Bony to Beastly... A Scam?
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Do me a favor and don't link articles to your site, that would be advertising.
Also, i would, in all intents and purposes, suggest that Keto bulks might be suboptimal. There are things like TKD/CKD that might help, but again, little to not data.
Next, i did remember that study on Keto vs traditional. And the appetite suppression did impact their ability. Having said that, if you can overcome that issue, its a non issue. For cutting, Keto has been very good to me, albeit, i may be a bit more low carb since its summer and i want more fruit. For my bulk, i may run TKD as an experiment and will run PHAT or BEAXST (AthleanX). But we will see for TKD, because i do find it difficult at times to keep my calories high on Keto.
Having said all that, it doesn't really apply to the OP. He was at like 30% fat.
I'm sorry, psuLemon. I'm new here. I didn't know the etiquette. Now I do.1 -
ShaneDuquette wrote: »
Do me a favor and don't link articles to your site, that would be advertising.
Also, i would, in all intents and purposes, suggest that Keto bulks might be suboptimal. There are things like TKD/CKD that might help, but again, little to not data.
Next, i did remember that study on Keto vs traditional. And the appetite suppression did impact their ability. Having said that, if you can overcome that issue, its a non issue. For cutting, Keto has been very good to me, albeit, i may be a bit more low carb since its summer and i want more fruit. For my bulk, i may run TKD as an experiment and will run PHAT or BEAXST (AthleanX). But we will see for TKD, because i do find it difficult at times to keep my calories high on Keto.
Having said all that, it doesn't really apply to the OP. He was at like 30% fat.
I'm sorry, psuLemon. I'm new here. I didn't know the etiquette. Now I do.
No worries.0 -
ShaneDuquette wrote: »
Do me a favor and don't link articles to your site, that would be advertising.
Also, i would, in all intents and purposes, suggest that Keto bulks might be suboptimal. There are things like TKD/CKD that might help, but again, little to not data.
Next, i did remember that study on Keto vs traditional. And the appetite suppression did impact their ability. Having said that, if you can overcome that issue, its a non issue. For cutting, Keto has been very good to me, albeit, i may be a bit more low carb since its summer and i want more fruit. For my bulk, i may run TKD as an experiment and will run PHAT or BEAXST (AthleanX). But we will see for TKD, because i do find it difficult at times to keep my calories high on Keto.
Having said all that, it doesn't really apply to the OP. He was at like 30% fat.
I'm sorry, psuLemon. I'm new here. I didn't know the etiquette. Now I do.
No worries.
Also, I suspect I am the only person using Keto (CKD specifically) on this forum that have a lot of knowledge relating to bodybuilding getting lean. Ironically, I used to be against it (if you look at my post from several years ago) because data didn't support there being benefits. I do think a lot of that was driven based on limited data sets and/or study designs focused on bodybuilding. And it's even more difficult to draw conclusions as most of the famous Youtubers that are big, didn't get there on Keto but rather built their physique with bro-diets and transitioned to Keto. Also, a lot of the utilization of this diet in bodybuilders was for cutting.
Regardless, there is a point (right or wrong) that the individual response has to be more important (to that individual) than the data. That is what got me here. I tried for years (like 3-4) to get abs just doing flexible dieting and calorie counting. After failing for years, even while training hard, I said screw it and I went with keto. First time was a fail. Second time has been amazing. I am leaner now than I have been in 20 years. When I flex, I can see a 6 pack, and unflexed I can see the beginnings. And I still have a "good" amount of lower ab fat. Hoping another 5 lbs will solve that. My compliance is exponentially better than it was while doing Flexible dieting. So overall, Keto has been a game changer for me in getting real lean. Flexibile dieting did help me lose 50 lbs a decade ago but I maxed out at 173 lbs. With keto, I have gotten to 164 and continuing to make progress.1 -
ShaneDuquette wrote: »
Do me a favor and don't link articles to your site, that would be advertising.
Also, i would, in all intents and purposes, suggest that Keto bulks might be suboptimal. There are things like TKD/CKD that might help, but again, little to not data.
Next, i did remember that study on Keto vs traditional. And the appetite suppression did impact their ability. Having said that, if you can overcome that issue, its a non issue. For cutting, Keto has been very good to me, albeit, i may be a bit more low carb since its summer and i want more fruit. For my bulk, i may run TKD as an experiment and will run PHAT or BEAXST (AthleanX). But we will see for TKD, because i do find it difficult at times to keep my calories high on Keto.
