Sodium struggle
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Note: even when someone else replied to me and said that they should maybe feel less guilty about their salt snacking, I cautioned that they too should investigate what *their* particular salt needs are. So in no way have I been promoting that people disregard the dangers of too much salt. Not at all.
How does one do that? Like in general I try to keep my sodium low-ish (my husband and mother both have high blood pressure). How would I investigate what my particular salt needs are?
In general, if you're not experiencing symptoms of hyponatremia you are probably fine. I'm not a Dr. but observationally my first signs were muscle spasms and muscle cramping as well as headaches and fatigue. This was largely a combination of low sodium intake with long distance endurance cycling in 100+ degree weather and sweating and drinking primarily water rather than something that would also replenish electrolytes.
I went to my Dr. with my symptoms and my blood work showed that my blood serum levels of sodium had dropped slightly below the normal range (135-145 mEQ/L) and he suggested that I increase my sodium if I was going to be engaging in physical activity so I brought it back up to around 2300mgs per day from around 1500mgs per day. He also had to adjust my blood pressure medication as my BP had dropped well below the normal 120/80. In that regard I did not see a notable difference in my BP from reducing sodium...my BP dropped dramatically with losing weight and regular exercise. I was pretty much a non-responder to sodium reduction.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Note: even when someone else replied to me and said that they should maybe feel less guilty about their salt snacking, I cautioned that they too should investigate what *their* particular salt needs are. So in no way have I been promoting that people disregard the dangers of too much salt. Not at all.
How does one do that? Like in general I try to keep my sodium low-ish (my husband and mother both have high blood pressure). How would I investigate what my particular salt needs are?
In general, if you're not experiencing symptoms of hyponatremia you are probably fine. I'm not a Dr. but observationally my first signs were muscle spasms and muscle cramping as well as headaches and fatigue. This was largely a combination of low sodium intake with long distance endurance cycling in 100+ degree weather and sweating and drinking primarily water rather than something that would also replenish electrolytes.
I went to my Dr. with my symptoms and my blood work showed that my blood serum levels of sodium had dropped slightly below the normal range (135-145 mEQ/L) and he suggested that I increase my sodium if I was going to be engaging in physical activity so I brought it back up to around 2300mgs per day from around 1500mgs per day. He also had to adjust my blood pressure medication as my BP had dropped well below the normal 120/80. In that regard I did not see a notable difference in my BP from reducing sodium...my BP dropped dramatically with losing weight and regular exercise. I was pretty much a non-responder to sodium reduction.
I don't really have any concern about my sodium intake being too low tbh.
I was more wondering how one with high sodium intake (such as the OP) would decide that they don't need to reduce it to below the generally recommended amount. It seems that @Xellercin is saying that before one reduces their intake they should first find out what the correct intake amount is for their particular needs. Just curious as to how one would go about doing that.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Note: even when someone else replied to me and said that they should maybe feel less guilty about their salt snacking, I cautioned that they too should investigate what *their* particular salt needs are. So in no way have I been promoting that people disregard the dangers of too much salt. Not at all.
How does one do that? Like in general I try to keep my sodium low-ish (my husband and mother both have high blood pressure). How would I investigate what my particular salt needs are?
In general, if you're not experiencing symptoms of hyponatremia you are probably fine. I'm not a Dr. but observationally my first signs were muscle spasms and muscle cramping as well as headaches and fatigue. This was largely a combination of low sodium intake with long distance endurance cycling in 100+ degree weather and sweating and drinking primarily water rather than something that would also replenish electrolytes.
I went to my Dr. with my symptoms and my blood work showed that my blood serum levels of sodium had dropped slightly below the normal range (135-145 mEQ/L) and he suggested that I increase my sodium if I was going to be engaging in physical activity so I brought it back up to around 2300mgs per day from around 1500mgs per day. He also had to adjust my blood pressure medication as my BP had dropped well below the normal 120/80. In that regard I did not see a notable difference in my BP from reducing sodium...my BP dropped dramatically with losing weight and regular exercise. I was pretty much a non-responder to sodium reduction.
