How much calories should I be eating
Replies
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The only significant difference being that MFP's NEAT system is more precise about it. If you do two hours of heavy duty exercise on Monday, you will get a lot more cals than on Tuesday, when you lay around all day on the couch watching TV. With TDEEcalculator.net, you are forced to ballpark an average of activity across time, and that's likely to be less accurate, with the upside that you can eat the same calories every day and not fuss with adjusting your calories-in target.
I don't see MFP and TDEE calculator as mutually exclusive. I can calculate my calorie needs with TDEE calculator. Which will give me either the exact same number as MFP because it uses the same formula (Mifflin St Jeor). Or it gives me an even more exact number when I can provide my body fat % (Katch-McArdle). Then I put that number from my TDEE calculation as a goal in MFP. Now I can use MFP's NEAT system with a more precise base line.
That doesn't make sense if a TDEE calculator and MFP give the same number as there should be the difference of someone's average exercise calorie burn.
Putting in a goal that already includes average exercise and then adding exercise again on the day also doesn't make sense as that would be double counting. For me that would create a divergence of over 3,500 a week.1 -
In general to feel satiated within calorie limits, increase the fat/protein ratio against carbs. You dont have to go all the way to keto but by putting in more fat/protein it should be easier to not feel hungry. Mind you it is hardly a rule that works for everyone, carbs are kind of addictive but if nothing else works it is worth a try.
From reading lots of posts here, I've come to think that satiety is pretty individual.
What you say is true for you (and some others, I'm sure), but personally I don't find fat very filling at all. For me, protein tends to be satiating, but I also need volume, and that includes boatloads of veggies/fruits that do tend to have carb content. Beans (the dried/cooked type), for example, are very filling for me. I have no signs of "carb addiction", whatever that is, AFAIK.
In food satiety research, regular whole boiled white potatoes were found to be one of the most filling foods, across a range of people, and of course potatoes have carbs. For me, another filling food is oatmeal, also a pretty carb-y food.
OP, experimenting is a good idea. Try new macro distributions, or new food choices, or different timing of meals/snacks, individually for a couple of days at a time, see how things go. In general, even when not doing an intentional experiment, notice days or times when you feel relatively more full or more hungry, and look at your life patterns to see whether you can figure out the reason. It may be food choice or timing, but it can also be things like sleep quality, stress, boredom, social triggers, anxiety, hydration and more.
Understanding how your own body behaves is very powerful, when it comes to personalizing weight management and nutrition, making it more sustainable. Of course, getting ideas to try from other people can be helpful, but our experiences may not apply to you, and that's fine.
Research seems to support the idea that for many/most people, less-processed foods tend to be more filling than highly-processed foods; and that protein is filling for many.
This is a list of specific foods' "satiety index" from research (of people's subjective sense of fullness):
http://ernaehrungsdenkwerkstatt.de/fileadmin/user_upload/EDWText/TextElemente/Ernaehrungswissenschaft/Naehrstoffe/Saettigung_Lebensmittel_Satiety_Index.pdf
The link is in German, but the list is in English, and the PDF contains some information from the research study (in English and German).
This is not the only study of food choice and satiation, but it's the one I know of that rated a list of specific foods. Others have been more about comparing more/less processed foods, and that sort of thing.
The funny thing is when I think about carbs, automatically bread, sugar, pasta come to mind. Not tomato, apple, or beans, or potato. I would say maybe same carbs are better than others, the problem is a lot of people may put all the different carbs under one umbrella. If beans or potato are good bread or sugar must be good too, easy to convince oneself as probably most love a good bread or cake, including me, LOL.0 -
That doesn't make sense if a TDEE calculator and MFP give the same number as there should be the difference of someone's average exercise calorie burn.
Putting in a goal that already includes average exercise and then adding exercise again on the day also doesn't make sense as that would be double counting. For me that would create a divergence of over 3,500 a week.
Not sure what you mean?
If you use MFP to calculate your calorie goal (https://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/change_goals_guided) then it will give you the same result as with a TDEE calculator and set that as your daily goal.
Example:- If I add my data (height, weight, age etc.), the activity level "sedentary" and the goal to loose 0,5kg/week then MFP will set my goal to 1660kcal/day and the TDEE calculator will set it to 1661kcal.
- If I change the activity level to "lightly active" MFP will set my goal to 1920kcal and the TDEE calculator will set it to 1928kcal.
- If I change the activity level to "active" in MFP and "moderate" in TDEE (TDEE offers more activity levels, so they start to differ here) I will get 2280kcal from MFP and 2237kcal from the TDEE calculator.
- etc.
