Can you lose fat and gain muscle at the same time?
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threeyears2024
Posts: 52 Member
If hypothetically my maintenance is 1350 calories and I want to lose 11 lbs, I can not eat 850 calories to make a 500 calorie deficit, not even 1100 calories to make 250 calories deficit. I can make around 150 calories deficit to and eat 1200 and aim to lose the 11 lbs in about 9 months. And if I follow the reddit boyd weight routine this 9 months, can I build muscle even with the calorie deficit? Is there anything I have to do with macros? Or I can stick to MFP macros of 150g carb, 40g fat and 60g protein.
I am a very short sedentary woman. Aiming to lose the last 10-12 pound and get to 100 pound mark. I barely take 5000 non intentional steps, I live in a 550 sq ft apartment in Toronto.
Edit : I know a few things about progressive overload (too much fitness youtube scouring these days), and since I am quite weak, the body weight exercises will be a progressive overload for me with progressions. Another issue, that workout is 3 times a week, will take around 45 minutes. So those 3 days, should I eat back the exercise calories. It won't be much I assume. Something ranging from 50-100 calories given it takes 11 minutes for me to jump rope 1000 jumps with 10-20 second rest in between each 100 jumps and it burns somewhere around 40-50 calories for me.
I am a very short sedentary woman. Aiming to lose the last 10-12 pound and get to 100 pound mark. I barely take 5000 non intentional steps, I live in a 550 sq ft apartment in Toronto.
Edit : I know a few things about progressive overload (too much fitness youtube scouring these days), and since I am quite weak, the body weight exercises will be a progressive overload for me with progressions. Another issue, that workout is 3 times a week, will take around 45 minutes. So those 3 days, should I eat back the exercise calories. It won't be much I assume. Something ranging from 50-100 calories given it takes 11 minutes for me to jump rope 1000 jumps with 10-20 second rest in between each 100 jumps and it burns somewhere around 40-50 calories for me.
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Replies
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You'll have some muscle growth, yes. You won't get huge, but you should look more "toned" & be stronger.
Higher protein than that is more conducive to muscle growth/maintenance.1 -
In theory yes. If all variables that are needed to achieve MPS are acquired. Without knowing more details on your training history, I'm not confident to say how much success you may or may not have.
It's more common in a untrained individual and/or somebody who is obese. Though it is really nuanced on the individual and everything involved e.g.,training, nutrition,etc...2 -
Cherimoose wrote: »You'll have some muscle growth, yes. You won't get huge, but you should look more "toned" & be stronger.
Higher protein than that is more conducive to muscle growth/maintenance.
Thank you. I am not trying to get huge. Tbh, my goal is to get leaner and get stronger in the process. About protein, 1g per body weight is what everyone preach I believe. If that's the case, it is going to be very difficult to get 111g protein for me on 1200 calories.0 -
In theory yes. If all variables that are needed to achieve MPS are acquired. Without knowing more details on your training history, I'm not confident to say how much success you may or may not have.
It's more common in a untrained individual and/or somebody who is obese. Though it is really nuanced on the individual and everything involved e.g.,training, nutrition,etc...
I am an untrained individual. Can hardly do a push up, my dips are wanky, bunch of baby dips, can't even jump for the negative pull ups. Here is the workout I am doing, https://youtube.com/watch?v=VpobvFPR6hQ
I tracked my food for a few days and I can have around 60-75g protein without trying but have to cut down on milk rusk, coffee with milk and mangoes if I have to make it 111g of protein in 1200 calorie budget.
I am 4'11'', 111 lbs. My lower body has most of the weight with huge quads. My theory is that if I train and simultaneously be in calorie deficit, shouldn't whatever muscle I have pop from underneath the fat? My focus is obviously building strength but also getting leaner and having a boulder shoulder and back, upperbody in general.
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You can change the macros a bit to increase your % of protein for muscle building. You can also eat back no more than half of what you burned from exercise. That way you won't be over your daily goal even if you overestimate your calorie burn or underestimate your intake by a little. It is hard being on 1200/day. I am also short and I'm older, so my basal rate is slower than the 20-40 year olds, so I can relate to your issues! Best of luck!2
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Yes, as mentioned i would consider altering macros to increase protein content. You wont get very big, but yes there will be chnages in toning and strength.1
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When i go to the gym i always put on weight takes me a few weeks for weight reduction, started riding my bike every other day doing about 6-7 miles and my weight is not moving down yet but am older now and will see if i can make the needle drop...lol0
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threeyears2024 wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »You'll have some muscle growth, yes. You won't get huge, but you should look more "toned" & be stronger.
