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What are your thoughts on natural bodybuilding?

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  • watts6151watts6151 Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member
    Actually steroids put on muscle and increase strength regardless of any training stimulus, these studies have been around for decades

    edited September 17
  • watts6151watts6151 Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member
    Bill Campbell has been going over the studies again recently

  • yirarayirara Member Posts: 5,556 Member Member Posts: 5,556 Member
    I don't find bodybuilding attractive. Give me a guy with a little belly. I'd not want to spend my time with a guy who things he needs to have big muscles. And likely spends too much time in the gym and counting protein intake. And the farts!
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,872 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,872 MFP Moderator
    It should also be noted that even if you do steroids, maintaining your gains after can become difficult or impossible to maintain. I have heard plenty of testimonials from those on cycles which talk about the disappointment in loss of gains thr longer they are off.

    Ps- moved to the bodybuilding section. While there hasn't been any advocacy of taking steroids, this topic is better suited for that section.
    edited September 19
  • supercpa999supercpa999 Member, Premium Posts: 198 Member Member, Premium Posts: 198 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    It should also be noted that even if you do steroids, maintaining your gains after can become difficult or impossible to maintain. I have heard plenty of testimonials from those on cycles which talk about the disappointment in loss of gains thr longer they are off.

    Ps- moved to the bodybuilding section. While there hasn't been any advocacy of taking steroids, this topic is better suited for that section.

    To the contrary, the whole point of pursuing natural bodybuilding is to not revert to steroids or growth hormone or any other body cocktail.
  • ythannahythannah Member Posts: 3,392 Member Member Posts: 3,392 Member
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?

    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.

    Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.

    It’s a lot less work; so I would also consider it cheating. Steroids also have a lot of potential health side effects, so don’t seem worth the risks associated.

    It's not a lot less work.

    Yes, it IS a lot less work. That’s why some people choose to use steroids as they want the short cut. If you had to do just as much work, no one would spend the money on them or risk their health... 🙄

    No, it's not less work. It enhances the results of people with an existing extraordinary work ethic. I know a lot of guys on stuff that look average because their work ethic is average. No, I'm not natural but it's not uncommon for me to puke mid workout, I've passed out, I've burst blood vessels in my eyes deadlifting and I've been like that since before I went to the dark side. I'll say it again; stick a needle in the butt of a guy that puts in average effort, you won't notice a thing. It's not a shortcut, it's a road to a physical place you can't get to naturally IF YOU WORK EXTREMELY HARD. That's kinda like saying running a marathon is a shortcut to walking a half marathon because you got there quicker. And cheating? What did I win? Who did I screw over, who's the victim? By that logic, makeup is cheating.

    I wouldn't say that makeup is cheating because it's (usually) obvious that it's unnatural and (usually) not pretending to be to be natural. None of us were born with iridescent eyelids and shiny scarlet lips and sparkly cheekbones.

    Breast implants I'd consider as cheating. You're augmenting the natural body with something unnatural to enhance its appearance. (With apologies to anyone who has them. If they were important to you, that's cool.)
  • Mellouk89Mellouk89 Member Posts: 137 Member Member Posts: 137 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    It should also be noted that even if you do steroids, maintaining your gains after can become difficult or impossible to maintain. I have heard plenty of testimonials from those on cycles which talk about the disappointment in loss of gains thr longer they are off.

    Ps- moved to the bodybuilding section. While there hasn't been any advocacy of taking steroids, this topic is better suited for that section.

    Nope this is a myth, assuming you continue to train hard and eat right you can keep most of your gains. Scientific studies have showed this, there's a muscle memory effect after taking steroids, the same process that applies to weightlifting.

    It has been shown that athlete remain at an advantage years after stopping steroids, that's why the Olympics want to ban cheaters forever.

