Losing hope instead of weight :(

kshama2001 · February 2022

kenlchrzanowski wrote: »

kshama2001 wrote: »

The responses were extremely helpful in terms of what to do to fix the problem, even after the temper tantrum.

People who want solely cheerleading and are less concerned about actual useful advice should consider posting in the Motivation and Support forum.
.

There’s nothing here I disagree with.

I guess I view this as a coach. The trick is to program at the highest level that a client can adhere to. While factually most of the advice given has been correct , once it had been rejected the next step is to revise backwards to factual advice that can be accepted. Sometimes the conversation will bottom out to where there just isn’t any more helpful advice to give.

Yes, my advice was to "log everything, especially cheat days, and come back in a month." That was rejected. As far as I'm concerned, there wasn't anywhere to go after that.

In a paid coach/client relationship, presumably both parties do try harder. When I give my time for free, I'm not willing to be more invested in outcomes than the other party.

I did appreciate that the OP opened her diary. (I give up immediately if the other party isn't invested enough to do that.)

Once Chloe opened her diary, I saw that according to her food logs, she was averaging 791 calories per day. To not lose weight on that, I think horses, not unicorns - she's actually eating much more. If she were willing to address her logging, her mystery would be solved. But instead she got mad at the people trying to help her. For free.

PAV8888 · February 2022

Anyone who is not a candidate for the Guiness book and who needs to lose weight (including very short and old people) and who averages less than 800 Cal a day will lose weight.

Most people, regardless of eating 1200 Cal of the cookies that someone mentioned, or balanced meals including fish and veggies, or just pure evoo, and nothing but, will lose weight.

Note: I am not saying they will be healthy, I am not saying that they will suceed in losing as much as they want, or even remotely that they will successfully keep the weight off.

And I'm excluding situations where medical issues can increase water weight even (or because) of the above caloric intakes and where the only advice would be doctor and hospital because not dying may be more relevant than weight management.

I am just juxtaposing total calories in and weight loss trajectory.

800 and no loss does not compute.

So either the 800 is incorrect or the ability to detect loss is incorrect or both.

The objection to a few tablespoons of olive oil on a 1200 Cal diet is that the post in question reads to me as suggesting that the mechanism driving the loss is the olive oil, not the 1200.

If the post stated that for that individual increasing their fat intake resulted in increased satiation and increased their ability to adhere to a low 1200 Cal intake that resulted in weight loss... no issues.

But that's not how the post reads even if that's what the writer wanted to get across.

Now whether the best investment in a vlcd is oil... I would argue that survival would favor protein.

The op given her age is probably better off NOT trying for quick weight loss and extreme diets.

By the sounds of it she is well on her way to inducing and perpetuating a pattern of substantial restrict and binge cycles.

She has walked away and may not benefit by these posts.

Maybe someone else will read them and have an aha! moment and save themselves years of weight struggles 🤷🏻‍♂️

I post because back in 2014, when I was ready to give up on weight loss because I was making it too hard and restrictive on myself, I stumbled on the mfp forums.

And discovered that:

--i didn't HAVE to eat in a specific (named) way to lose weight

--i didn't HAVE to give up everything I enjoyed forever in order to lose weight

I could have anything, and everything, just not all at once, not all the time, and not in unlimited quantities.

These two revelations kept me in the game long enough to discover a whole whack of other things down the road

Including that choosing food that satiates you will probably help you maintain your target deficits.

And that way too many people, including myself at the time, do not understand their weight level and how it changes.

And that expectations are often unrealistic leading to attempts that fizzle out and backfire because of the expectations.

Oh yes, and that on balance, there is absolutely no reason not to try to eat healthy!

As long as doing so doesn't impact successful weight management!

callsitlikeiseeit · February 2022

glassyo wrote: »

Slowfaster wrote: »

I'm going to suggest something that worked for me and then run away before the bombs land. Try adding in a few tablespoons olive oil everyday.

About a year ago I started eating 800 calories a day and after two weeks had lost nothing. This time I decided to try again following the Mediterranean diet recommended by my doctor. I'm also logging because I actually enjoy the weigh and measure part. So I've been averaging about 1200 per day and lost 13 pounds by the end of January (I only weigh once a month.) The oil helps break down body fat for fuel.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=jnDxiD5aD2Y&list=WL&index=3

But don't forget to log the olive oil.

@callsitlikeiseeit I hate your husband. But like you cuz you're actually shorter than me and that's rare! (I'm 5'2")

trust me, i hate my husband too. LOLOLOL

want to make it worse? he needs to GAIN weight.... and CANT!!!!!!!!!! the MF'ER has been to SO MANY docs to rule out any sort of POSSIBLE health issue for this reason.

healthy as a horse.

the &^%$^&*(*&^%$^&*( (*&^%$^&*()*&^%&* (*&^%&*()*&^%^&*(

god i hate him so much.

MagisterMundi · February 2022

callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »

trust me, i hate my husband too. LOLOLOL

want to make it worse? he needs to GAIN weight.... and CANT!!!!!!!!!! the MF'ER has been to SO MANY docs to rule out any sort of POSSIBLE health issue for this reason.

healthy as a horse.

the &^%$^&*(*&^%$^&*( (*&^%$^&*()*&^%&* (*&^%&*()*&^%^&*(

god i hate him so much.

