Bone broth question...
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MikePfirrman wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Broth is a nutrient dense superfood that a lot of people who follow a paleo/keto lifestyle enjoy regularly. There are tons of people who actually do drink broth by itself (I'm one of them!). When it is prepared properly, it contains lots of vitamins and minerals as well as glucosamine and chondroitin. Broth is known to be very healing particularly to the stomach lining. People drink it regularly as a part of a healthy lifestyle to heal a leaky gut or maintain a healthy gut. If you want some more information about broth, check out this article on the Weston Price website:
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/why-broth-is-beautiful-essential-roles-for-proline-glycine-and-gelatin/
I hope this helps!
OP, I'd be very skeptical of links from the Weston A. Price Foundation -- they are a conduit for sources of misinformation, including about Corona.
^ So. Much. This.
Bone broth is just broth made from bones. Like it has been forever. It's not a superfood, it doesn't have any curative powers - especially 'leaky gut' because that's not even a real thing.
It's just broth. I use it as a base for soups and stews, just like I always have. It's yummy.
What makes me laugh is what some stores are charging for their store-made 'Bone Broth' just because it's the latest caboose on the woo-woo train.
Did I mention it's just broth?
"Leaky Gut" has become a synonym for all the garbage advice out there all over the internet from guys like "Dr Axe" claiming that bone broth cures everything under the sun. While I vehemently disagree with some of his "medical" advice, it has been scientifically proven that the stomach is permeable. And in certain people, more so.
We have to be careful when we say "leaky gut isn't a thing", because technically, that's not true. What is true is that of all the "leaky gut" advice out there, 99% of it is utter and complete BS.
I do a lot of technical recruiting. The microbiome space is one area that I work. Just one example. There is a bacteria called Akermansia Municiphilia (I might have spelled it wrong). That bacteria has been shown to assist in creating a more tight junction in the stomach. Ocean Spray actually did a study on it years ago because Cranberries help this one bacteria flourish in the stomach. That's why there's some truth to what a guy like Stephen Gundry says about Polyphenols being critical to your health (but there's a lot I disagree with him on, especially how everyone needs to buy his supplements at $60 a jar).
I'm also celiac. Part of the reason I get sick is that gluten increases the permeability of my stomach (that's scientifically demonstrated).
I don't want to get into much more or find the studies, but they are readily available.
"Leaky gut" is an interesting example of the general principle that pseudo-science and quack medicine can really flourish in the spaces where there is real human suffering, but we don't yet understand all the causes or effective treatments.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Broth is a nutrient dense superfood that a lot of people who follow a paleo/keto lifestyle enjoy regularly. There are tons of people who actually do drink broth by itself (I'm one of them!). When it is prepared properly, it contains lots of vitamins and minerals as well as glucosamine and chondroitin. Broth is known to be very healing particularly to the stomach lining. People drink it regularly as a part of a healthy lifestyle to heal a leaky gut or maintain a healthy gut. If you want some more information about broth, check out this article on the Weston Price website:
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/why-broth-is-beautiful-essential-roles-for-proline-glycine-and-gelatin/
I hope this helps!
OP, I'd be very skeptical of links from the Weston A. Price Foundation -- they are a conduit for sources of misinformation, including about Corona.
^ So. Much. This.
Bone broth is just broth made from bones. Like it has been forever. It's not a superfood, it doesn't have any curative powers - especially 'leaky gut' because that's not even a real thing.
It's just broth. I use it as a base for soups and stews, just like I always have. It's yummy.
What makes me laugh is what some stores are charging for their store-made 'Bone Broth' just because it's the latest caboose on the woo-woo train.
Did I mention it's just broth?
I've seen small containers selling for $7-9 in my city. Absolutely ridiculous.
Add "Organic" to the label and you can double that.
4 -
And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
10 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
Wait what?!?! How is bone broth VEGAN?!?! I’m so confused right now 😂😂😂2 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
Its made from the bones of vegans. Fe fi fo fum....17 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Wait what?!?! How is bone broth VEGAN?!?! I’m so confused right now 😂😂😂
Get in line.
It's actually just veggie broth trying to cash in on all the bone hype.
"Ever tried bone broth? This vegan bone broth recipe is made in the instant pot and has tons of health benefits! It's also gluten-free and good for your gut."
Ah, the trifecta of pretense!
I have a bone to pick with them.