    Here are some links :

    https://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/7820

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190125084106.htm

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-24730151

    edited September 19
  • watts6151watts6151 Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member
    watts6151 wrote: »
    Actually steroids put on muscle and increase strength regardless of any training stimulus, these studies have been around for decades

    For those that disagree please post your evidence, Its a classic study and clearly shows that sitting on your back side while taking 600mg pw of testosterone will grow significant amount of muscle

    https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.2001.281.6.E1172?rfr_dat=cr_pub++0pubmed&url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org
    edited September 19
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 43,323 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 43,323 Member
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
    Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular. :#
    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
    Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
    Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
    I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • ythannahythannah Member Posts: 3,392 Member Member Posts: 3,392 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
    Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular. :#
    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
    Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
    Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
    I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Admittedly a lot of my bias against them comes not only from my experience with my unpleasantly enhanced coworker, but also from the usual sort of sensationalist YouTube stuff posted by users who may be an atypical extreme. I did know one young guy who had been using steroids for quite a while and died of cancer in his early 40s. I hope it wasn't in any way connected to the steroids.

    It would definitely be helpful if there was a magical "something" that would counteract the loss of natural hormones that I have at my age and roll back my physical clock to a point in time where attempting to build muscle was a lot easier but a) I wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was doing :D and b) I probably wouldn't like the side effects. So it's a No for me.
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 43,323 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 43,323 Member
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
    Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular. :#
    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
    Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
    Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
    I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Admittedly a lot of my bias against them comes not only from my experience with my unpleasantly enhanced coworker, but also from the usual sort of sensationalist YouTube stuff posted by users who may be an atypical extreme. I did know one young guy who had been using steroids for quite a while and died of cancer in his early 40s. I hope it wasn't in any way connected to the steroids.

    It would definitely be helpful if there was a magical "something" that would counteract the loss of natural hormones that I have at my age and roll back my physical clock to a point in time where attempting to build muscle was a lot easier but a) I wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was doing :D and b) I probably wouldn't like the side effects. So it's a No for me.
    The biggest issue I see with PED's is the abuse. So one gets on a cycle, gets some gains and then decides more is better. Then they get more interested in "STACKING" steroids and/or HGH. If you've ever seen pro and amatuer competitors stacks, they also include things like an aromatase inhibitor (so you don't get gynecomastia), insulin and then when they get off (if they do) HCG. It's crazy. I have a client that is only on 100mg a week and looks great AFTER we got down to 15% body fat first. Now he's increased muscle mass (he's past 55) and it's noticed by other members. But he's only cycled twice with good time off so he doesn't become dependent on it. I have no issues if men want to use PED's. Just don't abuse them for vanity reasons.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


  • IronIsMyTherapyIronIsMyTherapy Member Posts: 463 Member Member Posts: 463 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
    Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular. :#
    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
    Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
    Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
    I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Admittedly a lot of my bias against them comes not only from my experience with my unpleasantly enhanced coworker, but also from the usual sort of sensationalist YouTube stuff posted by users who may be an atypical extreme. I did know one young guy who had been using steroids for quite a while and died of cancer in his early 40s. I hope it wasn't in any way connected to the steroids.

    It would definitely be helpful if there was a magical "something" that would counteract the loss of natural hormones that I have at my age and roll back my physical clock to a point in time where attempting to build muscle was a lot easier but a) I wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was doing :D and b) I probably wouldn't like the side effects. So it's a No for me.
    The biggest issue I see with PED's is the abuse. So one gets on a cycle, gets some gains and then decides more is better. Then they get more interested in "STACKING" steroids and/or HGH. If you've ever seen pro and amatuer competitors stacks, they also include things like an aromatase inhibitor (so you don't get gynecomastia), insulin and then when they get off (if they do) HCG. It's crazy. I have a client that is only on 100mg a week and looks great AFTER we got down to 15% body fat first. Now he's increased muscle mass (he's past 55) and it's noticed by other members. But he's only cycled twice with good time off so he doesn't become dependent on it. I have no issues if men want to use PED's. Just don't abuse them for vanity reasons.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    My biggest issue is enhanced fitness personalities promoting products to teenagers as if that's what's responsible for their physique. I remember buying Celltech when I was 17 because of the before and after pic on the back.8b8pu0pgezbc.jpg
  • watts6151watts6151 Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
    Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular. :#
    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
    Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
    Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
    I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Admittedly a lot of my bias against them comes not only from my experience with my unpleasantly enhanced coworker, but also from the usual sort of sensationalist YouTube stuff posted by users who may be an atypical extreme. I did know one young guy who had been using steroids for quite a while and died of cancer in his early 40s. I hope it wasn't in any way connected to the steroids.

