Lowering LDL through diet alone?

13

Replies

  • NYPhotographer2021
    NYPhotographer2021 Posts: 502 Member
    Thank you @cwolfman13 I've lost 40 pounds through diet alone, and haven't really exercised. You've given me the push to start exercising now. I have 20 more pounds to go before reaching goal weight of 150. I've put off exercising due to bad hips, knees, ankles & lower back. But I think I've lost enough to ease the strain on those areas. And I'm so happy to go back to whole eggs! My next blood work isn't until June, so hopefully I can bring those levels to normal.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 40,988 Member
    Thank you @cwolfman13 I've lost 40 pounds through diet alone, and haven't really exercised. You've given me the push to start exercising now. I have 20 more pounds to go before reaching goal weight of 150. I've put off exercising due to bad hips, knees, ankles & lower back. But I think I've lost enough to ease the strain on those areas. And I'm so happy to go back to whole eggs! My next blood work isn't until June, so hopefully I can bring those levels to normal.

    It is very possible that losing 40 Lbs will go a long way in helping resolve those cholesterol issues as visceral fat around the organs is the easiest to lose and typically goes first (one of the reasons a lot of people can't visually see weight loss early on), and it's that visceral fat that really leads to health issues.

    Exercise wise, one of the reasons I primarily cycle and walk is because it's low impact. I also used to have a lot of issues with my knees and other things...nothing diagnosed...but once I started moving more and using my body (ease into it) those things slowly started to disappear.

    Diet wise, I also make sure I get plenty of fiber, including soluble fiber. Soluble fiber can be harder to come by generally, but it is found in relatively high amounts in things like oats, apples, and supplements like Metamucil and other fruits high in pectin. I also eat plenty of veg and a couple servings of fruit daily. I keep my proteins fairly lean for the most part...lots of chicken cooked in various ways and fish (I generally eat fish 3 or more times per week)...beef and pork now and then. I eat almonds pretty much daily for my afternoon snack along with an apple and primarily use olive oil or avocado oil for cooking, which are high in Mono and Poly-unsaturated fats that are good for your heart.

    I live in the desert, so my fish consumption is usually a tuna or salmon salad using sustainable caught canned tuna and wild canned salmon a couple of times per week for lunch. I use Chosen Foods Avocado Mayo (100% avocado oil) for my fish salads...again for the plethora of mono and poly-unsaturated fats...just be careful with the calories. We can get frozen Pacific Wild Cod relatively cheap at Costco and we usually have some kind of blackened cod fish fry dish once per week for dinner as well.

    Good luck, it can be done.
  • NYPhotographer2021
    NYPhotographer2021 Posts: 502 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »

    It is very possible that losing 40 Lbs will go a long way in helping resolve those cholesterol issues as visceral fat around the organs is the easiest to lose and typically goes first (one of the reasons a lot of people can't visually see weight loss early on), and it's that visceral fat that really leads to health issues.
    Unfortunately, my last blood work was after 35 of those pounds were gone when my blood work showed elevated LDL levels. I figured it was because I was eating a lot of eggs. I was on a Keto diet because my blood glucose A1c was high and was diagnosed as a diabetic. I managed to bring that down to normal. So I don't eat a lot of fruit due to the high sugar content. I do eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower and beans for their fiber content.

    I try to eat lean meats, but sometimes a bun-less cheeseburger is so good! So more diet tweaking and look into exercising. I will look into a gym nearby as it is way to cold here in NY to walk outdoors. Cycling is out I fear. The last time I tried to use a stationary bike, my knees took a beating. Way too much of a contraction on them. But walking on a treadmill, I can do!
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 40,988 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »

    It is very possible that losing 40 Lbs will go a long way in helping resolve those cholesterol issues as visceral fat around the organs is the easiest to lose and typically goes first (one of the reasons a lot of people can't visually see weight loss early on), and it's that visceral fat that really leads to health issues.
    Unfortunately, my last blood work was after 35 of those pounds were gone when my blood work showed elevated LDL levels. I figured it was because I was eating a lot of eggs. I was on a Keto diet because my blood glucose A1c was high and was diagnosed as a diabetic. I managed to bring that down to normal. So I don't eat a lot of fruit due to the high sugar content. I do eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower and beans for their fiber content.

