Muscle gain, burning fat vegetarian here.
Unfadedz
Posts: 11 Member
Hello everyone,
Small intro about me and my goals. Been trying this for about a month, and loving it. High protein, low carb (except training days), moderate fat approach.
5'9.5 , 157lb, about 11% BF
Goal is to maintain, maybe get to 160lb, with 9-10%BF.
PROS:
- great energy
- aesthetically pleasing
- so much more
CONS:
- harder to enjoy holidays, ng. But have increased re-feed days to help.
- Not too many sources of protein for vegetarians, but I'm making this work with protein shakes, plant based protein alternatives and of course sources like tofu and egg whites.
Feel free to provide input, loving the community so far.
Small intro about me and my goals. Been trying this for about a month, and loving it. High protein, low carb (except training days), moderate fat approach.
5'9.5 , 157lb, about 11% BF
Goal is to maintain, maybe get to 160lb, with 9-10%BF.
PROS:
- great energy
- aesthetically pleasing
- so much more
CONS:
- harder to enjoy holidays, ng. But have increased re-feed days to help.
- Not too many sources of protein for vegetarians, but I'm making this work with protein shakes, plant based protein alternatives and of course sources like tofu and egg whites.
Feel free to provide input, loving the community so far.
2
Replies
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Welcome to MFP!
There's some great resources here for good protein sources for vegetarians. You probably already eat 'em all. Beans, pulses, tempeh, nuts, and even sprouts.
At 11% BF, you're already pretty lean. Good luck; you've got a tough row to hoe, but you can do it if you want. Slow and steady!0 -
Thanks Mtartoot, also I'm not sure how to add folks but looking for active members here
Would love to share and follow others journey as well. 0 -
Well to GAIN muscle, you'll need to put on weight. Which means a small surplus if you're trying to do it slow. Eating at maintenance won't do it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
4 -
Click on their user name.
A new window will appear. Click on their user name in THAT window, and you can send a friend request. You might look at their profile first; many folks don't accept friend requests without some kind of explanation. There's some sleazy folks around here, and fortunately they are in the minority.
Poke around; there's lots of vegetarians. You'll find your mojo.0 -
Thanks for the insight Niner, what I meant to say was maintaining once I get to 160
Anyone know any good options for high protein, moderate/low fat, low carb option for vegetarians besides protein shakes and egg whites?0 -
Thanks for the insight Niner, what I meant to say was maintaining once I get to 160
Anyone know any good options for high protein, moderate/low fat, low carb option for vegetarians besides protein shakes and egg whites?
Tofu and tempeh are both moderate in fat and carbohydrates. Seitan isn't low carbohydrate, but the fat can be very low (if you make your own, you can control how much fat you put in it), and it's very high protein. Don't miss out on vegetables -- although few of them are what I'd call high protein, many of them have enough fat to be a nice complement to the rest of the protein that you're eating and most of them are low in fat. If you're going for a true low carbohydrate way of life, it may be tricky to get substantial quantities of vegetables though . . .0 -
This thread will be a good resource:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also
As a vegetarian, you'll need to scroll past the mostly meaty/fishy things at the top of the linked spreadsheet, but the veg-friendly sources are in there. Because it's in order by calorie efficiency (most protein for fewest calories), it's inherently going to highlight relatively lower-fat/carb sources.
IMO, vegetarians are well served by varying protein sources, and getting a little extra protein, because our protein sources tend to be a little less complete, in terms of essential amino acids (EAA). We can make up for that a bit by regularly choosing from a wide variety of sources, and learning about traditional food combinations in vegetarian-centric food traditions. (No need to balance EAAs all in one meal, but general EAA balance over a day or few is a good goal.)
Don't forget about micronutrients that can be a little more challenging for those of us with fewer animal food sources. In that connection, this is a great, evidence-based site: https://veganhealth.org/. Yeah, it's specifically vegan, but the nutritional issues have similarities.
