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Weighing kids in school
Replies
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Weighing children should be done at the doctor's offices as part of their annual exams. Nobody at school needs to have that done. Teach nutrition at school? Fine, great. Teach sports/healthy exercise/fitness, wonderful. But what purpose does it serve to weigh in at school; the schools should already have access to a child's medical records don't they?
Let me add my thoughts about schools and physical fitness as well.
How much benefit do children get in typical gym classes where most kids are standing around watching everybody else, or waiting their turn, etc.? Maybe they do it very differently these days. It'd be more useful if children moved during gym class. 
Must be a different system in your country.
No there aren't annual checkups scheduled at the Doctors for all school age children (doubt that would have happened during COVID-19 times anyway), no schools don't have access to children's medical records as that would be a data protection breach (they will be made aware of risk factors).
Health screening carried out at schools has been happening for generations although the checks have obviously evolved from what mostly have been around diseases of poverty for my parent's generation and the methods have become far more humane. Even the way my generation would have been treated is different to what would be acceptable today.
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I clearly remember having our body tested in our PE class--girls only--my sophomore year of high school. The student teacher used a body caliper and called out the measurements to the student who was keeping track of everyone's. I had actually lost some weight and was actually teetering on developing an eating disorder at the time and could hear that my numbers were lower than most others....but still, horrifying! I realize now how absolutely wrong that was, especially at an age when so many girls are self-conscious about their bodies anyway.
If schools were to weigh kids, it should be done in private. As it is now in our schools, kids need to turn in physicals at like kindergarten, 2nd and 6th grade, which usually includes their BMI. I think it should be up to the child's physician to inform parents that their child is in the overweight range. Having said that, I don't think there's any problem with schools having some curriculum to teach kids healthy habits--not just weight-related, but things like mental and social-emotional health as well. My kids actually have a class called "Healthy Minds" which alternates with their PE, which teaches them just that.
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Weighing children should be done at the doctor's offices as part of their annual exams. Nobody at school needs to have that done. Teach nutrition at school? Fine, great. Teach sports/healthy exercise/fitness, wonderful. But what purpose does it serve to weigh in at school; the schools should already have access to a child's medical records don't they?
Let me add my thoughts about schools and physical fitness as well. How much benefit do children get in typical gym classes where most kids are standing around watching everybody else, or waiting their turn, etc.? Maybe they do it very differently these days. It'd be more useful if children moved during gym class.
I know it was like that when I was in school (especially high school, which was just ridiculous). However, it seems like now at least at the elementary school level, my kids are actually quite active during their gym class. The play the regular movement games, but also stuff like Tabatas and push-ups--which my son bragged he was the only one who could do it correctly because he does them regularly in karate .
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »@cwolfman13 and @rosebarnalice hit the nail on the head. But I would put it in stronger terms:
Any discussions of a person's health (including especially a child) should be done in private and with great compassion and support. A minor child should have a parent present for any medical visit (this is probably the law in the US, although it may be skirted in some instances, unfortunately). Weighing students en-mass and in front of each other could be a life-changing traumatic event-- and not in a good way.
In the US, we have a stated right to medical privacy, and breaking that privacy is illegal. Yes, severely overweight kids know they are so, and have been teased and taunted about it many times. They obviously would change the situation themselves if they could. The reasons they can't are quite complex.
Kids that are unusually tall, short, skinny, or have anything else out of the ordinary are in a similar situation.
Now, when a doctor speaks to a parent and child about that child being overweight, it can also be traumatizing. It should be done with an offer of compassionate treatment.
If you're thinking that's what HIPAA says, that would be inaccurate. I mention this because a lot of people think HIPAA is some generalized right of privacy for medical information. It's not.
I'm unaware of other laws that guarantee medical privacy in some sort of generalized "no one can ask, no one can can tell" way . . . which doesn't mean there are none. (I'm fairly aware of what HIPAA covers, but not other medical records acts that may exist).
If anything, a student's weight, measured in an education institution setting for some related purpose, would be more likely to be considered private and not to be disclosednas non-directory information under FERPA, but that's not a medical privacy law, it's a student records law.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
IMO, that's what annual checkups with the children's Dr. is for.
How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
IMO, that's what annual checkups with the children's Dr. is for.
How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
I thought all of them do. Guess it depends what country you are in. I'm in Canada and my kids always went for annual checkups. Height and weight checks, vaccine updates, general health concerns.
