Extreme obesity and paper plates. Question for people in the USA
Replies
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cmriverside wrote: »So as someone who has very very rarely used paper plates - don’t they get soggy / struggle to hold a volume of food?? Can they cope with baked beans or a decent sized jacket spud for instance?
I grew up in boats and outdoors so we used disposable stuff a lot when I was young. These help:
https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Run-5493-Bamboo-Holders/dp/B001AT3KPW/ref=asc_df_B001AT3KPW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198090964233&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12487617596011253973&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033270&hvtargid=pla-318953024809&psc=1
Wow I’ve never come across those! They remind me the baskets you used to get chicken in, in pubs in the 80s 🤣 now that was a weird fad!1 -
cmriverside wrote: »So as someone who has very very rarely used paper plates - don’t they get soggy / struggle to hold a volume of food?? Can they cope with baked beans or a decent sized jacket spud for instance?
I grew up in boats and outdoors so we used disposable stuff a lot when I was young. These help:
https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Run-5493-Bamboo-Holders/dp/B001AT3KPW/
I've seen those. Trying to remember where. Wasn't blood relatives. Might have been my former in laws.0 -
And since this is also a hill I'm apparently willing to die on, whoever asked if that was being a bit dramatic, it's not to be taken literally. Just something the young'uns say now to say it's a cause they'll fight for.
Yes, it's just an expression, meaning this (the hill) may or may not be something I'm so invested in that I want to continue to fight ("die on") for it.
And it's not just a young 'un thing because I'm an oldie and it's one I've used a fair bit.
LOL is it? I'm old too but I still torture myself by going on fandom tumblr and that's where I learn all these phrases and start using them because I like them.1 -
cmriverside wrote: »This is such an awesome thread.
It's a fairly benign and unimportant question in the whole scheme of things that has now morphed into Moral High Ground and has gone on for five pages so far.
Don't ever change, MFP.
Really...moral high ground? I didn't get that at all. Some, including myself, just mentioned how this impacts our environment. If that is "moral high ground" than I apologize.
For me, it's because people are saying a person is lazy if they're capable of doing the washing but don't.
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And since this is also a hill I'm apparently willing to die on, whoever asked if that was being a bit dramatic, it's not to be taken literally. Just something the young'uns say now to say it's a cause they'll fight for.
Yes, it's just an expression, meaning this (the hill) may or may not be something I'm so invested in that I want to continue to fight ("die on") for it.
And it's not just a young 'un thing because I'm an oldie and it's one I've used a fair bit.
LOL is it? I'm old too but I still torture myself by going on fandom tumblr and that's where I learn all these phrases and start using them because I like them.
I don't mind going off topic on a less-than-serious thread...I think the phrase "not the hill I want to die on" and similar wording actually comes from military/war imagery. Looking it up, it's not conclusive, but possibly an allusion to the Battle of Hamburger Hill in the Vietnam War or to the general idea of capturing/holding ground in a battle no matter what the cost.2 -
This is a riot. I’m seeing posters here I haven’t seen in ages. 👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻 Hey y’all!!!!!
I don’t know that Income/better healthcare and weight are particularly related.
n=1 but In my own home, we were/are both obese, good income, easy access to health care. I look around my upper income empty nester neighborhood and there’s quite a bit of obesity. (Also want to insert, Mr Spring and I both drive identical, what most consider to be, crap cars. By choice. I used to get a lot of “fat lady in micro car” eye rolls.)
What really makes me nuts……
We seldom get takeout from nicer restaurants, but when we do, OMG the amount of packing and plastic ware is insane. I actually avoid takeout from these places because I feel obligated to save and reuse the elaborate black plastic trays with the clear lids, and the plastic Tupperware type tubs. You can’t microwave them, so even if you do reuse them, you still have to move the contents into microwaveable dishes, which negates the entire point of saving them in the first place.
We have several dozen restaurants within a couple of blocks of us. I frequently see neighbors I KNOW are just the two of them coming back with carry-on sized bags of food in fancy heavy duty brown paper bags with handles (another pet peeve- can’t recycle them for, say, gift bags, because there’s advertising all over them).
