Question on Nutrients

lemurcat2 · March 2020

So it does seem like you've changed your diet very dramatically over a short period of time, so this is pretty new for you. Many of us already cooked and ate veg and fruit and so on before deciding to lose weight, so I think were much less focused on things like processed vs. not and probably started with a better sense of how to create a healthful diet.

I will echo what BarbaraHelen said that the nutritional information in the MFP entries is not always complete, however, if I were trying to eat a healthful keto diet that was as nutritionally complete as possible (which I did do briefly), I'd focus on building meals around a source of protein, healthy sources of fat, and as many veg as possible.

For example, something like a vegetable omelet (using veg you like, greens like spinach and swiss chard cook really well into an omelet, and then something like mushrooms, broccoli (or if that's an absolute no go, something like asparagus or zucchini) plus a little cheese if you like it, and then maybe some avocado on the side. Also, one tip -- you don't need to wait to find premade guac, it's super easy to make.

Re nuts and seeds, you can just eat them on their own or sprinkle them on a salad or some other meal. Pine nuts are great on pasta, for example, and would likely be just as good on some topping for spaghetti squash. I know chia, flax, and hemp seeds get all the press, but you can also just eat some pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, almonds, cashews, and don't forget about nut butters (including peanut butter). Also think about foods like tahini sauce which will add some healthy fats and fit in well with a keto diet, I'd imagine. (Baba ganoush also.)

I think of meals as made up of protein, a starch, and vegetables for the most part. With keto (if you stick to it), the starch would often be replaced by just larger portions of the other two.

I think fruit is a great thing to add to a diet, but with keto as the goal you won't be able to fit in much more than small servings of higher fiber berries (like raspberries) or, of course, the avocado.

If you haven't tried a vegetable cooked in a variety of ways maybe try new ones or new ways of cooking them. There are lots of great websites available (101cookbooks is one I like, you can search by ingredient).

I agree with the prior poster than thinking in terms of incorporating them into dishes is a way to go, like in a soup or chili or pasta sauce (even if you don't eat it on pasta) or a stirfry (on cauliflower rice, perhaps, or just without the rice part).

IMO too often people approach creating a healthy diet as more about NOT eating certain foods, whereas I think a healthier approach is to focus on the foods you do want to eat (and need for a healthful diet, like vegetables, sufficient protein, healthy fats, fiber). If you do that and have a calorie deficit, you aren't going to have room for excessive amounts of low nutrition foods anyway (processed or not, since I see nothing wrong with processed food options which can certainly have good amounts of nutrients depending on what you choose).

That's what I was reacting to before,

foolforcarbos · March 2020

Thanks lemurcat2. I do incorporate green and red bellpeppers and green beans, and yes, fruit. Not only blueberries, raspberries, but apples. I read about your body processing apples differently if you are eating low glycemic foods vs if you eat apples with high glycemic foods. So, as you know, following Keto - one tends to stay on low glycemic foods for the insulin production, and a way to keep that down. Turns out the apple consumption during that time is also processed by the body differently.

So, I am trying to also find if there are studies on any other fruits or veggies that are processed differently when eating low glycemic foods. Eventually, I will be down at the weight I want, and then can decide how to maintain and add things to my diet. It's just for now, this is working and I am sticking to it.

Right now avocados are not available in my area, fresh, and so I am going to have to wait on that. In fact, today at the the grocery store, the fruits and veggies looked like a hurricane went through. There wasn't much left and what was there was well handled and bruised.

The image I am posting is from that 1915 prescription diet for a diabetic. But it's kind of nice info for me, as I am learning to expand my menu. I plan on listing the items by carbs and sugar and fiber as some point, but its a start.

I'll look into that 101cookbooks and a few others. I have already decided, even though its not keto, carrots are sounding good about now. I've gone from 177 lbs to today, 156 lbs. So if I keep logging my food, and my weight goes up, then I can at least look at what I ate and maybe see why. But I think the way I am working the consumption and the kayaking and my regular work - cabinet maker, that I am burning enough calories a day.

I did buy some veggie hashbrowns. Cauliflower. My first attempt. Sure, has a bit of soybean oil, but hey. What's a little keto taboo when you have nutrition to worry about.