Higher protein than that is more conducive to muscle growth/maintenance.
Thank you. I am not trying to get huge. Tbh, my goal is to get leaner and get stronger in the process. About protein, 1g per body weight is what everyone preach I believe. If that's the case, it is going to be very difficult to get 111g protein for me on 1200 calories.
It may be minimally adequate, especially with high-quality protein, to get 0.6-0.8g per pound of goal bodyweight, or 0.8-1g per pound of lean body mass (which is roughly equivalent for most people).
For sure, you can get stronger, because initial strength gains normally come faster than muscle mass gains (via neuromuscular adaptation, basically recruiting/using your current muscle fibers more efficiently/effectively). So, the least that could happen is strength gain - a fine thing for its own sake, and you might get some mass gain given a progressive routine, the small deficit, and adequate protein. Seems worthwhile either way?3 -
threeyears2024 wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »You'll have some muscle growth, yes. You won't get huge, but you should look more "toned" & be stronger.
Higher protein than that is more conducive to muscle growth/maintenance.
Thank you. I am not trying to get huge. Tbh, my goal is to get leaner and get stronger in the process. About protein, 1g per body weight is what everyone preach I believe. If that's the case, it is going to be very difficult to get 111g protein for me on 1200 calories.
It may be minimally adequate, especially with high-quality protein, to get 0.6-0.8g per pound of goal bodyweight, or 0.8-1g per pound of lean body mass (which is roughly equivalent for most people).
For sure, you can get stronger, because initial strength gains normally come faster than muscle mass gains (via neuromuscular adaptation, basically recruiting/using your current muscle fibers more efficiently/effectively). So, the least that could happen is strength gain - a fine thing for its own sake, and you might get some mass gain given a progressive routine, the small deficit, and adequate protein. Seems worthwhile either way?
My goal weight is 95 -100 pounds. And according to a few online body fat calculator, my lean body mass is 80.6 pounds, making my fat mass 30.3 pounds, 27.4 % body fat. So the protein intake should range between 57-80 g (goal body weight * 0.6-0.8) to 65-81 g (lean body mass * 0.8-1)
So about 81 g protein seems about fine. That is quite achievable and will keep me sane, having the room for more carbs. Yay! Thank you. I was getting really overwhelmed since there's two things I am having difficulty getting rid of my diet. Coffee with milk powder (liquid milk upsets my stomach) and Britannia Milk Rusk. I have been having Coffee with milk powder with 2 milk rusks for breakfast and post dinner snacks for years. And I had to give up one or the other to make the protein 111 g and sacrifice it from carbs.
This is perfect. This is what I am looking for. To get stronger gradually and have a little bit of muscle to pop or dare I say, getting in shape. The ultimate goal is to look like Sarah Connor from Terminator 2 one day. One can only dream, right.2 -
You can change the macros a bit to increase your % of protein for muscle building. You can also eat back no more than half of what you burned from exercise. That way you won't be over your daily goal even if you overestimate your calorie burn or underestimate your intake by a little. It is hard being on 1200/day. I am also short and I'm older, so my basal rate is slower than the 20-40 year olds, so I can relate to your issues! Best of luck!
I am doing surprisingly ok with 1200 given I cook my own meal and limit the take outs. I am not much of a rice or a pasta eater. I always liked veggies and chicken. So that's a plus. I have recently started having protein powder and it is also helping me with my sweet tooth and keeping my protein high. I am going to bank the exercise calories to have them on 7th day for pizza/bread and peanut butter sandwich/Chinese or Indian take outs. This is the only day I am a little concerned about if I don't go overboard. I am also trying to find a unsweetened protein powder for swapping it for milk powder to have it as coffee. I don't like my coffee sweetened unfortunately. I understand that it will take a lot of time to get the desired physique and I am ok with it. Seems like a good way to cultivate life long good habits in this way.1 -
threeyears2024 wrote: »threeyears2024 wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »You'll have some muscle growth, yes. You won't get huge, but you should look more "toned" & be stronger.
Higher protein than that is more conducive to muscle growth/maintenance.
Thank you. I am not trying to get huge. Tbh, my goal is to get leaner and get stronger in the process. About protein, 1g per body weight is what everyone preach I believe. If that's the case, it is going to be very difficult to get 111g protein for me on 1200 calories.
It may be minimally adequate, especially with high-quality protein, to get 0.6-0.8g per pound of goal bodyweight, or 0.8-1g per pound of lean body mass (which is roughly equivalent for most people).
