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When I can't help........
Replies
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Yeah, having gone through this before (in VA), it's an issue of discrimination and in CA I'm sure it would be a harder legal battle if we took the wrong direction on this. It's ONE thing if the person comes up to me and asks a question, and other thing if I interject with my opinion on someone's training habits. Sure most would take it to heart and know that I have their best interests at heart, but with someone like this, they can take that advice as singling them out (which I would be) and deterring them of their right to train the way they wish too. I'm supposed to talk to my regional manager today about it. We'll see.So, basically, you think she needs to eat a sammich. There is a whole other thread going on about this right now.
From what I read in the other thread "Body Shaming", you should be ashamed that you feel this way, you should accept the fact that she likes her body the way it is, and should train her the way she wants to be trained. The way I see it, refusing to train her is body shaming her because she is, in YOUR opinion, underweight. It is not your place to say or think negative thoughts about anyone because of their body.
(trying real hard here, but I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.)
I don't think many got your sarcasm.
Even *I* got it and things fly over my head at the speed of light.
@ninerbuff, you've gotten great advice as far as legal advice, counselor, etc. I'm sure her family is beside themselves with worry over her health.
Any way you could get connected with them or does that violate privacy laws? Can you talk with the girl, offer her help or get her connected with the right resources? I almost think I'd try to anonymously contact the health department or someone and give them a 'what if' scenario to see what they could suggest. It sounds like she needs professional help and soon. The trouble with banning her or refusing training, it won't give her the help she obviously needs. As you've seen, she'll find ways to do what she feels she needs to anyways.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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So, basically, you think she needs to eat a sammich. There is a whole other thread going on about this right now.
From what I read in the other thread "Body Shaming", you should be ashamed that you feel this way, you should accept the fact that she likes her body the way it is, and should train her the way she wants to be trained. The way I see it, refusing to train her is body shaming her because she is, in YOUR opinion, underweight. It is not your place to say or think negative thoughts about anyone because of their body.
(trying real hard here, but I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.)
Eight disagrees to a post clearly labeled as sarcasm.
Hit Dog Hollers syndrome. I love it.3 -
MerryFit519 wrote: »is it possible to agree to training, IF the training incorporated, say, a healthy protein shake during the workout? Part of training (as I recall from years ago when I worked with a trainer) ..is covering a whole-body wellness, including how to eat to best fuel muscles, fat loss, etc.
Not suggesting trying to force-feed or anything. But, if it were presented as, "working out requires fuel and if you would like to tone/build muscles, we can do that with this whey protein shake..(or whatever) during your training sessions so you'll see some results"
I don't know..but seems if her thoughts of food have turned into fear (leading her to under eat severely) .. introducing the notion that it is a "tool" for success might help?
editing to add: if this were possible, I'd not discuss it with her in terms of calories, or any other fearful words. I'd present the science, in terms like amino acids etc.
It's beyond the scope of most trainer's certification to provide specific nutritional advice to a client which telling them to drink a protein shake during a workout would be5 -
*waits impatiently to hear what the regional manager has to say.
I'm really wondering if there *is* anything that can be done...until something happens. In which case, it could have been prevented if only you could have done something!5 -
*waits impatiently to hear what the regional manager has to say.
I'm really wondering if there *is* anything that can be done...until something happens. In which case, it could have been prevented if only you could have done something!
It appears the person @ninerbuff is dealing with has some issues. No need to make him feel guilty. Face it, if the client was told they can't come back there isn't anything stopping her from going a on 20 mile run with minimal caloric intake.1 -
I think there is a tendency in all sorts of mental illnesses for people to believe if only someone - or them - can find or say the right thing that the person will understand and get better/be better.
It doesn't work that way.
It doesn't work that way when it's explaining to someone with an ED that they need more food (or drink protein to grow muscle) than it does telling someone with anxiety to calm down there's nothing to be afraid of, or telling someone with depression to cheer up, their life is pretty good.
And it DEFINITELY doesn't work that way coming from a stranger in a gym.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »*waits impatiently to hear what the regional manager has to say.