Before we suggest to eat it in another form, let me see if I like cauliflower at least as a hash. That or drown in with melted cheese.

I also need a lot more info on seeds. But this will be easier when I up my calories from 1,400 to around 2,000 when I go from losing to maintaining. I actually haven't hit 1,400 and most of the time my net calories are around 350-400. I just want to play with foods now, when you can isolate their effects before the maintenance where you may not be able to determine what set off the scale, and where those pounds can from. I hope, in the end, to be really just a balanced diet - mainly whole foods. Lots of cooking small meals. No overly processed stuff. But day by day.

Thanks.

This link has a link to research about low glycemic foods and apples, from a source I research a lot.

https://www.mensjournal.com/food-drink/can-fruit-make-you-fat/

This article had some links, as well, to things that I may agree with, as far as sources.

https://fivesec.co/blog/does-fruit-sugar-make-you-fat

There are other things I am reading as well, but baby steps.

psychod787 · March 2020

foolforcarbos wrote: »

Thanks lemurcat2. I do incorporate green and red bellpeppers and green beans, and yes, fruit. Not only blueberries, raspberries, but apples. I read about your body processing apples differently if you are eating low glycemic foods vs if you eat apples with high glycemic foods. So, as you know, following Keto - one tends to stay on low glycemic foods for the insulin production, and a way to keep that down. Turns out the apple consumption during that time is also processed by the body differently.

So, I am trying to also find if there are studies on any other fruits or veggies that are processed differently when eating low glycemic foods. Eventually, I will be down at the weight I want, and then can decide how to maintain and add things to my diet. It's just for now, this is working and I am sticking to it.

Right now avocados are not available in my area, fresh, and so I am going to have to wait on that. In fact, today at the the grocery store, the fruits and veggies looked like a hurricane went through. There wasn't much left and what was there was well handled and bruised.

The image I am posting is from that 1915 prescription diet for a diabetic. But it's kind of nice info for me, as I am learning to expand my menu. I plan on listing the items by carbs and sugar and fiber as some point, but its a start.

I'll look into that 101cookbooks and a few others. I have already decided, even though its not keto, carrots are sounding good about now. I've gone from 177 lbs to today, 156 lbs. So if I keep logging my food, and my weight goes up, then I can at least look at what I ate and maybe see why. But I think the way I am working the consumption and the kayaking and my regular work - cabinet maker, that I am burning enough calories a day.

I did buy some veggie hashbrowns. Cauliflower. My first attempt. Sure, has a bit of soybean oil, but hey. What's a little keto taboo when you have nutrition to worry about. Before we suggest to eat it in another form, let me see if I like cauliflower at least as a hash. That or drown in with melted cheese.

I also need a lot more info on seeds. But this will be easier when I up my calories from 1,400 to around 2,000 when I go from losing to maintaining. I actually haven't hit 1,400 and most of the time my net calories are around 350-400. I just want to play with foods now, when you can isolate their effects before the maintenance where you may not be able to determine what set off the scale, and where those pounds can from. I hope, in the end, to be really just a balanced diet - mainly whole foods. Lots of cooking small meals. No overly processed stuff. But day by day.

Thanks.

This link has a link to research about low glycemic foods and apples, from a source I research a lot.

https://www.mensjournal.com/food-drink/can-fruit-make-you-fat/

This article had some links, as well, to things that I may agree with, as far as sources.

https://fivesec.co/blog/does-fruit-sugar-make-you-fat

There are other things I am reading as well, but baby steps.

I can also show you a meta analysis showing large fruit intakes, greater than 7 servings a day do not make a person fat. Do not trust sensational headlines.....

lemurcat2 · March 2020

psychod787 wrote: »

foolforcarbos wrote: »

Thanks lemurcat2. I do incorporate green and red bellpeppers and green beans, and yes, fruit. Not only blueberries, raspberries, but apples. I read about your body processing apples differently if you are eating low glycemic foods vs if you eat apples with high glycemic foods. So, as you know, following Keto - one tends to stay on low glycemic foods for the insulin production, and a way to keep that down. Turns out the apple consumption during that time is also processed by the body differently.

