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Still searching for the perfect diet ...
33gail33
Posts: 1,155 Member
in Debate Club
... and I came across this. Caught my attention because I have been waffling back and forth with low carb/grain free lately.
"In 2017, 11 million (95% uncertainty interval [UI] 10–12) deaths and 255 million (234–274) DALYs were attributable to dietary risk factors. High intake of sodium (3 million [1–5] deaths and 70 million [34–118] DALYs), low intake of whole grains (3 million [2–4] deaths and 82 million [59–109] DALYs), and low intake of fruits (2 million [1–4] deaths and 65 million [41–92] DALYs) were the leading dietary risk factors for deaths and DALYs globally and in many countries."
Not sure if this study has already been discussed.
https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(19)30041-8/fulltext
"In 2017, 11 million (95% uncertainty interval [UI] 10–12) deaths and 255 million (234–274) DALYs were attributable to dietary risk factors. High intake of sodium (3 million [1–5] deaths and 70 million [34–118] DALYs), low intake of whole grains (3 million [2–4] deaths and 82 million [59–109] DALYs), and low intake of fruits (2 million [1–4] deaths and 65 million [41–92] DALYs) were the leading dietary risk factors for deaths and DALYs globally and in many countries."
Not sure if this study has already been discussed.
https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(19)30041-8/fulltext
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Replies
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I worry about cutting out grains. Isn't that hard on kidneys? I like longevity studies, and it seems like grains make up a large portion of the diets in communities with long living, healthy people. The Mediterranean diet, for me, is the perfect diet and it's how I tend to eat naturally...all the foods I love. Recently, I've had to cut out gluten for stomach issues, though. It's been hard to get enough calories since my diet did sort revolve around pasta and bread...so now I'm experimenting with eating similar to how they would in the 40s or 50s except I eat oats, rice, quinoa, or canyon bakehouse gluten free bread instead of regular bread and rolls. So, for example, dinner will be a side salad, protein, potatoes, another vegetable, and maybe a bit of quinoa or rice...and then some sort of healthy dessert.2
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I worry about cutting out grains. Isn't that hard on kidneys? I like longevity studies, and it seems like grains make up a large portion of the diets in communities with long living, healthy people. The Mediterranean diet, for me, is the perfect diet and it's how I tend to eat naturally...all the foods I love. Recently, I've had to cut out gluten for stomach issues, though. It's been hard to get enough calories since my diet did sort revolve around pasta and bread...so now I'm experimenting with eating similar to how they would in the 40s or 50s except I eat oats, rice, quinoa, or canyon bakehouse gluten free bread instead of regular bread and rolls. So, for example, dinner will be a side salad, protein, potatoes, another vegetable, and maybe a bit of quinoa or rice...and then some sort of healthy dessert.
Yeah I don't eat meat (I do eat fish and eggs) so the Mediterranean diet would probably work OK for me. I eat a lot of beans and lentils though, not sure if that is compatible.
I know that when I cut out grains I lost a lot of weight and felt "better" - but also people often switch to a healthier overall diet when they do that and attribute their "gains" to a specific thing. I cut out gluten years ago and my decades long "idiopathic" geographic tongue and ibs issues cleared up - so I believed that I was gluten intolerant. Then I introduced gluten back in (because I got lazy) and the geographic tongue didn't come back. So maybe it was the B12 shots, or that I cut out junk food, or the increase in micronutrients from more balance, that helped.
So even when I think I have hit on the right thing it isn't always what it seems.
I am trying to optimize my health going forward with something I can stick too, not just lose weight. It's all so confusing because nothing we try is done in a vaccuum, so your approach on longevity studies of certain populations is probably a good one. This study's focus on whole grains definitely got me thinking, since there is so much talk about Keto and low carb, because it seems to support the Mediterranean type diet approach.
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I don't think it's healthy to cut whole grains and fruit out of your diet. Or to eat staggeringly high amounts of fat.5
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To be clear, you need fat, but you don't need all the fat. You also need fiber and a lot of other things.6
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I'm confused?
The quoted passage in the OP seems to be saying bad outcomes were associated with "low intake of whole grains". Why are we then talking about cutting out grains?
The tables (like Figure 3) do show low intake of legumes as a risk factor.
Given the totality of the text and context, I wouldn't assume that higher intake than their optimal level (100-150g/day for whole grains, 50-70g/day for legumes) is necessarily affirmatively bad for a person.
