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Mention it or don’t? How should I phrase it?

124

Replies

  • Posts: 1,365 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    As I have gotten older though I also realize that appearance is one of the least interesting things about a person. It is subjective, temporary, and largely out of the control of the person. You may be one of the people that has genetics that allow you to align for a significant portion of your life with cultural values of beauty but people will still usually say "he/she looks good FOR THEIR AGE." The rest of us can lose weight, tone up, and we will look good compared to other people but I have no interest in winning the comparison game. I want to feel good for me and be able to do the things I want to do for as long as I can do them. I was once always the largest person in the room now I am not and some other person has to deal with it AND I HATE THAT FOR THEM.

    This is exactly why nearly all of my appearance-related compliments (which I usually reserve for friends) are about something they chose and thus is within their control, like a piece of clothing, make-up choice or hairdo. Thanks for verbalizing the aspect of control over one’s appearance in a way I wasn’t able to.
  • Posts: 7,042 Member
    hipari wrote: »

    This is exactly why nearly all of my appearance-related compliments (which I usually reserve for friends) are about something they chose and thus is within their control, like a piece of clothing, make-up choice or hairdo. Thanks for verbalizing the aspect of control over one’s appearance in a way I wasn’t able to.

    Weight loss can be 'borderline' between those two, no? In the sense that weight loss can be the consequence of hard work/discipline... so commenting on it is acknowledging the work someone has put in? (Depending on the context of course, on the precise wording, etc. it might or might not be appropriate)
  • Posts: 8,940 Member
    Lietchi wrote: »

    Weight loss can be 'borderline' between those two, no? In the sense that weight loss can be the consequence of hard work/discipline... so commenting on it is acknowledging the work someone has put in? (Depending on the context of course, on the precise wording, etc. it might or might not be appropriate)

    If someone is actively trying to lose weight I would still steer clear of appearance and celebrate their weight loss either in pounds if they mention it, or NSVs. If they just appear to have lost weight I don't think I would mention it.

    There is nothing wrong with losing weight for vanity or with vanity in combination with health and fitness initiatives but I think the vanity portion should mostly be between you and your mirror (assuming you have a healthy perspective).

    External validation of appearance can be a roller coaster while a person is still losing. When I was still in the chainsaw phase of my weight loss there were plenty of times I would get compliments one day and the next I might either catch an insult or that look on someone face where they aren't thinking "holy cow" they are thinking "he's a holy cow." Since I have been resting near vanity pound range for a few months I have actually heard people talking behind my back again. The previous weight loss is "old news" and just because I am no longer obese I am still overweight and worthy of some gossip. I don't care but it does make me avoid adding to the deal where we score a person higher on appearance because their scale numbers are heading south.

    I know a young lady now that is a truly beautiful person through and through and she does carry extra weight. If it was not for comfort and the increase risks of health problems down the road I wouldn't think she should ever need to lose. However, comfort is an issue and there is the little fact that she is in a "secret" relationship with a young man. When you see how she looks at him you know she is halfway down the aisle. When he figures out what she already knows, or I tell him I know about them and smack him upside the head, then that may put pregnancy on the table and it is better for her to lose weight for that as well. Otherwise I don't think health is a concern for her at her age for another 15 or 20 years but there is no reason to put it off.
  • Posts: 34,491 Member
    edited May 2021
    <snip> When you see how she looks at him you know she is halfway down the aisle. When he figures out what she already knows, or I tell him I know about them and smack him upside the head, then that may put pregnancy on the table and it is better for her to lose weight for that as well.

    Wait.

    Did you just bring in pregnancy as a (slightly overweight, and more-into-him-than-he's-into-her) woman's way to trap a man into marriage? Please tell me that's not what you're saying, Novus.

    ...and how is your smacking him upside the head or people otherwise finding out about them related to pregnancy? But hey, at least you're looking out for her weight-loss needs/healthy non-existent baby.