So, I am trying to also find if there are studies on any other fruits or veggies that are processed differently when eating low glycemic foods. Eventually, I will be down at the weight I want, and then can decide how to maintain and add things to my diet. It's just for now, this is working and I am sticking to it.

Right now avocados are not available in my area, fresh, and so I am going to have to wait on that. In fact, today at the the grocery store, the fruits and veggies looked like a hurricane went through. There wasn't much left and what was there was well handled and bruised.

The image I am posting is from that 1915 prescription diet for a diabetic. But it's kind of nice info for me, as I am learning to expand my menu. I plan on listing the items by carbs and sugar and fiber as some point, but its a start.

I'll look into that 101cookbooks and a few others. I have already decided, even though its not keto, carrots are sounding good about now. I've gone from 177 lbs to today, 156 lbs. So if I keep logging my food, and my weight goes up, then I can at least look at what I ate and maybe see why. But I think the way I am working the consumption and the kayaking and my regular work - cabinet maker, that I am burning enough calories a day.

I did buy some veggie hashbrowns. Cauliflower. My first attempt. Sure, has a bit of soybean oil, but hey. What's a little keto taboo when you have nutrition to worry about. Before we suggest to eat it in another form, let me see if I like cauliflower at least as a hash. That or drown in with melted cheese.

I also need a lot more info on seeds. But this will be easier when I up my calories from 1,400 to around 2,000 when I go from losing to maintaining. I actually haven't hit 1,400 and most of the time my net calories are around 350-400. I just want to play with foods now, when you can isolate their effects before the maintenance where you may not be able to determine what set off the scale, and where those pounds can from. I hope, in the end, to be really just a balanced diet - mainly whole foods. Lots of cooking small meals. No overly processed stuff. But day by day.

Thanks.

This link has a link to research about low glycemic foods and apples, from a source I research a lot.

https://www.mensjournal.com/food-drink/can-fruit-make-you-fat/

This article had some links, as well, to things that I may agree with, as far as sources.

https://fivesec.co/blog/does-fruit-sugar-make-you-fat

There are other things I am reading as well, but baby steps.

I can also show you a meta analysis showing large fruit intakes, greater than 7 servings a day do not make a person fat. Do not trust sensational headlines.....

Yes, this.

I am a little worried that you are overcomplicating it, OP, and getting hung up on less important things.

Here's a pretty good article that stresses much more basic principles and ending the diet wars: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/science-compared-every-diet-and-the-winner-is-real-food/284595/

foolforcarbos · March 2020

Thanks guys. Yes, I understand there are a lot of sources stating one can eat over 7 servings of fruits/veggies a day, and that is even pushed by a lot of the keto youtubers.

I read about people trying to live off of apples, in some circumstances. One, a model, didn't fare well after trying to eat and live off of just three apples a day, and ended up malnourished, in short order, while the homeless lady, also living off apples, passed away. It's not that too many apples were bad, but that you can't live off of a couple of apples a day. So my thought was - obviously, one could either eat apples every day and not count them, really, or add a lot more fruits and veggies. If people eating only a couple, say 1-3, apples a day can starve to death, in the end, eating apples anytime you want can't be a bad thing.

And if not apples, then other fruits. Grapes, melons, oranges, most fruits have a lot of water, fiber, and fructose. And are whole foods. I have stated I would rather in my calories equivalent in spinach than drink a Coke. I think it would be easier to drop any weight gained by eating lettuce than over drinking too much Coke. That's why I do not believe a calorie is a calorie. But if everyone else wants to believe k=K that's fine. I think the fiber in the food changes how it gets processed and stored in the body. And that yes, fruits are included.

I agree, after lots of reading medical journals, with Men's Journal:

Traditionally, poor-quality carbs urge your body to release a surplus of insulin so your blood sugar surges, then drops really low so the next response is a starvation measure: Your body dumps fat into your blood stream. But if you eat, say, white bread, with low-glycemic fruits like blueberries or strawberries, that spike will be subdued. Yes, you’re adding more sugar into the mix. But the phytonutrients in those fruits are able to slow down the transportation of sugar through your intestines and thus your bloodstream, blocking some of the absorption. So, if you’re going to have a muffin, bread, pancakes, or French toast, make sure they’re loaded with berries.

psychod787 · March 2020

foolforcarbos wrote: »

Thanks guys. Yes, I understand there are a lot of sources stating one can eat over 7 servings of fruits/veggies a day, and that is even pushed by a lot of the keto youtubers.

