Sanity check on exercise adjustment...
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thelastnightingale
Posts: 725 Member
My activity level is set at not very active and my goal is set as lose 2lb a week, which puts me on a 1,200 calorie allowance. (I suspect in reality, I should be eating less for the maths to work, but MFP rightly caps you at 1,200 calories.)
I've worked out that the activity adjustment my Garmin gives me through MFP is intended to set my net calories as at least 1,200 calories, but otherwise 700 calories below my calorie burn. So, if I burn 1,800 calories, there's no adjustment as 1,800-700 < 1,200, but if I burn 2,000 calories, there's an adjustment of an extra 100 calories as 2,000-1,200>700.
Why 700 calories? I'm a little stumped at what my Garmin is trying to do, and not sure if I should be eating back calories or not - we're not talking work out calories here, just calories from being alive, generally. Sometimes the Garmin suggests I eat extra calories for waddling to the mailbox. Have I perhaps misunderstood the definition of 'not very active' and that's why it's trying to give me extra calories for doing very little?
(For what it's worth, my BMR is around 1,500 calories.)
My food intake is very accurate, and although I know people generally advise to take calorie burns from fitness trackers with a grain of salt, from experience, I think it looks about right. So I guess the question is really around what my net deficit should really be - 700 calories from calories out just seems very arbitrary.
Any thoughts from people wiser than me (so, everyone else) very much welcome!
I've worked out that the activity adjustment my Garmin gives me through MFP is intended to set my net calories as at least 1,200 calories, but otherwise 700 calories below my calorie burn. So, if I burn 1,800 calories, there's no adjustment as 1,800-700 < 1,200, but if I burn 2,000 calories, there's an adjustment of an extra 100 calories as 2,000-1,200>700.
Why 700 calories? I'm a little stumped at what my Garmin is trying to do, and not sure if I should be eating back calories or not - we're not talking work out calories here, just calories from being alive, generally. Sometimes the Garmin suggests I eat extra calories for waddling to the mailbox. Have I perhaps misunderstood the definition of 'not very active' and that's why it's trying to give me extra calories for doing very little?
(For what it's worth, my BMR is around 1,500 calories.)
My food intake is very accurate, and although I know people generally advise to take calorie burns from fitness trackers with a grain of salt, from experience, I think it looks about right. So I guess the question is really around what my net deficit should really be - 700 calories from calories out just seems very arbitrary.
Any thoughts from people wiser than me (so, everyone else) very much welcome!
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Replies
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I can only speak to how Fitbit works, but I'm guessing it is similar to the Garmin-MFP 'math'.
MFP estimates what it thinks you will burn in a day based on your stats (to determine your BMR) and your stated activity level.
Your tracker also estimates your total daily burn, based on your BMR and your actual movement. It transmits this info to MFP.
If your tracker shows you are burning more (than MFP expected) you earn extra calories. OTherwise, you do not.
So if your BMR is 1500 and activity level is not very active, it sounds like MFP expects you to burn 1900 total in a day. Which would make sense, 1500 for BMR and an additional 400 for regular daily activity to move thru your day.
So if Garmin says you burned 1800, then no adjustment **unless you enable negative adjustments if that is an option** because MFP expected you to burn 1900 and you did not.
If Garmin says you burned 2000, you burned more than MFP expected so you get a 100 cal adjustment.
You can test this by setting MFP to 'maintain' and see what it lists for a calorie goal. This is what would be reasonable to expect to burn based on your current stats & activity level. And if it is 1900, then you are also correct that losing 2 pounds per week is not realistic for you. 1 pound per week would put you at 1400 in this scenario.
The 700 is the deficit you have 'built in' to your current MFP plan, based on projected daily burn and 1200 eating goal.3 -
To be honest I’m not 100% sure what you’re talking about but I also have a Garmin and I find it’s daily calorie burn estimate to be a bit high. None of the fitness watches are really reliable for estimating your calories from just living. I only use my Garmin to track my running and calorie burn from running.1
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If you look at your calories on the garmin site it should have it broken into RMR and total calories. (I think the BMR you listed is from a calculator?). I think what is happening is Garmin has your RMR at ~1900 and thinks you want a 700 calorie deficit since MFP gave you a 1200 calorie goal.1
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@Shortgirlrunning I primarily use my Garmin to track my runs, but I also enable step counting on it, so it tracks my calorie burn all day long, rather than just when I'm running.
