Intuitive Eating vs. Dieting
KOO2020
Posts: 19 Member
Hi,
This is my first time on MFP as an Intuitive Eater. I am interested in knowing if anyone eats intuitively on here or just diets. I feel like anytime tracking is involved it is somewhat of a diet. I believe that dieting causes weight gain, so I am a little hesitant to track what I eat, but I did not know if anyone else has some feedback?
Thank you so much!
This is my first time on MFP as an Intuitive Eater. I am interested in knowing if anyone eats intuitively on here or just diets. I feel like anytime tracking is involved it is somewhat of a diet. I believe that dieting causes weight gain, so I am a little hesitant to track what I eat, but I did not know if anyone else has some feedback?
Thank you so much!
3
Replies
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How do you define 'dieting'?
I am dieting in the sense of eating less calories than I burn. Aside from counting calories, I don't follow any specific 'diet', I just mostly eat the same foods as before in more appropriate quantities.
I don't see how that causes weight gain. I've lost over 30 lbs and it's the only thing that has worked for me. And quite honestly, I never thought losing weight could be this easy.
'intuitive eating' is what got me obese.16 -
Yes, I understand what you are saying. I guess I define dieting as not going over an allotment you've set for yourself. For example, if your diet requires 1,600 calories and you go over by 100 and start to feel guilty, or feel the need to exercise or find another compulsion to try to "make up for it." Again, this is my personal opinion.
I will say, for me, dieting always caused me to overeat in the sense that if I felt like I had "ruined my day," or "ate too much," then I would feel incredibly guilty and try to find a way to make up for it- like exercise... OR, I would just say, "screw it," and eat whatever I wanted because I felt like I had blown my day/ diet.1 -
You can track cals without doing that, however. I found it helpful to work on my own all or nothing tendencies and the logical approach that tracking is combined with for me made it easier to do so -- I could see that eating above my goal but below maintenance would still mean an overall loss over time, whereas going nuts and eating all the things because my day was perfect would cause weight gain. I also could work in maintenance days where I had room for a restaurant meal or some such and just didn't go over maintenance.
I also was able to teach myself mindful eating such that I can basically eat an amount that is maintenance for me at my level of activity without having to track, although I still do track from time to time, mainly because I find focusing on nutrition goals and such interesting and it keeps me motivated (it's too easy for me to fall into "I don't care" mode when other things are taking my time and energy).7 -
Intuitive eating is a really trendy term, IMHO, just to say, watch what you eat and be mindful. For most that have been heavy, it doesn't work. It's the eating version of "just say no", which we all know has worked so well
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Hi,
This is my first time on MFP as an Intuitive Eater. I am interested in knowing if anyone eats intuitively on here or just diets. I feel like anytime tracking is involved it is somewhat of a diet. I believe that dieting causes weight gain, so I am a little hesitant to track what I eat, but I did not know if anyone else has some feedback?
Thank you so much!
That question is hard for me to understand, so I think I'm missing something. Frankly, it seems a little like "I wonder if someone on here lifts weights or just works out?" "Dieting" and "intuitive eating" seem like terms with some possible overlap and interconnections.
What does "diet" mean to you?
My view: Everyone has a diet (noun), just the stuff we eat and the way we eat it. Some people are "on a diet" or say they're "dieting", i.e., following a special way of eating for particular reasons. Sometimes that's something like a managed-carb diet for diabetics, or a low-protein diet for certain kinds of liver disease, but sometimes it's a lower calorie diet with the goal of weight loss.
The lower calorie diet can be achieved in various ways. Some people can achieve it with intuitive eating, but others intuitively over-eat. Some people like to calorie-count to achieve lowered calories and do great that way, but that can be a slippery slope to obsession or an eating disorder for some other people. There are lots of ways to accomplish the reduced calories that lead to weight loss, with or without counting those calories.
So, I think I have a diet (noun). It's not a well-defined strict-rules things, but I strive for balanced nutrition, with medium-high protein, and for taste/satiation reasons generaly prefer lots of simple foods people have eaten for centuries or millennia (but a few "highly processed" foods, too); and I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian (have been for 45 years).