I don't really have any concern about my sodium intake being too low tbh.
I was more wondering how one with high sodium intake (such as the OP) would decide that they don't need to reduce it to below the generally recommended amount. It seems that @Xellercin is saying that before one reduces their intake they should first find out what the correct intake amount is for their particular needs. Just curious as to how one would go about doing that.
I'm a person with high sodium intake. I don't consider it a problem because my blood pressure is solidly normal (it was high before weight loss), and because I'm active and someone who sweats heavily (and hydrates accordingly).
Could I be creating a long term problem without realizing? Sure. But there are literally no signs that that's true, either in the way of symptoms or blood test results. (I have regular comprehensive blood panels as part of follow-up on my cancer history, and history of high cholesterol - the latter of which has also been solidly normal since weight loss).
I'm not a doctor like Xellercin, but I do see my doctor - multiple doctors, actually** - regularly. I feel like common sense has a role in all of this, balancing factors that are important for an individual.
** This is typical for a 66-year-old with my health history, even though my current health is pretty stellar. I have a GP, pulmonologist (sleep apnea), oncologist, among others I see occasionally for specific follow-up.
If someone actively wants to reduce sodium, just as a bet-hedge, even without a current health trigger to do so, I think that's fine, a good thing to do. It's still easier to give nuanced advice, with some background about the situation.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Note: even when someone else replied to me and said that they should maybe feel less guilty about their salt snacking, I cautioned that they too should investigate what *their* particular salt needs are. So in no way have I been promoting that people disregard the dangers of too much salt. Not at all.
How does one do that? Like in general I try to keep my sodium low-ish (my husband and mother both have high blood pressure). How would I investigate what my particular salt needs are?
In general, if you're not experiencing symptoms of hyponatremia you are probably fine. I'm not a Dr. but observationally my first signs were muscle spasms and muscle cramping as well as headaches and fatigue. This was largely a combination of low sodium intake with long distance endurance cycling in 100+ degree weather and sweating and drinking primarily water rather than something that would also replenish electrolytes.
I went to my Dr. with my symptoms and my blood work showed that my blood serum levels of sodium had dropped slightly below the normal range (135-145 mEQ/L) and he suggested that I increase my sodium if I was going to be engaging in physical activity so I brought it back up to around 2300mgs per day from around 1500mgs per day. He also had to adjust my blood pressure medication as my BP had dropped well below the normal 120/80. In that regard I did not see a notable difference in my BP from reducing sodium...my BP dropped dramatically with losing weight and regular exercise. I was pretty much a non-responder to sodium reduction.
I don't really have any concern about my sodium intake being too low tbh.
I was more wondering how one with high sodium intake (such as the OP) would decide that they don't need to reduce it to below the generally recommended amount. It seems that @Xellercin is saying that before one reduces their intake they should first find out what the correct intake amount is for their particular needs. Just curious as to how one would go about doing that.
Mostly just know your general health and pay attention to your body signals.
What is your blood pressure (not just when it's taken at the doctor's office), how are your kidneys?
How is your water intake? Do you ever find yourself feeling thirsty but water seems to make it worse?
Basically, does a high salt diet make you feel less thirsty and more energized? Do you have *any* systems that can't handle higher levels of salt?
Basically, just know your body, and understand how salt actually affects it.
If you have ANY reason why higher levels of salt wouldn't be good for you, then it's VERY important to know that.
FTR folks, I am a doctor, but not the kind that treats high blood pressure. This isn't my area of practice at all. I know most of this from being a patient who has had to learn a lot about taking enormous doses of salt. Nothing I am saying is medical advice.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Note: even when someone else replied to me and said that they should maybe feel less guilty about their salt snacking, I cautioned that they too should investigate what *their* particular salt needs are. So in no way have I been promoting that people disregard the dangers of too much salt. Not at all.
