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"Foodie Calls"
kshama2001
Posts: 28,052 Member
in Debate Club
Heard about this on another thread and thought that it might be a fun discussion topic. Who's done this? Who thinks it was done to them?
Dark personality traits predict women’s propensity to go on deceptive “foodie calls” for a free meal
"...a foodie call occurs when a person, despite their lack of romantic attraction to someone, agrees to go on a date just to get a free meal."
[The study authors wondered what sort of person would do this. They studied heterosexual women.]
"...“However, I think it’s more revealing to ask what type of women are most likely to engage in foodie calls. We found that women who score high in the dark triad — a constellation of three antisocial personality traits known as Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and subclinical Psychopathy — were most likely to engage in foodie calls,” he added.
In other words, participants who agreed more strongly with statements such as “I tend to manipulate others to get my way” (Machiavellianism), “I tend to expect special favors from others” (Narcissism), and “I tend to lack remorse” (Psychopathy) were more likely to engage in greater foodie call behavior.
“Although men tend to score higher on the dark triad than women, and many studies have already documented the negative dating behaviors exhibited by men, our study showcased how women’s dark traits can also predict exploitative and manipulative dating behavior,” Collisson said.
The researchers also found that women who endorsed traditional gender role beliefs were more likely to engage in foodie calls and find it acceptable.
Dark personality traits predict women’s propensity to go on deceptive “foodie calls” for a free meal
"...a foodie call occurs when a person, despite their lack of romantic attraction to someone, agrees to go on a date just to get a free meal."
[The study authors wondered what sort of person would do this. They studied heterosexual women.]
"...“However, I think it’s more revealing to ask what type of women are most likely to engage in foodie calls. We found that women who score high in the dark triad — a constellation of three antisocial personality traits known as Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and subclinical Psychopathy — were most likely to engage in foodie calls,” he added.
In other words, participants who agreed more strongly with statements such as “I tend to manipulate others to get my way” (Machiavellianism), “I tend to expect special favors from others” (Narcissism), and “I tend to lack remorse” (Psychopathy) were more likely to engage in greater foodie call behavior.
“Although men tend to score higher on the dark triad than women, and many studies have already documented the negative dating behaviors exhibited by men, our study showcased how women’s dark traits can also predict exploitative and manipulative dating behavior,” Collisson said.
The researchers also found that women who endorsed traditional gender role beliefs were more likely to engage in foodie calls and find it acceptable.
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Replies
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Is this supposed to be like a booty call except for food instead of sex?
This reeks of MRA/redpill/incel nonsense.8 -
goal06082021 wrote: »Is this supposed to be like a booty call except for food instead of sex?
This reeks of MRA/redpill/incel nonsense.
It's defined in the OP and the article - did you just read the title?7 -
Lol, I'll go on any date where food is involved.
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Yeah, the "associate Professor at Azusa Pacific University" source has me a bit skeptical on this one. Not that foodie calls don't ever happen, especially in places like Manhattan where a simple dinner with drinks might easily exceed $200USD; but I'm guessing that this dubious study also included things like plus-ones at weddings.3
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goal06082021 wrote: »Is this supposed to be like a booty call except for food instead of sex?
This reeks of MRA/redpill/incel nonsense.
I wonder if the study authors Jennifer and Trista are incels?4 -
Yeah, the "associate Professor at Azusa Pacific University" source has me a bit skeptical on this one. Not that foodie calls don't ever happen, especially in places like Manhattan where a simple dinner with drinks might easily exceed $200USD; but I'm guessing that this dubious study also included things like plus-ones at weddings.
I think anyone willing to endure a WEDDING to accompany someone for whom they have no romantic interest is a DARN GOOD FRIEND, not a mooch.12 -
I've never done it, and never would. I suspect I'd score pretty high on 2 of the 3 "dark triad" traits, not sure about the 3rd but I think not. Two things would disincline me:
1. I don't like to feel beholden to others, or to exploit them. (I do think that exchanging kind gestures is part of developing friendship, but that's mutualistic over time, not IMO exploitive.)