@nanamerriman2020 Maintain is apparently around 1,900 calories. If I set at lose 2lb, it caps weekly weight loss at 1.4lb... and 4,900 calories over 1.4 is 3,500. Right, I've got it. MFP is trying to set my net deficit at a cap of 1.4lb based on the assumption that 1lb = 3,500 calories.
I'm not massively convinced that 1lb = 3,500 calories, but at least I understand what the apps are trying to do now! Thank you!
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Though your tracker may send over a daily calorie burn (that's all it does, MFP does the rest) higher than MFP original estimated that would allow for a 1000 cal deficit and end at/above 1200 (you have over 50 lbs to lose for 1000 to be reasonable?) - that's not how MFP does the math.
It just adds exercise and adjustments to the already established base eating calories of 1200.
So just as Nana gave for your figures.
You can also see what MFP estimates for your daily burn in the adjustment that shows up.
Click on it for more details and it shows on 2nd main line what MFP already was accounting for the day.
If it knows about a workout it shows what those calories are in small text underneath, just subtract from that total to get back to base daily burn it started with.3 -
Gosh that's a steep weight loss goal. What's your hurry?3
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@heybales I started with over 50lb to lose, but I now have about 35lb to go. Er, you know, I've had this app for years and used various fitness trackers with it, but I never knew if I just tapped on the adjustment I would get more details! Jeez. That's mildly embarrassing...
Thanks so much for that tip, it shows my projected calorie burn for the day (based on estimated calories burned so far), my maintenance calories and then the difference, and that's my calorie adjustment.
Maintenance = 1,900 calories
Calorie adjustment = anything over maintenance, i.e. projected calories less maintenance calories
Got it!
@Carp614 It's not really 2lb, I just set it at the maximum and let it cap itself, so as explained, it's really set to lose 1.4lb/week. The hurry is to get my BMI down, as I want to reduce my risk factors for Covid-19 before I'm forced back into commuting at rush hour. 1 -
OP, keep in mind that an aggressive deficit is also a physical stressor, and can potentially affect one's health/robustness, including disease resistance. At 35 pounds to go, is your health risk from excess bodyweight greater, or your risk from speedy weightloss? I don't know the answer, as it's pretty individual, but it's something to think about in the scenario you paint. If your current bodyweight is still such that 1.4lbs is well less than 1% of current bodyweight, it may still be fine - didn't see where you mentioned current weight or goal.Shortgirlrunning wrote: »To be honest I’m not 100% sure what you’re talking about but I also have a Garmin and I find it’s daily calorie burn estimate to be a bit high. None of the fitness watches are really reliable for estimating your calories from just living. I only use my Garmin to track my running and calorie burn from running.
And I find my Garmin's all-day estimate to be crazy low. So, it could go either way, or be pretty darned close, depending on how statistically average a person happens to be.
Best route for others IMO: Compare calorie intake, loss rate, and device estimates for a multi-week period, figure out how close it is for that individual. Law of (semi-)large numbers will leave many people in an OK spot, or at least a spot where the data is useful.3 -
@AnnPT77 I alway respect your opinion, and I know sometimes we're all too close to our own detail to see the bigger picture, so here's the extra info you asked for...
SW: 202.7
CW: 180.6
GW: 145.3
So, still comfortably under 1% with a 1.4lb weekly weight loss goal, and indeed, 1.4lb should remain a reasonable target for most of the remaining journey.
Now, I don't think it's particularly aggressive given how heavy I am (feel free to chip in now you have the numbers!), but I'm not really sure how to tell. The trouble is, I started losing weight about a month into lockdown, so I can't separate out how my body might or might be reacting to the weight loss, and how it's reacting to being quarantined. I know I don't feel totally right, but I think that's all lockdown related. I've been treating a vitamin D deficiency (under medical supervision) and I have a lot of personal stress, so all of that is bound to make me feel tired and to have sleeping difficulties.
Am I better off getting that BMI down faster, or losing the weight slower? I don't know either. I've been debating that too. The weight fell off stupidly quickly in the first few weeks (ah, water weight) but has slowed down to an average of between 1lb and 2lb, so it doesn't seem alarming or aggressive to me.
I'm about half a stone off from being 'just overweight' which will be 174.5 lb. I was toying with continuing as I am to hit that target, and then experimenting with increasing my calorie allowance slightly at that point?
