Fiber calories
lmf1012
Posts: 402 Member
So, in doing some basic math on macro to calories, it appears a lot of foods do not count the fiber grams into their calculation of calories. Now, for me, at around 25-30 fiber grams per day, that is roughly 100-120 not being factored into the daily calorie budget. That may not be a lot when you have a lot to lose and a larger deficit to work with, but as we get closer to our goals and precision counts more, it could be impactful.
I have read that non-soluble fiber is not absorbed by the body, hence not calculating the calories. But it seems most of the foods I have used in my diary, to not differentiate between soluble and non-soluble.
My question is... does anyone account for the under calculated calories in their goal or diaries somehow? I would certainly rather overestimate my calorie intake than underestimate.
I have read that non-soluble fiber is not absorbed by the body, hence not calculating the calories. But it seems most of the foods I have used in my diary, to not differentiate between soluble and non-soluble.
My question is... does anyone account for the under calculated calories in their goal or diaries somehow? I would certainly rather overestimate my calorie intake than underestimate.
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Replies
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So, in doing some basic math on macro to calories, it appears a lot of foods do not count the fiber grams into their calculation of calories. Now, for me, at around 25-30 fiber grams per day, that is roughly 100-120 not being factored into the daily calorie budget. That may not be a lot when you have a lot to lose and a larger deficit to work with, but as we get closer to our goals and precision counts more, it could be impactful.
I have read that non-soluble fiber is not absorbed by the body, hence not calculating the calories. But it seems most of the foods I have used in my diary, to not differentiate between soluble and non-soluble.
My question is... does anyone account for the under calculated calories in their goal or diaries somehow? I would certainly rather overestimate my calorie intake than underestimate.
I see that you are in the US. While some countries outside the US handle fiber differently, the entries that come from US food labels will all have total calories, as do the entries for foods that MFP pulled from the USDA database. (There may be some issues with rounding that do not make the numbers match 100%.)
https://fdc.nal.usda.gov
Unfortunately, the green check marks in the MFP database are used for both USER-created entries and ADMIN-created entries that MFP pulled from the USDA database. A green check mark for USER-created entries just means enough people have upvoted the entry - it is not necessarily correct.
To find ADMIN entries for whole foods, I get the syntax from the USDA database and paste that into MFP.
The USDA changed the platform for their database in 2019 and it is unfortunately a little more difficult to use. I use the “SR Legacy” tab - that seems to be what MFP used to pull in entries.2 -
Similar to @kshama2001, when I search for produce and other fresh foods, I add the term "USDA" to the searg (e.g., green beans USDA, spinach raw USDA, etc . .) and that USUALLY brings up at least one option of an admin entry imported directly from the USDA site.
I average 40 - 50 g of fiber a day, and don't account for it any other way.1 -
rosebarnalice wrote: »Similar to @kshama2001, when I search for produce and other fresh foods, I add the term "USDA" to the searg (e.g., green beans USDA, spinach raw USDA, etc . .) and that USUALLY brings up at least one option of an admin entry imported directly from the USDA site.
I average 40 - 50 g of fiber a day, and don't account for it any other way.
The qualifier "USDA" is not on the Admin-entered foods. Those are all user-entered. For whole foods (fruit and vegetables) the best qualifying word I've found is "raw." And if it's something that seems to make sense as multiples, using plurals helps - such as "oranges - raw" not "orange" and "tomatoes - raw" not "tomato," etc.5 -
So, in doing some basic math on macro to calories, it appears a lot of foods do not count the fiber grams into their calculation of calories. Now, for me, at around 25-30 fiber grams per day, that is roughly 100-120 not being factored into the daily calorie budget. That may not be a lot when you have a lot to lose and a larger deficit to work with, but as we get closer to our goals and precision counts more, it could be impactful.
I have read that non-soluble fiber is not absorbed by the body, hence not calculating the calories. But it seems most of the foods I have used in my diary, to not differentiate between soluble and non-soluble.
My question is... does anyone account for the under calculated calories in their goal or diaries somehow? I would certainly rather overestimate my calorie intake than underestimate.