For sure, you can get stronger, because initial strength gains normally come faster than muscle mass gains (via neuromuscular adaptation, basically recruiting/using your current muscle fibers more efficiently/effectively). So, the least that could happen is strength gain - a fine thing for its own sake, and you might get some mass gain given a progressive routine, the small deficit, and adequate protein. Seems worthwhile either way?
My goal weight is 95 -100 pounds. And according to a few online body fat calculator, my lean body mass is 80.6 pounds, making my fat mass 30.3 pounds, 27.4 % body fat. So the protein intake should range between 57-80 g (goal body weight * 0.6-0.8) to 65-81 g (lean body mass * 0.8-1)
So about 81 g protein seems about fine. That is quite achievable and will keep me sane, having the room for more carbs. Yay! Thank you. I was getting really overwhelmed since there's two things I am having difficulty getting rid of my diet. Coffee with milk powder (liquid milk upsets my stomach) and Britannia Milk Rusk. I have been having Coffee with milk powder with 2 milk rusks for breakfast and post dinner snacks for years. And I had to give up one or the other to make the protein 111 g and sacrifice it from carbs.
This is perfect. This is what I am looking for. To get stronger gradually and have a little bit of muscle to pop or dare I say, getting in shape. The ultimate goal is to look like Sarah Connor from Terminator 2 one day. One can only dream, right.
I think that's right, but I want to underscore that the words I used were "minimally adequate", for your goals. I'd still encourage you to think about how you can keep gradually bumping the protein number up a little bit, while still hitting your calorie goal, getting overall well-rounded nutrition, and generally enjoying the totality of your eating style. (I don't ask much, do I?
) Increasing protein grams beyond the 80s can IMO (I'm not a dietitian!) be a positive shift in the odds for your muscle-related goals, even if not obviously essential, if it can be done while keeping your life happy overall, y'know?
If you want to look at some of the research, here's a link from an evidence-based site that's generally regarded as neutral, that summarizes some research, but also provides links to the underlying studies they're relying on, plus a protein needs "calculator" based on their view:
https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/
This next is just my opinion, but: T2's Sarah Connor's look is thin-dominant (i.e., she has little overlying subcutaneous fat hiding the muscles she has), rather than muscle dominant (her muscle mass doesn't seem extremely large in objective terms, to me). I would think that kind of look might be in closer reach (in time/effort, if nothing else) than a more muscle-dominant appearance. (Of course, genetics are a factor, and overall skeletal configuration will have a huge affect on how one actually looks, etc.)
(Nothing in the preceding paragraph should be taken as critical of your appearance goals, nor as my having huge enthusiasm for her look. I think everyone gets to make their own purely aesthetic choices, even if they differ from mine, and I'd like to support them . . . though I will argue with people who I think are too-far deprecating health goals to elevate appearance goals. That's still their choice, but I don't need to like it or support it. I don't think the Sarah Connor appearance is necessarily dramatically unhealthy. It may compromise resilience to major illness a little, but that's going to be very individual in other respects anyway, and I'm not fussing at people with high-normal/low-overweight body fat that may have some health tradeoffs, either.)
Best wishes for much success!2 -
As you lose fat and as some muscle is retained while in a caloric deficit, eventually muscle will be revealed the more your body composition changes.threeyears2024 wrote: »In theory yes. If all variables that are needed to achieve MPS are acquired. Without knowing more details on your training history, I'm not confident to say how much success you may or may not have.
It's more common in a untrained individual and/or somebody who is obese. Though it is really nuanced on the individual and everything involved e.g.,training, nutrition,etc...
I am an untrained individual. Can hardly do a push up, my dips are wanky, bunch of baby dips, can't even jump for the negative pull ups. Here is the workout I am doing, https://youtube.com/watch?v=VpobvFPR6hQ
I tracked my food for a few days and I can have around 60-75g protein without trying but have to cut down on milk rusk, coffee with milk and mangoes if I have to make it 111g of protein in 1200 calorie budget.
I am 4'11'', 111 lbs. My lower body has most of the weight with huge quads. My theory is that if I train and simultaneously be in calorie deficit, shouldn't whatever muscle I have pop from underneath the fat? My focus is obviously building strength but also getting leaner and having a boulder shoulder and back, upperbody in general.[/]
Yeah that workout would be fine for a general fitness day(s), yet there are more efficient and optimal ways to build strength with things commonly found in a apartment/home.
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threeyears2024 wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »You'll have some muscle growth, yes. You won't get huge, but you should look more "toned" & be stronger.
Higher protein than that is more conducive to muscle growth/maintenance.
