Lowering LDL through diet alone?

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Replies

  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,842 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.

    I follow the evidence based community, and even they think there are applications for Keto as long as you don't just live on butter and bacon. Weight management and exercise are the two biggest players in metabolic health. That is why there are people from every diet community that improve their metabolic health. There are also examples from every community of horrible execution that can adversely effect healthy.

    I understand the correlations of LDL to CVD. Not only from the evidence based community, but from talking to cardiologist, electrophysiologist, and many other doctors, which includes friends who are University of Penn trained cardiologist.

    This post was specifically about LDL and no cardiologists are recommending diets high in animal fat for improving one’s numbers.

    Sure. If that is what you believe.

    Also to add, if you look at what was written, you can have a high fat diet that isn't loaded with a ton of SFA. Focusing on fatty fish, avocados, olives, dairy, eggs, chia/flax, and nuts/seeds is a great way to healthy fats. Sticky with leaner meats is also a food way to address the issue.

    Be a little less myopic with your belief on what a keto diet is. When i do keto, i eat an avocado almost every day. I add in low fat dairy, eggs chia seeds, cook in avocado oil and use cheese (especially goat feta), and olives.

    Many of those sources you mentioned are plant based. I mentioned healthy fats as being beneficial in my initial post, and that includes fat from fish. I specifically mentioned saturated fats being bad for cholesterol. I’m not sure why you are trying to argue because you actually proved my point just now. Having beliefs rooted in science is not being myopic.
  • wilson10102018
    wilson10102018 Posts: 1,306 Member
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9430080/

    Abstract

    The misperception that dietary cholesterol determines blood cholesterol is held by many consumers in spite of evidence to the contrary. Many studies reported over the past 2 years have shown that dietary cholesterol is not a significant factor in an individual's plasma cholesterol level or cardiovascular disease (CVD) risk.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.

    I follow the evidence based community, and even they think there are applications for Keto as long as you don't just live on butter and bacon. Weight management and exercise are the two biggest players in metabolic health. That is why there are people from every diet community that improve their metabolic health. There are also examples from every community of horrible execution that can adversely effect healthy.

    I understand the correlations of LDL to CVD. Not only from the evidence based community, but from talking to cardiologist, electrophysiologist, and many other doctors, which includes friends who are University of Penn trained cardiologist.

    This post was specifically about LDL and no cardiologists are recommending diets high in animal fat for improving one’s numbers.

    Sure. If that is what you believe.

    Also to add, if you look at what was written, you can have a high fat diet that isn't loaded with a ton of SFA. Focusing on fatty fish, avocados, olives, dairy, eggs, chia/flax, and nuts/seeds is a great way to healthy fats. Sticky with leaner meats is also a food way to address the issue.

    Be a little less myopic with your belief on what a keto diet is. When i do keto, i eat an avocado almost every day. I add in low fat dairy, eggs chia seeds, cook in avocado oil and use cheese (especially goat feta), and olives.

    Many of those sources you mentioned are plant based. I mentioned healthy fats as being beneficial in my initial post, and that includes fat from fish. I specifically mentioned saturated fats being bad for cholesterol. I’m not sure why you are trying to argue because you actually proved my point just now. Having beliefs rooted in science is not being myopic.

    Because its more complicated than that. Not all saturated fats have the same impact and individuals have different response. For example full fat yogurt doesn't have the same impact as butter or coconut oil.

    The argument is against your oversimplification and overdramatization of SFA/high fat diets. Not all SFA are the same, and not all individuals react the same. Weight loss and exercise need to be prioritized. And then changing out fat sources can be beneficial.

    The nonsense of high fat diets are bad, is another oversimplification. You can have a very high fat diet if you are balancing between PUFA and SFA and still getting in fiber. There is a thing called a Mediterranean ketogenic diet.

    And even in the video below, it doesn't get into the various responses and impacts when you move from a ribeye to a sirloin and/ strip.

    It also doesn't get into the fact that some individuals don't do well on high carb diets and transition more to a plant based diet would be detrimental to their ability to sustain their weight loss and worsen their health. My body doesn't respond well to high carb diets.

    Nutrition and metabolic health is nuanced. It's why i would recommend exercising and changing out the fat sources a bit before coming off a diet that has been successful.