Once they were old enough (like maybe 12-ish?) we did their usual consult, and then I left the room so that they could discuss/ask questions about anything privately with their doctor.2 -
Fidgetbrain wrote: »Yup agree with you both, I was super insecure about my weight at school cause I was a foot taller than the other girls in my class and obvs weighed a lot more even though I was still healthy. You can see if a child is obese without focusing on numbers and IMO it just leads to comparison. Health, nutrition and PE are far more useful than just gathering data and telling kids/their parents that they’re fat
Same. Although I was a tall scrawny beanpole despite eating like the proverbial horse, because clearly I was expending all my calories attaining height rather than fat.
This brought back a memory of doing some kind of fitness testing in gym class, probably 7th or 8th grade. I wasn't a sporty kid or an active kid (I was super clumsy... still am) so I failed miserably, and publicly. I remember one of the tests was a chin-up and just hanging there, unable to lift myself a millimetre. It certainly didn't motivate me to become more active and I never took phys ed classes after they became elective. In fact, it took me almost 40 years to develop an interest in any kind of structured exercise, in part because I always felt I wouldn't do it "right".
Same. I grew to almost my full adult height (5' 10") between grade 7-8 and was like 110 lbs. I remember those fitness tests you had to do, with the gold, silver and bronze. Also got pushed into joining the basketball team, because I was tall so I must be good right? Wrong. lol2 -
Everything I do with weight related issues with either adults or kids is in my approach. I don't like to tell people they are overweight unless I really have to. Rather my approach is always "how do you feel about your current physical stature?" And of course they are going to tell me how they view themselves. Then of course I just offer the help to help them get to their goal.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
IMO, that's what annual checkups with the children's Dr. is for.
How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
My daughter (now 19) had a yearly appointment with her doc all the way thru high school. Of course, we have acceptable health insurance, so everything is covered for the yearly visit. She was also active in sports thru high school (soccer and archery) so she had to have physicals to compete.
As to the original question, I think regular screenings should be done - in private - for all children.1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
IMO, that's what annual checkups with the children's Dr. is for.
How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
I thought all of them do. Guess it depends what country you are in. I'm in Canada and my kids always went for annual checkups. Height and weight checks, vaccine updates, general health concerns.
Once they were old enough (like maybe 12-ish?) we did their usual consult, and then I left the room so that they could discuss/ask questions about anything privately with their doctor.
In theory, the US system of private health insurance and programs like CHIP (children's health insurance program) should result in children being able to see a doctor annually. Based on self-reported household data, it does seem like the US is doing pretty well at meeting that goal: https://wwwn.cdc.gov/NHISDataQueryTool/SHS_child/index.html
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
In Massachusetts, there are medical requirements for attending public school. In my town, you are required to provide a "report of latest physical exam" and a vaccination record, which comes from a physician's office. I've heard lots of stories where the vaccination record becomes difficult to obtain because the family has switched doctors, even coming from different countries.
Yes, the COVID vaccine debate is looming!
But, so is the obesity debate, which has been ongoing for years without figuring out how to best help overweight kids. Shaming them in front of their peers, while perhaps sometimes effective, appears to be a very destructive approach overall!1 -
rosebarnalice wrote: »
I'm all for public health checks, but PRIVATE SCREENINGS PLEASE!!!!
Agree. Weigh-ins should be private. I believe weighing school children is extremely beneficial. It's important to be able to track public health trends like childhood obesity and screen for abnormally underweight youngsters who may be at risk. Some children may not receive regular health screenings anywhere other than at school. A school with a demonstrable high rate of childhood obesity may decide to offer better cafeteria selections, remove campus vending machines, increase opportunities for physical activity or add nutrition & health education programs.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
IMO, that's what annual checkups with the children's Dr. is for.
How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
We are required to provide proof of annual wellness check along with updated immunization records to my kids' school prior to enrollment. I believe most schools throughout the US require this. Mine get theirs right around their birthdays. IDK, could be wrong...I just assumed it was a requirement everywhere to enroll in school.0 -
Omg this gave me flash backs to middle school being weighed in front of everyone and having your number called out. I was always taller than the other girls so my weight was more and no one understood that if you are taller you are SUPPOSE to weigh more. It was so embarrassing to always weigh more than my friends. Everyone would stand around talking about who was the smallest. I remember trying to skip that day of gym class every year.4
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
In Massachusetts, there are medical requirements for attending public school. In my town, you are required to provide a "report of latest physical exam" and a vaccination record, which comes from a physician's office. I've heard lots of stories where the vaccination record becomes difficult to obtain because the family has switched doctors, even coming from different countries.