I'm really wondering if there *is* anything that can be done...until something happens. In which case, it could have been prevented if only you could have done something!
It appears the person @ninerbuff is dealing with has some issues. No need to make him feel guilty. Face it, if the client was told they can't come back there isn't anything stopping her from going a on 20 mile run with minimal caloric intake.
Uh, I wasn't trying to make him feel guilty. I meant "you" in the general sense.1 -
Well it's pretty much as I thought. If she wants to come in to work out on her own, there's nothing we can do to stop her unless she's performing an exercise that could be "physically dangerous" (IE like hanging upside down and doing crunches) or she faints and we have to attend to her.
Again a fine line as to what we can do without repercussion if she decides we are singleling her out due to her disorder. We have several "challenged" people here (I train a down syndrome kid and just got a new client who has special needs and has a chaperone) and to not address them the same way would be discrimination. So we're just stuck until she does something wrong in training or she actually comes to us and requests help.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 9 -
Since she's new to the gym - she probably has no idea if you have new posters rotated around and added every once in awhile.
Time to start including a couple as someone suggested. Get that subliminal suggestion going.1 -
She new to our gym, but it's obvious this girl knows how to work out. She sets up her own station then checks her phone for workout. And once she puts her headset on, she's oblivious to her immediate surroundings. I watched her for like 10 minutes one time while on the floor and she never looked around once.Since she's new to the gym - she probably has no idea if you have new posters rotated around and added every once in awhile.
Time to start including a couple as someone suggested. Get that subliminal suggestion going.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
She new to our gym, but it's obvious this girl knows how to work out. She sets up her own station then checks her phone for workout. And once she puts her headset on, she's oblivious to her immediate surroundings. I watched her for like 10 minutes one time while on the floor and she never looked around once.Since she's new to the gym - she probably has no idea if you have new posters rotated around and added every once in awhile.
Time to start including a couple as someone suggested. Get that subliminal suggestion going.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Her picture is probably on the post office wall. Can you lift some fingerprints off the handles, or does she wipe everything down after?2 -
Well it's pretty much as I thought. If she wants to come in to work out on her own, there's nothing we can do to stop her unless she's performing an exercise that could be "physically dangerous" (IE like hanging upside down and doing crunches) or she faints and we have to attend to her.
Again a fine line as to what we can do without repercussion if she decides we are singleling her out due to her disorder. We have several "challenged" people here (I train a down syndrome kid and just got a new client who has special needs and has a chaperone) and to not address them the same way would be discrimination. So we're just stuck until she does something wrong in training or she actually comes to us and requests help.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well, you tried and your heart was in the right place. Hopefully, she doesn't end up injuring herself.6 -
Well it's pretty much as I thought. If she wants to come in to work out on her own, there's nothing we can do to stop her unless she's performing an exercise that could be "physically dangerous" (IE like hanging upside down and doing crunches) or she faints and we have to attend to her.
Again a fine line as to what we can do without repercussion if she decides we are singleling her out due to her disorder. We have several "challenged" people here (I train a down syndrome kid and just got a new client who has special needs and has a chaperone) and to not address them the same way would be discrimination. So we're just stuck until she does something wrong in training or she actually comes to us and requests help.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Oh man.. that’s rough.
Well. When she keeps over on your floor, at least you’ll be prepared.3 -
In our gym, it's a requirement to wipe down. We provide the wipes in several stations around the gym. Those that refuse to can have their membership suspended. True story. And I'm the guy that enforces it.
She new to our gym, but it's obvious this girl knows how to work out. She sets up her own station then checks her phone for workout. And once she puts her headset on, she's oblivious to her immediate surroundings. I watched her for like 10 minutes one time while on the floor and she never looked around once.Since she's new to the gym - she probably has no idea if you have new posters rotated around and added every once in awhile.
Time to start including a couple as someone suggested. Get that subliminal suggestion going.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Her picture is probably on the post office wall. Can you lift some fingerprints off the handles, or does she wipe everything down after?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Maybe you guys can make the weight gain a little less aggressive (like 2 lbs) and let her train - making the first training session mostly focused on nutrition for sports or something like that?