Being overweight is clearly not brilliant, but I thought if I get out of the obese category, I can then perhaps look at slowing down slightly. Maybe that's the compromise.
On another note, my skin is the healthiest it's ever been, so I don't feel like I have any warning signs. The only possible warning sign I can identify is the lethargy, but I strongly suspect it's Covid related rather than fuel related.1 -
thelastnightingale wrote: »@AnnPT77 I alway respect your opinion, and I know sometimes we're all too close to our own detail to see the bigger picture, so here's the extra info you asked for...
SW: 202.7
CW: 180.6
GW: 145.3
So, still comfortably under 1% with a 1.4lb weekly weight loss goal, and indeed, 1.4lb should remain a reasonable target for most of the remaining journey.
Now, I don't think it's particularly aggressive given how heavy I am (feel free to chip in now you have the numbers!), but I'm not really sure how to tell. The trouble is, I started losing weight about a month into lockdown, so I can't separate out how my body might or might be reacting to the weight loss, and how it's reacting to being quarantined. I know I don't feel totally right, but I think that's all lockdown related. I've been treating a vitamin D deficiency (under medical supervision) and I have a lot of personal stress, so all of that is bound to make me feel tired and to have sleeping difficulties.
Am I better off getting that BMI down faster, or losing the weight slower? I don't know either. I've been debating that too. The weight fell off stupidly quickly in the first few weeks (ah, water weight) but has slowed down to an average of between 1lb and 2lb, so it doesn't seem alarming or aggressive to me.
I'm about half a stone off from being 'just overweight' which will be 174.5 lb. I was toying with continuing as I am to hit that target, and then experimenting with increasing my calorie allowance slightly at that point?
Being overweight is clearly not brilliant, but I thought if I get out of the obese category, I can then perhaps look at slowing down slightly. Maybe that's the compromise.
On another note, my skin is the healthiest it's ever been, so I don't feel like I have any warning signs. The only possible warning sign I can identify is the lethargy, but I strongly suspect it's Covid related rather than fuel related.
It sounds like you're being self-aware and conscientious about this, so trusting yourself is probably fine. If you want a better reading on it, asking your doctor would be a better route IMO than listening to some random idiot like me on the internet.
The cumulative stress aspect (calorie deficit + pandemic worries + other life stress) is something to keep an eye on. Are there other stress management or stress reduction techniques that would fit into your routine, without making things more stressful? (What works varies by person, but some common things might be extra sleep, outdoor/nature time, meditation, religious practice, yoga or stretching, aromatherapy bubble bath, enjoyable music, affirmations, . . . .).
At about your current size, I didn't have any real problems with a similar weight loss rate, but that was in context of a relatively low stress life, at that point. And stress reaction is so individual, anyway! (Sorry not to be more helpful.)
I guess I'd say just keep self-monitoring, touch base with your doc (you mention being under supervision for the D deficiency, so I'm thinking you're in contact with her/him), keep a special eye on that lethargy aspect (could be D-related, or stress, but can also be a warning sign IME). If I were you, I'd be thinking in terms of cutting back to a pound a week around 20-25 pounds above goal, 0.5 pounds a week maybe 10ish pounds above goal, just to be conservative. I'm a pretty strong believer in slowing as one gets lighter, both from a stress/health-risk standpoint, and to start building/solidifying weight-maintenance habits gradually.
Another thing you could consider at some point, after you've been at it for a bit, if you start to feel more stress or see more water-retention pseudo-plateaus, would be a couple of weeks at maintenance calories ("diet break" - more about that here: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1).
Just keep your focus on progress with sustainability, continue your thoughful approach, and I think you'll be fine.
All the best!
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Thanks, @AnnPT77. I'm a big believer that if enough random idiots start shouting the same thing at you, you should take a look at yourself and consider whether they might be correct... so it's really encouraging to hear that you're not concerned about the rate of loss.
I think upping my calorie intake at the points you suggested sounds reasonable, and I will definitely take that advice on board once I get there. (Note, once I get there, not if I'll get there! )
The stress thing is difficult. There are lots of things worrying me that are should worry me and that are completely outside of my control, and I know from experience I tend to be fine until I'm suddenly really not fine. I'm trying to be as self-aware as possible of that, but it is hard to monitor. I'm talking to some of my oldest friends on a regular basis (i.e. people who really know me and wouldn't be afraid to tell me difficult things if it was in my best interests), so if I start acting out of character, I know they'll catch me.
