What does the word 'hunger' mean to you?
Bridgie3
Posts: 139 Member
I have always thought that hunger was that grumbly feeling in your stomach where there's nothing in there, and it's rumbling and uncomfortable.
But a few years ago someone told me that I could control hunger, and so I looked up the definition on line. Wikipedia said:
"Hunger pangs
The physical sensation of hunger is related to contractions of the stomach muscles. These contractions—sometimes called hunger pangs once they become severe—are believed to be triggered by high concentrations of the ghrelin hormone. The hormones Peptide YY and Leptin can have an opposite effect on the appetite, causing the sensation of being full. Ghrelin can be released if blood sugar levels get low—a condition that can result from long periods without eating. Stomach contractions from hunger can be especially severe and painful in children and young adults.[citation needed]"
Which is to say, a hormone response? A hormone reaction to low blood sugar? Not the actual sides of your tummy physically rubbing together? No?
"Short-term regulation of hunger and food intake
Short-term regulation of hunger and food intake involves neural signals from the GI tract, blood levels of nutrients, GI tract hormones, and psychological factors." it says on wiki.
The weird thing about this, is that it says really that your tummy rubbing together isn't hunger. And when I looked up what that was, I got told it was an irritation, or some kind of irritant in the stomach.
So... that food bag in your midriff doesn't need to have food in it all the time. And if it is not being irritated, it can be empty for a while. And that won't be a problem...
It's taken me 3 years to digest this idea. Having an empty stomach does not equal hungry. And hungry is something else.
I could go on but it would be an essay. What is that need for food? where does it spring from? That desperation, that urge to consume (chocolate, cake, etc). What is it that makes you if you are low on calories for the day, just obsess about food till you've had enough?
Where does that sit? Is it in the brain? Or is it all imaginings?
I am now eating within a window of time during the day, and outside that time my tummy is clearly empty - but it doesn't bother me. It doesn't nag me for food, I don't suffer. I used to suffer terribly. Has my tummy 'shrunk', - or does the urge to eat stem from somewhere else?
What do other people see as being hunger, and how do they deal with it? Does it bother you?
Editing to add link to wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_(physiology)
But a few years ago someone told me that I could control hunger, and so I looked up the definition on line. Wikipedia said:
"Hunger pangs
The physical sensation of hunger is related to contractions of the stomach muscles. These contractions—sometimes called hunger pangs once they become severe—are believed to be triggered by high concentrations of the ghrelin hormone. The hormones Peptide YY and Leptin can have an opposite effect on the appetite, causing the sensation of being full. Ghrelin can be released if blood sugar levels get low—a condition that can result from long periods without eating. Stomach contractions from hunger can be especially severe and painful in children and young adults.[citation needed]"
Which is to say, a hormone response? A hormone reaction to low blood sugar? Not the actual sides of your tummy physically rubbing together? No?
"Short-term regulation of hunger and food intake
Short-term regulation of hunger and food intake involves neural signals from the GI tract, blood levels of nutrients, GI tract hormones, and psychological factors." it says on wiki.
The weird thing about this, is that it says really that your tummy rubbing together isn't hunger. And when I looked up what that was, I got told it was an irritation, or some kind of irritant in the stomach.
So... that food bag in your midriff doesn't need to have food in it all the time. And if it is not being irritated, it can be empty for a while. And that won't be a problem...
It's taken me 3 years to digest this idea. Having an empty stomach does not equal hungry. And hungry is something else.
I could go on but it would be an essay. What is that need for food? where does it spring from? That desperation, that urge to consume (chocolate, cake, etc). What is it that makes you if you are low on calories for the day, just obsess about food till you've had enough?
Where does that sit? Is it in the brain? Or is it all imaginings?
I am now eating within a window of time during the day, and outside that time my tummy is clearly empty - but it doesn't bother me. It doesn't nag me for food, I don't suffer. I used to suffer terribly. Has my tummy 'shrunk', - or does the urge to eat stem from somewhere else?
What do other people see as being hunger, and how do they deal with it? Does it bother you?
Editing to add link to wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_(physiology)
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Replies
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"I can think, I can wait, I can fast." Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha is a very readable account of the life of Buddha, might help settle these deep questions.5
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"I can think, I can wait, I can fast." Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha is a very readable account of the life of Buddha, might help settle these deep questions.
Thanks, I think. I wasn't really attempting a philosophical discussion - more of a physiological one. I've struggled with hunger all my life, never been able to sustain a diet properly for more than a month before due to losing control.
nvm.1 -
I feel 'hungry' most of the time.
I'm generally only satiated directly after a good meal - if it's a carb heavy meal like pasta then I'm 'hungry' again within an hour.