Because I have a self-indulgent (hedonistic!) personality type, intuitive eating didn't work all that well for me. I was obese for 3 decades plus, until 2015. Calorie counting, as a strategy for losing weight and maintaining weight, has worked great for me, without stress or obsession, because I'm generally kind of data geek, so it's like a fun science fair project for grown-ups to me; I'm not inclined to be obsessive to an inappropriate degree by nature; and it only takes me a few minutes a day for some pretty major benefits in return. It lets me balance my immediate self-indulgences with a need for even-older me (I'm already 64) to be strong and healthy.
I think it's really important for each of us to understand what our individual personalities will respond to, and how to harness our personal strengths (and mitigate our personal weaknesses), in order to find a sensible way to eat that helps us be both physically and mentally healthy . . . and that's going to be a different way, from person to person.15 -
You can track cals without doing that, however. I found it helpful to work on my own all or nothing tendencies and the logical approach that tracking is combined with for me made it easier to do so -- I could see that eating above my goal but below maintenance would still mean an overall loss over time, whereas going nuts and eating all the things because my day was perfect would cause weight gain. I also could work in maintenance days where I had room for a restaurant meal or some such and just didn't go over maintenance.
I also was able to teach myself mindful eating such that I can basically eat an amount that is maintenance for me at my level of activity without having to track, although I still do track from time to time, mainly because I find focusing on nutrition goals and such interesting and it keeps me motivated (it's too easy for me to fall into "I don't care" mode when other things are taking my time and energy).
Yes, I can totally see how this would work for you. It is more than likely my personality. I just find that if I am told, I can't eat something, or I can eat 3 cookies only, it makes me feel restricted, and that restriction is what causes me to overeat/ binge eat- which in turn results in weight gain.2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Intuitive eating is a really trendy term, IMHO, just to say, watch what you eat and be mindful. For most that have been heavy, it doesn't work. It's the eating version of "just say no", which we all know has worked so well
I cannot relate to being heavy, other than just about 20 pounds overweight, so I can only come from my perspective and my personality. I know if I was ever told to restrict or stay within certain calorie limits it immediately made me want more, wheresas if I told myself I wanted a cookie and a piece of cake, I would eat it, enjoy it, and move on with my day, and not worry about if it fit into my calories, etc.1 -
Hi,
This is my first time on MFP as an Intuitive Eater. I am interested in knowing if anyone eats intuitively on here or just diets. I feel like anytime tracking is involved it is somewhat of a diet. I believe that dieting causes weight gain, so I am a little hesitant to track what I eat, but I did not know if anyone else has some feedback?
Thank you so much!
That question is hard for me to understand, so I think I'm missing something. Frankly, it seems a little like "I wonder if someone on here lifts weights or just works out?" "Dieting" and "intuitive eating" seem like terms with some possible overlap and interconnections.
What does "diet" mean to you?
My view: Everyone has a diet (noun), just the stuff we eat and the way we eat it. Some people are "on a diet" or say they're "dieting", i.e., following a special way of eating for particular reasons. Sometimes that's something like a managed-carb diet for diabetics, or a low-protein diet for certain kinds of liver disease, but sometimes it's a lower calorie diet with the goal of weight loss.
The lower calorie diet can be achieved in various ways. Some people can achieve it with intuitive eating, but others intuitively over-eat. Some people like to calorie-count to achieve lowered calories and do great that way, but that can be a slippery slope to obsession or an eating disorder for some other people. There are lots of ways to accomplish the reduced calories that lead to weight loss, with or without counting those calories.
So, I think I have a diet (noun). It's not a well-defined strict-rules things, but I strive for balanced nutrition, with medium-high protein, and for taste/satiation reasons generaly prefer lots of simple foods people have eaten for centuries or millennia (but a few "highly processed" foods, too); and I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian (have been for 45 years).