How does one do that? Like in general I try to keep my sodium low-ish (my husband and mother both have high blood pressure). How would I investigate what my particular salt needs are?
In general, if you're not experiencing symptoms of hyponatremia you are probably fine. I'm not a Dr. but observationally my first signs were muscle spasms and muscle cramping as well as headaches and fatigue. This was largely a combination of low sodium intake with long distance endurance cycling in 100+ degree weather and sweating and drinking primarily water rather than something that would also replenish electrolytes.
I went to my Dr. with my symptoms and my blood work showed that my blood serum levels of sodium had dropped slightly below the normal range (135-145 mEQ/L) and he suggested that I increase my sodium if I was going to be engaging in physical activity so I brought it back up to around 2300mgs per day from around 1500mgs per day. He also had to adjust my blood pressure medication as my BP had dropped well below the normal 120/80. In that regard I did not see a notable difference in my BP from reducing sodium...my BP dropped dramatically with losing weight and regular exercise. I was pretty much a non-responder to sodium reduction.
I don't really have any concern about my sodium intake being too low tbh.
I was more wondering how one with high sodium intake (such as the OP) would decide that they don't need to reduce it to below the generally recommended amount. It seems that @Xellercin is saying that before one reduces their intake they should first find out what the correct intake amount is for their particular needs. Just curious as to how one would go about doing that.
I'm a person with high sodium intake. I don't consider it a problem because my blood pressure is solidly normal (it was high before weight loss), and because I'm active and someone who sweats heavily (and hydrates accordingly).
Could I be creating a long term problem without realizing? Sure. But there are literally no signs that that's true, either in the way of symptoms or blood test results. (I have regular comprehensive blood panels as part of follow-up on my cancer history, and history of high cholesterol - the latter of which has also been solidly normal since weight loss).
I'm not a doctor like Xellercin, but I do see my doctor - multiple doctors, actually** - regularly. I feel like common sense has a role in all of this, balancing factors that are important for an individual.
** This is typical for a 66-year-old with my health history, even though my current health is pretty stellar. I have a GP, pulmonologist (sleep apnea), oncologist, among others I see occasionally for specific follow-up.
If someone actively wants to reduce sodium, just as a bet-hedge, even without a current health trigger to do so, I think that's fine, a good thing to do. It's still easier to give nuanced advice, with some background about the situation.
Interesting - my main concern with high sodium as a somewhat active older woman (57) is not so much high blood pressure (never had an issue with it) but osteoporosis.
My mother has osteoporosis and spinal compression fractures, and my latest osteoarthritis investigations indicated some mild osteopenia, at least in my knee. She always lived a very sedentary lifestyle, and ate/eats a high sodium diet, so hoping a more optimal activity level and diet will stave it off for me.
As someone who doesn't get huge amount of dietary calcium something that might increase calcium excretion is a no go for me.0 -
Interesting - my main concern with high sodium as a somewhat active older woman (57) is not so much high blood pressure (never had an issue with it) but osteoporosis.
My mother has osteoporosis and spinal compression fractures, and my latest osteoarthritis investigations indicated some mild osteopenia, at least in my knee. She always lived a very sedentary lifestyle, and ate/eats a high sodium diet, so hoping a more optimal activity level and diet will stave it off for me.
As someone who doesn't get huge amount of dietary calcium something that might increase calcium excretion is a no go for me.
Exactly, that's another example of knowing your own body's needs and risks. Everyone should want to be aware of their personal osteoporosis risks and how all of their lifestyle choices affect it, not just salt intake.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Note: even when someone else replied to me and said that they should maybe feel less guilty about their salt snacking, I cautioned that they too should investigate what *their* particular salt needs are. So in no way have I been promoting that people disregard the dangers of too much salt. Not at all.
How does one do that? Like in general I try to keep my sodium low-ish (my husband and mother both have high blood pressure). How would I investigate what my particular salt needs are?