    I don't know what to make of that entire post...TBH
  • Posts: 34,491 Member

    I think the statement was more like "Once he finally figures out that she's into him, they'll become intimate, and that makes pregnancy a possibility" and less like "She's going to try to trap him into marriage using pregnancy."

    Okay.

    I'm certainly glad Novus is in charge of their future/maybe relationship, I would never have ever thought of any of that. :neutral:
  • Posts: 7,042 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »

    If someone is actively trying to lose weight I would still steer clear of appearance and celebrate their weight loss either in pounds if they mention it, or NSVs. If they just appear to have lost weight I don't think I would mention it.

    There is nothing wrong with losing weight for vanity or with vanity in combination with health and fitness initiatives but I think the vanity portion should mostly be between you and your mirror (assuming you have a healthy perspective).

    External validation of appearance can be a roller coaster while a person is still losing. When I was still in the chainsaw phase of my weight loss there were plenty of times I would get compliments one day and the next I might either catch an insult or that look on someone face where they aren't thinking "holy cow" they are thinking "he's a holy cow." Since I have been resting near vanity pound range for a few months I have actually heard people talking behind my back again. The previous weight loss is "old news" and just because I am no longer obese I am still overweight and worthy of some gossip. I don't care but it does make me avoid adding to the deal where we score a person higher on appearance because their scale numbers are heading south.

    I know a young lady now that is a truly beautiful person through and through and she does carry extra weight. If it was not for comfort and the increase risks of health problems down the road I wouldn't think she should ever need to lose. However, comfort is an issue and there is the little fact that she is in a "secret" relationship with a young man. When you see how she looks at him you know she is halfway down the aisle. When he figures out what she already knows, or I tell him I know about them and smack him upside the head, then that may put pregnancy on the table and it is better for her to lose weight for that as well. Otherwise I don't think health is a concern for her at her age for another 15 or 20 years but there is no reason to put it off.

    Not sure how that relates to my post (the vanity aspect). I was talking about validation for hard work (which is of course reflected in our physical appearance in the case of weight loss), especially where large losses are concerned.
  • Posts: 10,968 Member
    I might just be wired funny, but I've never seen complements as a source of validation. Maybe more like recognition of validness?
  • Posts: 8,940 Member
    edited May 2021
    Lietchi wrote: »

    Not sure how that relates to my post (the vanity aspect). I was talking about validation for hard work (which is of course reflected in our physical appearance in the case of weight loss), especially where large losses are concerned.

    I said vanity could be a primary or a joint goal so I thought it was clear. If a person is losing only for vanity then they may want compliments but I still think that is between them and their mirror.

    Weight loss is reflected in how the person feels, their scale results, their NSVs, and yes appearance but appearance need not ever be mentioned to celebrate someone's hard work.

    I don't know why I should judge a person's previous appearance as worse than their current appearance by saying they now look better/fantastic/great etc. I think there are potential problems with it and the most obvious one is that they might regain their weight and then what happens when you run into them again?
  • Posts: 8,940 Member
    I might just be wired funny, but I've never seen complements as a source of validation. Maybe more like recognition of validness?

    I am not sure it matters how I am wired. I try to view things as how they might potentially be taken by someone other than myself.
  • Posts: 8,940 Member

    I think the statement was more like "Once he finally figures out that she's into him, they'll become intimate, and that makes pregnancy a possibility" and less like "She's going to try to trap him into marriage using pregnancy."

    I didn't see this exchange. He is into her too. She just appears to be further along than he is currently in the relationship. Sometimes one person "knows" before the other. Their chemistry is undeniable so I am betting it goes the distance.

    There would be no trapping. There is reason to believe there would not even be sex before marriage.
  • Posts: 8,940 Member
    edited May 2021
    How many people think it's ok to pretend to be full of yourself, if you do it in a way that's so over the top it's obviously satire? That nonsense that comes out of me makes me chuckle and I hope someone else smiles at the absurdity too.