I wish restaurants would get away from the elaborate overpackaging of takeout meals. It’s like back in the day, when CDs came in jewel cases that in turn came in honking big clamshells or even bigger jewel cases.4 -
springlering62 wrote: »This is a riot. I’m seeing posters here I haven’t seen in ages. 👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻 Hey y’all!!!!!
I don’t know that Income/better healthcare and weight are particularly related.
n=1 but In my own home, we were/are both obese, good income, easy access to health care. I look around my upper income empty nester neighborhood and there’s quite a bit of obesity. (Also want to insert, Mr Spring and I both drive identical, what most consider to be, crap cars. By choice. I used to get a lot of “fat lady in micro car” eye rolls.)
What really makes me nuts……
We seldom get takeout from nicer restaurants, but when we do, OMG the amount of packing and plastic ware is insane. I actually avoid takeout from these places because I feel obligated to save and reuse the elaborate black plastic trays with the clear lids, and the plastic Tupperware type tubs. You can’t microwave them, so even if you do reuse them, you still have to move the contents into microwaveable dishes, which negates the entire point of saving them in the first place.
We have several dozen restaurants within a couple of blocks of us. I frequently see neighbors I KNOW are just the two of them coming back with carry-on sized bags of food in fancy heavy duty brown paper bags with handles (another pet peeve- can’t recycle them for, say, gift bags, because there’s advertising all over them).
I wish restaurants would get away from the elaborate overpackaging of takeout meals. It’s like back in the day, when CDs came in jewel cases that in turn came in honking big clamshells or even bigger jewel cases.
I'm working on requesting that I NOT get plasticware. I do remember this for online orders, but not for phone orders. Meanwhile, I've been saving it for when we finally start doing big family BBQ again. And I can also use plasticware in the garden to put around new small plants so my cat won't sit on them
Before my partner's mother went into a nursing home and I had my own place, I used to cook a few meals per week for her and would send them over in saved plastic food containers. I also use them when I am bringing large amounts of food to my mother's (and it is not something acidic, which I put in glass.)
And I also use them when I am giving away excess strawberry plants.
Despite all this, and the fact that we don't get takeout very often, some do need to be recycled.1 -
My thought is that the paper plates are already made. I can't unmake them and put the trees and water and whatever else back into nature, so why not use what's already there? I didn't know though that you can't recycle things that touch food, which basically makes my recycling bin obsolete. And in the greater scheme of things, since pretty much all food comes in a plastic tray or a plastic bag anyway, what does a paper plate matter on top of that?SuzySunshine99 wrote: »But…if people used less, then they would make less, no?I suppose I'm just unconvinced that the impact of 2-3 paper plates a week is going to upend the disposable food service product industry.
I could see making a difference with plastics--I honestly can't think of more than a handful of foods that don't come in plastic in some way, shape, or form. But at my level of consumption, I just don't see paper products as the ecological hill to die on.
When I order from Amazon, I order from smile.amazon.com, and a portion of my sale goes to the charity I selected. My contribution is insignificant, yes. However, I get a quarterly update and Amazon has just made a $21,647 donation to that charity, which IS significant.
Back to our topic - if people used less, they would make less.
We saw the reverse with retail toilet paper last year - people were suddenly using less industrial TP at work and needing more retail TP at home, so Charmin, etc., had to ramp up production to meet that new demand.6 -
I use paper plates a few times a year when we have a bunch of people over. That's it. We have a dishwasher, and I would feel odd using resources like that.5
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claireychn074 wrote: »I’m not going to chime in on the environmental side or the moral high ground side (great reading though!), but the cost thing is interesting. In the UK water meters are fairly new (as in, last 10-20 yrs in most places) so we used to pay a flat rate for our water. As a kid we would never have had paper or plastic plates or utensils as that would have been expensive - parents would have baulked at paying for stuff like that when we had perfectly good plates at home.
So as someone who has very very rarely used paper plates - don’t they get soggy / struggle to hold a volume of food?? Can they cope with baked beans or a decent sized jacket spud for instance?
In the U.S., anyway, there are different quality products at different price points, and roughly/generally, if you pay more, you can some that are thicker/stiff and will hold up to baked beans and baked potatoes (aka jacket spuds). The cheaper ones are likely to be thinner and more suited to a burger on a bun and some chips (that is, crisps, not fries).3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Fatgonegirl wrote: »There are some extremely interesting posts on the thread.