Because I have a self-indulgent (hedonistic!) personality type, intuitive eating didn't work all that well for me. I was obese for 3 decades plus, until 2015. Calorie counting, as a strategy for losing weight and maintaining weight, has worked great for me, without stress or obsession, because I'm generally kind of data geek, so it's like a fun science fair project for grown-ups to me; I'm not inclined to be obsessive to an inappropriate degree by nature; and it only takes me a few minutes a day for some pretty major benefits in return. It lets me balance my immediate self-indulgences with a need for even-older me (I'm already 64) to be strong and healthy.
I think it's really important for each of us to understand what our individual personalities will respond to, and how to harness our personal strengths (and mitigate our personal weaknesses), in order to find a sensible way to eat that helps us be both physically and mentally healthy . . . and that's going to be a different way, from person to person.
I completely agree with you that what works for one person, may not work for another. And that is totally okay! If something works for someone and is sustainable and healthy (mentally and physically), I hope they continue to do it. Something you said is interesting to me, though, "Frankly, it seems a little like "I wonder if someone on here lifts weights or just works out?" "Dieting" and "intuitive eating" seem like terms with some possible overlap and interconnections."
I think in some sense they may overlap, but I find dieting to be restrictive or not necessarily an internal cue, it may not be restrictive in what you eat, but in some form, whether it be calories/ fat grams/ carbohydrates, I do find it restricting (this is not for those that have certain medical conditions like diabetes, or lactose intolerant, etc.). AGAIN, this is my personal opinion. I find that intuitive eating is more listening to hunger and fullness cues and what you are in the mood for, rather than eating eggs because you need a little more fat and protein for the day.1 -
I recently posted something that I think is similar to what you are getting at.
I think that when the intuitive eating community talks about dieting, they are referring to all the worst versions of it. The most disordered, least sustainable, crash diets, etc. Yes there are some who say ANY thing you do to intentionally limit your eating or try to lose weight, no matter how balanced or reasonable you think it is, is wrong and bad and disordered.
The idea of intuitive eating is really appealing to so many of us who have had bad experiences with weight loss endeavors. And I have to point out that there are a number of popular intuitive eating dieticians on social media who promote this idea that your body will just perfectly lead the way and you'll end up at your "best weight"... who just so happen, for whatever reason, to be thin and post pictures of themselves eating donuts etc.
In my experience and my perspective, it would be nice... it would be very nice if we could all eat whatever sounds good at the time and not end up obese with all manner of related health conditions. But it's just not reality. There are reasons that people eat in a way that leads to problems.
Intuitive eating led to out of control weight gain for me. Tracking calories is a way to learn how to have a good relationship with food. I'm learning what an appropriate amount of food is.
ETA: I am eating cake, vegetables, pizza, fruit... whatever I want, just not massive quantities.11 -
That is great that this works for you! Dieting has never been a source of help for me, it led me down a very dangerous path, so I try to stay away from it. I know for some it is the solution, just not for me.3
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Intuitive eating was a complete disaster for me. Not saying it couldn't work for other people. My problem is that I'm constantly hungry, constantly craving food, and always ready to eat at the drop of a hat. If I "listened to my body" I'd be 400 pounds. Counting and logging calories and overcoming my urges through the sheer force of spreadsheet discipline is the only way I've been able to successfully lose weight, and I'm more than 100 % sure it is the only way I could possibly maintain once I get to goal weight.
There are a lot of ways to do this. For some people, intuitive eating works. For others, it doesn't.10 -
So much wisdom from @Lietchi, @lemurcat2, @MikePfirrman, @AnnPT77, @pink_mint, @lgfrie. I second all of their responses. I have found CICO to be THE most elementary tool to lose/maintain weight. No matter how you slice it, the law of thermodynamics doesn't lie. If counting calories raises negative emotions in you then don't do it. This may sound like an oxymoron but I combine "intuitive eating" with calorie counting and love it! I have a weekly/sometimes biweekly budget of calories that "I" willingly agree to eat to maintain/lose fat. I eat everything I personally enjoy within my budget. I do not follow any particular diet trend. Over the years I've observed what foods are enjoyable to me and leave me feeling great and energized. I like to design my "diet" the way I like. There is no food police over me. It's on my terms😊. Eating completely based on my feelings in the moment, day after day led me to gain fat. As one of my favorite philosophers once wisely said, "Feelings, feelings, feelings...let me try thinking instead"...YMMV💐12
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OP you have to realize that you're posting on a calorie counting site. I'd say that the majority do this, and many have found it to be eye opening and a godsend. There crop up questions about Intuitive Eating now and again. The responses are similar to what you're seeing. Some people can do it. It sounds great--just eat until you're full, listen to your body,....... The reality is somewhat different. Some of us like calorie counting. It's no chore and takes a few minutes, and we don't get obsessive. So, wish you the best of luck and hope it works for you.10
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I guess I inhabit the middle ground between calorie counting and intuitive eating - I eat mindfully and maintain long term at a healthy goal weight pretty easily doing so and don't need to log, measure or track my food intake.