The only way I can manage these cravings is to do intermittent fasting.
I have a cut off point each day where I stop eating or drinking anything with calories.
Am I still hungry?
Yes!
But it lessons over time.
I don't do it everyday but the days I don't do it I'm on a constant eating roller coaster.
It's probably psychological- I've always been like it and it takes a lot of effort to maintain my weight - constantly thinking about food is exhausting!4 -
I’m a bit flabbergasted that anyone would actually picture the physical sides of your stomach rubbing together as being the cause of hunger pains!
As far as I’ve always understood it, since your stomach contains concentrated hydrochloric acid (to break down food in the digestion process) that the pains/pangs are caused by the acid irritating the stomach lining - which is why drinking a glass of water can stave off the hunger pains - it simply dilutes the acid to prevent the irritation.
To me, hunger is the point when I feel physically shaky and very nauseous, not when my stomach rumbles or ‘gripes’. That nausea and light headed shakiness is my prime indicator that I probably need to eat within the next hour or so. It only bothers me to the extent that the nausea is unpleasant.
It takes very little food to assuage the feeling though! I can only eat a certain volume of food, no matter how hungry I am, in fact I often find that the hungrier I am, the quicker I feel full. That, I imagine, has something to do with hormonal response to finally eating.
I know others find that leaving it that late to eat is a trigger for over-eating. Or as my mother used to put it ‘your eyes are bigger than your stomach’ 😂6 -
As a 5’4” 7-8% body fat person, I don't really feel hungry. I just eat 1700-1800 maintenance and more (400-500+) on workout days. If say I had a work schedule that placed me out of eating window then I just double up cal on the next meal.1
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OP, you might also find interesting the impact of sleep (or lack thereof) on ghrelin and leptin.4
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@ahoy_m8 This is really interesting. Thanks for this. I've known for a long while (since motherhood!) that sleep (or lackthereof) impacts my food choices/intake/hunger. But even as my kids have got a bit older, not enough sleep is still guaranteed to result in poor choices. I always wondered whether it was an affect on willpower, or if I was so tired the emotional-eater in me felt I 'deserved' something yummy (the logic here doesn't add up I know, I should feed myself something nutritious, obviously). I'm glad my efforts to improve sleep with the hope of improving my diet are actually based on some solid science
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OP - I get hungry most days, but the only time I'm ravenous to the point where I'm a bit shaky comes at some point after a big work out if I haven't properly refuelled. I don't like to let myself get too hungry because I'm much more likely to overeat. Cravings and boredom are not the same as hunger. I don't think I've ever imagined my stomach sides rubbing together, that would be quite a shift in the body to achieve that, no?!2
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I recently read the latest Pinel Biopsychology textbook, which is pretty much the gold standard in terms of neuroscience academic references.
Anyway, their chapter on the physiology of hunger was very interesting because they basically ripped apart all of the previous theories of hunger, including demonstrating how the "hunger" and "satiety" parts of the brain that we've always learned about don't actually exist as they're taught. But hey, outdated science tends to persist a lot longer than it should.
So evidently, the most current line of thinking is that because we've come to understand that the process of eating is actually quite traumatic for the body, if you eat regularly every day, then the body goes into action to prepare itself for the food it's expects to arrive. Hence the stomach churning, etc.
They draw a physiological parallel to how the body has anticipatory reactions to regular drug use as well. How the physiological process of drug tolerance is dependent on how typical the use is. So if someone normally shoots up heroin at home at 5pm, their tolerance for heroin will be extremely high. But if they suddenly decide to shoot up at 4pm at a stranger's house, they're body isn't as braced for the drug and their tolerance will be much lower, hence why drug users OD so much easier in new locations.
The human body is extremely sensitive to routines, especially repetitive daily routines.
So the more regular you are with your meals, the more "hunger" you will feel right before your typical eating times. And the stomach sensation of hunger has little to nothing to do with any need for calories. It feels like you need calories if you eat less than normal, not because of a specific energy need, but because your body prepped to digest more food than you ate.
Now for me, anecdotally this makes sense. I never used to understand why I could eat a massive brunch consisting well above my caloric needs for the day, and then be ravenous again before my normal dinner time.
Then I stopped having regularly timed meals and amounts, and my sensation of stomach hunger has dramatically reduced.
That said, it's very clear to me now when I need calories. It has nothing to do with my stomach and everything to do with my head. When I need food, it's not subtle. I get a bit shaky/dizzy/nauseous, like if you spin around a bit too much, not severe, but not pleasant, and if I don't eat, I get snippy and short tempered. It takes awhile to build up and just keeps getting worse unless I eat. If I don't eat for a long time after this starts, I'll full on lose my ability to focus and eventually get quite lightheaded. So I make sure to eat well before that happens and then I feel great, my head clears, and my mood and mental focus get a huge boost.