I asked the question because I was genuinely interested to know the prevalence of disposable crockery and cutlery. From this unscientific, unrepresentative and not statistically significant snapshot, it does seem that the use of paper plates is more common in the USA than in the UK. Coming from a very damp small island, it did not occur to me that obtaining water for washing up could be a problem. So I have learnt something.
Full disclosure, I have some paper plates in my kitchen cupboard leftover from the BBQ season. They are likely to site there until next summer.
I don't know if I dare say - Another surprise watching My 600lb life is that judging from the nature and condition of their homes, many of the participants live in poverty. I suppose this is because they can not work due to their size and are in receipt of benefits. Nevertheless, they often (although not always) own very nice cars.
I'm guessing a car is provided by the show if there is no suitable vehicle owned.
I have never watched this show, but I am having a hard time imagining someone who weighs 600 lbs fitting inside a car, much less behind the wheel and able to drive it. Or is 600 lb life not meant literally? Are there a lot of contestants* below 400 lbs (which is about the point where my imagination can't picture someone being able to drive).
600 lbs is indeed literal, some have been heavier. I don't think any participants have started the show below 500 lbs.
Not all can drive but many do fit into vehicles, usually minivans or pickups, but I've seen a few sedans too. Depends a lot on the distribution of the excess weight.
I guess so. Even at a little over 200 lbs, it felt like the bottom of the steering wheel was barely clearing my lower abdomen, but I guess being a little below average height for a woman and having to have the seat forward to reach the foot pedals played a part in that. But I don't feel that way after losing weight, and I haven't got any taller
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And since this is also a hill I'm apparently willing to die on, whoever asked if that was being a bit dramatic, it's not to be taken literally. Just something the young'uns say now to say it's a cause they'll fight for.
Yes, it's just an expression, meaning this (the hill) may or may not be something I'm so invested in that I want to continue to fight ("die on") for it.
And it's not just a young 'un thing because I'm an oldie and it's one I've used a fair bit.
Was going to say the same thing about the phrase having been around all of my adult life (say, going back 40 years). In more recent years, I've seen it more in the context of advice columnists questioning whether someone who is dug is on some issue in their relationships is "over" invested in something (like an SO's preference for paper plates) and that they should consider whether this is an issue they want to die on, or more accurately, want the relationship to die on -- as opposed to seeing the idiom used with respect to broader "causes." But that could reflect the fact that I read more advice columns than Twitter etc. posts (and that my consumption of written words vastly outweighs my consumption of spoken words, even before the last 18 months).0 -
cmriverside wrote: »So as someone who has very very rarely used paper plates - don’t they get soggy / struggle to hold a volume of food?? Can they cope with baked beans or a decent sized jacket spud for instance?
I grew up in boats and outdoors so we used disposable stuff a lot when I was young. These help:
https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Run-5493-Bamboo-Holders/dp/B001AT3KPW/ref=asc_df_B001AT3KPW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198090964233&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12487617596011253973&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033270&hvtargid=pla-318953024809&psc=1
I've used those, but I can't remember at whose home. We never had them ourselves, but they do seem like a great idea if you eat off paper plates regularly, especially outdoors and in locations where you can't depend on having a table to set your plate on.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »springlering62 wrote: »This is a riot. I’m seeing posters here I haven’t seen in ages. 👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻 Hey y’all!!!!!
I don’t know that Income/better healthcare and weight are particularly related.
n=1 but In my own home, we were/are both obese, good income, easy access to health care. I look around my upper income empty nester neighborhood and there’s quite a bit of obesity. (Also want to insert, Mr Spring and I both drive identical, what most consider to be, crap cars. By choice. I used to get a lot of “fat lady in micro car” eye rolls.)
What really makes me nuts……
We seldom get takeout from nicer restaurants, but when we do, OMG the amount of packing and plastic ware is insane. I actually avoid takeout from these places because I feel obligated to save and reuse the elaborate black plastic trays with the clear lids, and the plastic Tupperware type tubs. You can’t microwave them, so even if you do reuse them, you still have to move the contents into microwaveable dishes, which negates the entire point of saving them in the first place.