Calorie counting was a useful and educational tool when I dieted to lose my excess weight but I don't suffer from any of the very negative feelings and behaviours that you do. I think you should maybe reflect that calorie counting and other forms of dieting for weight loss are not the root cause of those behaviours - a trigger for you but not the cause. Perhaps it's the cause and not the trigger you could try to resolve?
Dieting (as in calorie restriction) didn't make me gain weight - it allowed me to lose my excess weight in a sensible and controlled way. The words diet (noun and verb) and dieting have no emotional baggage for me.
There are some true intuitive eaters (the simple meaning of IE is being dreadfully complicated and muddled by those with books to sell), my son is one. But the number of people who are or have been significantly overweight and can successfully manage their weight with IE is going to be far more rare. My personal experiment with IE led to a steady weight gain taking me from chubby to getting pretty fat - reinforced that what I feel I need is significantly more than my actual needs.
What I would say is that don't believe the current overblown hype around IE and don't feel a failure if it doesn't work out for you - do what you personally have to do for long term physical and emotional health. My son and I both maintain at healthy weights. He eats when hungry, stops when full and I have to put a little conscious thought into thinking am I really hungry or just eating because I enjoy nice food in slightly higher amounts than I actually need. Neither method is morally superior to the other - different means to the same end.
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Thank you all for your feedback- I know we may disagree and that is 100% okay. Thank you for being kind and supportive. I just was curious to see others feedback.
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I wish I could get back to intuitive eating. When I was younger I would just stop eating. Other teachers (coworkers) would tease me that I would throw away half my school lunch. When I was full, I would stop. Now if the food is in front of me, I eat it. I don't know why the change. Growing up, I was not forced to finish my plate or anything so stopping was intuitive. I definitely hope that I can transition into more intuitive eating once I get to my goal weight as I do not see calorie counting the rest of my life with an app on my phone. I don't think it's sustainable for me. I' 50 and hope to live to 80, so 30 years of MyFitnessPal seems like a lot!5
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Yes, I am a teacher and most of my students are intuitive eaters- I love watching them eat, and pick at their food. It is so interesting to me. If you don't mind me asking @denisekotz, what do you plan to do once you reach your goal weight? Do you think you will just cold turkey stop counting or stick to the foods you normally eat? I am just curious!
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I track what I eat because I realize the best way for me to maintain my weight is to ensure that the calories I'm consuming match the calories that my body is using. Within that context, I will still eat the foods that I enjoy, I'm just mindful of portion sizes and how it impacts meeting my overall nutritional needs.
If that is defined as "dieting," then it doesn't cause weight gain for me. In fact, it is what allowed me to get off the cycle of yo-yo weight loss that took up a big portion of my teens, twenties, and early thirties. I've been doing this since 2015 and it has allowed me to virtually eliminate most of my negative thoughts and behaviors around food.8 -
@janejellyroll , that is wonderful! I am so happy that this has worked for you! 2
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I think too much is made of intuitive eating. If a person wants to try it or needs to do it for their mental health that is fine for them.
I find calorie counting extremely relaxing. Even when some of my counts are guesses it still takes the guesswork out of the mix. All I have to do is hit my calorie goal most of the time and I can relax.