I have a relatively high protein goal for my size (minimum 1g/pound of estimated lean mass), and usually exceed it as an ovo-lacto vegetarian (which I've been for 46+ years now), in my case without using protein powder, protein bars, or commercial faux meats. (There's nothing wrong with those IMO, I just don't personally find them tasty or satisfying, and life is too short to eat things I don't enjoy, especially on a calorie budget.)
Beyond that, though, I have to admit we have little in common: I'm female, 5'5", 125 pounds, age 65, and (as a female) 11% BF would be a Bad Plan (I figure I'm mid-20s someplace, OK for a li'l ol' lady). I have fitness goals, but not muscle gain per se . . . these days, it's more like "avoid permanent move to an assisted living facility for as long as possible". 😆)
Wishing you much success with your goals!3 -
Have you tried nut butters as a high source of vegetarian protein? They will have to be used in moderation because of fat content, but there is such a great variety (cashew, almond, peanut) and you could look into seed butters like sunflower or tahini (sesame seed). As for low fat high protein, tempeh and tofu are probably your best bet. Lentils are so good as well, but high carbs. Hard boiled eggs maybe?1
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Have you tried nut butters as a high source of vegetarian protein? They will have to be used in moderation because of fat content, but there is such a great variety (cashew, almond, peanut) and you could look into seed butters like sunflower or tahini (sesame seed). As for low fat high protein, tempeh and tofu are probably your best bet. Lentils are so good as well, but high carbs. Hard boiled eggs maybe?
Nut butters are a terrible source of protein especially when a goal is to gain muscle. They are very low in L-Luecine, which is a major driver for MPS.
OP, do you still eat eggs or dairy? If so, that is where you should focus a lot of your protein since they are complete. Otherwise, seitan, soy and if necessary vegan whey are ideal.4 -
Well to GAIN muscle, you'll need to put on weight. Which means a small surplus if you're trying to do it slow. Eating at maintenance won't do it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You can gain muscle in a deficit or even at maintenance. I would say it's more optimal in a surplus but its not necessary.2 -
Janey, Ann and Ren thanks for the insights, never heard of Tempeh definitely gonna look into that and the link.
PsuLemon I do eat eggs and dairy. Thanks for those recs, I'll have to learn how to make Seitan, right now i only cook 2 weeks a month, the other 2 are veestro meals (plant based delivery service).1 -
Janey, Ann and Ren thanks for the insights, never heard of Tempeh definitely gonna look into that and the link.
PsuLemon I do eat eggs and dairy. Thanks for those recs, I'll have to learn how to make Seitan, right now i only cook 2 weeks a month, the other 2 are veestro meals (plant based delivery service).
One the days you are eating more plant based, aim for 40g of protein per meal. On days you are eating eggs and dairy (especially things like Greek yogurt or cottage cheese), then 25-30g per meal is fine.1 -
Can you explain your reasoning as to why 40g/meal on plant based days vs 25-30g on dairy days?
Right now I'm consuming about 150-170g protein between those sources + plant based protein shake.0 -
Can you explain your reasoning as to why 40g/meal on plant based days vs 25-30g on dairy days?
Right now I'm consuming about 150-170g protein between those sources + plant based protein shake.
It's based on the recommendations from the two leading protein researchers (Dr. Stewart Phillips and Dr. Brad Schoenfeld). Its driven by the L-Luecine content from sources. Animal proteins have higher L-Luecine than plants. So consuming animals proteins allows for a lower amount to be consumed while stimulating muscle protein synthesis (MPS) thresholds. Essential, you need higher amounts of plant based protein to get 3g of L-Luecine to stimulate MPS at maximum rates.3 -
Also to add, depending on the number of meals you eat, at 150-170g per day, this might not be an issue as even if you had 3 meals and a snack, you would almost certainly cross that threshold each time.2
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In support of psu, who has given all the details: You'd find that most really *good* sources of vegan/vegetarian nutrition advice tend to suggest keeping total protein on the high side (though not always at mass-increase levels, nor necessarily because of leucine specifically but rather essential amino acid (EAA) balance generally).