  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,842 Member
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9430080/

    Abstract

    The misperception that dietary cholesterol determines blood cholesterol is held by many consumers in spite of evidence to the contrary. Many studies reported over the past 2 years have shown that dietary cholesterol is not a significant factor in an individual's plasma cholesterol level or cardiovascular disease (CVD) risk.

    Yes this is true.
  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,842 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.

    I follow the evidence based community, and even they think there are applications for Keto as long as you don't just live on butter and bacon. Weight management and exercise are the two biggest players in metabolic health. That is why there are people from every diet community that improve their metabolic health. There are also examples from every community of horrible execution that can adversely effect healthy.

    I understand the correlations of LDL to CVD. Not only from the evidence based community, but from talking to cardiologist, electrophysiologist, and many other doctors, which includes friends who are University of Penn trained cardiologist.

    This post was specifically about LDL and no cardiologists are recommending diets high in animal fat for improving one’s numbers.

    Sure. If that is what you believe.

    Also to add, if you look at what was written, you can have a high fat diet that isn't loaded with a ton of SFA. Focusing on fatty fish, avocados, olives, dairy, eggs, chia/flax, and nuts/seeds is a great way to healthy fats. Sticky with leaner meats is also a food way to address the issue.

    Be a little less myopic with your belief on what a keto diet is. When i do keto, i eat an avocado almost every day. I add in low fat dairy, eggs chia seeds, cook in avocado oil and use cheese (especially goat feta), and olives.

    Many of those sources you mentioned are plant based. I mentioned healthy fats as being beneficial in my initial post, and that includes fat from fish. I specifically mentioned saturated fats being bad for cholesterol. I’m not sure why you are trying to argue because you actually proved my point just now. Having beliefs rooted in science is not being myopic.

    Because its more complicated than that. Not all saturated fats have the same impact and individuals have different response. For example full fat yogurt doesn't have the same impact as butter or coconut oil.

    The argument is against your oversimplification and overdramatization of SFA/high fat diets. Not all SFA are the same, and not all individuals react the same. Weight loss and exercise need to be prioritized. And then changing out fat sources can be beneficial.

    The nonsense of high fat diets are bad, is another oversimplification. You can have a very high fat diet if you are balancing between PUFA and SFA and still getting in fiber. There is a thing called a Mediterranean ketogenic diet.

    And even in the video below, it doesn't get into the various responses and impacts when you move from a ribeye to a sirloin and/ strip.

    It also doesn't get into the fact that some individuals don't do well on high carb diets and transition more to a plant based diet would be detrimental to their ability to sustain their weight loss and worsen their health. My body doesn't respond well to high carb diets.

    Nutrition and metabolic health is nuanced. It's why i would recommend exercising and changing out the fat sources a bit before coming off a diet that has been successful.



    What i said is true for the majority of people, and to be honest, most people I have observed are eating tons of animal fat on keto and little fiber. Generally speaking, diets high in saturated fat are bad for managing LDL cholesterol. That is a fact and I stand by it along with the vast majority of the medical community.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.

    I follow the evidence based community, and even they think there are applications for Keto as long as you don't just live on butter and bacon. Weight management and exercise are the two biggest players in metabolic health. That is why there are people from every diet community that improve their metabolic health. There are also examples from every community of horrible execution that can adversely effect healthy.

    I understand the correlations of LDL to CVD. Not only from the evidence based community, but from talking to cardiologist, electrophysiologist, and many other doctors, which includes friends who are University of Penn trained cardiologist.

    This post was specifically about LDL and no cardiologists are recommending diets high in animal fat for improving one’s numbers.

    Sure. If that is what you believe.

    Also to add, if you look at what was written, you can have a high fat diet that isn't loaded with a ton of SFA. Focusing on fatty fish, avocados, olives, dairy, eggs, chia/flax, and nuts/seeds is a great way to healthy fats. Sticky with leaner meats is also a food way to address the issue.

    Be a little less myopic with your belief on what a keto diet is. When i do keto, i eat an avocado almost every day. I add in low fat dairy, eggs chia seeds, cook in avocado oil and use cheese (especially goat feta), and olives.

    Many of those sources you mentioned are plant based. I mentioned healthy fats as being beneficial in my initial post, and that includes fat from fish. I specifically mentioned saturated fats being bad for cholesterol. I’m not sure why you are trying to argue because you actually proved my point just now. Having beliefs rooted in science is not being myopic.