My last girlfriend was the same way. She was tiny, weighed basically nothing, and could (and did) eat whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, and almost never gain a pound. And when she DID gain a pound, it was always in a way that flattered her figure. Meanwhile, I was over there eating LESS than her despite being literally twice her size and still gaining decidedly unflattering weight. Some people have all the luck.

Slowfaster · February 2022

Oil and butter are not filling at all, imo. Yes, your advice was bad because it has no basis in science. It is not rude to say that.

The Healthline article I linked had five sources siting studies showing that people (men as well as women) were more satisfied and lost more body fat when using olive oil vs other fats, not just the one you mention about postmenopausal women. It was not directed at the OP but at the various people still here who said my advice to add a little olive oil was unscientific with no evidence.

The Healthline article goes on to summarize:

"Olive oil appears to reduce the risk of heart disease, promote feelings of fullness and boost metabolic rate."

You call my advice bad saying it has no basis in science, even though I've shown you five studies. Where is your scientific evidence to back your claim "oil and butter are not filling at all?"

nooshi713 · February 2022

Slowfaster wrote: »

Oil and butter are not filling at all, imo. Yes, your advice was bad because it has no basis in science. It is not rude to say that.

The Healthline article I linked had five sources siting studies showing that people (men as well as women) were more satisfied and lost more body fat when using olive oil vs other fats, not just the one you mention about postmenopausal women. It was not directed at the OP but at the various people still here who said my advice to add a little olive oil was unscientific with no evidence.

The Healthline article goes on to summarize:

"Olive oil appears to reduce the risk of heart disease, promote feelings of fullness and boost metabolic rate."

You call my advice bad saying it has no basis in science, even though I've shown you five studies. Where is your scientific evidence to back your claim "oil and butter are not filling at all?"

I didn’t cite any studies. Generally speaking, eating oil is not filling for most I would bet. I never said olive oil is not healthy. I said it has no magic properties for weight loss. Usually, calorie dense foods like oil are not good for weight loss.

paperpudding · February 2022

"Olive oil appears to reduce the risk of heart disease, promote feelings of fullness and boost metabolic rate."

I doubt the boosted metabolic rate part.

But, sure, it may reduce risk of heart disease - but that is irrelevant since OP's problem has nothing to do with heart disease.

What promotes feelings of fullness is very individual and something people have to experiment on themselves to find out

Nothing that makes one feel full has any magic fat burning properties though - it simply means one finds it easier to adhere to the appropriate calories

sbelletti · February 2022

Folks, can we stop the back and forth about olive oil. Move that to the Debate forum or start a new thread, please.

kshama2001 · February 2022

PAV8888 wrote: »

When I first started on MFP the "rule" for me was that I had to log everything by weight and using verified entries BEFORE I ate it. BEFORE. Not after.

Nothing eaten till logged fully and correctly (USDA site used to work properly back then!)

Eight years later I still log; but way more casually than before. I still have no intention of missing items. I have eight *kitten* years of experience logging, a time during which I haven't logged less than 15 days in total. And when logging after the fact I consistently catch myself forgetting things. Or opening and logging a bag of chocolates as it gets eaten, when the 750g bag is done a week later I add up the logged numbers and find out I only logged 500. Yes. This happened. With NO intention to cheat. And eight years experience. And a reputation for being, shall we say... "precise"?

One of the corollaries of not eating till it's logged was that I started eating before I was totally famished. Or ate something easy to weigh and log (like an apple) essentially a few minutes before the rest of the food. Both of which helped me control my calories-in especially in the beginning when 4 and 5000 Cal meals were a far from distant memory.

The reason I even logged an all you can eat thanksgiving buffet (from pictures and with several MFPeops providing assistance back then to our conclusion of a good 7000 Cal) is that without relatively good data you can't make good decisions.

Maybe your issue is hormonal fluctuations and punching your weight trend in a weight trend app will show you a normal loss when you only compare your weight during similar times in your monthly cycle.

Maybe your issue IS that a single cheat day wipes your 500 a day average deficit... hey I am MAINTAINING (deliberately) by having myself set to a 497 calories deficit (too lazy to adjust it) that I regularly exceed to an either lesser or greater degree.

@PAV8888 You've mentioned this many times and occasionally I have chimed in to say that weight loss was easier for me when I did this when I first started on MFP.

I've been struggling since a few weeks after we moved in with my mother and brother last fall and recently told my therapist I was going to start prelogging again. She said it sounded like a lot of work. I replied that gaining weight is a lot of emotional work for me, and I need to chose my work.

I started prelogging on the 10th and lo and behold my weight started going down immediately, which was quite likely also related to letting go of some hormonal water retention, but still quite gratifying.

It is so much easier for me to make better choices when I prelog.

At this stage it is also a fun puzzle to solve - what can I eat to maximize enjoyment while hitting my fiber and protein goals, and not get carried away with fat? (I love fat but it is not especially satiating to me and also adversely effects a medical condition.)

PAV8888 · February 2022

@kshama2001 I am glad to see that at least someone got something out of this thread!

I also find it interesting that the above (and many many other hints, tips, and suggestions both directly articulated or written out as examples of things we've tried) can all be found in a thread where someone else wrote: "I'd suggest it's also fair to question how helpful our responses have been for a post titled "Losing Hope".

May I suggest that we are going to get out of the forums only what we are both ready and willing to get out of them.

And that if we're too hangry and/or angry... we won't get much more than an opportunity for another go-around a few months or years down the road.

Losing hope instead of weight :(

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