For sure, if a source tells you that vegans/vegetarians require *less* protein than others (attributed to some kind of ethical magic, I guess?) . . . run away fast from that source.0 -
Very informative Psu, thanks. And while on the topic of essential amino acids Ann, where do you mainly get your source of EAAs from? Right now I think I'm mainly getting it from my protein shake
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WS2QQME/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Xqz7FbD4FGG450 -
Very informative Psu, thanks. And while on the topic of essential amino acids Ann, where do you mainly get your source of EAAs from? Right now I think I'm mainly getting it from my protein shake
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WS2QQME/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Xqz7FbD4FGG45
I eat meat, dairy, fish and have a whey daily. So i am not a good example. I always don't know if supplementation has the same impacts. Since you eat dairy, i would go for whey.
The one thing we haven't talked about, and is the most important is your lifting program. Can you talk about your workout plan? Are you following something structured? Do you track reps, sets, etc...?0 -
This thread will be a good resource:
Don't forget about micronutrients that can be a little more challenging for those of us with fewer animal food sources. In that connection, this is a great, evidence-based site: https://veganhealth.org/. Yeah, it's specifically vegan, but the nutritional issues have similarities. "
AnnPT77, veganhealth.org is a great link, thanks! Like you, I’m trying to focus more on a plant-based diet. Right now, I’m eating more plant-based frozen meals than fresh - but it’s a journey not a sprint right? I’ll enjoy browsing the articles.1 -
Very informative Psu, thanks. And while on the topic of essential amino acids Ann, where do you mainly get your source of EAAs from? Right now I think I'm mainly getting it from my protein shake
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WS2QQME/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Xqz7FbD4FGG45
Food. I get my EAAs from food.
I'm ovo-lacto, don't eat a lot of eggs (probably less than a dozen a month, some of which are ingredients rather than a think I just eat), but do eat a lot of dairy. Frothed hot skim milk in my coffee, nonfat Greek yogurt in my oatmeal every day (and occasionally elsewhere), most days a portion or two of cheese sometime during the day. I try not to overdo the dairy (I don't think it's evil, but in general I think dietary variety is a good idea), but I do love it (my Northern European genes seem to concur, finding it very digestible).
Since deciding I didn't wanna be obese anymore, and since the research on breast cancer and soy has sorted things out a bit**, I eat some soy thing most days because it's a calorie-efficient well-rounded source. What it is varies, but my most common are soy noodles, smoked tofu, tempeh, regular tofu. (** I'm a survivor of stage III (locally advanced) breast cancer, with a tumor type whose growth was fed by estrogen. Soy is a phytoestrogen. At the time (early 2000s) it was unclear whether soy should be avoided or not. Answer now seems to be "not". IMU, still a little murkier whether it might actually be beneficial.)
I started being vegetarian back in the 1970s, when it was thought that one needed to combine foods in a single meal to get a complete amino acid profile, so I learned about that. Now we know that the timing is a bit more flexible, but I still intuitively draw on that experience, varying protein sources and combinations across the day or few. Sometimes I suggest to new veggies that they consider the traditional cuisines that have a strong, long-term vegetarian tradition (Indian, for example). That's not a panacea at all, but it does point people in the direction of some food combinations that tend to be helpful.
I don't usually try to sell my personal "dietary religion", so please take this next as an explanatory comment for my choices, not a recommendation to others. I personally strongly prefer to get as many nutrients as possible from real food (vs. supplements), foods that I personally enjoy eating (because life is too short to eat yucky "superfoods").
Supplements are for things that I don't/can't get. Over the course of my lifetime, science has "discovered" many essential and beneficial nutrients. Before the discovery, they mostly aren't in supplements. After the discovery, they're often added to some formulations. They were in food all along. I kinda figure science isn't done discovering things, and that natural selection knew what it was doing when it adapted people (and their gut microbiome) to get along on food. Also, food is good (subjective, I know).