If you think I'm kidding, Google "Instant pot vegan bone broth." It's the first hit.
5 -
I started making bone broth at home a few years ago and reading all the supposed health benefits which I now believe are overhyped. I started using it as a base to soups/stews/curries etc and found using the homemade stuff made my cooking taste SO much better! I haven’t been able to go back to store bought because of this and I figure if there is health benefits then that’s just a plus.
It’s actually pretty easy and cheap to make yourself, I would never buy it in stores, I’ve seen some in Australia selling for like $20 a jar7 -
My wife makes bone broth every week. I do believe there are health benefits but yes they are likely overblown. Buying pre-made bone broth at stores or restaurants is likely really expensive. My wife will buy cheap bones from the market and use the instant pot to make it into broth.
I'll drink a cup of bone broth every other day or so. I don't drink it for its health benefits - I drink it because it tastes so damn good!!!!
4 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
My daughter is vegetarian. I've looked at some of these recipes. I believe they are more geared toward collagen production. That's allegedly why bone broth is supposed to be good for you. It has lots of glycine in it. But that's where the science gets suspect on bone broth. Even though glycine is a building block of collagen, the science of whether or not eating collagen makes more collagen is iffy.
The vegan versions concentrate on other things known (and in some cases more scientific) in helping to either improve gut health or make collagen. The Sunwarrior new "Collagen" mix has Horsetail extract in it. Though I don't think that's the best source of absorbable silica, it has silica (or silicon) in it. Eating absorbably silicon is THE best way to help your own body make collagen. BioSil, Green Beans, some mineral waters, Bamboo Extracts and non-alcholic beer are the best sources of this. I try to eat Green Beans once a week. Fantastic for building collagen.
Changing the makeup of the human microbiome quickly is extremely challenging. One of the very few things that scientists have found that improves it quickly is seaweed (like Fucoidon, which is a brown seaweed derivative). Some of these "vegan broths" have seaweed.
I guess what I'm saying is there's likely more science behind some of the "vegan broths" or at least as much as actual bone broth.4 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
My daughter is vegetarian. I've looked at some of these recipes. I believe they are more geared toward collagen production. That's allegedly why bone broth is supposed to be good for you. It has lots of glycine in it. But that's where the science gets suspect on bone broth. Even though glycine is a building block of collagen, the science of whether or not eating collagen makes more collagen is iffy.
The vegan versions concentrate on other things known (and in some cases more scientific) in helping to either improve gut health or make collagen. The Sunwarrior new "Collagen" mix has Horsetail extract in it. Though I don't think that's the best source of absorbable silica, it has silica (or silicon) in it. Eating absorbably silicon is THE best way to help your own body make collagen. BioSil, Green Beans, some mineral waters, Bamboo Extracts and non-alcholic beer are the best sources of this. I try to eat Green Beans once a week. Fantastic for building collagen.
Changing the makeup of the human microbiome quickly is extremely challenging. One of the very few things that scientists have found that improves it quickly is seaweed (like Fucoidon, which is a brown seaweed derivative). Some of these "vegan broths" have seaweed.
I guess what I'm saying is there's likely more science behind some of the "vegan broths" or at least as much as actual bone broth.
That makes sense. Thanks!
My only objection is the use of "bone" as a descriptor, here. Obviously done to piggy-back on a trend to which they simply shouldn't be laying any claim or association.
11 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
Wait, what now?
Edit: I just read Mike's (very insightful) response to this and actually learned a lot! I'm still chucking at this recipe though . . .5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
Wait, what now?
Edit: I just read Mike's (very insightful) response to this and actually learned a lot! I'm still chucking at this recipe though . . .
It is funny actually. Vegan FOMO for bones. I'm sure that @janejellyroll sits up late at night and thinks, "man, I miss me some femur bones...". 7 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
My daughter is vegetarian. I've looked at some of these recipes. I believe they are more geared toward collagen production. That's allegedly why bone broth is supposed to be good for you. It has lots of glycine in it. But that's where the science gets suspect on bone broth. Even though glycine is a building block of collagen, the science of whether or not eating collagen makes more collagen is iffy.
The vegan versions concentrate on other things known (and in some cases more scientific) in helping to either improve gut health or make collagen. The Sunwarrior new "Collagen" mix has Horsetail extract in it. Though I don't think that's the best source of absorbable silica, it has silica (or silicon) in it. Eating absorbably silicon is THE best way to help your own body make collagen. BioSil, Green Beans, some mineral waters, Bamboo Extracts and non-alcholic beer are the best sources of this. I try to eat Green Beans once a week. Fantastic for building collagen.