IMO, key point in text:. . . our assessment shows that the leading dietary risk factors for mortality are diets high in sodium, low in whole grains, low in fruit, low in nuts and seeds, low in vegetables, and low in omega-3 fatty acids; each accounting for more than 2% of global deaths. This finding suggests that dietary policies focusing on promoting the intake of components of diet for which current intake is less than the optimal level might have a greater effect than policies only targeting sugar and fat, highlighting the need for a comprehensive food system interventions to promote the production, distribution, and consumption of these foods across nations.
They're worried about sub-par intake of healthy things, which may have implications for supra-par intake of some things (especially in that we likely need nutritional balance), but getting us to eat less than the top end of their "optimal range" doesn't seem to be their big concern here.6 -
I'm confused?
The quoted passage in the OP seems to be saying bad outcomes were associated with "low intake of whole grains". Why are we then talking about cutting out grains?
The tables (like Figure 3) do show low intake of legumes as a risk factor.
Given the totality of the text and context, I wouldn't assume that higher intake than their optimal level (100-150g/day for whole grains, 50-70g/day for legumes) is necessarily affirmatively bad for a person.
IMO, key point in text:. . . our assessment shows that the leading dietary risk factors for mortality are diets high in sodium, low in whole grains, low in fruit, low in nuts and seeds, low in vegetables, and low in omega-3 fatty acids; each accounting for more than 2% of global deaths. This finding suggests that dietary policies focusing on promoting the intake of components of diet for which current intake is less than the optimal level might have a greater effect than policies only targeting sugar and fat, highlighting the need for a comprehensive food system interventions to promote the production, distribution, and consumption of these foods across nations.
They're worried about sub-par intake of healthy things, which may have implications for supra-par intake of some things (especially in that we likely need nutritional balance), but getting us to eat less than the top end of their "optimal range" doesn't seem to be their big concern here.
It caught my interest because I have been cutting out grains in the past to lose weight/gain health (supposedly) and given this study it seems that might not be prudent.
Given the current popularity of Keto and low carb diets I thought this was an interesting finding.3 -
I'm just happy that overconsumption of sugar doesn't seem to be a factor
(I didn't read the article, just the excerpt posted. Please, no one disillusion me)3 -
I've seen a lot bean dishes in Mediterranean cooking, usually white beans or chickpeas. This is one of my favorite shows with elderly Italian women still making pasta in insane quantities. I am so hopeful this gluten sensitivity of mine is just temporary!!!
https://youtu.be/exThDVSpGoEI worry about cutting out grains. Isn't that hard on kidneys? I like longevity studies, and it seems like grains make up a large portion of the diets in communities with long living, healthy people. The Mediterranean diet, for me, is the perfect diet and it's how I tend to eat naturally...all the foods I love. Recently, I've had to cut out gluten for stomach issues, though. It's been hard to get enough calories since my diet did sort revolve around pasta and bread...so now I'm experimenting with eating similar to how they would in the 40s or 50s except I eat oats, rice, quinoa, or canyon bakehouse gluten free bread instead of regular bread and rolls. So, for example, dinner will be a side salad, protein, potatoes, another vegetable, and maybe a bit of quinoa or rice...and then some sort of healthy dessert.
Yeah I don't eat meat (I do eat fish and eggs) so the Mediterranean diet would probably work OK for me. I eat a lot of beans and lentils though, not sure if that is compatible.
I know that when I cut out grains I lost a lot of weight and felt "better" - but also people often switch to a healthier overall diet when they do that and attribute their "gains" to a specific thing. I cut out gluten years ago and my decades long "idiopathic" geographic tongue and ibs issues cleared up - so I believed that I was gluten intolerant. Then I introduced gluten back in (because I got lazy) and the geographic tongue didn't come back. So maybe it was the B12 shots, or that I cut out junk food, or the increase in micronutrients from more balance, that helped.
So even when I think I have hit on the right thing it isn't always what it seems.
I am trying to optimize my health going forward with something I can stick too, not just lose weight. It's all so confusing because nothing we try is done in a vaccuum, so your approach on longevity studies of certain populations is probably a good one. This study's focus on whole grains definitely got me thinking, since there is so much talk about Keto and low carb, because it seems to support the Mediterranean type diet approach.