We have several dozen restaurants within a couple of blocks of us. I frequently see neighbors I KNOW are just the two of them coming back with carry-on sized bags of food in fancy heavy duty brown paper bags with handles (another pet peeve- can’t recycle them for, say, gift bags, because there’s advertising all over them).
I wish restaurants would get away from the elaborate overpackaging of takeout meals. It’s like back in the day, when CDs came in jewel cases that in turn came in honking big clamshells or even bigger jewel cases.
I'm working on requesting that I NOT get plasticware. I do remember this for online orders, but not for phone orders. Meanwhile, I've been saving it for when we finally start doing big family BBQ again. And I can also use plasticware in the garden to put around new small plants so my cat won't sit on them
Before my partner's mother went into a nursing home and I had my own place, I used to cook a few meals per week for her and would send them over in saved plastic food containers. I also use them when I am bringing large amounts of food to my mother's (and it is not something acidic, which I put in glass.)
And I also use them when I am giving away excess strawberry plants.
Despite all this, and the fact that we don't get takeout very often, some do need to be recycled.
I'm doing the same, and also for plastic straws. I don't even like drinking from straws, although I will use them for cold drinks that I get when I stop on a long road trip so I don't have to fumble with a lid while I'm driving. I order from apps a bit, and most don't have anyway to request no straws or plasticware, and things are already packaged with the plasticware by the time you get there.
I have a big plastic bag (that came with carryout food packed into it) filled with plasticware I've accumulated during the pandemic, that is individually packed into sealed plastic bags, waiting for me to find a soup kitchen or the like that will take it.0 -
cmriverside wrote: »This is such an awesome thread.
It's a fairly benign and unimportant question in the whole scheme of things that has now morphed into Moral High Ground and has gone on for five pages so far.
Don't ever change, MFP.
Really...moral high ground? I didn't get that at all. Some, including myself, just mentioned how this impacts our environment. If that is "moral high ground" than I apologize.
If you choose plain (not coated with plastic) paper plates the impact on the environment isn’t as bad. And if you toss them in your home compost bin? So much the better.seltzermint555 wrote: »I live in the center of the USA and honestly know so many people who use paper plates EVERY DAY. Most of them do use metal flatware though. I truly don't get it. Especially when they post photos of "fancy" meals they made - then served on a dang paper plate. It's a personal pet peeve, to be honest, even though I know it's really none of my concern.
We use proper plates and cloth napkins though, always. I buy paper plates maybe one time per year for a casual birthday dinner and it's just to put the cake on...usually small colorful ones. And that's only if we're going to be outdoors or at someone else's home and I don't want to put the extra work on them of washing small plates.
I don't really see a connection to obesity, just laziness and lack of concern for resources/wastefulness.
I don’t think it’s laziness. Not for the vast majority of people who choose to use paper plates. So many people have outlined very good reasons why someone might choose paper plates.
I used to use cloth napkins and real plates all the time. Disability put an end to the cloth napkins. And halfway to the use of real plates too.
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claireychn074 wrote: »I’m not going to chime in on the environmental side or the moral high ground side (great reading though!), but the cost thing is interesting. In the UK water meters are fairly new (as in, last 10-20 yrs in most places) so we used to pay a flat rate for our water. As a kid we would never have had paper or plastic plates or utensils as that would have been expensive - parents would have baulked at paying for stuff like that when we had perfectly good plates at home.
So as someone who has very very rarely used paper plates - don’t they get soggy / struggle to hold a volume of food?? Can they cope with baked beans or a decent sized jacket spud for instance?
There are degrees of thickness so, yeah, some can hold heavier items and not have food p,opping onto the ground or something. A commercial comes to mind, I think it was for Hefty, that shows just that.
And since this is also a hill I'm apparently willing to die on, whoever asked if that was being a bit dramatic, it's not to be taken literally. Just something the young'uns say now to say it's a cause they'll fight for.
that was me who said it was a bit of a melodramatic phrase - yes I realise of course that it wasnt meant literally - but still seemed to me a tad over dramatic turn of phrase for the topic.
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My partner (who I love dearly) is lazy about recycling. While this is a judgement (I judge him to be lazy about recycling) morality doesn't come into it. I may have the recycling high ground, however. 5
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callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So as someone who has very very rarely used paper plates - don’t they get soggy / struggle to hold a volume of food?? Can they cope with baked beans or a decent sized jacket spud for instance?