    It would definitely be helpful if there was a magical "something" that would counteract the loss of natural hormones that I have at my age and roll back my physical clock to a point in time where attempting to build muscle was a lot easier but a) I wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was doing :D and b) I probably wouldn't like the side effects. So it's a No for me.
    The biggest issue I see with PED's is the abuse. So one gets on a cycle, gets some gains and then decides more is better. Then they get more interested in "STACKING" steroids and/or HGH. If you've ever seen pro and amatuer competitors stacks, they also include things like an aromatase inhibitor (so you don't get gynecomastia), insulin and then when they get off (if they do) HCG. It's crazy. I have a client that is only on 100mg a week and looks great AFTER we got down to 15% body fat first. Now he's increased muscle mass (he's past 55) and it's noticed by other members. But he's only cycled twice with good time off so he doesn't become dependent on it. I have no issues if men want to use PED's. Just don't abuse them for vanity reasons.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    My biggest issue is enhanced fitness personalities promoting products to teenagers as if that's what's responsible for their physique. I remember buying Celltech when I was 17 because of the before and after pic on the back.8b8pu0pgezbc.jpg

    I bought the original celltech, burned like drinking battery acid 😂😂
  • IronIsMyTherapyIronIsMyTherapy Member Posts: 463 Member Member Posts: 463 Member
    watts6151 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
    Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular. :#
    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
    Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
    Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
    I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Admittedly a lot of my bias against them comes not only from my experience with my unpleasantly enhanced coworker, but also from the usual sort of sensationalist YouTube stuff posted by users who may be an atypical extreme. I did know one young guy who had been using steroids for quite a while and died of cancer in his early 40s. I hope it wasn't in any way connected to the steroids.

    It would definitely be helpful if there was a magical "something" that would counteract the loss of natural hormones that I have at my age and roll back my physical clock to a point in time where attempting to build muscle was a lot easier but a) I wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was doing :D and b) I probably wouldn't like the side effects. So it's a No for me.
    The biggest issue I see with PED's is the abuse. So one gets on a cycle, gets some gains and then decides more is better. Then they get more interested in "STACKING" steroids and/or HGH. If you've ever seen pro and amatuer competitors stacks, they also include things like an aromatase inhibitor (so you don't get gynecomastia), insulin and then when they get off (if they do) HCG. It's crazy. I have a client that is only on 100mg a week and looks great AFTER we got down to 15% body fat first. Now he's increased muscle mass (he's past 55) and it's noticed by other members. But he's only cycled twice with good time off so he doesn't become dependent on it. I have no issues if men want to use PED's. Just don't abuse them for vanity reasons.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    My biggest issue is enhanced fitness personalities promoting products to teenagers as if that's what's responsible for their physique. I remember buying Celltech when I was 17 because of the before and after pic on the back.8b8pu0pgezbc.jpg

    I bought the original celltech, burned like drinking battery acid 😂😂

    Oh, SO bad. I ain't fussy about supplement taste but that stuff was horrible.
  • watts6151watts6151 Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member Member, Premium Posts: 773 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
    Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular. :#
    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
    Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
    Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
    I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Admittedly a lot of my bias against them comes not only from my experience with my unpleasantly enhanced coworker, but also from the usual sort of sensationalist YouTube stuff posted by users who may be an atypical extreme. I did know one young guy who had been using steroids for quite a while and died of cancer in his early 40s. I hope it wasn't in any way connected to the steroids.