Having said all that, it doesn't really apply to the OP. He was at like 30% fat.
I'm sorry, psuLemon. I'm new here. I didn't know the etiquette. Now I do.
No worries.
Also, I suspect I am the only person using Keto (CKD specifically) on this forum that have a lot of knowledge relating to bodybuilding getting lean. Ironically, I used to be against it (if you look at my post from several years ago) because data didn't support there being benefits. I do think a lot of that was driven based on limited data sets and/or study designs focused on bodybuilding. And it's even more difficult to draw conclusions as most of the famous Youtubers that are big, didn't get there on Keto but rather built their physique with bro-diets and transitioned to Keto. Also, a lot of the utilization of this diet in bodybuilders was for cutting.
Regardless, there is a point (right or wrong) that the individual response has to be more important (to that individual) than the data. That is what got me here. I tried for years (like 3-4) to get abs just doing flexible dieting and calorie counting. After failing for years, even while training hard, I said screw it and I went with keto. First time was a fail. Second time has been amazing. I am leaner now than I have been in 20 years. When I flex, I can see a 6 pack, and unflexed I can see the beginnings. And I still have a "good" amount of lower ab fat. Hoping another 5 lbs will solve that. My compliance is exponentially better than it was while doing Flexible dieting. So overall, Keto has been a game changer for me in getting real lean. Flexibile dieting did help me lose 50 lbs a decade ago but I maxed out at 173 lbs. With keto, I have gotten to 164 and continuing to make progress.
I hear ya. And I'm not knocking keto by any means. It's just for our audience of naturally skinny people who are trying to bulk up, it tends to make things harder.
For cutting, I think it's a really interesting option and the appetite suppression effects could be a total gamechanger. Mind you, for us naturally skinny guys, cutting tends to be pretty easy. So again, you're right, yeah, it comes down to the individual.1 -
ShaneDuquette wrote: »ShaneDuquette wrote: »
Do me a favor and don't link articles to your site, that would be advertising.
Also, i would, in all intents and purposes, suggest that Keto bulks might be suboptimal. There are things like TKD/CKD that might help, but again, little to not data.
Next, i did remember that study on Keto vs traditional. And the appetite suppression did impact their ability. Having said that, if you can overcome that issue, its a non issue. For cutting, Keto has been very good to me, albeit, i may be a bit more low carb since its summer and i want more fruit. For my bulk, i may run TKD as an experiment and will run PHAT or BEAXST (AthleanX). But we will see for TKD, because i do find it difficult at times to keep my calories high on Keto.
Having said all that, it doesn't really apply to the OP. He was at like 30% fat.
I'm sorry, psuLemon. I'm new here. I didn't know the etiquette. Now I do.
No worries.
Also, I suspect I am the only person using Keto (CKD specifically) on this forum that have a lot of knowledge relating to bodybuilding getting lean. Ironically, I used to be against it (if you look at my post from several years ago) because data didn't support there being benefits. I do think a lot of that was driven based on limited data sets and/or study designs focused on bodybuilding. And it's even more difficult to draw conclusions as most of the famous Youtubers that are big, didn't get there on Keto but rather built their physique with bro-diets and transitioned to Keto. Also, a lot of the utilization of this diet in bodybuilders was for cutting.
Regardless, there is a point (right or wrong) that the individual response has to be more important (to that individual) than the data. That is what got me here. I tried for years (like 3-4) to get abs just doing flexible dieting and calorie counting. After failing for years, even while training hard, I said screw it and I went with keto. First time was a fail. Second time has been amazing. I am leaner now than I have been in 20 years. When I flex, I can see a 6 pack, and unflexed I can see the beginnings. And I still have a "good" amount of lower ab fat. Hoping another 5 lbs will solve that. My compliance is exponentially better than it was while doing Flexible dieting. So overall, Keto has been a game changer for me in getting real lean. Flexibile dieting did help me lose 50 lbs a decade ago but I maxed out at 173 lbs. With keto, I have gotten to 164 and continuing to make progress.
I hear ya. And I'm not knocking keto by any means. It's just for our audience of naturally skinny people who are trying to bulk up, it tends to make things harder.
For cutting, I think it's a really interesting option and the appetite suppression effects could be a total gamechanger. Mind you, for us naturally skinny guys, cutting tends to be pretty easy. So again, you're right, yeah, it comes down to the individual.