    I try to eat lean meats, but sometimes a bun-less cheeseburger is so good! So more diet tweaking and look into exercising. I will look into a gym nearby as it is way to cold here in NY to walk outdoors. Cycling is out I fear. The last time I tried to use a stationary bike, my knees took a beating. Way too much of a contraction on them. But walking on a treadmill, I can do!

    Walking is great! If you every try the bike again, make sure your saddle is at the correct height. If it's too low it's really hard on the knees...set correctly, your long leg in the spin should only have a very slight bend. If it's too low, your knees will always be bent through the full rotation and that can get pretty painful. Also, not too much resistance...set it to where you can do a fairly easy spin at about 80-85 RPM. I had to do that for awhile after I fractured my knee cap to build back up to more resistance and power. Anyway...just some suggestions if you ever want to try the bike again. I'm just a cycling and mountain biking geek.

    Oh, and cheeseburgers are great...I don't make them much in the winter, but about once per week on my grill in the warmer months...not so much about not having as it is what does the rest of the diet look like. I also wonder if Keto might have been an issue with losing weight but still having higher cholesterol levels...I had asked my Dr. about that once upon a time as he is also a cardiologist and he didn't advise it for that reason...but I suppose trying to manage two different medical issues with diet is kind of a pick your poison kind of thing...

    Anyway, good luck.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    cwolfman13 wrote: »

    It is very possible that losing 40 Lbs will go a long way in helping resolve those cholesterol issues as visceral fat around the organs is the easiest to lose and typically goes first (one of the reasons a lot of people can't visually see weight loss early on), and it's that visceral fat that really leads to health issues.
    Unfortunately, my last blood work was after 35 of those pounds were gone when my blood work showed elevated LDL levels. I figured it was because I was eating a lot of eggs. I was on a Keto diet because my blood glucose A1c was high and was diagnosed as a diabetic. I managed to bring that down to normal. So I don't eat a lot of fruit due to the high sugar content. I do eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower and beans for their fiber content.

    I try to eat lean meats, but sometimes a bun-less cheeseburger is so good! So more diet tweaking and look into exercising. I will look into a gym nearby as it is way to cold here in NY to walk outdoors. Cycling is out I fear. The last time I tried to use a stationary bike, my knees took a beating. Way too much of a contraction on them. But walking on a treadmill, I can do!

    What were your actual numbers. You can't judge metabolic health on a single number. Also, one test is only a point in time and can be effected by dieting. Essentially, single data points are reasons to evaluate and get additional test.


    Btwz you can modulate LDL pretty easily. When i do keto, i can get LDL to 174. I could go low fat for two weeks and bring it down to 105. The increase in circulating fatty acids will increase LDL.

    There are other factors such as family health, HDL, triglycerides, A1C, fasting glucose, etc...

    In all my life, my LDL has never been less than 99. I played college ice hockey and athletic my entire life. My HDL is 59, BG at 80, and triglycerides at 40. There is also zero heart disease in my family. These numbers have rarely moved regardless if i was on a high or low fat diet.
  • NYPhotographer2021
    NYPhotographer2021 Posts: 502 Member
    My LDL was 146 and he wants it to be around 75. I forget what my HDL was, but I remember he said he'd like it higher. Family history most likely factors in a lot. Just like with diabetes. I used to be well, both my parents were heavy and had diabetes so I most likely will also. And I was. But I managed to turn that around with the Keto diet, so I am going to try like heck to turn the cholesterol around too without meds.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    edited February 10
    My LDL was 146 and he wants it to be around 75. I forget what my HDL was, but I remember he said he'd like it higher. Family history most likely factors in a lot. Just like with diabetes. I used to be well, both my parents were heavy and had diabetes so I most likely will also. And I was. But I managed to turn that around with the Keto diet, so I am going to try like heck to turn the cholesterol around too without meds.