Thank you. I am not trying to get huge. Tbh, my goal is to get leaner and get stronger in the process. About protein, 1g per body weight is what everyone preach I believe. If that's the case, it is going to be very difficult to get 111g protein for me on 1200 calories.
That would be just over 1/3rd of your calories from protein (1 g protein = 4 cal) it may take a little planning but it's very doable.
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threeyears2024 wrote: »threeyears2024 wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »You'll have some muscle growth, yes. You won't get huge, but you should look more "toned" & be stronger.
Higher protein than that is more conducive to muscle growth/maintenance.
Thank you. I am not trying to get huge. Tbh, my goal is to get leaner and get stronger in the process. About protein, 1g per body weight is what everyone preach I believe. If that's the case, it is going to be very difficult to get 111g protein for me on 1200 calories.
It may be minimally adequate, especially with high-quality protein, to get 0.6-0.8g per pound of goal bodyweight, or 0.8-1g per pound of lean body mass (which is roughly equivalent for most people).
For sure, you can get stronger, because initial strength gains normally come faster than muscle mass gains (via neuromuscular adaptation, basically recruiting/using your current muscle fibers more efficiently/effectively). So, the least that could happen is strength gain - a fine thing for its own sake, and you might get some mass gain given a progressive routine, the small deficit, and adequate protein. Seems worthwhile either way?
My goal weight is 95 -100 pounds. And according to a few online body fat calculator, my lean body mass is 80.6 pounds, making my fat mass 30.3 pounds, 27.4 % body fat. So the protein intake should range between 57-80 g (goal body weight * 0.6-0.8) to 65-81 g (lean body mass * 0.8-1)
So about 81 g protein seems about fine. That is quite achievable and will keep me sane, having the room for more carbs. Yay! Thank you. I was getting really overwhelmed since there's two things I am having difficulty getting rid of my diet. Coffee with milk powder (liquid milk upsets my stomach) and Britannia Milk Rusk. I have been having Coffee with milk powder with 2 milk rusks for breakfast and post dinner snacks for years. And I had to give up one or the other to make the protein 111 g and sacrifice it from carbs.
This is perfect. This is what I am looking for. To get stronger gradually and have a little bit of muscle to pop or dare I say, getting in shape. The ultimate goal is to look like Sarah Connor from Terminator 2 one day. One can only dream, right.
I think that's right, but I want to underscore that the words I used were "minimally adequate", for your goals. I'd still encourage you to think about how you can keep gradually bumping the protein number up a little bit, while still hitting your calorie goal, getting overall well-rounded nutrition, and generally enjoying the totality of your eating style. (I don't ask much, do I? ) Increasing protein grams beyond the 80s can IMO (I'm not a dietitian!) be a positive shift in the odds for your muscle-related goals, even if not obviously essential, if it can be done while keeping your life happy overall, y'know?
If you want to look at some of the research, here's a link from an evidence-based site that's generally regarded as neutral, that summarizes some research, but also provides links to the underlying studies they're relying on, plus a protein needs "calculator" based on their view:
https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/
This next is just my opinion, but: T2's Sarah Connor's look is thin-dominant (i.e., she has little overlying subcutaneous fat hiding the muscles she has), rather than muscle dominant (her muscle mass doesn't seem extremely large in objective terms, to me). I would think that kind of look might be in closer reach (in time/effort, if nothing else) than a more muscle-dominant appearance. (Of course, genetics are a factor, and overall skeletal configuration will have a huge affect on how one actually looks, etc.)
(Nothing in the preceding paragraph should be taken as critical of your appearance goals, nor as my having huge enthusiasm for her look. I think everyone gets to make their own purely aesthetic choices, even if they differ from mine, and I'd like to support them . . . though I will argue with people who I think are too-far deprecating health goals to elevate appearance goals. That's still their choice, but I don't need to like it or support it. I don't think the Sarah Connor appearance is necessarily dramatically unhealthy. It may compromise resilience to major illness a little, but that's going to be very individual in other respects anyway, and I'm not fussing at people with high-normal/low-overweight body fat that may have some health tradeoffs, either.)
Best wishes for much success!
Thank you so much. That was such a detailed answer. I really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you.
I read a few of the research. Thank you. I will try to eat at 1200 calories, gradually upping my protein. I have to make it sustainable to keep at it for a long period of time. I was reading up on sacropenia and I think upping the protein even if I did not want to have muscle growth is a good idea. And about how I want to look is not important to me right now but to get macros, calories and exercises in check. Later in months onward I can always tweak and make changes to manage it to my aesthetic goals if I have a good grasp in those aspects I suppose.2 -
As my husband likes to remind me, no one gets “huge” without an immense amount of time and effort to get huge. My point is, that isn’t something you have to worry about, like EVER.1
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threeyears2024 wrote: »threeyears2024 wrote: »threeyears2024 wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »You'll have some muscle growth, yes. You won't get huge, but you should look more "toned" & be stronger.