1 -
I've seen a lot bean dishes in Mediterranean cooking, usually white beans or chickpeas. This is one of my favorite shows with elderly Italian women still making pasta in insane quantities. I am so hopeful this gluten sensitivity of mine is just temporary!!!https://youtu.be/exThDVSpGoEI worry about cutting out grains. Isn't that hard on kidneys? I like longevity studies, and it seems like grains make up a large portion of the diets in communities with long living, healthy people. The Mediterranean diet, for me, is the perfect diet and it's how I tend to eat naturally...all the foods I love. Recently, I've had to cut out gluten for stomach issues, though. It's been hard to get enough calories since my diet did sort revolve around pasta and bread...so now I'm experimenting with eating similar to how they would in the 40s or 50s except I eat oats, rice, quinoa, or canyon bakehouse gluten free bread instead of regular bread and rolls. So, for example, dinner will be a side salad, protein, potatoes, another vegetable, and maybe a bit of quinoa or rice...and then some sort of healthy dessert.
Yeah I don't eat meat (I do eat fish and eggs) so the Mediterranean diet would probably work OK for me. I eat a lot of beans and lentils though, not sure if that is compatible.
I know that when I cut out grains I lost a lot of weight and felt "better" - but also people often switch to a healthier overall diet when they do that and attribute their "gains" to a specific thing. I cut out gluten years ago and my decades long "idiopathic" geographic tongue and ibs issues cleared up - so I believed that I was gluten intolerant. Then I introduced gluten back in (because I got lazy) and the geographic tongue didn't come back. So maybe it was the B12 shots, or that I cut out junk food, or the increase in micronutrients from more balance, that helped.
So even when I think I have hit on the right thing it isn't always what it seems.
I am trying to optimize my health going forward with something I can stick too, not just lose weight. It's all so confusing because nothing we try is done in a vaccuum, so your approach on longevity studies of certain populations is probably a good one. This study's focus on whole grains definitely got me thinking, since there is so much talk about Keto and low carb, because it seems to support the Mediterranean type diet approach.
Yeah gluten intolerance makes it harder - there is still lots of whole grain options for you if you need them - but I have never had a gluten free pasta that really compares to the “real” thing.
The one thing I definitely can’t eat is chickpeas - I am allergic to those. Idk I am finding it disheartening and confusing trying to feel energized and healthy at my age and keep thinking if I can maybe find the diet that works for me that would help. Maybe I just have to accept I am never gonna feel “great” again, (or look elsewhere besides diet).0 -
I've seen a lot bean dishes in Mediterranean cooking, usually white beans or chickpeas. This is one of my favorite shows with elderly Italian women still making pasta in insane quantities. I am so hopeful this gluten sensitivity of mine is just temporary!!!https://youtu.be/exThDVSpGoEI worry about cutting out grains. Isn't that hard on kidneys? I like longevity studies, and it seems like grains make up a large portion of the diets in communities with long living, healthy people. The Mediterranean diet, for me, is the perfect diet and it's how I tend to eat naturally...all the foods I love. Recently, I've had to cut out gluten for stomach issues, though. It's been hard to get enough calories since my diet did sort revolve around pasta and bread...so now I'm experimenting with eating similar to how they would in the 40s or 50s except I eat oats, rice, quinoa, or canyon bakehouse gluten free bread instead of regular bread and rolls. So, for example, dinner will be a side salad, protein, potatoes, another vegetable, and maybe a bit of quinoa or rice...and then some sort of healthy dessert.
Yeah I don't eat meat (I do eat fish and eggs) so the Mediterranean diet would probably work OK for me. I eat a lot of beans and lentils though, not sure if that is compatible.
I know that when I cut out grains I lost a lot of weight and felt "better" - but also people often switch to a healthier overall diet when they do that and attribute their "gains" to a specific thing. I cut out gluten years ago and my decades long "idiopathic" geographic tongue and ibs issues cleared up - so I believed that I was gluten intolerant. Then I introduced gluten back in (because I got lazy) and the geographic tongue didn't come back. So maybe it was the B12 shots, or that I cut out junk food, or the increase in micronutrients from more balance, that helped.
So even when I think I have hit on the right thing it isn't always what it seems.
I am trying to optimize my health going forward with something I can stick too, not just lose weight. It's all so confusing because nothing we try is done in a vaccuum, so your approach on longevity studies of certain populations is probably a good one. This study's focus on whole grains definitely got me thinking, since there is so much talk about Keto and low carb, because it seems to support the Mediterranean type diet approach.
Yeah gluten intolerance makes it harder - there is still lots of whole grain options for you if you need them - but I have never had a gluten free pasta that really compares to the “real” thing.
The one thing I definitely can’t eat is chickpeas - I am allergic to those. Idk I am finding it disheartening and confusing trying to feel energized and healthy at my age and keep thinking if I can maybe find the diet that works for me that would help. Maybe I just have to accept I am never gonna feel “great” again, (or look elsewhere besides diet).