    I would go get another opinion before getting on meds. 146 is not that terrible, especially if you fasting bg, triglycerides, and blood pressure are in good standing. That was almost my exact LDL two years ago, and with all my other factors, my chance of cve was like 1%.


    If you want to stay on Keto because it's been helpful, I would incorporate more fish, avocado, low gi berries, dark leafy greens and reduce full fat dairys, butter, fatty cuts of meats. You can also add in EVOO/Avocado oil, nuts, and olives. A bit more Mediterranean keto.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    Thank you @cwolfman13 I've lost 40 pounds through diet alone, and haven't really exercised. You've given me the push to start exercising now. I have 20 more pounds to go before reaching goal weight of 150. I've put off exercising due to bad hips, knees, ankles & lower back. But I think I've lost enough to ease the strain on those areas. And I'm so happy to go back to whole eggs! My next blood work isn't until June, so hopefully I can bring those levels to normal.

    If you have bad hips/knees, the best thing you can do is go to physical therapy. You ideally want to understand what can be done and rebuild those areas to prevent further injury.


    And yea, whole eggs are the way to go! I do like 15-25 eggs a week.
  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,842 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.
  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,842 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

  • wilson10102018
    wilson10102018 Posts: 1,306 Member
    It is always good for one's health to eat a healthy diet and to have weight appropriate for one's body type and condition.

    But the discussion above is a flashback to 1970's "science" when folks thought one could reduce heart attacks by regulating dietary cholesterol. Did i miss something new? To my understanding there is no proven causal link between lower blood cholesterol resulting from dietary restrictions and reduced incidents of heart disease.

    Let's move away from the old "my momma stopped eating bacon and eggs and never had another heart attack" to some actual science unless there is something new:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19751443/

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9430080/
  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,842 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.

    I follow the evidence based community, and even they think there are applications for Keto as long as you don't just live on butter and bacon. Weight management and exercise are the two biggest players in metabolic health. That is why there are people from every diet community that improve their metabolic health. There are also examples from every community of horrible execution that can adversely effect healthy.

    I understand the correlations of LDL to CVD. Not only from the evidence based community, but from talking to cardiologist, electrophysiologist, and many other doctors, which includes friends who are University of Penn trained cardiologist.

  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,842 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.

    I follow the evidence based community, and even they think there are applications for Keto as long as you don't just live on butter and bacon. Weight management and exercise are the two biggest players in metabolic health. That is why there are people from every diet community that improve their metabolic health. There are also examples from every community of horrible execution that can adversely effect healthy.

    I understand the correlations of LDL to CVD. Not only from the evidence based community, but from talking to cardiologist, electrophysiologist, and many other doctors, which includes friends who are University of Penn trained cardiologist.

    This post was specifically about LDL and no cardiologists are recommending diets high in animal fat for improving one’s numbers.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.

    I follow the evidence based community, and even they think there are applications for Keto as long as you don't just live on butter and bacon. Weight management and exercise are the two biggest players in metabolic health. That is why there are people from every diet community that improve their metabolic health. There are also examples from every community of horrible execution that can adversely effect healthy.

    I understand the correlations of LDL to CVD. Not only from the evidence based community, but from talking to cardiologist, electrophysiologist, and many other doctors, which includes friends who are University of Penn trained cardiologist.

    This post was specifically about LDL and no cardiologists are recommending diets high in animal fat for improving one’s numbers.

    Sure. If that is what you believe.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,054 MFP Moderator
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol. Saturated fat does.