I read about people trying to live off of apples, in some circumstances. One, a model, didn't fare well after trying to eat and live off of just three apples a day, and ended up malnourished, in short order, while the homeless lady, also living off apples, passed away. It's not that too many apples were bad, but that you can't live off of a couple of apples a day. So my thought was - obviously, one could either eat apples every day and not count them, really, or add a lot more fruits and veggies. If people eating only a couple, say 1-3, apples a day can starve to death, in the end, eating apples anytime you want can't be a bad thing.

And if not apples, then other fruits. Grapes, melons, oranges, most fruits have a lot of water, fiber, and fructose. And are whole foods. I have stated I would rather in my calories equivalent in spinach than drink a Coke. I think it would be easier to drop any weight gained by eating lettuce than over drinking too much Coke. That's why I do not believe a calorie is a calorie. But if everyone else wants to believe k=K that's fine. I think the fiber in the food changes how it gets processed and stored in the body. And that yes, fruits are included.

I agree, after lots of reading medical journals, with Men's Journal:

Traditionally, poor-quality carbs urge your body to release a surplus of insulin so your blood sugar surges, then drops really low so the next response is a starvation measure: Your body dumps fat into your blood stream. But if you eat, say, white bread, with low-glycemic fruits like blueberries or strawberries, that spike will be subdued. Yes, you’re adding more sugar into the mix. But the phytonutrients in those fruits are able to slow down the transportation of sugar through your intestines and thus your bloodstream, blocking some of the absorption. So, if you’re going to have a muffin, bread, pancakes, or French toast, make sure they’re loaded with berries.

Ok, my last post. Yes, for fat loss, a calorie is a calorie for all practical reasons. Some slight variations in TEF, but in the LARGE scheme, they count for little. Now, for satiety, a calorie is NOT a calorie. Some foods elicit a higher sense of fullness per calorie unit. That is why one can use these satiety power to lower calorie intake and stay full. This helps counteract the hyper-compensation that can occur in people while and after losing weight. That's why eating 2.75 medium apples can be better than drinking a coke. The apples will fill you up and terminate a meal early. Lets use an example of calorie density. If I gave you two identical salads. Same volume and calories. Then put Full fat dressing on one and fat free on the other. The research shows that MOST people will eat the same amount of salad, but different calories because the full fat dressing added calories, thus increasing the calorie density. Yes, low GI foods eaten in isolation will help blunt the "spike" in blood sugar, it really goes out the window inside a mixed media meal. The protein, fat, fiber, from the meal will blunt the glucose release. The research shows that the reason you feel hungry after eating a muffin for instance, is not the glucose "crash" or the "insulin" spike, its the large amount of calories from a muffin in a small package vs a larger amount of food for the same calories from say 2 eggs with veggies, oats with yogurt and berries.

lemurcat2 · March 2020

psychod787 wrote: »

foolforcarbos wrote: »

Thanks guys. Yes, I understand there are a lot of sources stating one can eat over 7 servings of fruits/veggies a day, and that is even pushed by a lot of the keto youtubers.

I read about people trying to live off of apples, in some circumstances. One, a model, didn't fare well after trying to eat and live off of just three apples a day, and ended up malnourished, in short order, while the homeless lady, also living off apples, passed away. It's not that too many apples were bad, but that you can't live off of a couple of apples a day. So my thought was - obviously, one could either eat apples every day and not count them, really, or add a lot more fruits and veggies. If people eating only a couple, say 1-3, apples a day can starve to death, in the end, eating apples anytime you want can't be a bad thing.

And if not apples, then other fruits. Grapes, melons, oranges, most fruits have a lot of water, fiber, and fructose. And are whole foods. I have stated I would rather in my calories equivalent in spinach than drink a Coke. I think it would be easier to drop any weight gained by eating lettuce than over drinking too much Coke. That's why I do not believe a calorie is a calorie. But if everyone else wants to believe k=K that's fine. I think the fiber in the food changes how it gets processed and stored in the body. And that yes, fruits are included.