As you can see the numbers are virtually the same. This is no surprise as they use exactly the same formula (Mifflin St Jeor). So it doesn't make any difference wether you use MFP to calculate your goal or you use the TDEE calculator and to set your goal manually (which you can do directly here: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/my_goals).
So why do I like the TDEE calculator?
MFP only gives me the goal, e.g. 1660kcal. That's it. No more information.
TDEE gives me the same goal but also additional information: especially my BMR and the needs at every activity level.
It also shows me the macro breakdown for a moderate, low or high carb diet, my BMI, ideal weight, maximum muscular potential etc.
The TDEE gives me the same goal but adds just a little bit more details and transparency.
Is this relevant to set your goal in MFP? No. You can use MFP or TDEE to set your goal. It is the exact same number. (Unless you know your body fat%. Then the TDEE calculator can actually determine a more accurate goal.)
Once you set your goal in MFP you'll work with your exercise calories. But that has nothing to do with how you calculated your goal in the first place.
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That doesn't make sense if a TDEE calculator and MFP give the same number as there should be the difference of someone's average exercise calorie burn.
Putting in a goal that already includes average exercise and then adding exercise again on the day also doesn't make sense as that would be double counting. For me that would create a divergence of over 3,500 a week.
Not sure what you mean?
If you use MFP to calculate your calorie goal (https://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/change_goals_guided) then it will give you the same result as with a TDEE calculator and set that as your daily goal.
Example:- If I add my data (height, weight, age etc.), the activity level "sedentary" and the goal to loose 0,5kg/week then MFP will set my goal to 1660kcal/day and the TDEE calculator will set it to 1661kcal.
- If I change the activity level to "lightly active" MFP will set my goal to 1920kcal and the TDEE calculator will set it to 1928kcal.
- If I change the activity level to "active" in MFP and "moderate" in TDEE (TDEE offers more activity levels, so they start to differ here) I will get 2280kcal from MFP and 2237kcal from the TDEE calculator.
- etc.
As you can see the numbers are virtually the same. This is no surprise as they use exactly the same formula (Mifflin St Jeor). So it doesn't make any difference wether you use MFP to calculate your goal or you use the TDEE calculator and to set your goal manually (which you can do directly here: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/my_goals).
So why do I like the TDEE calculator?
MFP only gives me the goal, e.g. 1660kcal. That's it. No more information.
TDEE gives me the same goal but also additional information: especially my BMR and the needs at every activity level.
It also shows me the macro breakdown for a moderate, low or high carb diet, my BMI, ideal weight, maximum muscular potential etc.
The TDEE gives me the same goal but adds just a little bit more details and transparency.
Is this relevant to set your goal in MFP? No. You can use MFP or TDEE to set your goal. It is the exact same number. (Unless you know your body fat%. Then the TDEE calculator can actually determine a more accurate goal.)
Once you set your goal in MFP you'll work with your exercise calories. But that has nothing to do with how you calculated your goal in the first place.
The point we are trying to make:
In a TDEE calculator your activity level INCLUDES exercise. In MFP (NEAT-method) it does not. Therefore the numbers are NOT the same, unless you don't exercise.
If you include exercise in your TDEE calculation (as you should) and then use that number as your calorie goal in MFP, you can't add exercise on top of that in MFP or you will be double counting.
If you want to use the TDEE calculator as more accurate way of calculating your NEAT (not including exercise in the activity level), you're not using the calculator as intended, but you can use the number as your calorie goal in MFP and then add exercise on top of that.1 -
That doesn't make sense if a TDEE calculator and MFP give the same number as there should be the difference of someone's average exercise calorie burn.
Putting in a goal that already includes average exercise and then adding exercise again on the day also doesn't make sense as that would be double counting. For me that would create a divergence of over 3,500 a week.
Not sure what you mean?
If you use MFP to calculate your calorie goal (https://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/change_goals_guided) then it will give you the same result as with a TDEE calculator and set that as your daily goal.
Example:- If I add my data (height, weight, age etc.), the activity level "sedentary" and the goal to loose 0,5kg/week then MFP will set my goal to 1660kcal/day and the TDEE calculator will set it to 1661kcal.
- If I change the activity level to "lightly active" MFP will set my goal to 1920kcal and the TDEE calculator will set it to 1928kcal.
- If I change the activity level to "active" in MFP and "moderate" in TDEE (TDEE offers more activity levels, so they start to differ here) I will get 2280kcal from MFP and 2237kcal from the TDEE calculator.
- etc.
As you can see the numbers are virtually the same. This is no surprise as they use exactly the same formula (Mifflin St Jeor). So it doesn't make any difference wether you use MFP to calculate your goal or you use the TDEE calculator and to set your goal manually (which you can do directly here: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/my_goals).
So why do I like the TDEE calculator?
