Over-training??

I think weight and overtraining are separate issues. There's been some great threads on the signs of overtraining. The most two important signs are do you dread working out? Also, is your resting HR (when you first wake up) elevated. If so to one or both, back off for a few days and then start back up. Overall, you're not doing too, too much (seems like a good routine). HIIT 3X per week, if really driving your HR up to 90% max, is a lot. If you're not sure it's 90% of max, it's likely not real HIIT.

Eating too little is a fallacy. Seems like you're alluding to "starvation mode" which isn't a real thing.

The last five pounds take accuracy in everything you put in your mouth, no cheat days and really being honest with food measurements. How much is the last five pounds worth? Is it an arbitrary stretch number that's just important to you? Is it realistic?

Someone suggested you might be overtraining? Did they have any basis for saying that, other than that you're training an amount they think is a lot? For example, do they have any exercise science or medical credentials? Did you mention any symptoms to them, other than weight loss being slow?

There's a difference between "overtraining" (a technical thing that, oversimplifying, has to do with cumulative fatigue causing physiological effects), and "training too much" (which is a more informal idea that could mean various different things depending on who said it - and they may call it "overtraining", not knowing that that has a technical definition).

For example, if your mom/roommate/boss says you're training too much, they might be saying you're neglecting other responsbilities. If your friend/romantic partner/spouse says you're training too much, they might be saying you're not spending enough time with them, or energy on them. And so forth.

In general, I'd say "training too much" is happening when you're spending so much time exercising that it interferes with good overall life balance, i.e., enough time and energy for your job, family, social life, chores, and anything else non-exercise that's an important part of your life.

Neither overtraining nor training too much is going to stall fat loss. High stress (from either one) can lead to higher or more unpredictable water retention, which can affect the scale (mask fat loss, for example, or even look like fat gain).

If the only symptom is that your weight loss has stalled, and the water weight issue isn't the reason, odds are good that you've simply reached the point where your intake is getting very close to your maintenance calories. That can happen for a variety of reasons, from fatigue (that causes lowered activity so lower calorie expenditure), to inaccurate food logging.

Mike's advice about the last few pounds is pretty much on point: Accuracy, and patience.

On the exercise front, if your life balance isn't where it should be, you're training too much. If you're training only to lose weight, and can't see yourself doing this level of training for the foreseeable rest of your life, then IMO you're also training too much. Weight loss - especially when close to goal - is mostly weight maintenance practice. If you want to stay at a healthy weight permanently, start now to dial in a way of doing that that you can happily continue forever.

Best wishes!

fancyface1955 wrote: »

MikePfirrman wrote: »

I think weight and overtraining are separate issues. There's been some great threads on the signs of overtraining. The most two important signs are do you dread working out? Also, is your resting HR (when you first wake up) elevated. If so to one or both, back off for a few days and then start back up. Overall, you're not doing too, too much (seems like a good routine). HIIT 3X per week, if really driving your HR up to 90% max, is a lot. If you're not sure it's 90% of max, it's likely not real HIIT.

Eating too little is a fallacy. Seems like you're alluding to "starvation mode" which isn't a real thing.

The last five pounds take accuracy in everything you put in your mouth, no cheat days and really being honest with food measurements. How much is the last five pounds worth? Is it an arbitrary stretch number that's just important to you? Is it realistic?

Thank you for this. Ive heard so much about "Starvation mode" and unless i become like tom hanks in castaway- i can't see that happening. During Lent I was clean eating with just veges and legumes. I was only getting in about 700 calories a day. everyone told me thats not healthy and told me more about starvation mode and killing my metabolism. im sure it wasn't the right way to lose weight, but i felt good. And yes the last 5 pounds are worth it. You don't run a marathon and stop before the finish line. It does sound silly, but its just an old personal goal. It is realistic and isnt going to put me in an unhealthy BMR. Im just wondering if my body just doesn't want to lose any more. But thank you for your imput. :-)

I think you've got two separate things to consider: First is the stalled weight loss. How long has it been since you've lost weight?