    This is an overgeneralization. The data is mixed on SFA and there are many co-founding variables. Typically, those who eat diets high in SFA, also tend to exercise less, eat less fruits and vegetables, smoke and drink more, and live am overall unhealthy lifestyle. Generalized statements are generally not helpful and come without variables. This is almost as bad as fear mongering sugar. There will always be a dosage response.

    The biggest improvements to metabolic healthy come from fat loss, exercise, reduction of alcohol intake, elimination of smoking, improved sleep, and less stress. The latter two especially in terms of decision making with food and their affect on hunger hormones.

    This is the general consensus in the medical community and recommendations from cardiologists. Ask the vast majority of medical providers what they recommend to lower cholesterol and it will be to consume less animal fat, period.

    Yes, fat loss is helpful but some people can still harm their body consuming so much animal fat, as on the Keto diet. I work ER and have seen several patients come in with heart attacks after being on keto for several months despite losing weight during that time.

    A few months of keto doesn't outweigh years of unhealthy eating. I have seen and have had friends hospitalized after being on vegan diets. Does that make a vegan diet bad?

    Also, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. And i am personal friends with several doctors, and they aren't always informated with the most current information or can't recommend outside general guidelines for liability issues.

    You also need to consider that if the poster does well on a keto diet and it helps them keep of the weight, then it should be a priority. Often people come off diets and make things worse.

    Advice from doctors is valuable because it is based on evidence based research. Just because someone loses weight on the Keto diet, it doesn’t make them healthier. There are many skinny people having heart attacks.

    So do you follow the advice of Dr. Fung or Dr. Ken Berry? Both are doctors.


    Not all doctors are up to speed with current evidence. That is why in research, we get data from many sources and studies to form hypotheses. I know you are anti keto. Also, pretty sure the poster saw improvements with her metabolic healthy but had slightly elevated LDL, which is only a small piece of the puzzle.

    But if you got some evidence on weight loss on Keto can lead to being more unhealthy, I would be interested in seeing it. But i suspect, you will only have anecdotal evidence, just like i have anecdotal evidence of vegans have protein deficiencies, b12 deficiencies, iron deficiencies, etc...

    Dr. Fung is a poor example as are the Frontline doctors who are in the news spreading bad information about covid. I mentioned evidence based research which is what my post was based on. The general opinion of the medical community based on research studies holds more weight than your opinion.

    I follow the evidence based community, and even they think there are applications for Keto as long as you don't just live on butter and bacon. Weight management and exercise are the two biggest players in metabolic health. That is why there are people from every diet community that improve their metabolic health. There are also examples from every community of horrible execution that can adversely effect healthy.

    I understand the correlations of LDL to CVD. Not only from the evidence based community, but from talking to cardiologist, electrophysiologist, and many other doctors, which includes friends who are University of Penn trained cardiologist.

    This post was specifically about LDL and no cardiologists are recommending diets high in animal fat for improving one’s numbers.

    Sure. If that is what you believe.

    Also to add, if you look at what was written, you can have a high fat diet that isn't loaded with a ton of SFA. Focusing on fatty fish, avocados, olives, dairy, eggs, chia/flax, and nuts/seeds is a great way to healthy fats. Sticky with leaner meats is also a food way to address the issue.

    Be a little less myopic with your belief on what a keto diet is. When i do keto, i eat an avocado almost every day. I add in low fat dairy, eggs chia seeds, cook in avocado oil and use cheese (especially goat feta), and olives.
  • glassyo
    glassyo Posts: 6,539 Member
    edited February 12
    Is now a good time to tell my little N=1 story? :)

    Had a cholesterol test and LDL and trys were a little high. Someone on another message board posted how eating food wth cholesterol helped his numbers so every night I ate an actual egg with some extra egg whites instead of just the egg whites.

    Next test, my LDL and trys were down.

    This was during the year I kept gaining and losing the same pound so my weight never changed. My exercise stayed the same too. The only difference was the calories in the egg replaced the calories in either a piece of chocolate or some bread or whatever.

    The end.