The diet break isn't something I'm keen on which, which is probably precisely why I should consider it later down the line. (I'm acutely aware we're all treading a fine line between committed and eating disorder and I'm actively working to stay on the right side of that line.) Feeling able to take a diet break would probably be a good sanity check as to whether I'm still on the right side.
Thanks as always! 3 -
Hi Buddy!! I am totally confused since I've synced my FitBit to MFP as well. I trully suspect it is really over-estimating my daily calorie burn. Do I really burn 2500 cal a day just by getting in 10K steps? MFP "maintain" has me at 2160 per day. Really it's just an intellectual exercise for me now. I am likely going to unsync and manually add stationary bike exercises from now on. Best wishes on finding that happy place on those exercise calories!1
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Hi Buddy!! I am totally confused since I've synced my FitBit to MFP as well. I trully suspect it is really over-estimating my daily calorie burn. Do I really burn 2500 cal a day just by getting in 10K steps? MFP "maintain" has me at 2160 per day. Really it's just an intellectual exercise for me now. I am likely going to unsync and manually add stationary bike exercises from now on. Best wishes on finding that happy place on those exercise calories!
That is easily true.
If 2160 is Sedentary - 10K steps is waaayyyyy above sedentary of under 4K steps.
So to only get 340 extra calories is nothing.5 -
@MommaGemz I reckon that's totally possible. We're not too dissimilar in weight, and back when I was doing 10,000 steps a day and was a little heavier, I was burning around 2,300 to 2,400 a day.
I personally track all of the calories in and out, regardless of whether I believe them (I like accumulating data!), but only eat back so-called exercise calories for 'no exercise' if I feel like I've actually worked out and need to refuel. In your case, I'd think twice about the extra calories from walking, but I'd happily eat back the bike calories as that's more intensive and you must feel tired afterwards.
I collect the data, but I try to listen to my body as much as possible. I've really ignored the poor thing over the years, but I'm trying very hard to listen to when it's hungry, tired or thirsty and to respond accordingly.1 -
Hi Buddy!! I am totally confused since I've synced my FitBit to MFP as well. I trully suspect it is really over-estimating my daily calorie burn. Do I really burn 2500 cal a day just by getting in 10K steps? MFP "maintain" has me at 2160 per day. Really it's just an intellectual exercise for me now. I am likely going to unsync and manually add stationary bike exercises from now on. Best wishes on finding that happy place on those exercise calories!
2,500 sounds really plausible in that situation.
MFP is estimating your calorie burn based on the information you give it. Most of us are just roughly estimating our activity level, so it's not at all uncommon for people to find they're burning more calories than they initially assumed.4 -
Hi Buddy!! I am totally confused since I've synced my FitBit to MFP as well. I trully suspect it is really over-estimating my daily calorie burn. Do I really burn 2500 cal a day just by getting in 10K steps? MFP "maintain" has me at 2160 per day. Really it's just an intellectual exercise for me now. I am likely going to unsync and manually add stationary bike exercises from now on. Best wishes on finding that happy place on those exercise calories!
Sure, 2500 to maintain can be true. I maintain around 2100 (plus exercise, so more like 2300 or so), with only around 4000 steps average most days recently, and I'm older, average height, and at a healthy weight (low-mid normal BMI range). I've been tracking for 5 years as of this coming Saturday, maintaining for 4+, so I feel like I have my numbers pretty well dialed in.
The idea that women universally need to eat tiny numbers of calories is a myth. Some do need to eat small amounts (usually, they're quite petite, older, less active, less muscular, etc., though there are some exceptions on either side - women of that description who require higher calories, women not of that description who do).
When MFP "maintain" has you at 2160, what activity level setting are you using, at what current height/weight? Keep in mind that in MFP-world, your maintenance calories would include more calories for any activity above what's built into that setting.