The thought of IE and living each day in doubt stresses me. I have gained a lot of freedom losing a ridiculous amount of weight. I am not interested in risking it because some corners of the internet think listening to your body is a moral good. My body can talk to someone else. I'd rather have numbers.13 -
I think too much is made of intuitive eating. If a person wants to try it or needs to do it for their mental health that is fine for them.
I found calorie counting extremely relaxing. Even when some of my counts are guesses it still takes the guesswork out of the mix. All I have to do is hit my calorie goal most of the time and I can relax.
The thought of IE and living each day in doubt stresses me. I have gained a lot of freedom losing a ridiculous amount of weight. I am not interested in risking it because some corners of the internet think listening to your body is a moral good. My body can talk to someone else. I'd rather have numbers.
Yes, for me personally, calorie counting virtually silences the part of my brain that was constantly asking "Should I have eaten that? Should I have eaten so much of that? What should I eat next? How much should I eat next? Did I eat the right thing last week? Will I eat the right things tomorrow?" It's incredibly freeing.
For the people who have the same results with intuitive eating, I'm thrilled for them. But I have no desire to try it myself.16 -
for me "intuitive eating" did not work for me. I just did or could not listen to my"body"- my problem is stopping when full esp. if it is a food that i really enjoy. I will usually eat until it is finished so therefore MFP / counting claories works for me- BECAUSe it sets limits for me. i decide what i want to eat and how much based on my goal i put in mfp- then the clorie counting helps me. If i want a high calorie food(one that i might over eat) i limit it based on the calories and eat lower calorie foods thoughtou the day to keep from going over my limit. I don't know if i will have to count calories the rst of my life like when i get to maintainence- BUT i know i will have to keep checks on my weight and way of eating for life.4
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janejellyroll wrote: »I think too much is made of intuitive eating. If a person wants to try it or needs to do it for their mental health that is fine for them.
I found calorie counting extremely relaxing. Even when some of my counts are guesses it still takes the guesswork out of the mix. All I have to do is hit my calorie goal most of the time and I can relax.
The thought of IE and living each day in doubt stresses me. I have gained a lot of freedom losing a ridiculous amount of weight. I am not interested in risking it because some corners of the internet think listening to your body is a moral good. My body can talk to someone else. I'd rather have numbers.
Yes, for me personally, calorie counting virtually silences the part of my brain that was constantly asking "Should I have eaten that? Should I have eaten so much of that? What should I eat next? How much should I eat next? Did I eat the right thing last week? Will I eat the right things tomorrow?" It's incredibly freeing.
For the people who have the same results with intuitive eating, I'm thrilled for them. But I have no desire to try it myself.
Amen.
The other thing it does is takes the sting out of exceeding my calorie goal. I can look at how one day fits in the week or even how a week fits into a month and see that it is no big deal.
It answers the question what happens when I go WAY over my calorie goal too like I have done on vacation. For one thing after I log I usually see that "way over" is not as far over as I imagined. Another thing is that after having done it enough times I can see that it translates to zero or next to no lasting weight rebound because, as mentioned, a day or a few days doesn't decide what happens. The final say is in a larger time frame.11 -
Hi,
... I am a little hesitant to track what I eat, but I did not know if anyone else has some feedback?
Thank you so much!
If you don't know where you're going you'll never arrive. If you don't know how you're going to get there, you will be late - if you arrive.
Why are you using My Fitness Pal? Weight loss? Gain? Other health concerns? Where are you going?
If weight loss; that is where you're going. But that's like saying you're going to Asia - be specific, where in Asia? What is the weight goal?
Once you know where you're going, it's time to dig out the map - decide how you're going to get to that weight. Although there are other considerations, you won't lose weight if you don't burn more calories than you take in. There is nothing intuitive about determining calories in:calories out.
Intuitive eating is following our natural desires to eat and then eat some more (not stop eating) for a rainy day, a time when calories are not available. Those who stop eating once they are full have already eaten too much - it takes the body about 20 minutes to react to a full stomach. Intuitive eating leads to weight gain, and most of that gain is fat off which we can feed at a later date.
We must be aware of what and how much we eat.