2. I think it's unethical, even though I'm one of those squishy "situational ethics" people.
I don't think I've been in a situation where it could've been done to me. Occasionally, I've bought a man a beer or food, but not in a dating situation (and it wasn't relevant in my context that they were men, but is relevant to the article's).
As you might expect, I disapprove of people who do foodie calls. I'd probably cut some slack for someone doing it in straitened circumstances, probably.
ETA: I've known women who I'm pretty sure have done this, and in our culture, I think it *is* more likely to be women, statistically, in hetero situations, simply because of the long cultural history of "man pays on dates". I understand that that's faded big time as a cultural factor, but I don't think it's fully dead yet. I don't know as much about same-sex dating dynamics.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
I think anyone willing to endure a WEDDING to accompany someone for whom they have no romantic interest is a DARN GOOD FRIEND, not a mooch.
lol Quite possibly!
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As someone who feels really awkward making small talk and getting to know people, it's hard for me to imagine doing this.
I will note that today this is generally seen as unpleasant/unethical behavior, but as someone who likes to read old advice books for fun, I've seen the advice to never turn down a "free" meal from a man in several 50s/60s books of advice for women. The point was that men tend to make more and if they enjoy your company enough to buy you dinner, why shouldn't you do it? A couple of them attempted to put a nicer spin on it by saying you never know when a guy you aren't that into may turn out to be more interesting than you first assumed and the date may wind up being a good thing, but some of them didn't even go that far. I think Helen Gurley Brown went so far as to say that a woman who paid for ANYTHING when a man was willing to pick up the bill was stupid.
I have seen many men posting about this type of behavior on reddit, although I suspect some of the posts are embellished or flat fabrications from people either seeking engagement or wanting to promote certain narratives about women's behavior. It's not that I doubt that some women do this, it's just some of the stories are just too good at baiting outrage.4 -
Searching deep to make a comment here. My first response was... NO WAY. Then, I thought... well, maybe in special cases. Then, maybe.
So there are a few things that go through my mind. There have been times where I thought it would just be fun to go on a date without the pressure of wanting to impress someone or thinking deeply about where things are going. I tend to be a bit picky and very decisive. And by picky, I just mean I have standards and people call it picky lol. So dates always felt a little weighty and more like going on an interview, until I met my now BF.
So I have dated guys I wasn't really interested in more for a fun, relaxed, night, with a free dinner. But it wasn't about just food. It was just the over all experience. I also went on "practice dates" to help myself relax when I finally did go out with someone who I was really interested in.3 -
Same as bootie calls...
two words...
Consenting adults.
Just keep expectations in check regardless of your Y chromosome status.3 -
MrsMellodoggerello wrote: »I'm pretty old fashioned about dating, and I'd never do that. However, I have gone to lunch or coffee with a few guys that liked, but didn't want to date. I thought that they asked me as a friend because they didn't make it clear that they were attracted to me beforehand. I did offer to pay for my share in those situations, whereas I probably wouldn't on a date unless maybe the guy is really poor. (I've learned my lesson about assuming a guy wants to be platonic friends!)
I learned this a different way. Having EE & physics majors in college, many of my classmates/friends were male. Shortly after graduating, on a boozy night with college friends in Georgetown, one looked me straight in the eye and said, "All your guy friends want to date you. No matter what they say." I'm probably misquoting but my sense was he meant it as a general truth, that any girl's guy friends will want to be more than just friends at some point. 30 years later, it still makes me kind of sad and there's always a part of me that's guarded about boundaries that might send unintended messages.