    Because its more complicated than that. Not all saturated fats have the same impact and individuals have different response. For example full fat yogurt doesn't have the same impact as butter or coconut oil.

    The argument is against your oversimplification and overdramatization of SFA/high fat diets. Not all SFA are the same, and not all individuals react the same. Weight loss and exercise need to be prioritized. And then changing out fat sources can be beneficial.

    The nonsense of high fat diets are bad, is another oversimplification. You can have a very high fat diet if you are balancing between PUFA and SFA and still getting in fiber. There is a thing called a Mediterranean ketogenic diet.

    And even in the video below, it doesn't get into the various responses and impacts when you move from a ribeye to a sirloin and/ strip.

    It also doesn't get into the fact that some individuals don't do well on high carb diets and transition more to a plant based diet would be detrimental to their ability to sustain their weight loss and worsen their health. My body doesn't respond well to high carb diets.

    Nutrition and metabolic health is nuanced. It's why i would recommend exercising and changing out the fat sources a bit before coming off a diet that has been successful.



    What i said is true for the majority of people, and to be honest, most people I have observed are eating tons of animal fat on keto and little fiber. Generally speaking, diets high in saturated fat are bad for managing LDL cholesterol. That is a fact and I stand by it along with the vast majority of the medical community.

    You work in a field that people often don't come unless they are already sick. That is why studies are important, as it looks beyond a single population. Its why, outside of expert opinion, that observational data is the least powerful.

    You go to a gym where bodybuilders are using high protein keto diets and you won't observe the same thing.

    Anyways, i digress as it doesn't seem to align to the posters situation. She eats lean foods and doesn't exercise, has long weight and needs to lose more. Plus blood works was right after dieting. And it was a single test having LDL at 147, which isn't too terrible.

    Exercise should be added, especially resistance training, continuation of weight loss, and wait until they are several months outside of weight loss to evaluate blood markers. The poster can also add in avocado, nuts and more fatty fish. She doesn't need to go off keto unless it doesn't suit her goals.
  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,842 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.

    I follow the evidence based community, and even they think there are applications for Keto as long as you don't just live on butter and bacon. Weight management and exercise are the two biggest players in metabolic health. That is why there are people from every diet community that improve their metabolic health. There are also examples from every community of horrible execution that can adversely effect healthy.

    I understand the correlations of LDL to CVD. Not only from the evidence based community, but from talking to cardiologist, electrophysiologist, and many other doctors, which includes friends who are University of Penn trained cardiologist.

    This post was specifically about LDL and no cardiologists are recommending diets high in animal fat for improving one’s numbers.

    Sure. If that is what you believe.

    Also to add, if you look at what was written, you can have a high fat diet that isn't loaded with a ton of SFA. Focusing on fatty fish, avocados, olives, dairy, eggs, chia/flax, and nuts/seeds is a great way to healthy fats. Sticky with leaner meats is also a food way to address the issue.

    Be a little less myopic with your belief on what a keto diet is. When i do keto, i eat an avocado almost every day. I add in low fat dairy, eggs chia seeds, cook in avocado oil and use cheese (especially goat feta), and olives.

    Many of those sources you mentioned are plant based. I mentioned healthy fats as being beneficial in my initial post, and that includes fat from fish. I specifically mentioned saturated fats being bad for cholesterol. I’m not sure why you are trying to argue because you actually proved my point just now. Having beliefs rooted in science is not being myopic.

    Because its more complicated than that. Not all saturated fats have the same impact and individuals have different response. For example full fat yogurt doesn't have the same impact as butter or coconut oil.

    The argument is against your oversimplification and overdramatization of SFA/high fat diets. Not all SFA are the same, and not all individuals react the same. Weight loss and exercise need to be prioritized. And then changing out fat sources can be beneficial.

    The nonsense of high fat diets are bad, is another oversimplification. You can have a very high fat diet if you are balancing between PUFA and SFA and still getting in fiber. There is a thing called a Mediterranean ketogenic diet.

    And even in the video below, it doesn't get into the various responses and impacts when you move from a ribeye to a sirloin and/ strip.