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OP you did post in a forum of a calorie counting app. The definition of true intuitive eating would tell you that you cannot both be an intuitive eater and track calories. So I don't think you are going to be overly successful finding many intuitive eaters here, bc why would they be on a tracking forum lol.
That being said, I have had an interesting relationship with food. I restricted and binged for about 10 years with 5-6 of them being rough. To get out of that cycle, I had to eat intuitively for awhile. I knew how many calories were in most things so I didn't forget that but any time I tried to track on an app it resulted in binging.
Fast forward to now. After healing my relationship with food and my brain, I can count on here without going crazy. I am 115-118 lbs and 5'2. I suck at losing below that hahaa. I try but I never want to go back to my binging days so if I feel too hungry, I have learned to just let myself eat now. I eat intuitively in the sense that I try to eat when hungry and stop when full. I find tracking to be fun sometimes and like seeing what nutrients I hit for the day. This app can help me avoid grossly overeating which generally makes me feel good. If I don't log, my weight tends to stay the same as I'm still eating the same things.
It sounds like you are at the point in your journey where you are benefiting more from intuitive eating so do it!!! If you feel better not counting, don't count.4 -
I tracked until I didn't have to..
To maintain I don't have to track...to lose I do.
so best of both worlds I can maintain intuitively but not to lose...go figure right....
PS I could lose but I like fitting my treats in so I track and plan ahead during loss phases.1 -
OP you did post in a forum of a calorie counting app. The definition of true intuitive eating would tell you that you cannot both be an intuitive eater and track calories. So I don't think you are going to be overly successful finding many intuitive eaters here, bc why would they be on a tracking forum lol.
That being said, I have had an interesting relationship with food. I restricted and binged for about 10 years with 5-6 of them being rough. To get out of that cycle, I had to eat intuitively for awhile. I knew how many calories were in most things so I didn't forget that but any time I tried to track on an app it resulted in binging.
Fast forward to now. After healing my relationship with food and my brain, I can count on here without going crazy. I am 115-118 lbs and 5'2. I suck at losing below that hahaa. I try but I never want to go back to my binging days so if I feel too hungry, I have learned to just let myself eat now. I eat intuitively in the sense that I try to eat when hungry and stop when full. I find tracking to be fun sometimes and like seeing what nutrients I hit for the day. This app can help me avoid grossly overeating which generally makes me feel good. If I don't log, my weight tends to stay the same as I'm still eating the same things.
It sounds like you are at the point in your journey where you are benefiting more from intuitive eating so do it!!! If you feel better not counting, don't count.
Thank you so much for sharing. I am around 120 pounds and 5'3". Do you mind me asking how many calories you eat? I am just curious as I am about the same. I generally eat about 1700-2000 a day to maintain. @HotFrieZ1 -
Just saw your reply now. I don't mind at all. I eat a lot lol but I enjoy being active. I eat 2000-2300 on average to maintain.0
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I was listening to a running podcast the other day and the takeaway (in his terms) was this: “intuitive eating is garbage. Most people who intuitively eat as their way of maintaining their weight can do so because they tracked their food for years and all that tracking taught them appropriate portion sizes, etc. if intuitive eating truly worked, no one would have been overweight to begin with because they would have all naturally been eating in a healthy way all along.”
Just throwing it in as something to consider!1 -
I was listening to a running podcast the other day and the takeaway (in his terms) was this: “intuitive eating is garbage. Most people who intuitively eat as their way of maintaining their weight can do so because they tracked their food for years and all that tracking taught them appropriate portion sizes, etc. if intuitive eating truly worked, no one would have been overweight to begin with because they would have all naturally been eating in a healthy way all along.”
Just throwing it in as something to consider!
I know a number of normal weight people who have been normal weight their entire lives and eat intuitively (or at least claim to). My husband is one of them. Sometimes he eats six times a day, sometimes he eats just once. Some days he probably has at least 3,000 calories, but other days he'll have fewer than 1,000. If he wants something, he'll go to the store and get it (in normal times, anyway).
Not everyone struggles with the urge to overeat. I have no doubt that intuitive eating can work for people in that category. Just because it wouldn't work *for me* doesn't mean that it wouldn't work for anyone.5
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