    It would definitely be helpful if there was a magical "something" that would counteract the loss of natural hormones that I have at my age and roll back my physical clock to a point in time where attempting to build muscle was a lot easier but a) I wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was doing :D and b) I probably wouldn't like the side effects. So it's a No for me.
    The biggest issue I see with PED's is the abuse. So one gets on a cycle, gets some gains and then decides more is better. Then they get more interested in "STACKING" steroids and/or HGH. If you've ever seen pro and amatuer competitors stacks, they also include things like an aromatase inhibitor (so you don't get gynecomastia), insulin and then when they get off (if they do) HCG. It's crazy. I have a client that is only on 100mg a week and looks great AFTER we got down to 15% body fat first. Now he's increased muscle mass (he's past 55) and it's noticed by other members. But he's only cycled twice with good time off so he doesn't become dependent on it. I have no issues if men want to use PED's. Just don't abuse them for vanity reasons.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    Ai’s are generally only used in the last few weeks before competition. The more estrogen in the body the better it will grow so taking an Ai In the off season is counter productive. Top amateur and pro’s will use insulin to help growth But also helps the pancreas which will be under a lot of stress to produce enough insulin when consuming upwards of 1000g of carbs per day. Hcg should be used on cycle, hmg usually off cycle
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 43,323 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 43,323 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
    Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular. :#
    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
    Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
    Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
    I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Admittedly a lot of my bias against them comes not only from my experience with my unpleasantly enhanced coworker, but also from the usual sort of sensationalist YouTube stuff posted by users who may be an atypical extreme. I did know one young guy who had been using steroids for quite a while and died of cancer in his early 40s. I hope it wasn't in any way connected to the steroids.

    It would definitely be helpful if there was a magical "something" that would counteract the loss of natural hormones that I have at my age and roll back my physical clock to a point in time where attempting to build muscle was a lot easier but a) I wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was doing :D and b) I probably wouldn't like the side effects. So it's a No for me.
    The biggest issue I see with PED's is the abuse. So one gets on a cycle, gets some gains and then decides more is better. Then they get more interested in "STACKING" steroids and/or HGH. If you've ever seen pro and amatuer competitors stacks, they also include things like an aromatase inhibitor (so you don't get gynecomastia), insulin and then when they get off (if they do) HCG. It's crazy. I have a client that is only on 100mg a week and looks great AFTER we got down to 15% body fat first. Now he's increased muscle mass (he's past 55) and it's noticed by other members. But he's only cycled twice with good time off so he doesn't become dependent on it. I have no issues if men want to use PED's. Just don't abuse them for vanity reasons.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    My biggest issue is enhanced fitness personalities promoting products to teenagers as if that's what's responsible for their physique. I remember buying Celltech when I was 17 because of the before and after pic on the back.8b8pu0pgezbc.jpg
    I used MuscleTech products from 1998 till about 2000. That's when they had Andro legal. And it worked. But now you can't buy anything OTC anymore with the exception of ephedra. MuscleTech got so commercial though. I hate their advertising when they say "scientifically proven ingredients". Well yeah, ONE ingredient may be scientifically proven, but THEIR PRODUCT wasn't tested, just the ingredient in it. So deceptive. I'm bigger on ON (Optimum Nutrition) because they manufacture their own product and don't get raw material from China.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 43,323 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 43,323 Member
    watts6151 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?
    Hate to tell you that the majority of guys on PED's work REALLY HARD and personally give up a lot of their life to focus on muscle building. Pretty shallow to say they don't work hard. You just don't take steroids and become muscular. :#
    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.
    Women SHOULDN'T be taking steroids.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I didn't say that they didn't work for their muscle, I said that their results aren't solely due to physical effort. The drugs are called enhancers for a reason.
    Well they still have to put in the effort. And in fact because of the PED's they are lifting heavier poundages and recovering better than if they did it naturally. Now obviously that will have an impact once they get off, but they might be better physique wise after getting off compared to training their butts off naturally and not getting there.
    I'm a natural. Have been my whole life. I never took PED's because I didn't want to depend on them the rest of my life. But I wish I had bigger hamstrings and rounder shoulders. PED's could change that for me. I'm just not interested in wanting those changes that bad. But I can tell you that there are lots of guys I know who train really hard on PED's and look great, and others that don't train hard and I look better than them.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Admittedly a lot of my bias against them comes not only from my experience with my unpleasantly enhanced coworker, but also from the usual sort of sensationalist YouTube stuff posted by users who may be an atypical extreme. I did know one young guy who had been using steroids for quite a while and died of cancer in his early 40s. I hope it wasn't in any way connected to the steroids.