In general, if you're not experiencing symptoms of hyponatremia you are probably fine. I'm not a Dr. but observationally my first signs were muscle spasms and muscle cramping as well as headaches and fatigue. This was largely a combination of low sodium intake with long distance endurance cycling in 100+ degree weather and sweating and drinking primarily water rather than something that would also replenish electrolytes.
I went to my Dr. with my symptoms and my blood work showed that my blood serum levels of sodium had dropped slightly below the normal range (135-145 mEQ/L) and he suggested that I increase my sodium if I was going to be engaging in physical activity so I brought it back up to around 2300mgs per day from around 1500mgs per day. He also had to adjust my blood pressure medication as my BP had dropped well below the normal 120/80. In that regard I did not see a notable difference in my BP from reducing sodium...my BP dropped dramatically with losing weight and regular exercise. I was pretty much a non-responder to sodium reduction.
I don't really have any concern about my sodium intake being too low tbh.
I was more wondering how one with high sodium intake (such as the OP) would decide that they don't need to reduce it to below the generally recommended amount. It seems that @Xellercin is saying that before one reduces their intake they should first find out what the correct intake amount is for their particular needs. Just curious as to how one would go about doing that.
I'm a person with high sodium intake. I don't consider it a problem because my blood pressure is solidly normal (it was high before weight loss), and because I'm active and someone who sweats heavily (and hydrates accordingly).
Could I be creating a long term problem without realizing? Sure. But there are literally no signs that that's true, either in the way of symptoms or blood test results. (I have regular comprehensive blood panels as part of follow-up on my cancer history, and history of high cholesterol - the latter of which has also been solidly normal since weight loss).
I'm not a doctor like Xellercin, but I do see my doctor - multiple doctors, actually** - regularly. I feel like common sense has a role in all of this, balancing factors that are important for an individual.
** This is typical for a 66-year-old with my health history, even though my current health is pretty stellar. I have a GP, pulmonologist (sleep apnea), oncologist, among others I see occasionally for specific follow-up.
If someone actively wants to reduce sodium, just as a bet-hedge, even without a current health trigger to do so, I think that's fine, a good thing to do. It's still easier to give nuanced advice, with some background about the situation.
Interesting - my main concern with high sodium as a somewhat active older woman (57) is not so much high blood pressure (never had an issue with it) but osteoporosis.
My mother has osteoporosis and spinal compression fractures, and my latest osteoarthritis investigations indicated some mild osteopenia, at least in my knee. She always lived a very sedentary lifestyle, and ate/eats a high sodium diet, so hoping a more optimal activity level and diet will stave it off for me.
As someone who doesn't get huge amount of dietary calcium something that might increase calcium excretion is a no go for me.
I do have osteoporosis risk (have osteopenia, may even have osteoporosis), and I'm aware of that side of high sodium, am monitoring, including multiple repeat full bone density tests and a specialist included in my medical team. I don't have much family history of osteoporosis. Unlike you, my calcium intake from food is high (as an ovo-lacto vegetarian) and I supplement that, among other things. FWIW, I'm older than you are, at 66.
I think the main factor in my bone density is a 5-year stint (some years back) on Arimidex (anastrozole), an estrogen synthesis inhibitor, as part of my breast cancer treatment. That seems to have been when my bone quality degradation happened. Just the early menopause (from chemotherapy at 45) is a risk factor, and the (anti-)hormone therapies after that created a sort of hyper-menopausal effect.
In my circumstances, you might make different choices, I understand . . . and that's fine.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Note: even when someone else replied to me and said that they should maybe feel less guilty about their salt snacking, I cautioned that they too should investigate what *their* particular salt needs are. So in no way have I been promoting that people disregard the dangers of too much salt. Not at all.
How does one do that? Like in general I try to keep my sodium low-ish (my husband and mother both have high blood pressure). How would I investigate what my particular salt needs are?
