet or training plan, you can make newbie-like gains even if you’ve been training for years."

    https://legionathletics.com/newbie-gains/
  • cupcakesandproteinshakescupcakesandproteinshakes Member Posts: 691 Member Member Posts: 691 Member
    dpr73 wrote: »
    Hey guys,
    One more final question. I hear the term NOOB gains thrown around in reference to new lifters in a bulk. I have been lifting 7 years and in the first year I spent my initial stages of lifting losing over 70lbs to get to my current weight.
    Two summers following, I did try a bulk and gained over 10lbs to 148 over three months but promptly lost it somewhat unintentionally. I didn’t make massive strength gains or anything and have a mild sense I put in a good bit of water rather than real weight...
    Does that count as a bulk and did I waste NOOB gains by that lousy bulk attempt followed by subsequent unintentional cut?

    I haven’t reread all the thread but my impression is that you have not been running a consistent effective hypertrophy programme (focusing on progressive overload) for a decent period of time. If I have remembered correctly then yes. You do still have noobie gains left. The term is an art not an exact science but I’ve heard people say up to a year of consistent lifting is the noobie period.

    Apologies if u am confusing you with another poster.
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