The second thing to consider is whether or not it's good for you to work out this much and eat so little. 700 calories a day isn't safe. If continued long enough, it will result in harm. Eating 1,200 a day while being very active will also result in harm. And eating just vegetables and legumes -- even at a reasonable calorie level -- is unlikely to result in you getting enough fat, which will also be harmful. Intense activity is literally tearing up parts of yourself and then rebuilding them. You need materials to rebuild -- that's food.

There's nothing inherently wrong with working out six days a week. I exercise just about every day myself. But I'm also taking that exercise into account when I'm deciding how much to eat. That's what people who are serious about fitness and manage to make it a long term thing do - people who push too hard and don't feed themselves wind up getting exhausted or injured and they wind up being people who used to exercise.

The thing to know is that pushing yourself hard and eating too little can *feel* really good in the short term. I've felt amazing doing it, right up to the point where you crash and burn. That temporary sensation of feeling good can trick us into thinking we're actually doing something healthy for ourselves. If your goal is to lose five more pounds, you don't just want to hit it and then bounce back, right? You want this to be something you achieve and manage to maintain.

fancyface1955 wrote: »

My weight has been up and down since March. I clean eat all week and as soon as i eat a cheat meal on Sunday it seems my hard work goes out the window. I like the clean eating, but i dont want to continue this way all the time. I want to be able to eat the things i enjoy and not feel guilty over it. Years ago i did Jenny Craig and was told that 1200 calories was a safe goal to lose weight and it worked. So i still use that as a guide and logging my food here on MFP helps a lot too. I know that for the amount of exercise im doing i should be eating more- especially with weight lifting. But im afraid to eat more and gain all my weight back. Even though i know what im eating is healthy, i continue to gain. I know its not just muscle because my pants don't fit. if im not hungry, i don't eat.
I have a friend who is a serious lifter and he eats over 2000 calories a day! that blows my mind and would never eat all that. Im never that hungry. Im trying out different meal plans to see what might work for me. I know the 700 calories isn't the way to go and no i don't want to lose just to gain it back again. I know i need to come to terms with some things and not be afraid to eat. Now i'm focusing on get in 3 meals with 3 snacks in between. Maybe you can share a meal plan/strategy that might help. Thank you :-)

2000 calories is actually a paltry amount if he's a serious lifter. I'm 45 yoa, 5'9, female, and my maintenance calories are ~2400 calories per day.

If you are eating 700 calories per day (or even 1200) with that much exercise, your body cannot sustain that for long. You're going to have some serious health repercussions, hair loss, brittle nails, even heart failure is possible.

You say you gain as soon as you have a cheat meal. That's water weight, not fat gain. Read this article...

http://physiqonomics.com/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-weight-and-fluctuations

My suggestion - use a food scale. Weigh and log everything that passes your lips (including those cheat meals). Make sure you are eating AT LEAST 1200 calories, PLUS exercise calories.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10634517/you-dont-use-a-food-scale/p1

fancyface1955 wrote: »

I think you've got two separate things to consider: First is the stalled weight loss. How long has it been since you've lost weight?

The second thing to consider is whether or not it's good for you to work out this much and eat so little. 700 calories a day isn't safe. If continued long enough, it will result in harm. Eating 1,200 a day while being very active will also result in harm. And eating just vegetables and legumes -- even at a reasonable calorie level -- is unlikely to result in you getting enough fat, which will also be harmful. Intense activity is literally tearing up parts of yourself and then rebuilding them. You need materials to rebuild -- that's food.

There's nothing inherently wrong with working out six days a week. I exercise just about every day myself. But I'm also taking that exercise into account when I'm deciding how much to eat. That's what people who are serious about fitness and manage to make it a long term thing do - people who push too hard and don't feed themselves wind up getting exhausted or injured and they wind up being people who used to exercise.

The thing to know is that pushing yourself hard and eating too little can *feel* really good in the short term. I've felt amazing doing it, right up to the point where you crash and burn. That temporary sensation of feeling good can trick us into thinking we're actually doing something healthy for ourselves. If your goal is to lose five more pounds, you don't just want to hit it and then bounce back, right? You want this to be something you achieve and manage to maintain.