I agree, after lots of reading medical journals, with Men's Journal:

Traditionally, poor-quality carbs urge your body to release a surplus of insulin so your blood sugar surges, then drops really low so the next response is a starvation measure: Your body dumps fat into your blood stream. But if you eat, say, white bread, with low-glycemic fruits like blueberries or strawberries, that spike will be subdued. Yes, you’re adding more sugar into the mix. But the phytonutrients in those fruits are able to slow down the transportation of sugar through your intestines and thus your bloodstream, blocking some of the absorption. So, if you’re going to have a muffin, bread, pancakes, or French toast, make sure they’re loaded with berries.

Ok, my last post. Yes, for fat loss, a calorie is a calorie for all practical reasons. Some slight variations in TEF, but in the LARGE scheme, they count for little. Now, for satiety, a calorie is NOT a calorie. Some foods elicit a higher sense of fullness per calorie unit. That is why one can use these satiety power to lower calorie intake and stay full. This helps counteract the hyper-compensation that can occur in people while and after losing weight. That's why eating 2.75 medium apples can be better than drinking a coke. The apples will fill you up and terminate a meal early. Lets use an example of calorie density. If I gave you two identical salads. Same volume and calories. Then put Full fat dressing on one and fat free on the other. The research shows that MOST people will eat the same amount of salad, but different calories because the full fat dressing added calories, thus increasing the calorie density. Yes, low GI foods eaten in isolation will help blunt the "spike" in blood sugar, it really goes out the window inside a mixed media meal. The protein, fat, fiber, from the meal will blunt the glucose release. The research shows that the reason you feel hungry after eating a muffin for instance, is not the glucose "crash" or the "insulin" spike, its the large amount of calories from a muffin in a small package vs a larger amount of food for the same calories from say 2 eggs with veggies, oats with yogurt and berries.

Right, exactly, a calorie is a calorie for weight loss, but for satiety and nutrition food choice matters.

Fruit is not bad for weight loss, and is probably good for most people, within the context of a healthy diet, even a lot of fruit, and similarly vegetables certainly are not bad for weight loss and are likely good in terms of a more sating diet on fewer cals. But of course a fruit only diet, and even a veg (meaning non starchy veg) and fruit only diet would not be nutritionally adequate as one will need more protein and healthy fats.

However, that it's not healthy to eat only apples isn't really significant as no one recommends eating only apples (there are a small number of raw diet folks who used to recommend mostly fruit, but I think even most of them have changed, but at any rate they are just random extreme diet advocates on the YouTubes, which is why I don't advise getting diet advice from people on YouTube unless they have been carefully vetted and are in line with other advise elsewhere).

When people point out that a calorie is a calorie for weight loss, they are not recommending that one not consider food choice for satiety and nutrition.

I do think nutrition is pretty simple and it's best not to overcomplicate it, and to also focus on understanding why you specifically tend to overeat, if you do -- that's obviously general advice, not aimed at you psychod787, since I know you've been very successful for a while.

Priasmama416 · March 2020

Use centrum complete multivitamins and protein shakes

foolforcarbos · March 2020

Again, thanks for the replies.

phychod787 - I guess when one is eating only 1,400 calories a day, and only 450 calories a meal, it's easy to isolate foods and not be the mixed media meal. A salad, meat, and something with fat added, doesn't leave a lot of room for all the extras that meals may have included, not that long ago. Not if you want to add a veggie and leave room for a snack later. No room when counting calories. So yes, in a small way, part of what I am doing is trying to match certain foods with certain foods to keep a low glycemic food matched with a higher carb but more fibrous food. As an example. It's how I am learning what kind of menu to create, and learn about food - in general.

