Sugar and Science Dilemma
HHAEYOUNG73
Posts: 16 Member
So this is somewhat of a play of topics but I will present two scenarios. Subject A we will call bob. Subject B we will call Sam. They are both on a calorie DEFICIT but bob is only getting the minimum required of .8g protein per pound of bw and the rest of his calories are coming from PURE SUGAR. Sam on the other hand is getting all his calories from "clean and natural produce(nothing man made or factory made) and 1g protein per pound bw(so fruit sugars are basically his only primary source of sugars). As these subjects are both in a deficit, what effect does the pure sugar vs the natural products have on the subjects. My assumption AT FIRST was that bob would lose fat but more muscle due to a need for protein but thats why i made sure in this experiment he would get the minimum requirement. And that Sam would also lose fat but retain muscle due to CICO following his required protein. So the dilemma is, would Bob lose less fat... or even possibly GAIN fat because of his huge amounts of sugar?(let's just go with 300g so basically 1200 calories from pure sugar and the rest from protein to make up for the average deficit of 1800-2000 calories).
Would love to hear some genuine responses to this scenario. I'm interested in maybe studying nutrition in the future so this might be of use haha
Would love to hear some genuine responses to this scenario. I'm interested in maybe studying nutrition in the future so this might be of use haha
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Replies
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I predict Bob and Sam will lose weight at the same pace, assuming they have the same calorie deficit, weight, height, and age. I don't believe the composition of calories means a damned thing for weight loss purposes.
However, Bob will die of malnutrition before the study is complete, since all he is eating is protein and sugar. There are things the body requires that he won't be getting.31 -
Possibility 1:
They will lose weight at the same rate, but Bob will probably feel horrible, with all those sugar highs and lows, and lack of fiber to facilitate bowel movements, and he will probably feel hungrier than Sam too.
I'm guessing Bob will not die of mulnutrition, simply because he'll feel so bad that he'll give up and quit his diet.
Possibility 2: same as 1, except Bob might feel so bad that he'll lack the energy to be as active as he was before, therefore reducing his calorie deficit and losing weight slower than Sam (or not losing weight at all, or even gaining, depending on the chosen deficit).9 -
Many factors come into play if this was a real scenario. If Bob and Sam were bio robots with no nutritional needs, emotional responses, hunger signals, or activity adaptations, they'll lose roughly the same amount of fat give or take.
In a real scenario, either of them could lose more weight than the other. There are thousands of reasons this could happen, but here is a couple:
- It's easy to calculate the calories in pure sugar, so Bob could be eating the correct amount of calories and Sam could end up uner-estimating his intake due to the complexities of food composition.
- Bob could feel very hungry and overeat, and Sam could feel too full and undereat because he's not used to that kind of food volume.
- Either of them could quit prematurely because the diet is not sustainable. Bob could quit because of hunger and lack of variety, and Sam could quit because he's cutting out many of the foods he loves.
- Bob could take up running and burn more calories.
- Sam could take up weight lifting and have water retention because of muscle recovery.
Edited to add: we could speculate all we want - people have done the craziest things to lose weight, but an actual experiment with these parameters would be highly flawed, not to mention unethical.
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The point of these scenarios is lost on me.
Even if Bob and Sam were exactly the same and were kept in a laboratory doing exactly same activity and one fed diet A and one fed diet B and either diet A or B resulted in faster weight loss, then what???
What is the real life application of this??
We all know if their calorie intake is the same and everything else is the same, they are a pair of identical twins and made to do exactly same excercise as each other, then their weight loss pace will be pretty much the same.
Any laboratory difference would be minimal.
In real life neither extreme diet is likely to be sustainable for anyone and nobody is likely to to change everything in their individual life (or certainly not for very long) to acheive some minimal theoretical benifit
If you are planning to study nutrition, I think you would be better off studying scenarios with real life application12 -
Based off your last post. I think you studying nutrition and how the body works is a really great idea. Regardless of this created scenario I hope you follow through.11
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Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.7
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snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...6 -
snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
Change it from simple syrup to maple syrup, and that sounds like a real winner.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
Change it from simple syrup to maple syrup, and that sounds like a real winner.
I'm sorry, but maple syrup has trace minerals and fails to meet the "pure sugar" standard of my carefully calibrated weight loss plan.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
Change it from simple syrup to maple syrup, and that sounds like a real winner.
I'm sorry, but maple syrup has trace minerals and fails to meet the "pure sugar" standard of my carefully calibrated weight loss plan.
Will the chicken and eggs at least be organic?2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
TAKE MY MONEY!!!!6 -
The protein + sugar guy wouldn't thrive, and maybe wouldn't even live all that long; and would be ravenous. Fat is an essential nutrient - we need to eat some. Other than that minor detail, they'd lose weight at the same rate, I expect, but it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The "clean and natural" thing is a red herring (might affect satiation, because many people find whole foods satiating, but that's speculative . . . though certainly better satiation than a diet with zero fat intake).