All of the above said, building muscle mass is not an explicit goal of mine. I'm a li'l ol' lady (age 65), pretty active athletically. I want to retain strength (maybe even gain some), in order to continue independent living as long as possible, and to support athletic performance (for fun, not competition anymore). Those goals drive me to seek good, well-rounded nutrition, and that includes considering EAA completeness as one point of attention among many . . . though I'm more lazy and "rule of thumb" oriented than meticulous about that. I'm not trying to optimize my protein intake as a *predominant* point of attention. It would be fun to have more muscle mass (it startles people a bit when a li'l ol' lady is strong or has some muscle, which is amusing to me), but it's not my focus.
Your choices can (probably should) vary from mine.2 -
Yes, it's possible with recomp but MAN depending on how much one is trying to gain, that could be many many years.Well to GAIN muscle, you'll need to put on weight. Which means a small surplus if you're trying to do it slow. Eating at maintenance won't do it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You can gain muscle in a deficit or even at maintenance. I would say it's more optimal in a surplus but its not necessary.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Very informative Psu, thanks. And while on the topic of essential amino acids Ann, where do you mainly get your source of EAAs from? Right now I think I'm mainly getting it from my protein shake
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WS2QQME/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Xqz7FbD4FGG45
I eat meat, dairy, fish and have a whey daily. So i am not a good example. I always don't know if supplementation has the same impacts. Since you eat dairy, i would go for whey.
The one thing we haven't talked about, and is the most important is your lifting program. Can you talk about your workout plan? Are you following something structured? Do you track reps, sets, etc...?
Funny you ask I'm just starting Athlean X, AX 2 program...
And yes my goals are different from yours Ann, but let's reach them!2 -
Very informative Psu, thanks. And while on the topic of essential amino acids Ann, where do you mainly get your source of EAAs from? Right now I think I'm mainly getting it from my protein shake
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WS2QQME/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Xqz7FbD4FGG45
I eat meat, dairy, fish and have a whey daily. So i am not a good example. I always don't know if supplementation has the same impacts. Since you eat dairy, i would go for whey.
The one thing we haven't talked about, and is the most important is your lifting program. Can you talk about your workout plan? Are you following something structured? Do you track reps, sets, etc...?
Funny you ask I'm just starting Athlean X, AX 2 program...
And yes my goals are different from yours Ann, but let's reach them!
How do you like his programs? I am a big fan of AthleanX but haven't ever taken a jump on his programs. I tend to think a lot of them are a bit more cardio than I'd like (based on some videos), although his BEAXST program looks super fascinating.
I do incorporate a lot of his moves into my workouts. Right now i am running a 6 day muscle building block. I do Chest/Arms, Legs, Back/Shoulders/Traps. The first 3 days are power blocks with hypertrophy accessories, and the 2nd 3 day set is hypertrophy primary lifts with hypertrophy/endurance accessories.
My goals are building strength and/or muscle while leaning out. I have been working to get ab definition. And my biggest goal is to recover from injuries.0 -
Very informative Psu, thanks. And while on the topic of essential amino acids Ann, where do you mainly get your source of EAAs from? Right now I think I'm mainly getting it from my protein shake
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WS2QQME/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Xqz7FbD4FGG45
I eat meat, dairy, fish and have a whey daily. So i am not a good example. I always don't know if supplementation has the same impacts. Since you eat dairy, i would go for whey.
The one thing we haven't talked about, and is the most important is your lifting program. Can you talk about your workout plan? Are you following something structured? Do you track reps, sets, etc...?
Funny you ask I'm just starting Athlean X, AX 2 program...
And yes my goals are different from yours Ann, but let's reach them!
How do you like his programs? I am a big fan of AthleanX but haven't ever taken a jump on his programs. I tend to think a lot of them are a bit more cardio than I'd like (based on some videos), although his BEAXST program looks super fascinating.
I do incorporate a lot of his moves into my workouts. Right now i am running a 6 day muscle building block. I do Chest/Arms, Legs, Back/Shoulders/Traps. The first 3 days are power blocks with hypertrophy accessories, and the 2nd 3 day set is hypertrophy primary lifts with hypertrophy/endurance accessories.