I have pretty well established I can lose weight, with my program, and not count apples I eat, for example. Now, they are small green grannysmith, but I can snack on them without worry, it appears. Which is great. I can't see eating an apple a day and not putting that down on my caloric intake (but for now I still do) slowing down the weight loss. I just want to expand from apples. LOL

Lemurcat2 - truthfully, most youtubers advocate eating lots of fruits and veggies. Not just apples. I am the one hung up on apples for now. The youtubers want people to eat 7-10 cups of fruits and veggies at every sitting. They want you to eat a variety. It's me who is learning what I want to add to my menu/diet and what I don't care to, as I don't like things. I know I am picky. Grew up that way. Now I am paying the price for being so selective and not just meat and potatoes.

And I guess I am looking at what can I eat that makes me feel full and avoid things that make me feel I just ate empty calories and am still hungry. I am notating what I can snack on that makes me feel full. I don't want to go back to grazing through food like I once did. I want my food to be practical. At least, that's one of my goals.

Have a great week guys. Go kayaking. Raining out, but that's where I am heading. Get some time on the water. Cooler and wet out or not.

mmapags · March 2020

foolforcarbos wrote: »

Again, thanks for the replies.

phychod787 - I guess when one is eating only 1,400 calories a day, and only 450 calories a meal, it's easy to isolate foods and not be the mixed media meal.

Why are you eating only 1400 calories as an adult male? The nutritional minimum for an adult male is 1500 calories net with consuming exercise calories. Did you come across that little factoid in any of your Men's Health articles and YouTube videos.

foolforcarbos · March 2020

mmapags - no, no-one on any video stated anything about this. I went to several sites and look at my height, weight, age and those sites, along with MFP, said 1,450 calories. I decided, just like when I was in Alaska, to just try to hit that per day, and go ahead and log the exercising per day, and then just look at the net calories and see what's up.

For all of February, I didn't log any exercising. Didn't know to do that. Started March 03 logging exercise.

So here is my latest, as of today and closing down the logs. The 1,100+ calorie net days are just when I walk. The other days, usually under 400 net calories, are when I kayak and hike. Yesterday, was a rain day. So I didn't do anything really. And made up for that today. The 630 net calorie day was a quick kayak in the evening, not that far and not to my island where I hike.

In Alaska, I could take 78 days of food at a time. And eat everything that day. Then in time, I would notice I could skip a meal and if I got laid over in some storm, could eat that extra meal that day. I was kayaking ten hour days, plus 4 hours hiking and photography, and 2 hours to set camp or take down camp, and be constantly moving.

I haven't been hungry really, and yesterday was my first day to go over 1,400 calories. Usually, I am looking for what can I add to my food today to hit 1,400 calories. I am 5 ft 5.5 inches. Small frame. And now 155-156 lbs. There are charts that say I should be at 114-144 lbs for my size. I am not going back to 125 lbs. I was that throughout high school. But I wouldn't mind somewhere between 138-142. I would love that. Sure would beat the 177 I was at last year, or 25 days ago.

foolforcarbos · March 2020

Also, remember, I started at higher calories when I weighed more, and have been lowering them, three times thus far, and do not plan on going under 1,450. I started at 1875, then went down after 8 lbs, and then went down, and so on.

I have probably been on 1,450 for 8-10 days.

mmapags · March 2020

foolforcarbos wrote: »

Also, remember, I started at higher calories when I weighed more, and have been lowering them, three times thus far, and do not plan on going under 1,450. I started at 1875, then went down after 8 lbs, and then went down, and so on.

Doesn't matter. The nutritional floor is there for a reason. Eating below it will result in malnutrition over time. Soft nails, fatigue, hair falling out. Good luck with that.

foolforcarbos · March 2020

I don't plan on doing this forever. Just for now. Then when I hit my weight, can start a maintenance program. I did this for 5 years in Alaska. For 6-7 months at a time. Then came home and starting eating and would gain some weight. But at the end of each season, I was usually 118-120 lbs. Had room to gain weight.

Never experienced any of those side effects. No fatigue. No hair loss. No soft nails. No cavities. No muscle loss. No shallow breathing. No loss of stamina. Felt fine. Sure, missed carbs and sugars out there. I quit the last year when I was suppose to, and didn't go a day longer, because I was craving a cheeseburger and packed up and packed out, to town. Boy, was that a great burger.

Prior, I usually stayed out a few weeks more. But that last year, nope.