I’m my state trainers cannot give specific diet plans etc but can discuss federally recognized standards like calorie minimums, macro and nutrient RDAs etc.
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The weight suggestion was because people with this disorder will gain less than half that was asked and if it's 2lbs, then a 1 lb gain can be just done drinking water.Onedaywriter wrote: »Maybe you guys can make the weight gain a little less aggressive (like 2 lbs) and let her train - making the first training session mostly focused on nutrition for sports or something like that?
I’m my state trainers cannot give specific diet plans etc but can discuss federally recognized standards like calorie minimums, macro and nutrient RDAs etc.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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@ninerbuff: I do applaud your commitment and your empathy, and I just wanted to give you a slightly different look on this:
One of my longtime best friends is probably very similar to your client, and even for us who have know her for decades, there is a line about food that we do not cross. She knows very well that there is an issue (a poster on the door will be neglected for sure). Also, she is extremely well educated about food and nutrition.
My friend is also incredibly strong for her weight, she is literally all bones and muscles and she participates in incredible sports challenges. Maybe your client is like that as well, as you say that she is doing reps in good form. It might also be that coming to the gym is already a very big step for her.
I'm not sure that there is anything you can do, except be mindful.
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Yep. All I can do is just monitor what she does and see how it goes.Antiopelle wrote: »@ninerbuff: I do applaud your commitment and your empathy, and I just wanted to give you a slightly different look on this:
One of my longtime best friends is probably very similar to your client, and even for us who have know her for decades, there is a line about food that we do not cross. She knows very well that there is an issue (a poster on the door will be neglected for sure). Also, she is extremely well educated about food and nutrition.
My friend is also incredibly strong for her weight, she is literally all bones and muscles and she participates in incredible sports challenges. Maybe your client is like that as well, as you say that she is doing reps in good form. It might also be that coming to the gym is already a very big step for her.
I'm not sure that there is anything you can do, except be mindful.
And I understand disorders to a point. I'm semi OCD when it comes to organization, where I CONSTANTLY walk through our gym and rearrange weights so the racks all look the same. I'll do it on breaks between sets on my own workout. Doesn't matter if I'm working or not. I get to the gym and rerack weights and just before I leave. I can let it go once I leave, but while I'm there it's a constant thing on my mind.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I'm sorry you're going to have to deal with this, Niner.
It's so incredibly difficult to watch someone do the slow suicide. Without nutrition the brain of course doesn't work correctly and with her addiction/compulsions it's just a super sad chain of events unfolding in slow motion. Way more than anyone in a gym setting can handle.
I hope she finds help, but it's really doubtful.2 -
I haven’t seen this recommended and due to the liability it may not be possible, but a thought I had so I’ll throw it out there. I know you’re all released of liability as long as she works out on her own, not sure if there’s a clause anywhere in the gym contract that also individually protects trainers of liability. But would it be possible for a trainer to agree to train her, but adjust a “typical session” (I put this in quotes because I know sessions are probably pretty individualized already) to be pretty light for her? Like exercises you feel pretty confident wouldn’t cause injury or harm?! Leaving her on her own will prevent anyone from being responsible for her injury, but won’t really give an opportunity for intervention. However, maybe if a trainer gets involved with her, they’ll be able to build some rapport and eventually be able to encourage some better habits. Of course, this would be a bit tricky to “challenge” her enough to not blow of her trainer since she seems to be training pretty hard on her own, while balancing a light enough routine where the trainer would feel comfortable that she won’t get injured.
Refusing service isn’t going to do much since all she has to do is go down the street to the next gym where she can train on her own. Informative posters aren’t a bad idea, but I know anytime I’ve gone to the gym I put in my headphones and get “in the zone,” I’ve never really paid any attention to what’s on the walls.
If everyone is fine with stepping back and just keeping an eye out for a bigger issue to occur, then of course there’s always the recommendation of live and let live… either way it says a lot that you care enough to ask for other opinions and recommendations, so I applaud you. I’m sure it’s a struggle for all of you to watch!1
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