    The only time I can be sure that anything I say is anything but nonsense is if it is backed by wisdom and intelligence that far exceeds my own. My opinions can never be backed up. If they have value it is minimal and only to people who know me well enough to know my thought process. When I do encourage a total stranger I almost always say something along the lines of "Well I am a stranger to you so it may not be worth much but I think you are doing great."

    We always have to be careful about opinions and their sources. How often do we see someone come through here with a ridiculous diet given to them by their personal trainer? That doesn't mean all PTs will give bad eating advice but it does mean just because they may be an "authority" in one area doesn't mean they are in others. It also means that validating an opinion because the person giving it to you has the body/results you seek doesn't mean they got there sensibly or even with the advice/opinions they are giving you.

    For this reason I try to remember when I am with people who do not know me and did not seek opinions and help that my opinions do not actually need to be shared because they SHOULD have little to no value to the person hearing them. I also have to remember that the way I got here may be decidedly different from the way another person gets from point A to point B and I am never an expert on anyone by myself. Sometimes I am decidedly unimpressed with my expertise on myself.

    We should also keep in mind that judging the results without knowing the method could be problematic. A person could be losing weight in a very unhealthy way and encouraging them with kind words might be just the motivation they need to keep going until their hair starts to fall out - or worse. They could even have a developing or full-blown eating disorder.

    The blessing/curse of seeing things from multiple angles may mean that I overthink things but I am the way I was designed. Once I throw a stone in the pond I don't just watch the big ripples, I try to watch them all.
  • Posts: 5,650 Member
    edited May 2021
    *deleted*
  • Posts: 5,650 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »

    FWIW posting a screen shot of a words definition could be construed as condescending. I was originally taken aback, but then just found it amusing, given that you actually did use the word incorrectly. Projecting is the correct word.

    I could have just let this go, but given the nuance of the discussion, I think that the words that are used do matter.

    (I am closing in 500 disagrees on 700-ish posts so knock yourselves out :wink: )

    So you decided to revisit a post from 4 pages ago? Gotcha.
  • Posts: 961 Member
    ReenieHJ wrote: »

    Hugged back :)

    People are all over the weight loss thing, or worrying about cancer or trying not to sound like a 'come on' etc., but to me a simple comment such as 'you look great' holds no sinister thinking.
    Especially enjoyed your last statement.

    I bet OP never had a clue where his question would take us. :)

    I agree with everything, especially your last statement.

    It actually got me thinking: how WOULD I react if a male acquaintance gave me a compliment such as "You look great! I can tell you've been working hard" at the gym. There are actually 2 male acquaintances I know from my current and former gym: a coworker's husband (also a PT there) and my daughter's friend's dad. If either one of them said that to me, I have to admit it would catch me a bit off guard and probably a bit uncomfortable initially (although admittedly I'm usually somewhat uncomfortable when anybody gives me compliments). Despite any evidence to the contrary there would be a part of me that probably thought: "Are they checking me out? Are they secretly into me?" Now, I am not conceited and don't think I'm that great, and pretty average in the looks department. So, what is it? It's my own implicit bias making me believe that--both from past experiences and what seems to be a large part of society that somehow believes a man must be into a woman or is exerting his power as a man if he says something like that. I know my own husband would never say anything like that (he is socially awkward, though), and would probably think the guy is into me. If a woman said that to me, of course I wouldn't think anything like that. Still uncomfortable a bit, but not with these thoughts afterwards.

  • Posts: 5,650 Member
    edited May 2021
    33gail33 wrote: »

    Yeah I am petty like that when someone tries to "school me" with incorrect information.

    Guess it turns out I was more irritated than amused by it.

    Oh well.

    FWIW, it wasn't meant to be condescending. It was meant to support my use of the word, which I still believe to be correct/appropriate given the scenario being discussed.

    But I realize intent doesn't mean much here and I apologize for coming off as condescending.

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