Higher protein than that is more conducive to muscle growth/maintenance.
Thank you. I am not trying to get huge. Tbh, my goal is to get leaner and get stronger in the process. About protein, 1g per body weight is what everyone preach I believe. If that's the case, it is going to be very difficult to get 111g protein for me on 1200 calories.
It may be minimally adequate, especially with high-quality protein, to get 0.6-0.8g per pound of goal bodyweight, or 0.8-1g per pound of lean body mass (which is roughly equivalent for most people).
For sure, you can get stronger, because initial strength gains normally come faster than muscle mass gains (via neuromuscular adaptation, basically recruiting/using your current muscle fibers more efficiently/effectively). So, the least that could happen is strength gain - a fine thing for its own sake, and you might get some mass gain given a progressive routine, the small deficit, and adequate protein. Seems worthwhile either way?
My goal weight is 95 -100 pounds. And according to a few online body fat calculator, my lean body mass is 80.6 pounds, making my fat mass 30.3 pounds, 27.4 % body fat. So the protein intake should range between 57-80 g (goal body weight * 0.6-0.8) to 65-81 g (lean body mass * 0.8-1)
So about 81 g protein seems about fine. That is quite achievable and will keep me sane, having the room for more carbs. Yay! Thank you. I was getting really overwhelmed since there's two things I am having difficulty getting rid of my diet. Coffee with milk powder (liquid milk upsets my stomach) and Britannia Milk Rusk. I have been having Coffee with milk powder with 2 milk rusks for breakfast and post dinner snacks for years. And I had to give up one or the other to make the protein 111 g and sacrifice it from carbs.
This is perfect. This is what I am looking for. To get stronger gradually and have a little bit of muscle to pop or dare I say, getting in shape. The ultimate goal is to look like Sarah Connor from Terminator 2 one day. One can only dream, right.
I think that's right, but I want to underscore that the words I used were "minimally adequate", for your goals. I'd still encourage you to think about how you can keep gradually bumping the protein number up a little bit, while still hitting your calorie goal, getting overall well-rounded nutrition, and generally enjoying the totality of your eating style. (I don't ask much, do I? ) Increasing protein grams beyond the 80s can IMO (I'm not a dietitian!) be a positive shift in the odds for your muscle-related goals, even if not obviously essential, if it can be done while keeping your life happy overall, y'know?
If you want to look at some of the research, here's a link from an evidence-based site that's generally regarded as neutral, that summarizes some research, but also provides links to the underlying studies they're relying on, plus a protein needs "calculator" based on their view:
https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/
This next is just my opinion, but: T2's Sarah Connor's look is thin-dominant (i.e., she has little overlying subcutaneous fat hiding the muscles she has), rather than muscle dominant (her muscle mass doesn't seem extremely large in objective terms, to me). I would think that kind of look might be in closer reach (in time/effort, if nothing else) than a more muscle-dominant appearance. (Of course, genetics are a factor, and overall skeletal configuration will have a huge affect on how one actually looks, etc.)
(Nothing in the preceding paragraph should be taken as critical of your appearance goals, nor as my having huge enthusiasm for her look. I think everyone gets to make their own purely aesthetic choices, even if they differ from mine, and I'd like to support them . . . though I will argue with people who I think are too-far deprecating health goals to elevate appearance goals. That's still their choice, but I don't need to like it or support it. I don't think the Sarah Connor appearance is necessarily dramatically unhealthy. It may compromise resilience to major illness a little, but that's going to be very individual in other respects anyway, and I'm not fussing at people with high-normal/low-overweight body fat that may have some health tradeoffs, either.)
Best wishes for much success!
Thank you so much. That was such a detailed answer. I really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you.
I read a few of the research. Thank you. I will try to eat at 1200 calories, gradually upping my protein. I have to make it sustainable to keep at it for a long period of time. I was reading up on sacropenia and I think upping the protein even if I did not want to have muscle growth is a good idea. And about how I want to look is not important to me right now but to get macros, calories and exercises in check. Later in months onward I can always tweak and make changes to manage it to my aesthetic goals if I have a good grasp in those aspects I suppose.
Good plan. And overall (not in just this one post I'm replying to), you sound very sensible and level-headed. Good show!
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