ETA: I have nothing to add to the topic, except to thank kshama for posting here!3 -
I'd never do it. There's no free meal that would be worth it to me, and plus if it was an expensive meal I'd feel super guilty afterwards. Beyond that, I hate doing the "sorry, I'm not interested" thing, and it's way less awkward before you go out than afterwards. Plus I have always felt better on a first date doing dutch anyway, and am sure I could find a friend to go with if I just wanted to try the place with someone.2
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A family friend in med school stayed with me one summer because she had some special training in my city. I barely saw her. When she wasn't in class, she was finding matches on Tinder who would take her out to eat. In three months, she never used the kitchen to make a meal. She figured she was young, single, in debt, and these guys were happy to do it. I have no idea what she's up to now, I might need to go find out...2
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Gah! Such a good point! I forgot how tortuous the "Sorry not interested" thing was. No meal worth that.2
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Oh boy, I knew quite a few people in college who went out with people they met through dating apps to go to restaurants and come home with enough leftovers to keep them fed for a few days. I don't think anything ever happened past the first date. One of the women I was closer with told me that she had been on 200+ dates over the course of a year just because she didn't want to have to spend money on food when she didn't have to. I can't imagine doing it unless I were truly that desperate. It's incredible what people will do out of a perceived necessity.0
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IDK...dating has probably changed quite a bit in the last 20 years which is how long it's been since I dated. I don't recall really having one on one out to dinner type of dates with anyone until we had kind of figured out interest on each others part going forward. Particularly in college, friends and friends of friends tended to hang out in the same circles...so you would see the same people at the favorite watering hole for Thursday night happy hour, or the same people at such and such's Saturday night party, etc...so that's usually how I met and got to know someone, and then we'd go on a date if there seemed to be mutual interest.
I would find it personally very awkward sitting across from someone in a restaurant and barely knowing them, or only knowing them from a dating site or something...which I don't even think was a thing when I was dating. I really have no friggin clue how I'd go about dating these days.1 -
The saying “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch” comes to mind 2
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cmriverside wrote: »Same as bootie calls...
two words...
Consenting adults.
Just keep expectations in check regardless of your Y chromosome status.
Well, I think food dates are different from booty calls.- For booty calls presumably both parties know the nature of the thing.
- I believe it is unethical for a woman to accept a free meal from a man who she knows is interested in pursuing a relationship with her if she knows she is uninterested in him.
I'll add some definitions in case people aren't up on this slang:
Merriam Webster
Definition of booty call
slang
: a communication (such as a phone call or text message) by which a person arranges a sexual encounter with someone
A booty call—where one partner is summoned for sex usually by text message by another …
Urban Dictionary
booty call
A late night summons -- often made via telephone -- to arrange clandestine sexual liaisons on an ad hoc basis.2 -
Well, I'm married so this doesn't currently apply to me, but I wouldn't do this. 1. I'm generally not the kind of person who likes to use someone, because I wouldn't want someone to do this to me. 2. It feels icky and wrong. 3. It could be dangerous if you did this to the wrong kind of person. I might make an exception if the person was a real jerk and/or had wronged me in some way, and kept insisting even after I declined. However, even in that scenario I probably wouldn't knowingly do it, because that's just the sort of person where something could go terribly wrong.
This DOES remind me of a kind of funny story of when I did have this thought once back in my early 20's. I was fairly new in town, and the personal trainer at the gym I worked out started chatting me up one day. I could tell he was interested, but also that he wasn't really my type. It wasn't his attractiveness, but more so his attitude--he just seemed too cocky for my taste. Anyway, he asked if I wanted to go get something to eat, and feeling kind of on the spot I said yes. I WAS thinking "hey, at least I'd get a free meal."