MFP only gives me the goal, e.g. 1660kcal. That's it. No more information.
TDEE gives me the same goal but also additional information: especially my BMR and the needs at every activity level.
It also shows me the macro breakdown for a moderate, low or high carb diet, my BMI, ideal weight, maximum muscular potential etc.
The TDEE gives me the same goal but adds just a little bit more details and transparency.
Is this relevant to set your goal in MFP? No. You can use MFP or TDEE to set your goal. It is the exact same number. (Unless you know your body fat%. Then the TDEE calculator can actually determine a more accurate goal.)
Once you set your goal in MFP you'll work with your exercise calories. But that has nothing to do with how you calculated your goal in the first place.
What I mean is very simple.
A TDEE calculator includes both purposeful exercise and activity in its daily goal.
MyFitnessPal ONLY includes activity.
If the numbers work out the same they really shouldn't unless you do zero exercise. You have just got lucky with the BMR multipliers hidden behind very different exercise descriptors in your site's categories versus the activity descriptors here.
See the APPS tab here if you want to see your BMR estimate used in calculations, not that BMR is useful on its own unless you are bed-bound.
Your example TDEE site actually has really, really poor descriptors which focus solely on exercise which would mean two people who are equal exercisers but one person who is sedentary outside of exercise and one person with a highly physical job would get the same calories which is plainly daft. Sailrabbit is a far better example of a TDEE site.
TDEE sites overall aren't actually better than separating out exercise as type, intensity and duration of exercise aren't known up front. e.g. three sessions of exercise for me could be 3hrs and 750cals or 9hrs and 1800cals.
Out of interest ran my numbers on TDEEcalculator and got 2695 which is woefully short of my actual maintenance calories. MFP gives me 2556 + exercise calories. A short bike ride today was 828 cals so you can see that's a massive difference.1 -
In a TDEE calculator your activity level INCLUDES exercise. In MFP (NEAT-method) it does not.
I think now I understand where you're coming from.
But the activity level in mfp are nothing else than workouts in TDEE.
There is no difference if I exercise moderatly or work as a carpenter. Both activities will raise my TDEE.
Both activity levels in MFP and TDEE are nothing but BMR x activity-level-factor. You just need to figure out which factor represents your activities best.
I prefer TDEE because it shows me my BMR and my sedentary needs. I can use those values as a baseline to navigate my calorie needs.If you want to use the TDEE calculator as more accurate way of calculating your NEAT (not including exercise in the activity level),
Thisyou're not using the calculator as intended
Well. If it works ...
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Think you are still missing the point, you clearly understand about BMR multipliers but here's a couple of real examples of how that particular TDEE site is very flawed.
My daughter is currently stuck at home, very sedentary due to being furloughed but is doing some moderate exercise 3 days a week.
When she goes back to her active job and still doing the same volume of exercise her calories would remain the same unless she thinks "ah, when they say exercise they really mean something different and I have to pretend I'm doing more exercise." Quite how you equate a full time active job to exercise sessions would be total guesswork.
She would pick 3-5 exercise sessions a week despite her exercise being very low calorie burn (mostly yoga), which could be massively different to someone doing five strenuous or long duration cardio sessions a week, factor of ten entirely possible.
My son has a highly active job (construction) 5 or 6 days a week but using that site would pick light exercise once or twice a week and get no credit for the huge calorie expenditure from his work. He would have to somehow guess that "elite athlete" might also mean someone running barrows of cement all day long.
Using your example of a carpenter or moderate exerciser being the same - so what about a carpenter that also exercises? MFP would catch that combination but a carpenter using TDEEcalulator would have to fudge it by selecting the "wrong" exercise level.
That really is a poor site, making MFP look good is quite an achievement!1 -
I'm in a similar position as you where I have dropped calories, didn't see great results and tried to drop them again. Here's what has helped me and hopefully helps you as well.
I remind myself that it's a lifestyle changes and not a sprint to my goal weight. It has to be sustainable.
Look at your average weight loss trend over time using the graph on MFP. If it's flat, increase exercise or decrease calories. If it's decreasing your doing it right!
TDEE calculators (estimators) are a starting point. Don't stress over which one is the most accurate. Pick a daily calorie goal, stick to it and adjust it based on your results over two weeks or so until you're averaging -1 lb/week
Finally, I budget calories for snacks to avoid wanting to eat everything I see.
I hope this helps, and good luck on achieving your goals.1 -
In general to feel satiated within calorie limits, increase the fat/protein ratio against carbs. You dont have to go all the way to keto but by putting in more fat/protein it should be easier to not feel hungry. Mind you it is hardly a rule that works for everyone, carbs are kind of addictive but if nothing else works it is worth a try.
From reading lots of posts here, I've come to think that satiety is pretty individual.