I grew up in boats and outdoors so we used disposable stuff a lot when I was young. These help:
https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Run-5493-Bamboo-Holders/dp/B001AT3KPW/ref=asc_df_B001AT3KPW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198090964233&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12487617596011253973&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033270&hvtargid=pla-318953024809&psc=1
i remember those!
I still have these lol. I don't use them though.0 -
BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Fatgonegirl wrote: »There are some extremely interesting posts on the thread.
I asked the question because I was genuinely interested to know the prevalence of disposable crockery and cutlery. From this unscientific, unrepresentative and not statistically significant snapshot, it does seem that the use of paper plates is more common in the USA than in the UK. Coming from a very damp small island, it did not occur to me that obtaining water for washing up could be a problem. So I have learnt something.
Full disclosure, I have some paper plates in my kitchen cupboard leftover from the BBQ season. They are likely to site there until next summer.
I don't know if I dare say - Another surprise watching My 600lb life is that judging from the nature and condition of their homes, many of the participants live in poverty. I suppose this is because they can not work due to their size and are in receipt of benefits. Nevertheless, they often (although not always) own very nice cars.
I'm guessing due to lack of a paper industry and the cost of importing paper products would make paper plates unpopular in the UK just due to the cost.
Check your facts before pontificating on a subject you know nothing about!
“The United Kingdom has a long history in the paper industry, with the world's first mechanical paper machine installed at the Frogmore Paper Mill in 1803. While today the UK is not one of the world's largest paper-producing countries, the industry still plays an important role in the economy. Tens of thousands of people across the country are employed in the manufacturing of paper and paper products, with UK paper manufacturing bringing in 3.4 billion British pounds of gross value added. ”
https://www.statista.com/topics/6371/paper-industry-uk/#topicHeader__wrapper
It eternally surprises me how much people just assume there's little to no papermaking industry in the UK. Back during the toilet roll shortage I had an acquaintance say to me (as part of a group conversation), with seriously levels of authority: "And of course all the toilet rolls are shipped over from China" which I responded with "no they're not, they're made in Bridgend" (I wish I had been wittier). But the shear level of confidence that he made this statement that he clearly had no idea about still baffles me. I think that many people just assume that the UK doesn't do large scale manufacture anymore.4 -
paperpudding wrote: »claireychn074 wrote: »I’m not going to chime in on the environmental side or the moral high ground side (great reading though!), but the cost thing is interesting. In the UK water meters are fairly new (as in, last 10-20 yrs in most places) so we used to pay a flat rate for our water. As a kid we would never have had paper or plastic plates or utensils as that would have been expensive - parents would have baulked at paying for stuff like that when we had perfectly good plates at home.
So as someone who has very very rarely used paper plates - don’t they get soggy / struggle to hold a volume of food?? Can they cope with baked beans or a decent sized jacket spud for instance?
There are degrees of thickness so, yeah, some can hold heavier items and not have food p,opping onto the ground or something. A commercial comes to mind, I think it was for Hefty, that shows just that.
And since this is also a hill I'm apparently willing to die on, whoever asked if that was being a bit dramatic, it's not to be taken literally. Just something the young'uns say now to say it's a cause they'll fight for.
that was me who said it was a bit of a melodramatic phrase - yes I realise of course that it wasnt meant literally - but still seemed to me a tad over dramatic turn of phrase for the topic.
The phrase may sound dramatic, but like many idioms that does not really translate into it's actual meaning. The phrase itself mean to continue to defend one's position, even in the face of serious opposition (it doesn't imply that you may lose this fight, or win it, it's just that each sides have strong opinions). And some googling would suggest that this phrase is used for important things, but I have only heard it used in less than serious context. In fact, it's part of the joke that it sound very serious for a not very serious thing. It kind of acknowledging that you are aware that this thing is fairly trivial or doesn't matter.
So you would hear someone say "Burger King fries are better than McDonalds' fries, and that is a hill I'm willing to die on", but you'd never hear a protester use the phrase because it implies triviality.
It normally comes towards the end of a discussion and it kind of self recognises that both parties have been discussing this topic for a while, and that really it doesn't matter and why on earth do each party have such a strong opinion and it recognises the silliness of the whole situation.6
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