My weight has been up and down since March. I clean eat all week and as soon as i eat a cheat meal on Sunday it seems my hard work goes out the window. I like the clean eating, but i dont want to continue this way all the time. I want to be able to eat the things i enjoy and not feel guilty over it. Years ago i did Jenny Craig and was told that 1200 calories was a safe goal to lose weight and it worked. So i still use that as a guide and logging my food here on MFP helps a lot too. I know that for the amount of exercise im doing i should be eating more- especially with weight lifting. But im afraid to eat more and gain all my weight back. Even though i know what im eating is healthy, i continue to gain. I know its not just muscle because my pants don't fit. if im not hungry, i don't eat.
I have a friend who is a serious lifter and he eats over 2000 calories a day! that blows my mind and would never eat all that. Im never that hungry. Im trying out different meal plans to see what might work for me. I know the 700 calories isn't the way to go and no i don't want to lose just to gain it back again. I know i need to come to terms with some things and not be afraid to eat. Now i'm focusing on get in 3 meals with 3 snacks in between. Maybe you can share a meal plan/strategy that might help. Thank you :-)

To the first bolded:

Aha: There's an insight on what's going on with you. There are three potential problems, and some people here will prioritize one higher, some will put another higher, but I think they're all true.

1. You're dramatically overreacting to water weight gain from your Sundays.
2. You've fallen into the "unclean/clean" foods trap, a trap that leads to unsustainability and failure.
3. Are you logging your Sunday eating, and still at or under calorie goal?

When you eat differently from usual, especially if you eat more sodium & carbs than normal, you're going to see a multi-pound scale jump. The overwhelming majority of it is not fat, it's water weight. (This is how a normal healthy body behaves; don't try to counter it.) If you haven't, please read this:

https://physiqonomics.com/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-weight-and-fluctuations

Track your calories on those days, even if you have to estimate. Don't panic and think your "hard work goes out the window". It doesn't. The scale gain is not primarily fat, so there's no reason to worry about it. It will go away. (This is one reason I like daily weighing: One can come to understand these fluctuations, and calm TH down.)

I strongly recommend that to lose weight, you eat (and exercise) in a way that you can live with forever, the only difference being a sensibly moderate calorie deficit. Weight loss is maintenance practice. Good nutrition is important, but you can fit in your favorite foods (whatever they are) in reasonable portions and proportions. It's about balance, not about black and white ("clean/unclean") eating.

You could consider this weight management approach:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10636388/free-customized-personal-weight-loss-eating-plan-not-spam-or-mlm/p1

It won't tell you specifically what to eat, because that really matters little. It will help you work out how to manage your weight and nutrition while eating foods you enjoy and that are practical for you.

I don't know whether your Sundays are what some people call "cheat days" (IMO cheat days are mythical, kind of like Santa Claus - a nice thought, but not reality-based. I'm not saying to never eat so-called junk foods, treats, alcohol, or whatever - I'm saying that they count, because our bodies count everything . . . but we can figure out how to manage treats and over-goal days if we track them and actually try to figure it out. Uncounted days can definitely wipe out a week's deficit.)

To the second bolded:

I hate to break it to you, but many, many women can eat 2000 calories daily, and more. Heck, I can eat 2000+ calories and maintain (at 5'5", 129 pounds this morning, female and 64 years old), and that's before counting exercise, which I also eat. And I mostly don't even lift!). While I'm mysteriously a good li'l ol' calorie burner for some reason, women eating this much, even not-so-big women eating this much, is not some kind of rainbow unicorn thing. I think you've fallen into the "1200 calorie diet" myth. You might also benefit from reading this:

https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/1200-calorie-diet/

Please, please pay attention to advice people have given above. Many of them are people who have been long-term successful at weight loss, diet, health, and fitness. They know what they're talking about.

You are undereating (if tracking accurately), and you are believing a lot of very, very common but very, very inaccurate myths about dieting, exercise and health. Follow the science, not the nonsense. The myths tend keep people (maybe especially women) trapped in an absurd cycle of extreme yo-yo dieting and subsequent regain, a posture that makes us a great target for marketing fitness/health/diet products, but that doesn't enhance our lives. You don't have to do that. You can do better.

At age 64, I have same-age friends who got caught in that whirlpool decades back, and it usually leads to a bad place, in the long run. (Hint: That place is not "healthy, fit and active" in later age.)

Ignore the pop-culture diet/fitness crap, and learn about the real deal.

Best wishes!