What you say is true for you (and some others, I'm sure), but personally I don't find fat very filling at all. For me, protein tends to be satiating, but I also need volume, and that includes boatloads of veggies/fruits that do tend to have carb content. Beans (the dried/cooked type), for example, are very filling for me. I have no signs of "carb addiction", whatever that is, AFAIK.
In food satiety research, regular whole boiled white potatoes were found to be one of the most filling foods, across a range of people, and of course potatoes have carbs. For me, another filling food is oatmeal, also a pretty carb-y food.
OP, experimenting is a good idea. Try new macro distributions, or new food choices, or different timing of meals/snacks, individually for a couple of days at a time, see how things go. In general, even when not doing an intentional experiment, notice days or times when you feel relatively more full or more hungry, and look at your life patterns to see whether you can figure out the reason. It may be food choice or timing, but it can also be things like sleep quality, stress, boredom, social triggers, anxiety, hydration and more.
Understanding how your own body behaves is very powerful, when it comes to personalizing weight management and nutrition, making it more sustainable. Of course, getting ideas to try from other people can be helpful, but our experiences may not apply to you, and that's fine.
Research seems to support the idea that for many/most people, less-processed foods tend to be more filling than highly-processed foods; and that protein is filling for many.
This is a list of specific foods' "satiety index" from research (of people's subjective sense of fullness):
http://ernaehrungsdenkwerkstatt.de/fileadmin/user_upload/EDWText/TextElemente/Ernaehrungswissenschaft/Naehrstoffe/Saettigung_Lebensmittel_Satiety_Index.pdf
The link is in German, but the list is in English, and the PDF contains some information from the research study (in English and German).
This is not the only study of food choice and satiation, but it's the one I know of that rated a list of specific foods. Others have been more about comparing more/less processed foods, and that sort of thing.
The funny thing is when I think about carbs, automatically bread, sugar, pasta come to mind. Not tomato, apple, or beans, or potato. I would say maybe same carbs are better than others, the problem is a lot of people may put all the different carbs under one umbrella. If beans or potato are good bread or sugar must be good too, easy to convince oneself as probably most love a good bread or cake, including me, LOL.
If someone doesn't understand the many differences between beans and table sugar although both contain carbohydrates, it seems like enhancing nutritional understanding is the solution, not continuing to promote the myth that foods with carbohydrates can't be filling.5 -
In a TDEE calculator your activity level INCLUDES exercise. In MFP (NEAT-method) it does not.
I think now I understand where you're coming from.
But the activity level in mfp are nothing else than workouts in TDEE.
There is no difference if I exercise moderatly or work as a carpenter. Both activities will raise my TDEE.
Both activity levels in MFP and TDEE are nothing but BMR x activity-level-factor. You just need to figure out which factor represents your activities best.
I prefer TDEE because it shows me my BMR and my sedentary needs. I can use those values as a baseline to navigate my calorie needs.If you want to use the TDEE calculator as more accurate way of calculating your NEAT (not including exercise in the activity level),
Thisyou're not using the calculator as intended
Well. If it works ...
Your TDEE calculator - which I'll mention is from a 1919 study by Harris of the same BMR formula.
Even if you don't start with his BMR formula, tdee multipliers still from 1919 study.
Also, MPF has the Mifflin BMR calc to show you your BMR. Does it change much knowing what it is clearly each time you look?
Because no - the activity level in MFP is not the same as the exercise level in your TDEE calc.
You getting the exact same figures means using something wrong, because even sedentary is 1.2 on theirs and 1.25 on MFP.
Take your physical stats in your TDEE calc.
Let's say you are a family person with kids, a mail carrier walking 6 hrs daily, and you exercise 3 x weekly for 1 hr each time.
What's your estimated TDEE?
Now you are a single person, desk jockey for work, come home and game or watch media nights and weekends, but still exercise 3 x weekly for 1 hr each time.
What's your estimated TDEE?
Or try this one in your TDEE calc.
You workout 4 x weekly doing intense spin bike classes for 1 hr each.
or
You workout 4 x weekly walking around your neighborhood for 1 hr each.
What is TDEE in each case?
MFP for it's levels used much more recent studies from WHO in 1985, and Durnin, Passmore in 1967, and Bubb, Martin, Howley 1985. I think there were more but can't find MFP's info page now when they changed, that's what I had noted prior.
You do have enough knowledge as to how the systems work with BMR and multipliers - but you are lacking in what each is using to see the difference.
And to this topics point - throwing out a method not using the tool already being used will lead to confusion and you are wrong, flat out wrong - unless you explain your recommendation for using it differently.
Just because you can grab that wrench and use it as a hammer slightly, doesn't mean it's a hammer.
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