My goals are building strength and/or muscle while leaning out. I have been working to get ab definition. And my biggest goal is to recover from injuries.
Almost done with week 1, feeling good although very out of it today after a hard session. I skipped AX 1 and went straight to AX 2 since I'm already pretty lean and conditioned, and from what I've reviewed, unlike AX 1, AX 2 is more focused on resistance training, rather than cardio.
I think if you could afford the time, maybe try one of the 3 month programs and see how you feel about it?1 -
Very informative Psu, thanks. And while on the topic of essential amino acids Ann, where do you mainly get your source of EAAs from? Right now I think I'm mainly getting it from my protein shake
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WS2QQME/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Xqz7FbD4FGG45
I eat meat, dairy, fish and have a whey daily. So i am not a good example. I always don't know if supplementation has the same impacts. Since you eat dairy, i would go for whey.
The one thing we haven't talked about, and is the most important is your lifting program. Can you talk about your workout plan? Are you following something structured? Do you track reps, sets, etc...?
Funny you ask I'm just starting Athlean X, AX 2 program...
And yes my goals are different from yours Ann, but let's reach them!
How do you like his programs? I am a big fan of AthleanX but haven't ever taken a jump on his programs. I tend to think a lot of them are a bit more cardio than I'd like (based on some videos), although his BEAXST program looks super fascinating.
I do incorporate a lot of his moves into my workouts. Right now i am running a 6 day muscle building block. I do Chest/Arms, Legs, Back/Shoulders/Traps. The first 3 days are power blocks with hypertrophy accessories, and the 2nd 3 day set is hypertrophy primary lifts with hypertrophy/endurance accessories.
My goals are building strength and/or muscle while leaning out. I have been working to get ab definition. And my biggest goal is to recover from injuries.
Almost done with week 1, feeling good although very out of it today after a hard session. I skipped AX 1 and went straight to AX 2 since I'm already pretty lean and conditioned, and from what I've reviewed, unlike AX 1, AX 2 is more focused on resistance training, rather than cardio.
I think if you could afford the time, maybe try one of the 3 month programs and see how you feel about it?
Cool to have found this thread! I'm a vegetarian too for about 15 years now. But I do eat eggs and dairy. I just started athlean x as well but the first one. I'm only on my first week0 -
Very informative Psu, thanks. And while on the topic of essential amino acids Ann, where do you mainly get your source of EAAs from? Right now I think I'm mainly getting it from my protein shake
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WS2QQME/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Xqz7FbD4FGG45
I eat meat, dairy, fish and have a whey daily. So i am not a good example. I always don't know if supplementation has the same impacts. Since you eat dairy, i would go for whey.
The one thing we haven't talked about, and is the most important is your lifting program. Can you talk about your workout plan? Are you following something structured? Do you track reps, sets, etc...?
Funny you ask I'm just starting Athlean X, AX 2 program...
And yes my goals are different from yours Ann, but let's reach them!
How do you like his programs? I am a big fan of AthleanX but haven't ever taken a jump on his programs. I tend to think a lot of them are a bit more cardio than I'd like (based on some videos), although his BEAXST program looks super fascinating.
I do incorporate a lot of his moves into my workouts. Right now i am running a 6 day muscle building block. I do Chest/Arms, Legs, Back/Shoulders/Traps. The first 3 days are power blocks with hypertrophy accessories, and the 2nd 3 day set is hypertrophy primary lifts with hypertrophy/endurance accessories.
My goals are building strength and/or muscle while leaning out. I have been working to get ab definition. And my biggest goal is to recover from injuries.
Almost done with week 1, feeling good although very out of it today after a hard session. I skipped AX 1 and went straight to AX 2 since I'm already pretty lean and conditioned, and from what I've reviewed, unlike AX 1, AX 2 is more focused on resistance training, rather than cardio.
I think if you could afford the time, maybe try one of the 3 month programs and see how you feel about it?
Cool to have found this thread! I'm a vegetarian too for about 15 years now. But I do eat eggs and dairy. I just started athlean x as well but the first one. I'm only on my first week
Good luck!!0
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