AnnPT77 · March 2020

I am 5'5", not large framed, and weigh mid-130s, and am not devoid of muscle. I'm quite active, but a rower rather than a kayaker (mostly). I started at 183, joined MFP at around 155, and lost to where I am now back in 2015, and have stayed there since. I think you are undereating, at risk to your health.

I accidentally underate soon after joining MFP (netting much higher than you are now, at the time), because MFP underestimates my calorie needs. I felt fine, wasn't hungry . . . until suddenly, I didn't feel good at all. I got weak and fatigued. Even though I corrected as soon as I realized I was losing too fast for my own good, it took several weeks to recover normal strength and energy. A few months later, I experienced some hair thinning, quite possibly related.

Will this happen to you? I don't know. It's not guaranteed, either way. I hope not. Some people experience no obvious long-term consequences from losing weight too fast. I hope you're one of them. Some people experience very dire consequences, even in the range where you're eating now. (https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10761904/under-1200-for-weight-loss/p1) I hope you're not one of those.

I would give you nutritional advice if I could, but I can't. The strategies I use wouldn't fit with your lower carb goals.

I put hemp and flax seeds, plus walnuts, in my daily oatmeal. I get a nice jolt of potassium from the blackstrap molasses (carefully chosen brand) that I put in my oatmeal, too - but that's not just carbs, it's added sugar, and processed (though many people consider it a health food/supplement). I like fruits and veggies, so I eat them. Lots of them. (I'm ovo-lacto vegetarian, and have been for 45+ years, but I think it's fine for people to eat meat if that works for them. That part of my eating is completely irrelevant to weight management or health, IMO. It's just a personal preference, for my own reasons.)

As long as I get enough protein and healthy fats, I don't really care how many carbs I eat. Now, in maintenance, I eat around 200g or more carbs daily; while losing, it was 150g or so most days. I don't have any particular strong feelings about processed foods, but have found via long experience that I personally prefer eating mostly what most people would consider lower-processed or unprocessed foods, and the majority of processed foods I do eat tend to be things that humans have been eating for centuries or millennia, so they're pretty natural-selection-tested (I'm talking about things like plain yogurt, tofu, miso, etc.). I do eat the few and occasionally highly-processed foods, which doesn't seem to have dire consequences for my weight management or health. I don't believe I've ever eaten - as a pattern - in the way that your refrigerator photo represents (though I've certainly eaten individually highly processed foods on some occasions). (As an aside, I think you're factually wrong in some respects about the role of carbs and insulin, admittedly. Neither my reading nor my experience agree with your beliefs about those, but I won't try to talk you out of them here.)

So, I'm about your size, and I've found solutions for myself for some of the things you're concerned about, but they're solutions that won't work within your chosen approach. I'd like to help, but I don't know how. I'm sorry.

The one thing I could say, that I haven't seen (apologies if I missed it), is that some people like psyllium husk as a fiber supplement. It's a somewhat processed product, but fairly lightly processed - the husk of a plant seed. Perhaps you might want to look into that, if you haven't tried it, and see whether it's something you would consider.

Best wishes!

mmapags · March 2020

mmapags wrote: »

foolforcarbos wrote: »

Also, remember, I started at higher calories when I weighed more, and have been lowering them, three times thus far, and do not plan on going under 1,450. I started at 1875, then went down after 8 lbs, and then went down, and so on.

Doesn't matter. The nutritional floor is there for a reason. Eating below it will result in malnutrition over time. Soft nails, fatigue, hair falling out. Good luck with that.

Did I mention losing muscle mass??

mmapags · March 2020

foolforcarbos wrote: »

I don't plan on doing this forever. Just for now. Then when I hit my weight, can start a maintenance program. I did this for 5 years in Alaska. For 6-7 months at a time. Then came home and starting eating and would gain some weight. But at the end of each season, I was usually 118-120 lbs. Had room to gain weight.

Never experienced any of those side effects. No fatigue. No hair loss. No soft nails. No cavities. No muscle loss. No shallow breathing. No loss of stamina. Felt fine. Sure, missed carbs and sugars out there. I quit the last year when I was suppose to, and didn't go a day longer, because I was craving a cheeseburger and packed up and packed out, to town. Boy, was that a great burger. Prior, I usually stayed out a few weeks more. But that last year, nope.