That's "Rabbit Starvation" (also has other names).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning#:~:text=Protein%20poisoning%20(also%20referred%20to,of%20fat%20in%20the%20diet.
Yes, learn more about nutrition. Way more. A quick Google search would get you further than this silliness.
Calories determine weight loss, but really stupid ways of eating can be deadly before that plays out. If I went on the "only antifreeze" diet, at the same calories as someone doing "Whole 30", I'd die pretty much immediately. That's useful information about the toxicity of antifreeze, but tells us nothing useful or practical about weight loss.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
Change it from simple syrup to maple syrup, and that sounds like a real winner.
I'm sorry, but maple syrup has trace minerals and fails to meet the "pure sugar" standard of my carefully calibrated weight loss plan.
Will the chicken and eggs at least be organic?
Would chicken and egg even be possible, being that neither is pure protein and would mean you would also be eating .... fat!6 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
Change it from simple syrup to maple syrup, and that sounds like a real winner.
I'm sorry, but maple syrup has trace minerals and fails to meet the "pure sugar" standard of my carefully calibrated weight loss plan.
Will the chicken and eggs at least be organic?
Would chicken and egg even be possible, being that neither is pure protein and would mean you would also be eating .... fat!
Chicken and egg not possible, because the egg came first.5 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
Change it from simple syrup to maple syrup, and that sounds like a real winner.
I'm sorry, but maple syrup has trace minerals and fails to meet the "pure sugar" standard of my carefully calibrated weight loss plan.
Will the chicken and eggs at least be organic?
Would chicken and egg even be possible, being that neither is pure protein and would mean you would also be eating .... fat!
Jane said egg white. Not egg. Yellow goopy part not allowed.
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
Change it from simple syrup to maple syrup, and that sounds like a real winner.
I'm sorry, but maple syrup has trace minerals and fails to meet the "pure sugar" standard of my carefully calibrated weight loss plan.
Will the chicken and eggs at least be organic?
Would chicken and egg even be possible, being that neither is pure protein and would mean you would also be eating .... fat!
Jane said egg white. Not egg. Yellow goopy part not allowed.
Even egg white has a teeny, weeny amount of fat in it. Less than a gram but still totally unacceptable for an experiment such as this 5 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Hmmm........I don't think it makes any difference because it won't happen. If you want strange scenarios just stick around. We get some real doozies, some things that no aspiring nutritionist could ever dream up.
You mean someone won't hit a protein target and then have all the rest of their calorie from pure sugar. I'm shocked!! I though this happened all the time. Now I know what I've been doing wrong all this time...
There goes my plan to market my amazing chicken breast, egg white, and simple syrup smoothie diet.
Change it from simple syrup to maple syrup, and that sounds like a real winner.
I'm sorry, but maple syrup has trace minerals and fails to meet the "pure sugar" standard of my carefully calibrated weight loss plan.
Will the chicken and eggs at least be organic?
Would chicken and egg even be possible, being that neither is pure protein and would mean you would also be eating .... fat!
Jane said egg white. Not egg. Yellow goopy part not allowed.
Even egg white has a teeny, weeny amount of fat in it. Less than a gram but still totally unacceptable for an experiment such as this
Darn it, back to the drawing board!0 -
Ok, first off. You have to equate protein and fiber in the diets to be fair. Second, this has been tested pretty close to this scenario. As I stated above when protein and fiber are equated, impossible on thisbe situation weight loss is not significantly different from high sugar diets and non high sugar diets. Case closed imho.3
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HHAEYOUNG73 wrote: »So this is somewhat of a play of topics but I will present two scenarios. Subject A we will call bob. Subject B we will call Sam. They are both on a calorie DEFICIT but bob is only getting the minimum required of .8g protein per pound of bw and the rest of his calories are coming from PURE SUGAR. Sam on the other hand is getting all his calories from "clean and natural produce(nothing man made or factory made) and 1g protein per pound bw(so fruit sugars are basically his only primary source of sugars). As these subjects are both in a deficit, what effect does the pure sugar vs the natural products have on the subjects. My assumption AT FIRST was that bob would lose fat but more muscle due to a need for protein but thats why i made sure in this experiment he would get the minimum requirement. And that Sam would also lose fat but retain muscle due to CICO following his required protein. So the dilemma is, would Bob lose less fat... or even possibly GAIN fat because of his huge amounts of sugar?(let's just go with 300g so basically 1200 calories from pure sugar and the rest from protein to make up for the average deficit of 1800-2000 calories).
Would love to hear some genuine responses to this scenario. I'm interested in maybe studying nutrition in the future so this might be of use haha
This is a hypothetical scenario, not an experiment. Because it only exists in our imagination (an experiment is something done in real life to learn how things work), anything can happen. So my answer is neither of them will lose any fat because aliens will come down out of the sky, see how bad things are in 2020, and blow the planet up as an act of mercy.12
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