Changing the makeup of the human microbiome quickly is extremely challenging. One of the very few things that scientists have found that improves it quickly is seaweed (like Fucoidon, which is a brown seaweed derivative). Some of these "vegan broths" have seaweed.
I guess what I'm saying is there's likely more science behind some of the "vegan broths" or at least as much as actual bone broth.
That makes sense. Thanks!
My only objection is the use of "bone" as a descriptor, here. Obviously done to piggy-back on a trend to which they simply shouldn't be laying any claim or association.
Beyond that, and not to keep harping on this, it's stock. Both bone-based stocks (chicken, beef, etc.) and vegetable stock are incredibly common, long-standing things, not some new health innovation. It's adding some woo and pretending like this is new to fit current obsessions (gut health, usually undefined what that means such that people think it means any digestive related thing plus pretty much anything else on the basis that the gut biome is somehow involved).
Here's the vegan bone broth you linked: https://www.simplyquinoa.com/instant-pot-vegan-bone-broth/
It's basically normal vegetable stock plus dried mushrooms (pretty common addition for flavor) and then seaweed for (generic) "gut health." Sure, whatever, but this is what gets me: "I was a little skeptical at first, but once I strained everything out, let it cool slightly and took a sip? WOW. Just wow.
Not only is it tasty, but it's incredibly nourishing. I can see why bone broth has become so popular. Sipping on this broth instantly makes you feel better. It's gentle on the system and is definitely something I'll be keeping on hand at all times."
That "instantly makes you feel better" and "incredibly nourishing" stuff, as well as the idea it's some new thing is just all eye-rolling. I mean, there is a mental effect, so sure, as with many things one thinks is good for you, I am sure there's some "makes you immediately feel better" thing for many, but it's purely mental. (This is pretty much the same as with actual bone broth, of course.)
Nothing wrong with vegetable broth (or stock) or chicken or beef stock (as one calls it if one is not trying to be trendy and appeal to woo). In fact, I would consider them kitchen basics important for flavorful soups and stews (and helpful in a number of other recipes), but the new clothes that it seems to be wearing in many of these write-ups or marketing materials are basically the same as the emperor's. It's not magical health broth, it's a basic cooking thing that people have been making since forever.
For the record, I do think it's good to eat a healthful diet that encourages good bacteria, and I would include those with pre and pro biotic benefits (including fermented foods). If seaweed has such benefits (there have been lots of claims for seaweed re many things), sure, whatever. I continue to find the whole "glop on to some food as magical and focus not on eating an overall healthy diet as the basis for "gut health" (oh, even the term now seems so trendy) but various magical foods of the day. I find it not a very sensible way to approach diet.12 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
My daughter is vegetarian. I've looked at some of these recipes. I believe they are more geared toward collagen production. That's allegedly why bone broth is supposed to be good for you. It has lots of glycine in it. But that's where the science gets suspect on bone broth. Even though glycine is a building block of collagen, the science of whether or not eating collagen makes more collagen is iffy.
The vegan versions concentrate on other things known (and in some cases more scientific) in helping to either improve gut health or make collagen. The Sunwarrior new "Collagen" mix has Horsetail extract in it. Though I don't think that's the best source of absorbable silica, it has silica (or silicon) in it. Eating absorbably silicon is THE best way to help your own body make collagen. BioSil, Green Beans, some mineral waters, Bamboo Extracts and non-alcholic beer are the best sources of this. I try to eat Green Beans once a week. Fantastic for building collagen.
Changing the makeup of the human microbiome quickly is extremely challenging. One of the very few things that scientists have found that improves it quickly is seaweed (like Fucoidon, which is a brown seaweed derivative). Some of these "vegan broths" have seaweed.
I guess what I'm saying is there's likely more science behind some of the "vegan broths" or at least as much as actual bone broth.
That makes sense. Thanks!
My only objection is the use of "bone" as a descriptor, here. Obviously done to piggy-back on a trend to which they simply shouldn't be laying any claim or association.
Beyond that, and not to keep harping on this, it's stock. Both bone-based stocks (chicken, beef, etc.) and vegetable stock are incredibly common, long-standing things, not some new health innovation. It's adding some woo and pretending like this is new to fit current obsessions (gut health, usually undefined what that means such that people think it means any digestive related thing plus pretty much anything else on the basis that the gut biome is somehow involved).