I mostly use US food entries, but occasionally use ones from other countries if they look more accurate overall. I eat 40-50g+ of fiber most days. I've never done anything special to adjust fiber calories. After figuring out experientially how much my base calories deviated from MFP's estimates, my weight loss rate was what I expected based on my intake.
I don't think it's a big factor, personally.
Just a P.S. so you don't assume that "my base calories deviated from MFP's estimates" means I had to eat less than MFP thought, to lose weight, maybe because of the "extra" fiber calories: Nope. I lost too fast at first when I test-drove MFP's estimates - its estimate of my needs was way too low. That's rare, but it can happen. I don't think, in my case, that the reason has anything to do with the fact that I have high fiber intake, but I can't prove it. There's some indication that higher fiber (less refined) foods may have a higher TEF, i.e., that those foods are more biochemically complicated to break down, so the body spends a little more energy to do it. (There's some tiny preliminary research suggesting non-definitively that that might maybe just possibly perhaps be the case. 😉 But I wouldn't count on that, either.)
Honestly, we could drive ourselves mad thinking about all these small differences accountable to food choices . . . I think it's majoring in the minors, pretty much averages out to "close enough". Just my opinion, though. 🤷♀️3 -
It’s more important to be consistent in logging than accurate. If you are consistently 100 calories off in your estimate, over time you will notice in your rate of loss, and can adjust accordingly. Since people aren’t machines and process foods differently, there is always going to be a margin of error in logging. Did that piece of corn pass through without getting digested or not? Who knows? But if you weigh regularly and log consistently, you will be able to get close enough to get results.6
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As far as I know, fiber has 0 or 2 kcal per gram depending on insoluble or soluble.
I just checked an entry for endives (from a Belgian supermarket) and the fiber is included in the calorie count. But my banana entry doesn't seem to include it. Perhaps it depends on how they do their calorie estimates: based on the macros or through actual caloric measurement?
I would hope that would do actual measurements, otherwise alcoholic drinks would calories missing, since alcohol isn't a 'real' macro.1 -
As far as I know, fiber has 0 or 2 kcal per gram depending on insoluble or soluble.
I just checked an entry for endives (from a Belgian supermarket) and the fiber is included in the calorie count. But my banana entry doesn't seem to include it. Perhaps it depends on how they do their calorie estimates: based on the macros or through actual caloric measurement?
I would hope that would do actual measurements, otherwise alcoholic drinks would calories missing, since alcohol isn't a 'real' macro.As far as I know, fiber has 0 or 2 kcal per gram depending on insoluble or soluble.
I just checked an entry for endives (from a Belgian supermarket) and the fiber is included in the calorie count. But my banana entry doesn't seem to include it. Perhaps it depends on how they do their calorie estimates: based on the macros or through actual caloric measurement?
I would hope that would do actual measurements, otherwise alcoholic drinks would calories missing, since alcohol isn't a 'real' macro.
I would hope they'd count alcohol as a pseudo-macro if they were estimating "based on macros". It has about 7 calories per gram.0 -
As far as I know, fiber has 0 or 2 kcal per gram depending on insoluble or soluble.
I just checked an entry for endives (from a Belgian supermarket) and the fiber is included in the calorie count. But my banana entry doesn't seem to include it. Perhaps it depends on how they do their calorie estimates: based on the macros or through actual caloric measurement?
I would hope that would do actual measurements, otherwise alcoholic drinks would calories missing, since alcohol isn't a 'real' macro.As far as I know, fiber has 0 or 2 kcal per gram depending on insoluble or soluble.
I just checked an entry for endives (from a Belgian supermarket) and the fiber is included in the calorie count. But my banana entry doesn't seem to include it. Perhaps it depends on how they do their calorie estimates: based on the macros or through actual caloric measurement?
I would hope that would do actual measurements, otherwise alcoholic drinks would calories missing, since alcohol isn't a 'real' macro.
I would hope they'd count alcohol as a pseudo-macro if they were estimating "based on macros". It has about 7 calories per gram.