Can you eat other legumes? The Barilla (brand) red lentil pastas are IMO really better (texture-wise, more protein) than the chickpea pastas. I'm not convinced that generalizes to other brands, but haven't experimented enough with others to generalize responsibly.
I don't really think this helps you, so it's an aside: I don't mostly love the idea of adopting some named diet, but like an approach that's more like gradual personalized diet remodeling. Yes, "model diets" or "named diets" can be an input to that thinking. Still, we each have our unique combination of tastes, sensitivities, practical challenges, etc. I assume some would be overwhelmed at the thought, but personally I find the remodeling concept quite practical.1 -
I'm confused?
The quoted passage in the OP seems to be saying bad outcomes were associated with "low intake of whole grains". Why are we then talking about cutting out grains?
The tables (like Figure 3) do show low intake of legumes as a risk factor.
Given the totality of the text and context, I wouldn't assume that higher intake than their optimal level (100-150g/day for whole grains, 50-70g/day for legumes) is necessarily affirmatively bad for a person.
IMO, key point in text:. . . our assessment shows that the leading dietary risk factors for mortality are diets high in sodium, low in whole grains, low in fruit, low in nuts and seeds, low in vegetables, and low in omega-3 fatty acids; each accounting for more than 2% of global deaths. This finding suggests that dietary policies focusing on promoting the intake of components of diet for which current intake is less than the optimal level might have a greater effect than policies only targeting sugar and fat, highlighting the need for a comprehensive food system interventions to promote the production, distribution, and consumption of these foods across nations.
They're worried about sub-par intake of healthy things, which may have implications for supra-par intake of some things (especially in that we likely need nutritional balance), but getting us to eat less than the top end of their "optimal range" doesn't seem to be their big concern here.
It caught my interest because I have been cutting out grains in the past to lose weight/gain health (supposedly) and given this study it seems that might not be prudent.
Given the current popularity of Keto and low carb diets I thought this was an interesting finding.
OK, that totally makes sense now. Thanks for clarifying!1 -
I've seen a lot bean dishes in Mediterranean cooking, usually white beans or chickpeas. This is one of my favorite shows with elderly Italian women still making pasta in insane quantities. I am so hopeful this gluten sensitivity of mine is just temporary!!!https://youtu.be/exThDVSpGoEI worry about cutting out grains. Isn't that hard on kidneys? I like longevity studies, and it seems like grains make up a large portion of the diets in communities with long living, healthy people. The Mediterranean diet, for me, is the perfect diet and it's how I tend to eat naturally...all the foods I love. Recently, I've had to cut out gluten for stomach issues, though. It's been hard to get enough calories since my diet did sort revolve around pasta and bread...so now I'm experimenting with eating similar to how they would in the 40s or 50s except I eat oats, rice, quinoa, or canyon bakehouse gluten free bread instead of regular bread and rolls. So, for example, dinner will be a side salad, protein, potatoes, another vegetable, and maybe a bit of quinoa or rice...and then some sort of healthy dessert.
Yeah I don't eat meat (I do eat fish and eggs) so the Mediterranean diet would probably work OK for me. I eat a lot of beans and lentils though, not sure if that is compatible.
I know that when I cut out grains I lost a lot of weight and felt "better" - but also people often switch to a healthier overall diet when they do that and attribute their "gains" to a specific thing. I cut out gluten years ago and my decades long "idiopathic" geographic tongue and ibs issues cleared up - so I believed that I was gluten intolerant. Then I introduced gluten back in (because I got lazy) and the geographic tongue didn't come back. So maybe it was the B12 shots, or that I cut out junk food, or the increase in micronutrients from more balance, that helped.
So even when I think I have hit on the right thing it isn't always what it seems.
I am trying to optimize my health going forward with something I can stick too, not just lose weight. It's all so confusing because nothing we try is done in a vaccuum, so your approach on longevity studies of certain populations is probably a good one. This study's focus on whole grains definitely got me thinking, since there is so much talk about Keto and low carb, because it seems to support the Mediterranean type diet approach.
Yeah gluten intolerance makes it harder - there is still lots of whole grain options for you if you need them - but I have never had a gluten free pasta that really compares to the “real” thing.
The one thing I definitely can’t eat is chickpeas - I am allergic to those. Idk I am finding it disheartening and confusing trying to feel energized and healthy at my age and keep thinking if I can maybe find the diet that works for me that would help. Maybe I just have to accept I am never gonna feel “great” again, (or look elsewhere besides diet).