Yes, the COVID vaccine debate is looming!
But, so is the obesity debate, which has been ongoing for years without figuring out how to best help overweight kids. Shaming them in front of their peers, while perhaps sometimes effective, appears to be a very destructive approach overall!
Why does weighing children at school have to be in front of their peers?
Why does the data have to be shared?
Who says the children are even told of the outcome?
Some huge assumptions being made - I'm not getting why people seem to be OK with weighing children to check for health concerns in one building (a Doctor's office) is OK but weighing them in a different building (school) would automatically be done in an unkind or unprofessional way.
That some people had bad experiences in their school years doesn't mean the same behaviors have to persist now.
e.g. My best friend's Mum at junior school back in the 60's and 70's was what was colloquially known as a "Nitty Nora". A trained nurse who travelled from school to school inspecting for head lice, done one-on-one, results not shared, heads not shaved or painted purple! No shaming, just useful information gathered and acted upon in conjunction with parents. Vaccinations at my school also weren't done in a group, they were one at a time in a side room. The only bad behavior was from the pupils who then tried to punch each other in the arm!
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
In Massachusetts, there are medical requirements for attending public school. In my town, you are required to provide a "report of latest physical exam" and a vaccination record, which comes from a physician's office. I've heard lots of stories where the vaccination record becomes difficult to obtain because the family has switched doctors, even coming from different countries.
Yes, the COVID vaccine debate is looming!
But, so is the obesity debate, which has been ongoing for years without figuring out how to best help overweight kids. Shaming them in front of their peers, while perhaps sometimes effective, appears to be a very destructive approach overall!
Why does weighing children at school have to be in front of their peers?
Why does the data have to be shared?
Who says the children are even told of the outcome?
Some huge assumptions being made - I'm not getting why people seem to be OK with weighing children to check for health concerns in one building (a Doctor's office) is OK but weighing them in a different building (school) would automatically be done in an unkind or unprofessional way.
That some people had bad experiences in their school years doesn't mean the same behaviors have to persist now.
e.g. My best friend's Mum at junior school back in the 60's and 70's was what was colloquially known as a "Nitty Nora". A trained nurse who travelled from school to school inspecting for head lice, done one-on-one, results not shared, heads not shaved or painted purple! No shaming, just useful information gathered and acted upon in conjunction with parents. Vaccinations at my school also weren't done in a group, they were one at a time in a side room. The only bad behavior was from the pupils who then tried to punch each other in the arm!
I wish they would take the kids in one by one by themselves for a checkup with the nurse. It is the way most schools do it that is the issue. My middle school would line all the girls up and have one girl weigh everyone and yell out the number for the entire gym class to hear (50+ girls and boys). It was humiliating even for someone who was always < BMI 20 as a kid.3 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
In Massachusetts, there are medical requirements for attending public school. In my town, you are required to provide a "report of latest physical exam" and a vaccination record, which comes from a physician's office. I've heard lots of stories where the vaccination record becomes difficult to obtain because the family has switched doctors, even coming from different countries.
Yes, the COVID vaccine debate is looming!
But, so is the obesity debate, which has been ongoing for years without figuring out how to best help overweight kids. Shaming them in front of their peers, while perhaps sometimes effective, appears to be a very destructive approach overall!
Why does weighing children at school have to be in front of their peers?
Why does the data have to be shared?
Who says the children are even told of the outcome?
Some huge assumptions being made - I'm not getting why people seem to be OK with weighing children to check for health concerns in one building (a Doctor's office) is OK but weighing them in a different building (school) would automatically be done in an unkind or unprofessional way.
That some people had bad experiences in their school years doesn't mean the same behaviors have to persist now.
e.g. My best friend's Mum at junior school back in the 60's and 70's was what was colloquially known as a "Nitty Nora". A trained nurse who travelled from school to school inspecting for head lice, done one-on-one, results not shared, heads not shaved or painted purple! No shaming, just useful information gathered and acted upon in conjunction with parents. Vaccinations at my school also weren't done in a group, they were one at a time in a side room. The only bad behavior was from the pupils who then tried to punch each other in the arm!
Why would children need to be weighed at school at all? And if it is not in front of their peers how is it going to be done?
Like are you suggesting that they pull kids out of class one by one, take them to a private room, and have them weighed by a nurse who has travelled to the school for that purpose, and then not share the results with them? To what end?