Alcohol isn't part of most nutritional labels though (at least not here), so they'd need to base the calories on more than the macros stated on the label, that's what I was thinking of.0 -
As far as I know, fiber has 0 or 2 kcal per gram depending on insoluble or soluble.
I just checked an entry for endives (from a Belgian supermarket) and the fiber is included in the calorie count. But my banana entry doesn't seem to include it. Perhaps it depends on how they do their calorie estimates: based on the macros or through actual caloric measurement?
I would hope that would do actual measurements, otherwise alcoholic drinks would calories missing, since alcohol isn't a 'real' macro.As far as I know, fiber has 0 or 2 kcal per gram depending on insoluble or soluble.
I just checked an entry for endives (from a Belgian supermarket) and the fiber is included in the calorie count. But my banana entry doesn't seem to include it. Perhaps it depends on how they do their calorie estimates: based on the macros or through actual caloric measurement?
I would hope that would do actual measurements, otherwise alcoholic drinks would calories missing, since alcohol isn't a 'real' macro.
I would hope they'd count alcohol as a pseudo-macro if they were estimating "based on macros". It has about 7 calories per gram.
Alcohol isn't part of most nutritional labels though (at least not here), so they'd need to base the calories on more than the macros stated on the label, that's what I was thinking of.
I suppose that's true. About the only "food" I have the contains alcohol is vanilla extract, and it isn't even labeled with calories. Most of the alcohol-containing things I consume list a proof, ABV, or alcohol %, so estimating the alcohol part of the calories is the easy part. 😉
In the US, I don't think the manufacturer would be permitted to ignore alcohol calories in a "food", if it put them outside the accuracy tolerances for labeling . . . though I don't know for sure. They do know how much alcohol is in the product, even if they don't tell us.0 -
This post brings up a thought about the bread that I eat a lot of.
https://extraordinarybites.com/
It's keto bread where it subtracts fiber from the carbs to get "net carb", and I guess that's how they get 30 calories per slice. I'm not keto but really like this bread. Since I have read above and elsewhere that calories are calculated based on the "4-4-9 method", is this bread truly only 30 calories per slice or is it really much higher and they're fibbing? When they advertise these products, are we eating much more calories than is on the label or is the label calorie count correct?
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chris89topher wrote: »This post brings up a thought about the bread that I eat a lot of.
https://extraordinarybites.com/
It's keto bread where it subtracts fiber from the carbs to get "net carb", and I guess that's how they get 30 calories per slice. I'm not keto but really like this bread. Since I have read above and elsewhere that calories are calculated based on the "4-4-9 method", is this bread truly only 30 calories per slice or is it really much higher and they're fibbing? When they advertise these products, are we eating much more calories than is on the label or is the label calorie count correct?
So I've never done keto or low-carb, but I think when it's a certain type of carb (like fiber instead of sugar) it subtracts the fiber from the total carb count? I think the calorie count would still be the same.
I just always assumed fiber was a subcount of the total carb count, which is included in the calculation when counting the total number of calories. In any case, I never gave it a second thought. Of course, I'm one of those who rarely measures (here and then just to check myself) and almost never weighs her food and have still managed to get to a BMI of 20.2 and maintain...0 -
Curious: are calories on labels calculated based on macros or are they measured independently? I've seen more than one case of calories deviating from macros a little bit and I always assumed it was rounding errors + fiber.
For what it's worth, I average 45-50 grams of fiber a day and I use all kinds of labels and entries with all kinds of different formats and calculations. I lost weight (and currently maintaining it) just fine. If you're consistently wrong by a consistent average of calories, you'll be fine. It's easy to calculate the deviation. You will probably want to re-evaluate your calories at some point and adjust anyway if you're losing too fast/too slow.1 -
Calories never add up based on macros. I assume they may be measured independently, but fiber is also not allotted 4 cals per gram for sure if you look at the USDA site or labels.0
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Personally I wouldn't worry about it too much. As already mentioned non soluble fibre isnt broken down in the digestive system, so zero calories. Soluble is broken down however only releases a few calories in the process. Calorie counting is never going to be exact, cooking methods change the calorie content of food and labels on goods are only about 80% accurate. Good luck.0
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Well that is annoying - it never occurred to me that those calories wouldn't be already included in the total.