Can you eat other legumes? The Barilla (brand) red lentil pastas are IMO really better (texture-wise, more protein) than the chickpea pastas. I'm not convinced that generalizes to other brands, but haven't experimented enough with others to generalize responsibly.
I don't really think this helps you, so it's an aside: I don't mostly love the idea of adopting some named diet, but like an approach that's more like gradual personalized diet remodeling. Yes, "model diets" or "named diets" can be an input to that thinking. Still, we each have our unique combination of tastes, sensitivities, practical challenges, etc. I assume some would be overwhelmed at the thought, but personally I find the remodeling concept quite practical.
I can and do eat beans and lentils but I wonder if I should. My tongue has always randomly "swelled" (not really swelled but gets sore and inflamed) and the only things I have pinpointed it to so far are chickpeas (which is bad and definitely an allergic reaction - my doctor offered me an epipen) and walnuts. So I wonder what damage other legumes and nuts might be doing to me in the long run. (FWIW I had allergy tests and didn't react to any of the foods in the standard skin testing - although I do have multiple environmental allergies.)
To clarify I do eat gluten so I can have pasta (my comment was in response to the other poster). I did a gluten free experiment several years ago and did get relief - but I also "cleaned up" my whole diet and took vitamins, supplements and B12 shots so I'm not convinced gluten was ever the problem. I take sublingual B12 daily now.
I think maybe you are right - maybe an elimination diet would be a good idea for me. I could cut stuff out temporarily and add it back in to see how I react and then build my diet from there.
Because I have several long standing possibly inflammatory type things going on (geograhic tongue, chronic sinusitis, tinnitus, vertigo, arthritis, allergies) it makes sense to me that diet could be the issue, they have never found anything else wrong with me. Or maybe I am just hoping for a magic bullet that makes me feel better and there isn't one.3 -
Have you considered an imbalance with omega 6s and omega 3s? I have issues with inflammation as well that seem to be unknown.. I have been told I have IBS which is basically the, "we don't know what else is could be diagnoses.." I realized I eat a lot of foods that are higher in omega 6s, which can lead to inflammation. I recently started taking omega 3 tablets to try and balance this.
I have tried to keep highly processed carbs at a minimum before, but my body seems to be happier with grains than vegetable fiber. A salad absolutely destroys me, which is frustrating as I love a good salad. And I am not particularly a bread or pasta lover..1 -
This type of study is so vague that you really can't translate it on an individual basis. The people that gained the most were the people that were paid a lot money for doing it.1
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OP, do you eat dairy?
For health, a produce rich diet is best. I like the Mediterranean diet.0 -
OP, do you eat dairy?
For health, a produce rich diet is best. I like the Mediterranean diet.
I do yes. I do think produce rich is best as well, and you would think that being vegetarian mine would be, but I think I rely too much on beans and rice and carbs. I really need to get my *kitten* together and do it right.2 -
OP, do you eat dairy?
For health, a produce rich diet is best. I like the Mediterranean diet.
I do yes. I do think produce rich is best as well, and you would think that being vegetarian mine would be, but I think I rely too much on beans and rice and carbs. I really need to get my *kitten* together and do it right.
You could try a trial of eliminating all dairy if you’re having issues with inflammation. Starchy carbs and legumes are great, but for inflammation you want high antioxidant foods.1 -
OP, do you eat dairy?
For health, a produce rich diet is best. I like the Mediterranean diet.
I do yes. I do think produce rich is best as well, and you would think that being vegetarian mine would be, but I think I rely too much on beans and rice and carbs. I really need to get my *kitten* together and do it right.
You could try a trial of eliminating all dairy if you’re having issues with inflammation. Starchy carbs and legumes are great, but for inflammation you want high antioxidant foods.
I think the approach of killing free radicals with antioxidants should be instead, the prevention of free radical formation and taking that approach. Antioxidants are wonderful and all and they help to reduce ROS but are down stream from chronic oxidative stress (inflammation).
I'm still trying to understand this topic more but personally I think a caloric deficit is important on our health markers and lowers our CRP pretty quickly. Exercise, which sounds counterproductive but in reality shifts substrate metabolism in mitochondria, which apparently is vital. Also moderate exercise increases antioxidant activity and lowers oxidation of LDL's, protein and increases insulin sensitivity while reducing oxidative stress and inflammation. As far as diet is concerned a variety of fruits and vegetables along with fish is good to help get phytonutrients, including key vitamins and minerals, antioxidants and flavonoids. Probably a reduction of omega 6's with an increase of omega 3's from a fish source and not a plant source to help bring back a ratio that is less inflammatory. Sleep is really important and melatonin is a very powerful antioxidant so make sure the room is dark. Increased oxidative stress as we age may be in part due to a decline in the levels of cellular antioxidants, among them coenzyme Q10 declines significantly with age so a supplement might be looked at and supplementation of antioxidants looks grim in testing, so I wouldn't hang my hat on that. Cheers!2 -
neanderthin wrote: »OP, do you eat dairy?