Lice is different, it can spread to the other kids in the class (although they don't do that here either as a matter of course - maybe if there is an outbreak, not sure about that.)
I mean I got a ton of disagrees on my last post, but seriously, if a school board is spending money on a travelling nurse to weigh kids (which I'm sure would not happen here) I would suggest that it can be better spent on other things that are within their mandate. The education system is not the health care system, and I don't get why people think that they should overlap.
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Seems that a lot of folks here are hearkening back to their decades old bad experiences and somehow extrapolating that into current day practices. It's a bit like arguing against having PE classes in schools today because once upon a time that often involved hideous training suits and a mandatory rope climb.2
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
In Massachusetts, there are medical requirements for attending public school. In my town, you are required to provide a "report of latest physical exam" and a vaccination record, which comes from a physician's office. I've heard lots of stories where the vaccination record becomes difficult to obtain because the family has switched doctors, even coming from different countries.
Yes, the COVID vaccine debate is looming!
But, so is the obesity debate, which has been ongoing for years without figuring out how to best help overweight kids. Shaming them in front of their peers, while perhaps sometimes effective, appears to be a very destructive approach overall!
Why does weighing children at school have to be in front of their peers?
Why does the data have to be shared?
Who says the children are even told of the outcome?
Some huge assumptions being made - I'm not getting why people seem to be OK with weighing children to check for health concerns in one building (a Doctor's office) is OK but weighing them in a different building (school) would automatically be done in an unkind or unprofessional way.
That some people had bad experiences in their school years doesn't mean the same behaviors have to persist now.
e.g. My best friend's Mum at junior school back in the 60's and 70's was what was colloquially known as a "Nitty Nora". A trained nurse who travelled from school to school inspecting for head lice, done one-on-one, results not shared, heads not shaved or painted purple! No shaming, just useful information gathered and acted upon in conjunction with parents. Vaccinations at my school also weren't done in a group, they were one at a time in a side room. The only bad behavior was from the pupils who then tried to punch each other in the arm!
Why would children need to be weighed at school at all? And if it is not in front of their peers how is it going to be done?
Like are you suggesting that they pull kids out of class one by one, take them to a private room, and have them weighed by a nurse who has travelled to the school for that purpose, and then not share the results with them? To what end?
Lice is different, it can spread to the other kids in the class (although they don't do that here either as a matter of course - maybe if there is an outbreak, not sure about that.)
I mean I got a ton of disagrees on my last post, but seriously, if a school board is spending money on a travelling nurse to weigh kids (which I'm sure would not happen here) I would suggest that it can be better spent on other things that are within their mandate. The education system is not the health care system, and I don't get why people think that they should overlap.
Schools have many rooms. Why can't the weign-in be done one by one? Form a line in a corridor and go in singly should be a blindingly obvious solution. Just like we did for our BCG vaccinations in fact.
Yes nurses (and other medical professionals) do travel round schools here, it's not paid by the school board as you term it. Different country, different funding.
Yes the problematic results should be shared with the children's parents, it's their over-arching responsibility to care for their children after all. Just like in your system I would hope that any health issues with a child being under or overweight would be shared with parents. No it doesn't have to be spelled out to the children themselves, no it shouldn't be broadcast to all.
Yes lice infestation is different and the way that is managed also changed from my generation to my children's generation. Just like as various health and welfare concerns have changed and evolved over the years. Diseases of poverty versus diseases of plenty for example.
One benefit of capturing data on all school age children is that it includes the children of bad or incompetant parents as well as those of better parents.
My D-I-L is a teacher at a school where many of the children have had a very disrupted upbringing and may not have had regular education OR healthcare OR capable parents.
There's two different debates here.
Whether capturing weight data on children when growing numbers of them are suffering health impacts now and in their future is the question asked.
How it can be ensured it's done appropriately is I would hope an area where there could be broad agreement on principles.
Just like at my school I was subject to corporal punishment (which is now banned). I would hope that people wouldn't say all forms of school discipline should be banned.
There a difference between the goal and the method.7 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
In Massachusetts, there are medical requirements for attending public school. In my town, you are required to provide a "report of latest physical exam" and a vaccination record, which comes from a physician's office. I've heard lots of stories where the vaccination record becomes difficult to obtain because the family has switched doctors, even coming from different countries.
Yes, the COVID vaccine debate is looming!