Well, that backfired. I ordered a meal and drink, he just ordered a beer. When the check came, I did get my purse out but expected him to offer to pay....nope, not a word. He DID offer to pay the tip, which if I remember correctly just barely covered his beer. I mean, maybe he was a struggling personal trainer, but I was a struggling grad student! Here's the really funny thing, though: we both drove separately since we were both at the gym at the time , plus I literally just met him. I followed him and on the way there, he just HAD to stop to get his car washed at one of those nice car wash places! Maybe that's where he spent his cash? Who knows?! Even though he asked me out again, I think my roommate told me to come up with a story like I got together with my ex, just so it wouldn't be AS awkward when I saw him at the gym. Anyway, after that I don't think I ever said yes to a date thinking at least I'd get a free meal out of it!3 -
I'm pretty introverted and shy so dating has always been a bit of a nightmare for me anyway, and I can't imagine anything worse than going for dinner on a first date. Most of my first dates have involved some kind of shared activity like a walk, or just a coffee. Even at my poorest, living on peanut butter sandwiches, I would never have considered feigning interest in someone to get a free meal.
I know my friend's daughter, a particularly attractive young woman in her early 20s, bragged about never having to buy a drink when she went to a bar. I guess it is common for young men to send over drinks to tables of lovely young women in the hope of impressing one of them. Not quite the same thing since there is no communication or understanding between the parties regarding expectations.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I think Helen Gurley Brown went so far as to say that a woman who paid for ANYTHING when a man was willing to pick up the bill was stupid.
As a young woman, I was much influenced by HGB. Much of her advice still holds true. Currently rereading "Having It All."
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Back in the mid 60's I accepted dinner from a much older man (I was 17 or 18 and he was well over 50) purely for the free food. Yep, I still feel bad about it all these years later.4
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Last time I dated this was still the societal norm. The woman was definitely not taking advantage of the man, it's just the way it was.
Good thing I'm not dating, now. Faux pas city!3 -
Does going out for a meal with a guy that you've told flat out multiple time that you're not interested in anything other than friendship, and they keep asking you out repeatedly apparently under the delusion that a romantic restaurant will change your mind, and eventually in a moment of weakness (and the secret hope that when it doesn't work they'll finally give up), you say yes, count as a foodie call?
Does going out for a meal with a guy who you think of as a friend after you bought them an inexpensive fast food meal when they claimed they didn't have any money on them, and then they insist that you let them pay you back, count as a foodie call?
If so, yes, I've done a foodie call. If those guys chose later to feel aggrieved, I'd say it's on them.5 -
spinnerdell wrote: »Back in the mid 60's I accepted dinner from a much older man (I was 17 or 18 and he was well over 50) purely for the free food. Yep, I still feel bad about it all these years later.
I don't think you should, especially if you were 17. If he was expecting a romantic relationship with a 17 year old, he was wrong. If he wasn't, and just wanted to buy you a meal and talk for a while, you didn't do anything wrong. Be a little kinder to your 17 year old self. (I'm assuming you were polite to him.)3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »spinnerdell wrote: »Back in the mid 60's I accepted dinner from a much older man (I was 17 or 18 and he was well over 50) purely for the free food. Yep, I still feel bad about it all these years later.
I don't think you should, especially if you were 17. If he was expecting a romantic relationship with a 17 year old, he was wrong. If he wasn't, and just wanted to buy you a meal and talk for a while, you didn't do anything wrong. Be a little kinder to your 17 year old self. (I'm assuming you were polite to him.)
I was polite but dishonest, not so much in what I said, but in what I didn't say- that I had no romantic interest in him. It wasn't a fancy meal, just a corner cafe, but it loomed large at that time of struggle in my life.3 -
I would never do this as I prefer to eat by myself.3
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"...a foodie call occurs when a person, despite their lack of romantic attraction to someone, agrees to go on a date just to get a free meal
So basically escort service/prostitution except the payment is a meal instead of cash.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »"...a foodie call occurs when a person, despite their lack of romantic attraction to someone, agrees to go on a date just to get a free meal
So basically escort service/prostitution except the payment is a meal instead of cash.
Not really at all. No going with them anywhere, no activities involved. You meet in a restaurant, have a meal, and separate. Doesn't meet your statement at all.5
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