Most definitely. But don't confuse my discussion of what can be done vs a recommendation. I was merely pointing out that the OPs poor gains weren't really driven by consuming "too much fat", but rather poor lifting program choice and possibly poor nutrition.5 -
ShaneDuquette wrote: »ShaneDuquette wrote: »
Do me a favor and don't link articles to your site, that would be advertising.
Also, i would, in all intents and purposes, suggest that Keto bulks might be suboptimal. There are things like TKD/CKD that might help, but again, little to not data.
Next, i did remember that study on Keto vs traditional. And the appetite suppression did impact their ability. Having said that, if you can overcome that issue, its a non issue. For cutting, Keto has been very good to me, albeit, i may be a bit more low carb since its summer and i want more fruit. For my bulk, i may run TKD as an experiment and will run PHAT or BEAXST (AthleanX). But we will see for TKD, because i do find it difficult at times to keep my calories high on Keto.
Having said all that, it doesn't really apply to the OP. He was at like 30% fat.
I'm sorry, psuLemon. I'm new here. I didn't know the etiquette. Now I do.
No worries.
Also, I suspect I am the only person using Keto (CKD specifically) on this forum that have a lot of knowledge relating to bodybuilding getting lean. Ironically, I used to be against it (if you look at my post from several years ago) because data didn't support there being benefits. I do think a lot of that was driven based on limited data sets and/or study designs focused on bodybuilding. And it's even more difficult to draw conclusions as most of the famous Youtubers that are big, didn't get there on Keto but rather built their physique with bro-diets and transitioned to Keto. Also, a lot of the utilization of this diet in bodybuilders was for cutting.
Regardless, there is a point (right or wrong) that the individual response has to be more important (to that individual) than the data. That is what got me here. I tried for years (like 3-4) to get abs just doing flexible dieting and calorie counting. After failing for years, even while training hard, I said screw it and I went with keto. First time was a fail. Second time has been amazing. I am leaner now than I have been in 20 years. When I flex, I can see a 6 pack, and unflexed I can see the beginnings. And I still have a "good" amount of lower ab fat. Hoping another 5 lbs will solve that. My compliance is exponentially better than it was while doing Flexible dieting. So overall, Keto has been a game changer for me in getting real lean. Flexibile dieting did help me lose 50 lbs a decade ago but I maxed out at 173 lbs. With keto, I have gotten to 164 and continuing to make progress.
I hear ya. And I'm not knocking keto by any means. It's just for our audience of naturally skinny people who are trying to bulk up, it tends to make things harder.
For cutting, I think it's a really interesting option and the appetite suppression effects could be a total gamechanger. Mind you, for us naturally skinny guys, cutting tends to be pretty easy. So again, you're right, yeah, it comes down to the individual.
Most definitely. But don't confuse my discussion of what can be done vs a recommendation. I was merely pointing out that the OPs poor gains weren't really driven by consuming "too much fat", but rather poor lifting program choice and possibly poor nutrition.
Yes, so hopefully I can make some good gains with the Bony to Beastly program.
I also looked at my food diary and realized that there are days where almost 50% of my calories come from pizza or subway. So I definitely have to clean up that part of my diet. Maybe cook more food and bring it to work rather than relying on "outside" food.4 -
Refer to the "Great Fitness Industry Scam" in the "Debate: Health and Fitness" section of MFP....before doing so, the information shared by the gentleman representing said program has provided some useful information in regards to progressive growth and sustainability in regards to quote on quote "hardgainers", i want to be clear on that....aside from a properly diagnosed medical issue that inhibits weight gain/loss/muscle growth, the bulk of most individual's success will come from trial and error, actually taking the time to assess and adjust according to individual needs, and consistency to the process.
Good luck OP in whichever program you choose to adhere to, track your results, and adjust as needed.0 -
asianambition wrote: »ShaneDuquette wrote: »ShaneDuquette wrote: »
Do me a favor and don't link articles to your site, that would be advertising.
Also, i would, in all intents and purposes, suggest that Keto bulks might be suboptimal. There are things like TKD/CKD that might help, but again, little to not data.
Next, i did remember that study on Keto vs traditional. And the appetite suppression did impact their ability. Having said that, if you can overcome that issue, its a non issue. For cutting, Keto has been very good to me, albeit, i may be a bit more low carb since its summer and i want more fruit. For my bulk, i may run TKD as an experiment and will run PHAT or BEAXST (AthleanX). But we will see for TKD, because i do find it difficult at times to keep my calories high on Keto.
Having said all that, it doesn't really apply to the OP. He was at like 30% fat.
I'm sorry, psuLemon. I'm new here. I didn't know the etiquette. Now I do.