Here's the vegan bone broth you linked: https://www.simplyquinoa.com/instant-pot-vegan-bone-broth/
It's basically normal vegetable stock plus dried mushrooms (pretty common addition for flavor) and then seaweed for (generic) "gut health." Sure, whatever, but this is what gets me: "I was a little skeptical at first, but once I strained everything out, let it cool slightly and took a sip? WOW. Just wow.
Not only is it tasty, but it's incredibly nourishing. I can see why bone broth has become so popular. Sipping on this broth instantly makes you feel better. It's gentle on the system and is definitely something I'll be keeping on hand at all times."
That "instantly makes you feel better" and "incredibly nourishing" stuff, as well as the idea it's some new thing is just all eye-rolling. I mean, there is a mental effect, so sure, as with many things one thinks is good for you, I am sure there's some "makes you immediately feel better" thing for many, but it's purely mental. (This is pretty much the same as with actual bone broth, of course.)
Nothing wrong with vegetable broth (or stock) or chicken or beef stock (as one calls it if one is not trying to be trendy and appeal to woo), but the new clothes that it seems to be wearing are basically the same as the emperor's.
For the record, I do think it's good to eat a healthful diet that encourages good bacteria, and I would include those with pre and pro biotic benefits (including fermented foods). If seaweed has such benefits (there have been lots of claims for seaweed re many things), sure, whatever. I continue to find the whole "glop on to some food as magical and focus not on eating an overall healthy diet as the basis for "gut health" (oh, even the term now seems so trendy) but various magical foods of the day. I find it not a very sensible way to approach diet.
I also love drinking broth. It's very comforting in winter and it's especially nice after a long run. But yeah . . . everything you said.6 -
Totally agree -- as I said above, it was something we'd have as a kid when sick, and I enjoy it plain at times now too. It would be great after a run, especially as some salt in it would help with electrolytes, and also great after a cold winter run because it tastes good warm. But the "wellness" or medicalization language that now surrounds it, sigh.5
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MikePfirrman wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Broth is a nutrient dense superfood that a lot of people who follow a paleo/keto lifestyle enjoy regularly. There are tons of people who actually do drink broth by itself (I'm one of them!). When it is prepared properly, it contains lots of vitamins and minerals as well as glucosamine and chondroitin. Broth is known to be very healing particularly to the stomach lining. People drink it regularly as a part of a healthy lifestyle to heal a leaky gut or maintain a healthy gut. If you want some more information about broth, check out this article on the Weston Price website:
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/why-broth-is-beautiful-essential-roles-for-proline-glycine-and-gelatin/
I hope this helps!
OP, I'd be very skeptical of links from the Weston A. Price Foundation -- they are a conduit for sources of misinformation, including about Corona.
^ So. Much. This.
Bone broth is just broth made from bones. Like it has been forever. It's not a superfood, it doesn't have any curative powers - especially 'leaky gut' because that's not even a real thing.
It's just broth. I use it as a base for soups and stews, just like I always have. It's yummy.
What makes me laugh is what some stores are charging for their store-made 'Bone Broth' just because it's the latest caboose on the woo-woo train.
Did I mention it's just broth?
"Leaky Gut" has become a synonym for all the garbage advice out there all over the internet from guys like "Dr Axe" claiming that bone broth cures everything under the sun. While I vehemently disagree with some of his "medical" advice, it has been scientifically proven that the stomach is permeable. And in certain people, more so.
We have to be careful when we say "leaky gut isn't a thing", because technically, that's not true. What is true is that of all the "leaky gut" advice out there, 99% of it is utter and complete BS.
I do a lot of technical recruiting. The microbiome space is one area that I work. Just one example. There is a bacteria called Akermansia Municiphilia (I might have spelled it wrong). That bacteria has been shown to assist in creating a more tight junction in the stomach. Ocean Spray actually did a study on it years ago because Cranberries help this one bacteria flourish in the stomach. That's why there's some truth to what a guy like Stephen Gundry says about Polyphenols being critical to your health (but there's a lot I disagree with him on, especially how everyone needs to buy his supplements at $60 a jar).
I'm also celiac. Part of the reason I get sick is that gluten increases the permeability of my stomach (that's scientifically demonstrated).