For health, a produce rich diet is best. I like the Mediterranean diet.
I do yes. I do think produce rich is best as well, and you would think that being vegetarian mine would be, but I think I rely too much on beans and rice and carbs. I really need to get my *kitten* together and do it right.
You could try a trial of eliminating all dairy if you’re having issues with inflammation. Starchy carbs and legumes are great, but for inflammation you want high antioxidant foods.
I think the approach of killing free radicals with antioxidants should be instead, the prevention of free radical formation and taking that approach. Antioxidants are wonderful and all and they help to reduce ROS but are down stream from chronic oxidative stress (inflammation).
I'm still trying to understand this topic more but personally I think a caloric deficit is important on our health markers and lowers our CRP pretty quickly. Exercise, which sounds counterproductive but in reality shifts substrate metabolism in mitochondria, which apparently is vital. Also moderate exercise increases antioxidant activity and lowers oxidation of LDL's, protein and increases insulin sensitivity while reducing oxidative stress and inflammation. As far as diet is concerned a variety of fruits and vegetables along with fish is good to help get phytonutrients, including key vitamins and minerals, antioxidants and flavonoids. Probably a reduction of omega 6's with an increase of omega 3's from a fish source and not a plant source to help bring back a ratio that is less inflammatory. Sleep is really important and melatonin is a very powerful antioxidant so make sure the room is dark. Increased oxidative stress as we age may be in part due to a decline in the levels of cellular antioxidants, among them coenzyme Q10 declines significantly with age so a supplement might be looked at and supplementation of antioxidants looks grim in testing, so I wouldn't hang my hat on that. Cheers!
Those things are good too. I wasn’t suggesting an antioxidant supplement, but instead eating more antioxidant rich foods.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »OP, do you eat dairy?
For health, a produce rich diet is best. I like the Mediterranean diet.
I do yes. I do think produce rich is best as well, and you would think that being vegetarian mine would be, but I think I rely too much on beans and rice and carbs. I really need to get my *kitten* together and do it right.
You could try a trial of eliminating all dairy if you’re having issues with inflammation. Starchy carbs and legumes are great, but for inflammation you want high antioxidant foods.
I think the approach of killing free radicals with antioxidants should be instead, the prevention of free radical formation and taking that approach. Antioxidants are wonderful and all and they help to reduce ROS but are down stream from chronic oxidative stress (inflammation).
I'm still trying to understand this topic more but personally I think a caloric deficit is important on our health markers and lowers our CRP pretty quickly. Exercise, which sounds counterproductive but in reality shifts substrate metabolism in mitochondria, which apparently is vital. Also moderate exercise increases antioxidant activity and lowers oxidation of LDL's, protein and increases insulin sensitivity while reducing oxidative stress and inflammation. As far as diet is concerned a variety of fruits and vegetables along with fish is good to help get phytonutrients, including key vitamins and minerals, antioxidants and flavonoids. Probably a reduction of omega 6's with an increase of omega 3's from a fish source and not a plant source to help bring back a ratio that is less inflammatory. Sleep is really important and melatonin is a very powerful antioxidant so make sure the room is dark. Increased oxidative stress as we age may be in part due to a decline in the levels of cellular antioxidants, among them coenzyme Q10 declines significantly with age so a supplement might be looked at and supplementation of antioxidants looks grim in testing, so I wouldn't hang my hat on that. Cheers!
Those things are good too. I wasn’t suggesting an antioxidant supplement, but instead eating more antioxidant rich foods.
I just threw in the supplementation at the end and I meant no disrespect in what you said, which I agree with. You just got me thinking and I started typing. Cheers.2 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »OP, do you eat dairy?
For health, a produce rich diet is best. I like the Mediterranean diet.
I do yes. I do think produce rich is best as well, and you would think that being vegetarian mine would be, but I think I rely too much on beans and rice and carbs. I really need to get my *kitten* together and do it right.
You could try a trial of eliminating all dairy if you’re having issues with inflammation. Starchy carbs and legumes are great, but for inflammation you want high antioxidant foods.
I think the approach of killing free radicals with antioxidants should be instead, the prevention of free radical formation and taking that approach. Antioxidants are wonderful and all and they help to reduce ROS but are down stream from chronic oxidative stress (inflammation).