No worries.
Also, I suspect I am the only person using Keto (CKD specifically) on this forum that have a lot of knowledge relating to bodybuilding getting lean. Ironically, I used to be against it (if you look at my post from several years ago) because data didn't support there being benefits. I do think a lot of that was driven based on limited data sets and/or study designs focused on bodybuilding. And it's even more difficult to draw conclusions as most of the famous Youtubers that are big, didn't get there on Keto but rather built their physique with bro-diets and transitioned to Keto. Also, a lot of the utilization of this diet in bodybuilders was for cutting.
Regardless, there is a point (right or wrong) that the individual response has to be more important (to that individual) than the data. That is what got me here. I tried for years (like 3-4) to get abs just doing flexible dieting and calorie counting. After failing for years, even while training hard, I said screw it and I went with keto. First time was a fail. Second time has been amazing. I am leaner now than I have been in 20 years. When I flex, I can see a 6 pack, and unflexed I can see the beginnings. And I still have a "good" amount of lower ab fat. Hoping another 5 lbs will solve that. My compliance is exponentially better than it was while doing Flexible dieting. So overall, Keto has been a game changer for me in getting real lean. Flexibile dieting did help me lose 50 lbs a decade ago but I maxed out at 173 lbs. With keto, I have gotten to 164 and continuing to make progress.
I hear ya. And I'm not knocking keto by any means. It's just for our audience of naturally skinny people who are trying to bulk up, it tends to make things harder.
For cutting, I think it's a really interesting option and the appetite suppression effects could be a total gamechanger. Mind you, for us naturally skinny guys, cutting tends to be pretty easy. So again, you're right, yeah, it comes down to the individual.
Most definitely. But don't confuse my discussion of what can be done vs a recommendation. I was merely pointing out that the OPs poor gains weren't really driven by consuming "too much fat", but rather poor lifting program choice and possibly poor nutrition.
Yes, so hopefully I can make some good gains with the Bony to Beastly program.
I also looked at my food diary and realized that there are days where almost 50% of my calories come from pizza or subway. So I definitely have to clean up that part of my diet. Maybe cook more food and bring it to work rather than relying on "outside" food.
You need to create a surplus (the concrete amount has yet to be determined accurately through studies) of calories to build muscle.....even recommended amounts of protein (0.6 -1g per lb of bodyweight) has yet to be proven 100% accurate for every human being on the planet......the starting point is learning how to track these results specifically to your goals....your food choices are not the absolute here.0 -
most definitely NOT a scam. These guys are freaking awesome and I can't recommend them enough. I used their workouts and nutrition coaching to bulk up from a super skinny 170 lbs up to 215 at my heaviest. Shane, Jared, and Marco are real ones. Freaking love those guys. Don't knock it til you try it yall, they're friggin legit, and I'm a health coach now so I give them props wherever I can.
If you have any questions hit me up ANYWHERE (rickyleemay is my tag on all the platforms haha) and I'd be happy to talk with you. And no they didn't pay me to say this I just owe so much to b2b lol I'm a big supporter0 -
I just want to add my own endorsement of the Bony to Beastly programme having been through a bulk and a cut following tow of their programmes and just starting out on a third. I started out at 184lbs with practically no muscle (my wife told me I felt like I'd wasted away) but also carried a ridiculous 36" belly that was totally out of kilter with the rest of my frame. Following 6 phases of the Bony to Beastly programme I put on 28lbs in 6 months, there were some periods of injury, holidays and illness that prolonged the timeframe but I was very happy with the results. Beyond the workout sheets, the online members forum was a great source of advice and motivation as was the individual support offered by the founders and coaches from dietary advice to reviewing my technique via video sharing.
I didn't find it especially expensive to be honest, the equivalent of three PT sessions, so in that regard it was great value for a 25 week programme (if one starts with the novice Phase 0 as I did), 12 months online support, 340 page e-book, recipe book and workout spreadsheets to track progress.0 -
The last 2 posters responded with their testimonials and it’s both their first post 🤔.
Yeah, definitely not a fan of program testimonials on here when I’m trying to steer clear of them all day everyday. But I did enjoy reading about the science everyone shared back in 2020. I’m learning so much from this site and it’s free. Any update on the OP since then?0 -
Scam.........eh. Any well thought out program with the right amount of calories and macros for an individual works if followed. There are so many free ones out there. But as a trainer in the fitness industry, some people just need someone to be there to push them or encourage them to do what they need to.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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