I don't want to get into much more or find the studies, but they are readily available.
Thank you! I am not celiac diagnosed but gluten is a major migraine trigger for me. My doctors have cited the same info you have given and more!0 -
I'm having a rib roast for Christmas...I will definitely be using the bones to make a nice broth for some French Onion Soup.13
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snickerscharlie wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
My daughter is vegetarian. I've looked at some of these recipes. I believe they are more geared toward collagen production. That's allegedly why bone broth is supposed to be good for you. It has lots of glycine in it. But that's where the science gets suspect on bone broth. Even though glycine is a building block of collagen, the science of whether or not eating collagen makes more collagen is iffy.
The vegan versions concentrate on other things known (and in some cases more scientific) in helping to either improve gut health or make collagen. The Sunwarrior new "Collagen" mix has Horsetail extract in it. Though I don't think that's the best source of absorbable silica, it has silica (or silicon) in it. Eating absorbably silicon is THE best way to help your own body make collagen. BioSil, Green Beans, some mineral waters, Bamboo Extracts and non-alcholic beer are the best sources of this. I try to eat Green Beans once a week. Fantastic for building collagen.
Changing the makeup of the human microbiome quickly is extremely challenging. One of the very few things that scientists have found that improves it quickly is seaweed (like Fucoidon, which is a brown seaweed derivative). Some of these "vegan broths" have seaweed.
I guess what I'm saying is there's likely more science behind some of the "vegan broths" or at least as much as actual bone broth.
That makes sense. Thanks!
My only objection is the use of "bone" as a descriptor, here. Obviously done to piggy-back on a trend to which they simply shouldn't be laying any claim or association.
Here's a bit of a rethink on the terminology (just for fun, joking around):
Given Mike's comments, it sounds like at least some of the vegan "bone broth" recipes are potentially nutritionally good for a person's bones. Meaty-type bone broth is made from bones.
Maybe both are legitimately "bone broth", for different reasons, with different meanings? 😉😆🤣4 -
discolady74 wrote: »A new place near my home popped up that serves bone broth. I've heard of it, tried to understand why people would drink it, but I kinda wanted to know if anyone out there has tried it and is it something you do often? Do you use it to replace meals or snacks?
Bone broth typically has more protein than chicken, beef, or Turkey stock. Like stock, it can be high in sodium, if that’s a concern for you. Drinking a cup was very convenient for me at work when my meetings were running together and I needed a little something. More satisfying for me than cuppa soup. I’d just heat it up in the microwave; everyone usually has their cup o’something. If you ever decide to do that, be sure and get bone broth labeled “perfect for sipping.” Believe me, it’s not all that way! 😂0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »And the piece de resistance?
Yup. Let that sink in.
My daughter is vegetarian. I've looked at some of these recipes. I believe they are more geared toward collagen production. That's allegedly why bone broth is supposed to be good for you. It has lots of glycine in it. But that's where the science gets suspect on bone broth. Even though glycine is a building block of collagen, the science of whether or not eating collagen makes more collagen is iffy.
The vegan versions concentrate on other things known (and in some cases more scientific) in helping to either improve gut health or make collagen. The Sunwarrior new "Collagen" mix has Horsetail extract in it. Though I don't think that's the best source of absorbable silica, it has silica (or silicon) in it. Eating absorbably silicon is THE best way to help your own body make collagen. BioSil, Green Beans, some mineral waters, Bamboo Extracts and non-alcholic beer are the best sources of this. I try to eat Green Beans once a week. Fantastic for building collagen.
Changing the makeup of the human microbiome quickly is extremely challenging. One of the very few things that scientists have found that improves it quickly is seaweed (like Fucoidon, which is a brown seaweed derivative). Some of these "vegan broths" have seaweed.
I guess what I'm saying is there's likely more science behind some of the "vegan broths" or at least as much as actual bone broth.
That makes sense. Thanks!
My only objection is the use of "bone" as a descriptor, here. Obviously done to piggy-back on a trend to which they simply shouldn't be laying any claim or association.
Here's a bit of a rethink on the terminology (just for fun, joking around):
Given Mike's comments, it sounds like at least some of the vegan "bone broth" recipes are potentially nutritionally good for a person's bones. Meaty-type bone broth is made from bones.
Maybe both are legitimately "bone broth", for different reasons, with different meanings? 😉😆🤣
Wee bit of a stretch, but I'll give it to you. 3
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