    It would definitely be helpful if there was a magical "something" that would counteract the loss of natural hormones that I have at my age and roll back my physical clock to a point in time where attempting to build muscle was a lot easier but a) I wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was doing :D and b) I probably wouldn't like the side effects. So it's a No for me.
    The biggest issue I see with PED's is the abuse. So one gets on a cycle, gets some gains and then decides more is better. Then they get more interested in "STACKING" steroids and/or HGH. If you've ever seen pro and amatuer competitors stacks, they also include things like an aromatase inhibitor (so you don't get gynecomastia), insulin and then when they get off (if they do) HCG. It's crazy. I have a client that is only on 100mg a week and looks great AFTER we got down to 15% body fat first. Now he's increased muscle mass (he's past 55) and it's noticed by other members. But he's only cycled twice with good time off so he doesn't become dependent on it. I have no issues if men want to use PED's. Just don't abuse them for vanity reasons.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    Ai’s are generally only used in the last few weeks before competition. The more estrogen in the body the better it will grow so taking an Ai In the off season is counter productive. Top amateur and pro’s will use insulin to help growth But also helps the pancreas which will be under a lot of stress to produce enough insulin when consuming upwards of 1000g of carbs per day. Hcg should be used on cycle, hmg usually off cycle
    I stand corrected on HCG and HMG.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • drewbearzdrewbearz Member Posts: 1 Member Member Posts: 1 Member
    Stay natural! Why risk your health taking steroids?
  • supercpa999supercpa999 Member, Premium Posts: 198 Member Member, Premium Posts: 198 Member
    drewbearz wrote: »
    Stay natural! Why risk your health taking steroids?
    @drewbearz
    Agreed

  • rheddmobilerheddmobile Member Posts: 5,773 Member Member Posts: 5,773 Member
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    In general (not specific to particular competitions), I think the use of drug enhancers for muscle/body building is cheating. How can you take pride in the results when you haven't achieved them solely through personal effort and hard work?

    I worked with a woman who was into competitive body building for a while and was using steroids. The effect on her personality was not pleasant, ten of her direct reports quit within a year because she was so difficult to deal with. And it was all for nought, she didn't win anything. Her competitors obviously had access to better drugs than she did.

    Even if you take steroids, you have to put in the work. It's not magic.

    It’s a lot less work; so I would also consider it cheating. Steroids also have a lot of potential health side effects, so don’t seem worth the risks associated.

    It's not a lot less work.

    Yes, it IS a lot less work. That’s why some people choose to use steroids as they want the short cut. If you had to do just as much work, no one would spend the money on them or risk their health... 🙄

    No, it's not less work. It enhances the results of people with an existing extraordinary work ethic. I know a lot of guys on stuff that look average because their work ethic is average. No, I'm not natural but it's not uncommon for me to puke mid workout, I've passed out, I've burst blood vessels in my eyes deadlifting and I've been like that since before I went to the dark side. I'll say it again; stick a needle in the butt of a guy that puts in average effort, you won't notice a thing. It's not a shortcut, it's a road to a physical place you can't get to naturally IF YOU WORK EXTREMELY HARD. That's kinda like saying running a marathon is a shortcut to walking a half marathon because you got there quicker. And cheating? What did I win? Who did I screw over, who's the victim? By that logic, makeup is cheating.

    It’s more like saying riding a bike is a shortcut to running a marathon. The victim is everyone who doesn’t want to break laws and abuse their body in order to be competitive. I get you, you and the other bike riders are pedaling super hard, in fact pedaling maybe even harder than the runners. But by your own admission, you are going faster than anyone could by running.

    It’s a funny sort of sport that has a “no cheating” division and a “wink wink” division. I guess that’s at least an improvement over having everyone together so nattys have no chance.
    edited September 22
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