But, so is the obesity debate, which has been ongoing for years without figuring out how to best help overweight kids. Shaming them in front of their peers, while perhaps sometimes effective, appears to be a very destructive approach overall!
Why does weighing children at school have to be in front of their peers?
Why does the data have to be shared?
Who says the children are even told of the outcome?
Some huge assumptions being made - I'm not getting why people seem to be OK with weighing children to check for health concerns in one building (a Doctor's office) is OK but weighing them in a different building (school) would automatically be done in an unkind or unprofessional way.
That some people had bad experiences in their school years doesn't mean the same behaviors have to persist now.
e.g. My best friend's Mum at junior school back in the 60's and 70's was what was colloquially known as a "Nitty Nora". A trained nurse who travelled from school to school inspecting for head lice, done one-on-one, results not shared, heads not shaved or painted purple! No shaming, just useful information gathered and acted upon in conjunction with parents. Vaccinations at my school also weren't done in a group, they were one at a time in a side room. The only bad behavior was from the pupils who then tried to punch each other in the arm!
Why would children need to be weighed at school at all? And if it is not in front of their peers how is it going to be done?
Like are you suggesting that they pull kids out of class one by one, take them to a private room, and have them weighed by a nurse who has travelled to the school for that purpose, and then not share the results with them? To what end?
Lice is different, it can spread to the other kids in the class (although they don't do that here either as a matter of course - maybe if there is an outbreak, not sure about that.)
I mean I got a ton of disagrees on my last post, but seriously, if a school board is spending money on a travelling nurse to weigh kids (which I'm sure would not happen here) I would suggest that it can be better spent on other things that are within their mandate. The education system is not the health care system, and I don't get why people think that they should overlap.
Schools have many rooms. Why can't the weign-in be done one by one? Form a line in a corridor and go in singly should be a blindingly obvious solution. Just like we did for our BCG vaccinations in fact.
Yes nurses (and other medical professionals) do travel round schools here, it's not paid by the school board as you term it. Different country, different funding.
Yes the problematic results should be shared with the children's parents, it's their over-arching responsibility to care for their children after all. Just like in your system I would hope that any health issues with a child being under or overweight would be shared with parents. No it doesn't have to be spelled out to the children themselves, no it shouldn't be broadcast to all.
Yes lice infestation is different and the way that is managed also changed from my generation to my children's generation. Just like as various health and welfare concerns have changed and evolved over the years. Diseases of poverty versus diseases of plenty for example.
One benefit of capturing data on all school age children is that it includes the children of bad or incompetant parents as well as those of better parents.
My D-I-L is a teacher at a school where many of the children have had a very disrupted upbringing and may not have had regular education OR healthcare OR capable parents.
There's two different debates here.
Whether capturing weight data on children when growing numbers of them are suffering health impacts now and in their future is the question asked.
How it can be ensured it's done appropriately is I would hope an area where there could be broad agreement on principles.
Just like at my school I was subject to corporal punishment (which is now banned). I would hope that people wouldn't say all forms of school discipline should be banned.
There a difference between the goal and the method.
"Form a line in a corridor and go in singly should be a blindingly obvious solution". To be weighed? You are suggesting that we line kids up in the hallway and take them into a private room individually to be weighed?
How often would this be done, and wouldn't it have to be tracked over time? A one time "weigh-in" wouldn't be much use for anything, it's not even a reliable predictor of health. Kid's often gain weight prior to a growth spurt, or super skinny kids fill out over time.
Idk I think I am on my own here but that just seems ridiculous to me.
The schools here have enough to do providing education without tracking each kids weight and growth. Adding in having to track ONE health marker, that isn't even all that useful, and is most likely a duplication of care they are already getting at the doctor, strikes me as a massive waste of resources.
It also occurs to me as an overstepping of boundaries. To me a child's health, including the appropriateness of their weight, is something that is between the child, their parents, and their doctor - not the school system. (Short of suspected abuse or neglect of course, teachers are required to report that already).
Children are fed by their parents, they can't change their diet on their own. I am skeptical that sending a note with the child's weight home to the parents would have any impact on a child's "disrupted" upbringing, or on their "incompetent parents". My friend is obese, her husband is obese, and her son is obese - I doubt that the school advising her that their child is overweight would have effect on their eating habits - or do anything other than piss her off. I also live in a very multi-cultural neighbourhood - issues around food, diet and weight can be a culturally sensitive topic.
For all these reasons I think that it is both unnecessary and a waste of resources. I think that general diet and fitness education in gym/health class is sufficient.
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