    It also doesn't get into the fact that some individuals don't do well on high carb diets and transition more to a plant based diet would be detrimental to their ability to sustain their weight loss and worsen their health. My body doesn't respond well to high carb diets.

    Nutrition and metabolic health is nuanced. It's why i would recommend exercising and changing out the fat sources a bit before coming off a diet that has been successful.



    What i said is true for the majority of people, and to be honest, most people I have observed are eating tons of animal fat on keto and little fiber. Generally speaking, diets high in saturated fat are bad for managing LDL cholesterol. That is a fact and I stand by it along with the vast majority of the medical community.

    You work in a field that people often don't come unless they are already sick. That is why studies are important, as it looks beyond a single population. Its why, outside of expert opinion, that observational data is the least powerful.

    You go to a gym where bodybuilders are using high protein keto diets and you won't observe the same thing.

    Anyways, i digress as it doesn't seem to align to the posters situation. She eats lean foods and doesn't exercise, has long weight and needs to lose more. Plus blood works was right after dieting. And it was a single test having LDL at 147, which isn't too terrible.

    Exercise should be added, especially resistance training, continuation of weight loss, and wait until they are several months outside of weight loss to evaluate blood markers. The poster can also add in avocado, nuts and more fatty fish. She doesn't need to go off keto unless it doesn't suit her goals.

    My comments and opinions are based on evidence and scientific research. That’s where the medical community gets it’s standards. Promoting diets high in animal fat to someone wanting to lower their cholesterol is irresponsible.
  • Bridgie3
    Bridgie3 Posts: 139 Member
    edited February 14
    yes yes yes yes yes. Go watch sugar, the bitter truth. I've watched it maybe five times now; they take you through how your body makes cholesterol in your liver out of

    FRUCTOSE. Lol.

    You have 2 types of LDL, one is floaty and made of animal fat, and it just floats around your blood stream. it's fine. The one you make, as part of metabolising sugar, is heavy and dense and sticks to the edges of your blood vessels.

    I'm diabetic, having eaten far too much sugar all my life (was raised on a low/no fat diet) and now am eating high fat. I am getting over half my calories from fat. I am eating maybe 35% calories from protein (trying to lower that) and as little as possible from carbs. My LDL is lowering, my fatty liver is going, my diabetes is ... on the way to control.

    My brother introduced me to Freestyle Libre, a mechanism where you shove a needle in your arm that is stuck in there for 2 weeks (doesn't hurt) and you can read it with a reader for 2 weeks, whenever you like, and track your blood sugar. He found himself insulin resistant, he thought. I sure am: I'm diabetic type 2 now...

    Anyway my brother went on a bacon diet. no exercise, no veges, no carbs. Just bacon. for a month. Went to see the doctor. Cholesterol down, weight down by 10kg, fatty liver down. Doctor couldn't grasp it. All the bacon, no exercise, no nothing, just bacon.

    Doctors seem to be behind on the 'fat is good sugar is bad' thing. The science has arrived, but there seems to be lag. EG my doctor will nod when I talk about making triglycerides in my liver, but then say to switch to low fat milk instead of full fat. Or not eat chicken skin. EAt the chicken skin! avoid breast meat! (low fat).

    Mum has alzheimers. Aka diabetes type 3. Lack of fat in her diet meant fat carried hormones didn't get carried to her brain. She was on statins, she was on everything for cholesterol. Sticky plaque on her brain from sticky side products of eating sugar.

    :) I'm seldom hungry. it's amazing. And in the first month I lost 10 kg.
  • xrj22
    xrj22 Posts: 138 Member
    It depends. You said that you lost 31 lbs in 13 weeks. If that brought you pretty much to your goal weight, then I'm guessing there may still be some improvement in the next couple months just by maintaining what you are doing, but not a lot. However, if you have more weight to loose, you may see significant improvement as you loose more weight. I think your results are really impressive, and would be encouraged by such big changes in just a few months; not discouraged that they aren't in the normal range yet. My own experience was that I brought total cholesterol from 246 to 160 in 4 months with loosing 35 lbs and switching from a rather poor diet to nearly vegan, very low fat. My numbers stayed good as long as I kept eating healthy and stayed at that weight. (I'm back now because I didn't totally keep it up). My numbers didn't keep going down after the first re-check, but I think that is because I was in the healthy range for both weight and numbers by that point.