I'm still trying to understand this topic more but personally I think a caloric deficit is important on our health markers and lowers our CRP pretty quickly. Exercise, which sounds counterproductive but in reality shifts substrate metabolism in mitochondria, which apparently is vital. Also moderate exercise increases antioxidant activity and lowers oxidation of LDL's, protein and increases insulin sensitivity while reducing oxidative stress and inflammation. As far as diet is concerned a variety of fruits and vegetables along with fish is good to help get phytonutrients, including key vitamins and minerals, antioxidants and flavonoids. Probably a reduction of omega 6's with an increase of omega 3's from a fish source and not a plant source to help bring back a ratio that is less inflammatory. Sleep is really important and melatonin is a very powerful antioxidant so make sure the room is dark. Increased oxidative stress as we age may be in part due to a decline in the levels of cellular antioxidants, among them coenzyme Q10 declines significantly with age so a supplement might be looked at and supplementation of antioxidants looks grim in testing, so I wouldn't hang my hat on that. Cheers!
Those things are good too. I wasn’t suggesting an antioxidant supplement, but instead eating more antioxidant rich foods.
I just threw in the supplementation at the end and I meant no disrespect in what you said, which I agree with. You just got me thinking and I started typing. Cheers.
No worries. I especially like the part about sleep. It is so important and most people don’t get enough!1 -
Yeah for sure. Melatonin was pretty interesting to look at and I never knew you needed a dark room for it's production.1
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I don't get enough sleep. I used to sleep great for my whole life up until menopause, and now I just can't. I mean I hear all the time to "get enough sleep" but not sure how one is supposed to do that when their body and brain won't cooperate.
I fall asleep fine, within minutes. I almost always wake up 3-4 hours later and then either find it impossible to fall back asleep, or sleep on and off for the rest of the night.
@neanderthin I am taking various supplements and antioxidants for inflammation, and mitochondrial function etc.
Honestly just at the end of my rope with this. I appreciate the suggestions but nothing seems to work. I mean I did get some relief on an 8 week super strict low(ish) carb, no sugar, no alcohol, no diary, no soy, high antioxidant diet - but does that mean I have to stick to that for life? It just seems contrary to everything that is talked about here regarding moderation.
Maybe that is just the way it has to be for me.
5 -
I don't get enough sleep. I used to sleep great for my whole life up until menopause, and now I just can't. I mean I hear all the time to "get enough sleep" but not sure how one is supposed to do that when their body and brain won't cooperate.
I fall asleep fine, within minutes. I almost always wake up 3-4 hours later and then either find it impossible to fall back asleep, or sleep on and off for the rest of the night.
@neanderthin I am taking various supplements and antioxidants for inflammation, and mitochondrial function etc.
Honestly just at the end of my rope with this. I appreciate the suggestions but nothing seems to work. I mean I did get some relief on an 8 week super strict low(ish) carb, no sugar, no alcohol, no diary, no soy, high antioxidant diet - but does that mean I have to stick to that for life? It just seems contrary to everything that is talked about here regarding moderation.
Maybe that is just the way it has to be for me.
I empathize with you, my partner goes through a similar problem sleeping. Pot is legal in Canada, so she does that sometimes and seems to work, sometimes. Moderation, yeah it allows someone to continue without being excessive, and that can work for sure but sometimes it doesn't. Keep at it maybe separate the carb sources and only eat one. For example eat only vegetable carbs sources like sweet potato, potato, taro, yam, squash, see how you feel. Next try just grain carbs like pasta, bread and grits for example and soy on it's own. Who knows you may be able to narrow it down. All carbs are sugars as you know but keeping it down as much as possible so not to have a big effect on the innate immune responses ability to help reduce inflammation. Are you diabetic?1 -
neanderthin wrote: »I don't get enough sleep. I used to sleep great for my whole life up until menopause, and now I just can't. I mean I hear all the time to "get enough sleep" but not sure how one is supposed to do that when their body and brain won't cooperate.
I fall asleep fine, within minutes. I almost always wake up 3-4 hours later and then either find it impossible to fall back asleep, or sleep on and off for the rest of the night.
@neanderthin I am taking various supplements and antioxidants for inflammation, and mitochondrial function etc.
Honestly just at the end of my rope with this. I appreciate the suggestions but nothing seems to work. I mean I did get some relief on an 8 week super strict low(ish) carb, no sugar, no alcohol, no diary, no soy, high antioxidant diet - but does that mean I have to stick to that for life? It just seems contrary to everything that is talked about here regarding moderation.