I also am a little confused by the answers to just not worry about it, since generally the answer to calorie deficit questions is to carefully weigh and measure all foods.1 -
Well that is annoying - it never occurred to me that those calories wouldn't be already included in the total.
I also am a little confused by the answers to just not worry about it, since generally the answer to calorie deficit questions is to carefully weigh and measure all foods.
According to @lemurcat2, they are. Calories are measured independently.0 -
My observation is that fiber that should be counted as calories isn't always counted. And that the majority of products would under count (surprisingly a very few appear to do the opposite for no discernible reason)
I drink negligible alcohol on a yearly basis, so in my (progress accuracy double check) calculations I've often used macros multiplied + 50% fiber as carbs as compared to straight mfp caloric values0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Well that is annoying - it never occurred to me that those calories wouldn't be already included in the total.
I also am a little confused by the answers to just not worry about it, since generally the answer to calorie deficit questions is to carefully weigh and measure all foods.
According to @lemurcat2, they are. Calories are measured independently.
I added a couple of mine up and they don't seem to be included. Maybe it depends on the entry.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Curious: are calories on labels calculated based on macros or are they measured independently? I've seen more than one case of calories deviating from macros a little bit and I always assumed it was rounding errors + fiber.
For what it's worth, I average 45-50 grams of fiber a day and I use all kinds of labels and entries with all kinds of different formats and calculations. I lost weight (and currently maintaining it) just fine. If you're consistently wrong by a consistent average of calories, you'll be fine. It's easy to calculate the deviation. You will probably want to re-evaluate your calories at some point and adjust anyway if you're losing too fast/too slow.
Few years ago when I read through the rules, 2 basic methods for US.
Get your food tested and burned and there's your calories and other items.
Or build your food from already tested foods and their counts.
Both methods mean fiber counts towards calories because they do burn, but in reality your body won't absorb some and some calories really don't count.
Not sure how other countries do it, likely just back out some fiber from the calories for the label.2 -
Not to hijack this thread, but I'm still confused. So if the package on my bread says 30 calories, the carbs are 13 and fiber is 12, which then they advertise as 1 net carb. Is that 30 calories accurate or is it actually higher?? One slice is no big deal yes, but if I eat, say, 6 (don't judge! Lol) it would definitely make a difference. Thoughts?0
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Well that is annoying - it never occurred to me that those calories wouldn't be already included in the total.
I also am a little confused by the answers to just not worry about it, since generally the answer to calorie deficit questions is to carefully weigh and measure all foods.
As I mentioned calorie counting is not a exact science, far from it. Just because a banana has X amount of calories does not mean your body utilizes 100% of those calories. Different foods are broken down and digested differently in the body, they are also broken down differently by different individuals. Thats the reason I said not to worry about it. You can spend hours and hours reading labels and logging macros, however its nowhere near 100% accurate. As for fibre, non soluble contains zero calories, exactly because it's not soluble. Soluble 1/2 calories per gram. Not worth worrying about!0 -
chris89topher wrote: »Not to hijack this thread, but I'm still confused. So if the package on my bread says 30 calories, the carbs are 13 and fiber is 12, which then they advertise as 1 net carb. Is that 30 calories accurate or is it actually higher?? One slice is no big deal yes, but if I eat, say, 6 (don't judge! Lol) it would definitely make a difference. Thoughts?
It would be helpful to know the full nutritional data and portion size, to even have an idea whether or not the calorie count is accurate. (but even then, if we don't know which kind of fiber, it might still be guesswork)0 -
chris89topher wrote: »Not to hijack this thread, but I'm still confused. So if the package on my bread says 30 calories, the carbs are 13 and fiber is 12, which then they advertise as 1 net carb. Is that 30 calories accurate or is it actually higher?? One slice is no big deal yes, but if I eat, say, 6 (don't judge! Lol) it would definitely make a difference. Thoughts?