So yes, my personal anecdotal experience is that stomach sensations have little to do with needing food and much to do with the body's expectation that food is coming.
And the current gold standard academic reference text says this exact thing.
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I recently read the latest Pinel Biopsychology textbook, which is pretty much the gold standard in terms of neuroscience academic references.
Anyway, their chapter on the physiology of hunger was very interesting because they basically ripped apart all of the previous theories of hunger, including demonstrating how the "hunger" and "satiety" parts of the brain that we've always learned about don't actually exist as they're taught. But hey, outdated science tends to persist a lot longer than it should.
So evidently, the most current line of thinking is that because we've come to understand that the process of eating is actually quite traumatic for the body, if you eat regularly every day, then the body goes into action to prepare itself for the food it's expects to arrive. Hence the stomach churning, etc.
They draw a physiological parallel to how the body has anticipatory reactions to regular drug use as well. How the physiological process of drug tolerance is dependent on how typical the use is. So if someone normally shoots up heroin at home at 5pm, their tolerance for heroin will be extremely high. But if they suddenly decide to shoot up at 4pm at a stranger's house, they're body isn't as braced for the drug and their tolerance will be much lower, hence why drug users OD so much easier in new locations.
The human body is extremely sensitive to routines, especially repetitive daily routines.
So the more regular you are with your meals, the more "hunger" you will feel right before your typical eating times. And the stomach sensation of hunger has little to nothing to do with any need for calories. It feels like you need calories if you eat less than normal, not because of a specific energy need, but because your body prepped to digest more food than you ate.
Now for me, anecdotally this makes sense. I never used to understand why I could eat a massive brunch consisting well above my caloric needs for the day, and then be ravenous again before my normal dinner time.
Then I stopped having regularly timed meals and amounts, and my sensation of stomach hunger has dramatically reduced.
That said, it's very clear to me now when I need calories. It has nothing to do with my stomach and everything to do with my head. When I need food, it's not subtle. I get a bit shaky/dizzy/nauseous, like if you spin around a bit too much, not severe, but not pleasant, and if I don't eat, I get snippy and short tempered. It takes awhile to build up and just keeps getting worse unless I eat. If I don't eat for a long time after this starts, I'll full on lose my ability to focus and eventually get quite lightheaded. So I make sure to eat well before that happens and then I feel great, my head clears, and my mood and mental focus get a huge boost.
So yes, my personal anecdotal experience is that stomach sensations have little to do with needing food and much to do with the body's expectation that food is coming.
And the current gold standard academic reference text says this exact thing.
Thanks so much Xellercin - this really speaks to me as an explanation. It puts the picture the other way up a bit, doesn't it.
makes incredible sense.
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Thanks so much Xellercin - this really speaks to me as an explanation. It puts the picture the other way up a bit, doesn't it.
makes incredible sense.
True, but the previous explanations also made a lot of sense. When it comes to research on eating, the science is so limited that at any point, people are really just working on best guesses and working theories. This is how best it's understood at this point in time.
What is absolutely clear though is that the last 20 years of research, between when I first read a Pinel and now, we haven't really learned much that has clarified anything, we've mostly just learned that what we thought we knew was largely wrong.
I've really enjoyed studying the exact same material again two decades later, and seeing the evolution of understanding.
This is something that most people don't realize. Almost all doctors and scientists are operating with outdated information. They can only stay up to date on their particular area of expertise, but rarely do they revisit the foundational basics of their understanding of things, and that's where the most interesting changes happen.
I've really enjoyed the process of finding out that many of the foundational "facts" of brain function that I've taken for granted as "truth" for a very long time are, in fact, proven to be total nonsense. I literally used to teach this at the university level, I'm considered a subject matter expert, and yet I've had to go back to the basics and relearn so much of my core knowledge.
It's fun. I love finding out how I'm wrong, it's probably my very favourite thing.
But it's also why I see pretty much every source of information as deeply flawed. It takes many years to learn enough to be an expert, but with those years also comes erosion of the validity of the basis of knowledge. It's a really interesting process.5 -
A person could confuse hunger with cravings. They are two different things. The best tip I learned from The Dr. Oz show.. he said if you have a craving. .it will pass in 15 minutes.. and it does! Remember that if you are trying not to drink alcohol or sweets. It does pass. Hunger just gets worse.2
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Being unsatisfied. Whenever i think I'm hungry, really I'm just bored, upset, facing something challenging.1
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