Maybe that is just the way it has to be for me.
I empathize with you, my partner goes through a similar problem sleeping. Pot is legal in Canada, so she does that sometimes and seems to work, sometimes. Moderation, yeah it allows someone to continue without being excessive, and that can work for sure but sometimes it doesn't. Keep at it maybe separate the carb sources and only eat one. For example eat only vegetable carbs sources like sweet potato, potato, taro, yam, squash, see how you feel. Next try just grain carbs like pasta, bread and grits for example and soy on it's own. Who knows you may be able to narrow it down. All carbs are sugars as you know but keeping it down as much as possible so not to have a big effect on the innate immune responses ability to help reduce inflammation. Are you diabetic?
Good lord I hope not - I haven't been to the doctor in a while but have an appointment end of this month so I'll get my blood tested then and see if anything comes up.
I am in Canada as well so I could do the gummies or something, I have used it (edibles) on occasion when I am desperate for sleep.
I honestly did feel better when I was doing the restrictive diet, I have to admit it. I mean even my knee was better, the swelling was down, so I can infer from that that it did have an anti-inflammatory effect for me. It worked better for me, but then I slipped back to old habits because, not gonna lie, it is HARD to maintain. Not only that but this idea that restrictive diets are unhealthy makes me think I shouldn't have to do that to maintain my health, and I start second guessing myself.
I think I am gonna have to get back on that track, and like you suggested add in new stuff slowly and see how that works for me.2 -
neanderthin wrote: »I don't get enough sleep. I used to sleep great for my whole life up until menopause, and now I just can't. I mean I hear all the time to "get enough sleep" but not sure how one is supposed to do that when their body and brain won't cooperate.
I fall asleep fine, within minutes. I almost always wake up 3-4 hours later and then either find it impossible to fall back asleep, or sleep on and off for the rest of the night.
@neanderthin I am taking various supplements and antioxidants for inflammation, and mitochondrial function etc.
Honestly just at the end of my rope with this. I appreciate the suggestions but nothing seems to work. I mean I did get some relief on an 8 week super strict low(ish) carb, no sugar, no alcohol, no diary, no soy, high antioxidant diet - but does that mean I have to stick to that for life? It just seems contrary to everything that is talked about here regarding moderation.
Maybe that is just the way it has to be for me.
I empathize with you, my partner goes through a similar problem sleeping. Pot is legal in Canada, so she does that sometimes and seems to work, sometimes. Moderation, yeah it allows someone to continue without being excessive, and that can work for sure but sometimes it doesn't. Keep at it maybe separate the carb sources and only eat one. For example eat only vegetable carbs sources like sweet potato, potato, taro, yam, squash, see how you feel. Next try just grain carbs like pasta, bread and grits for example and soy on it's own. Who knows you may be able to narrow it down. All carbs are sugars as you know but keeping it down as much as possible so not to have a big effect on the innate immune responses ability to help reduce inflammation. Are you diabetic?
Good lord I hope not - I haven't been to the doctor in a while but have an appointment end of this month so I'll get my blood tested then and see if anything comes up.
I am in Canada as well so I could do the gummies or something, I have used it (edibles) on occasion when I am desperate for sleep.
I honestly did feel better when I was doing the restrictive diet, I have to admit it. I mean even my knee was better, the swelling was down, so I can infer from that that it did have an anti-inflammatory effect for me. It worked better for me, but then I slipped back to old habits because, not gonna lie, it is HARD to maintain. Not only that but this idea that restrictive diets are unhealthy makes me think I shouldn't have to do that to maintain my health, and I start second guessing myself.
I think I am gonna have to get back on that track, and like you suggested add in new stuff slowly and see how that works for me.
Restrictive diets can mean many things but if removing certain foods in a diet can improve a persons quality of life how would that be considered unhealthy? More and more dietitians and Dr's are suggesting for some individuals to reduce carbs in their diets. You can join a low carb group here for encouragement and recipe ideas.
Another area where chronic inflammation might be reduced is in your omega consumption. An improper balance of too much omega 6 mostly from refined seed oils with not enough omega3 from fish is considered proinflammatory and is very high in the average person in North America and that includes Canada. If your using a seed oil that's high in polyunsaturated fat (omega6) like corn, regular safflower, canola, soybean, vegetable oil you might want to switch to one higher in monounsaturated fat like avocado, olive oil and they have a high oleic safflower and sunflower oil. You can also use coconut oil. Consume more fish and if you don't like fish much try fish oil or krill oil.1
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