Of course. Everybody does.
Until they don't.

As I said, good luck with all this. You are sure you have it all figured out. So, knock yourself out.

I've seen lots come and go around here in the last 10 years. It never works out well in the long term for those who take an overly aggressive approach. There are many posts from people who took this approach. It never turns out well.

But hey, I'm sure you'll be the exception...

psychod787 · March 2020

Yup... I'm done with this... op... best of luck... careful the road you travel....

foolforcarbos · March 2020

Thanks Ann. I'll look you up and talk more when I get into the maintenance end of it. Till then, I will look into the psyllium husk supplement you mentioned, for fiber. I miss Alaska and the ability to go year after year and circumnavigate a new area each year. But I can't right now. So, I kayak on the lake near by, and use an island out there that really no one goes to. It's large enough to hike around on, and when windy, it can be a good workout to pop over there and back. But when you exercise enough, or kayak, as many days as I seem to be doing right now, its pretty easy to feel when you may be off. That signal to eat more carbs and put in a bit of weight. I surely get enough proteins. But in Alaska, or when I was working on the boats out in the Bering Sea, or the tuna boats 700 miles north of Hawaii, it was just go go go. I'm cool with that. Keep moving.

Today's menu looked a bit thin, lots of protein, but not much of anything else besides romaine lettuce. Usually, there is more veggies, like bell peppers and mushrooms or green beans. Today was lean. But you saw what was in my refrig vs what I kicked out of the freezer, all those frozen dinners, and I have plenty of whole foods around. The flax seeds you mentioned, I like. I use to buy flax seed tortilla chips. Loved them. I don't miss the high processed foods, at all.

I also want to thank you for respecting what I am researching and believing in, from my time looking into foods. So thank you for not trying to convert me to your line of thoughts. I am looking at more than youtube videos, or websites that have articles, and am reading research papers, usually linked somewhere in there, to the actual studies, but I guess some here will call me the video guy. That's fine. I still struggle to understand why one can't watch a video, decide if they agree to any of it, and then follow that up with research. I keep being told I am pushing my beliefs and yet have stated I don't believe in everything on any site or in any video. I do that with our mainstream media every day. I don't take what they say as honest till I find their sources. LOL

But thanks Ann. Sometimes helping is accepting - and still planting seeds you hope to grow in another person, while not judging. That way they can maybe, if necessary, look back one day and say Hey, that person tried to tellme that. That's cool. But sometimes those days never come and that seed never grows. And that, too, is cool.

mmapags, I am chalking our discussions up to the fact that you are concerned, genuinely, about my health or anyone else's health who is eating and exercising the way I am. I don't mean to look defensive, but I am comfortable with my process. If I were to feel tingly or light headed, I would stop and go eat. But I feel energy and satiated. So I push on. I can imagine you have seen a lot come and go in ten years. And yet, I am not boasting to be the exception. I simple know, after years of caloric deficits, what to expect. This is what years of my life were like. Again, you can only take so much food (78 days) at a time. I would go 45 days no human contact in remote areas. Just normal for me.

I am starting now, while I have the opportunity, to try - in moderation, new foods that I hope to include long term. I don't want a repeat like in Alaska where one day I just quit this and go start slamming the foods I am now mainly avoiding. So to do that, I need to learn what I enjoy - so it's not just a diet, but a lifestyle of good foods. I hope if I ask other questions, you will continue to give me your thoughts. I appreciate them always.

We can't always agree, but we can always listen.

foolforcarbos · March 2020

I'll throw these up. In Alaska, standing by the boat, at a 27/28 inch waist and maybe 124 lbs. That's a small men's shirt. I ended up buying a few kids shirts later that summer, because they fit. And I was down to 118 lbs. Too small.

Then 11 years later, and that photo of me walking my dog, was when I decided - enough. Saw that photo and came here, to MFP. That was a 34 inch waist and 177 lbs. (by waist I, here, I mean pants size).

When there is nicer weather, will post after 1 full month where I am at. But at least you can see what I am trying to accomplish. Back to 130 would be a dream. 135-138 would be so acceptable. I would love it.

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