13g x 4c = 52 calories just in carbs if normal burn in non-human.
So I'm betting they aren't counting the fiber carbs, but there is some fat and protein which should be mentioned to do math with.
They appear to be more accurate than counting fiber carbs that aren't absorbed.0 -
chris89topher wrote: »Not to hijack this thread, but I'm still confused. So if the package on my bread says 30 calories, the carbs are 13 and fiber is 12, which then they advertise as 1 net carb. Is that 30 calories accurate or is it actually higher?? One slice is no big deal yes, but if I eat, say, 6 (don't judge! Lol) it would definitely make a difference. Thoughts?
It would be helpful to know the full nutritional data and portion size, to even have an idea whether or not the calorie count is accurate. (but even then, if we don't know which kind of fiber, it might still be guesswork)
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rheddmobile wrote: »It’s more important to be consistent in logging than accurate. If you are consistently 100 calories off in your estimate, over time you will notice in your rate of loss, and can adjust accordingly. Since people aren’t machines and process foods differently, there is always going to be a margin of error in logging. Did that piece of corn pass through without getting digested or not? Who knows? But if you weigh regularly and log consistently, you will be able to get close enough to get results.
This was the thought I was going to share. I use USDA total calories and do not differentiate fiber type. I eat a lot of fiber. At least I think it's a lot ~30g-40g daily give or take. And it's pretty consistent. So let's say I *think* my TDEE is 80 or 100 Kcal higher than it actually is. As long as the TDEE I'm using consists of ~35 fiber on average, I will maintain at that artificially high TDEE I have observed (that includes fiber).
ETA: Something like that label above with net calories (vs. total calories) would throw off my tracking. I don't eat much packaged food, but I will start paying closer attention as that seems deceptive.1 -
I think I would like to try some of this bread!
0.5g fat and 1 carb = 13 Cal. So 30 Cal includes SOME of the fiber Calories. Whether enough or not is a matter of further research and conjecture.
On the FACE of it it sounds at least partially plausible.
But resistant starch is usually viewed at about 2.5 Cal per gram instead of 4, not zero, so you will not find much more accurate information unless you get their recipe and formula!
And, and I'm sure people will correct me, but, if you continuously eat resistant starch in large quantities won't you eventually train (or select for) gut biome that will become really adept at scavenging the calories?1 -
chris89topher wrote: »Not to hijack this thread, but I'm still confused. So if the package on my bread says 30 calories, the carbs are 13 and fiber is 12, which then they advertise as 1 net carb. Is that 30 calories accurate or is it actually higher?? One slice is no big deal yes, but if I eat, say, 6 (don't judge! Lol) it would definitely make a difference. Thoughts?
13g x 4c = 52 calories just in carbs if normal burn in non-human.
So I'm betting they aren't counting the fiber carbs, but there is some fat and protein which should be mentioned to do math with.
They appear to be more accurate than counting fiber carbs that aren't absorbed.
1g x 4c = 4 c from carbs no fiber
0.5g x 9c = 4.5 c from fat
3g x 4c = 12 c from protein
About 20 cal from just that.
So to reach 30 - they must be counting some of the fiber calories. So perhaps they are being specific with soluble and insoluble type that just isn't displayed. That's pretty good.0 -
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-food-manufacturers/#:~:text=Because carbohydrates contain some fiber,9 Kcal/g for fat.
For the US:
"The Nutrition Labeling and Education Act of 1990 (NLEA) currently dictates what information is presented on food labels. The NLEA requires that the Calorie level placed on a packaged food be calculated from food components. According to the National Data Lab (NDL), most of the calorie values in the USDA and industry food tables are based on an indirect calorie estimation made using the so-called Atwater system. In this system, calories are not determined directly by burning the foods. Instead, the total caloric value is calculated by adding up the calories provided by the energy-containing nutrients: protein, carbohydrate, fat and alcohol. Because carbohydrates contain some fiber that is not digested and utilized by the body, the fiber component is usually subtracted from the total carbohydrate before calculating the calories."
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https://thecounter.org/scientists-calorie-counts-usda-kind/2
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