Sure, fitness tracker devices can overestimate needs, by they can also underestimate needs (mine does, for me, quite dramatically, despite being a brand/model that others find to estimate pretty accurate for them). Track calorie intake and scale weight for a period of 4-6 weeks, and that'll give you a good idea of reality. Calories eaten + fat calories lost in bodyweight = TDEE, at roughly 3500 calories per pound of weight loss, when you average over a period of weeks to adjust for random fluctuation.2 -
Hi Buddy!! I am totally confused since I've synced my FitBit to MFP as well. I trully suspect it is really over-estimating my daily calorie burn. Do I really burn 2500 cal a day just by getting in 10K steps? MFP "maintain" has me at 2160 per day. Really it's just an intellectual exercise for me now. I am likely going to unsync and manually add stationary bike exercises from now on. Best wishes on finding that happy place on those exercise calories!
That is easily true.
If 2160 is Sedentary - 10K steps is waaayyyyy above sedentary of under 4K steps.
So to only get 340 extra calories is nothing.
2160 "maintain" is at Lightly Active. (5' 8" and 187 lbs) I generally just walk about the house all day and manage to get in 10K steps. Now, times when I do intentional cardio the calorie burn does increase to about 26-2800. I was eating back about 100 cal more to compensate based on the Fitness adjustment everyday, but my loss slowed to a halt (from my lose 1.5 lbs a week setting and I was loosing at that rate). I don't feel like, as a woman, I should be eating super low calorie, but I also don't feel like moving around the house during the day actually burns 2500 calories??
I don't mean to hijack @thelastnightingale 's thread, just wanted to add that whenever I sync MFP and FitBit - it seems to just confuse me enough that it trips up my progress and I empathize with how she's feeling.
Especially what she says in her initial post, "Sometimes the Garmin suggests I eat extra calories for waddling to the mailbox." I get that feeling too.
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Hi Buddy!! I am totally confused since I've synced my FitBit to MFP as well. I trully suspect it is really over-estimating my daily calorie burn. Do I really burn 2500 cal a day just by getting in 10K steps? MFP "maintain" has me at 2160 per day. Really it's just an intellectual exercise for me now. I am likely going to unsync and manually add stationary bike exercises from now on. Best wishes on finding that happy place on those exercise calories!
That is easily true.
If 2160 is Sedentary - 10K steps is waaayyyyy above sedentary of under 4K steps.
So to only get 340 extra calories is nothing.
2160 "maintain" is at Lightly Active. (5' 8" and 187 lbs) I generally just walk about the house all day and manage to get in 10K steps. Now, times when I do intentional cardio the calorie burn does increase to about 26-2800. I was eating back about 100 cal more to compensate based on the Fitness adjustment everyday, but my loss slowed to a halt (from my lose 1.5 lbs a week setting and I was loosing at that rate). I don't feel like, as a woman, I should be eating super low calorie, but I also don't feel like moving around the house during the day actually burns 2500 calories??
I don't mean to hijack @thelastnightingale 's thread, just wanted to add that whenever I sync MFP and FitBit - it seems to just confuse me enough that it trips up my progress and I empathize with how she's feeling.
Especially what she says in her initial post, "Sometimes the Garmin suggests I eat extra calories for waddling to the mailbox." I get that feeling too.
To the bolded: Keep in mind that when you increase exercise, *and* when you increase calorie intake, water retention tends to increase, and it can easily do enough of that to mask continuing fat loss on the scale for a period of time (potentially up to a small number of weeks). The water retention itself is not fat, so not really worth worrying about. Wait it out, the fat loss will overtake it eventually.
If you're tracking even remotely accurately, and losing 1.5 pounds a week (750 calorie daily deficit), then eat 100 more calories daily (while adding an estimated twice that in exercise) and see a weight stall, there's no logical explanation of that that involves fat regain, or complete stoppage of fat loss. There are various explanations that involve water weight fluctuations, however.
Good read: https://physiqonomics.com/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-weight-and-fluctuations
If the 10K steps is right, that's several miles.
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If you're tracking even remotely accurately, and losing 1.5 pounds a week (750 calorie daily deficit), then eat 100 more calories daily (while adding an estimated twice that in exercise) and see a weight stall, there's no logical explanation of that that involves fat regain, or complete stoppage of fat loss. There are various explanations that involve water weight fluctuations, however.
Emphasis on the above
Furthermore, 10K steps usually corresponds to MFP active; not lightly active, for most people. 2 -
I don't mean to hijack @thelastnightingale 's thread, just wanted to add that whenever I sync MFP and FitBit - it seems to just confuse me enough that it trips up my progress and I empathize with how she's feeling.
Why not? I hijack your thread all the time.
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