In general, if you're not experiencing symptoms of hyponatremia you are probably fine. I'm not a Dr. but observationally my first signs were muscle spasms and muscle cramping as well as headaches and fatigue. This was largely a combination of low sodium intake with long distance endurance cycling in 100+ degree weather and sweating and drinking primarily water rather than something that would also replenish electrolytes.
I went to my Dr. with my symptoms and my blood work showed that my blood serum levels of sodium had dropped slightly below the normal range (135-145 mEQ/L) and he suggested that I increase my sodium if I was going to be engaging in physical activity so I brought it back up to around 2300mgs per day from around 1500mgs per day. He also had to adjust my blood pressure medication as my BP had dropped well below the normal 120/80. In that regard I did not see a notable difference in my BP from reducing sodium...my BP dropped dramatically with losing weight and regular exercise. I was pretty much a non-responder to sodium reduction.
I don't really have any concern about my sodium intake being too low tbh.
I was more wondering how one with high sodium intake (such as the OP) would decide that they don't need to reduce it to below the generally recommended amount. It seems that @Xellercin is saying that before one reduces their intake they should first find out what the correct intake amount is for their particular needs. Just curious as to how one would go about doing that.
I'm a person with high sodium intake. I don't consider it a problem because my blood pressure is solidly normal (it was high before weight loss), and because I'm active and someone who sweats heavily (and hydrates accordingly).
Could I be creating a long term problem without realizing? Sure. But there are literally no signs that that's true, either in the way of symptoms or blood test results. (I have regular comprehensive blood panels as part of follow-up on my cancer history, and history of high cholesterol - the latter of which has also been solidly normal since weight loss).
I'm not a doctor like Xellercin, but I do see my doctor - multiple doctors, actually** - regularly. I feel like common sense has a role in all of this, balancing factors that are important for an individual.
** This is typical for a 66-year-old with my health history, even though my current health is pretty stellar. I have a GP, pulmonologist (sleep apnea), oncologist, among others I see occasionally for specific follow-up.
If someone actively wants to reduce sodium, just as a bet-hedge, even without a current health trigger to do so, I think that's fine, a good thing to do. It's still easier to give nuanced advice, with some background about the situation.
Interesting - my main concern with high sodium as a somewhat active older woman (57) is not so much high blood pressure (never had an issue with it) but osteoporosis.
My mother has osteoporosis and spinal compression fractures, and my latest osteoarthritis investigations indicated some mild osteopenia, at least in my knee. She always lived a very sedentary lifestyle, and ate/eats a high sodium diet, so hoping a more optimal activity level and diet will stave it off for me.
As someone who doesn't get huge amount of dietary calcium something that might increase calcium excretion is a no go for me.
I do have osteoporosis risk (have osteopenia, may even have osteoporosis), and I'm aware of that side of high sodium, am monitoring, including multiple repeat full bone density tests and a specialist included in my medical team. I don't have much family history of osteoporosis. Unlike you, my calcium intake from food is high (as an ovo-lacto vegetarian) and I supplement that, among other things. FWIW, I'm older than you are, at 66.
I think the main factor in my bone density is a 5-year stint (some years back) on Arimidex (anastrozole), an estrogen synthesis inhibitor, as part of my breast cancer treatment. That seems to have been when my bone quality degradation happened. Just the early menopause (from chemotherapy at 45) is a risk factor, and the (anti-)hormone therapies after that created a sort of hyper-menopausal effect.
In my circumstances, you might make different choices, I understand . . . and that's fine.
Is there a reason you don't want to reduce your sodium intake to below the recommended maximum?
You don't have to answer - I'm just wondering because it seems you are saying that you are aware of the risks and continuing to keep your intake high, and utilize extensive monitoring. I'm just curious because yeah, to know you have a risk factor you could moderate easily, and choose not to, is not a choice I would make. Maybe there is some benefit you are getting that I am not aware of.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Note: even when someone else replied to me and said that they should maybe feel less guilty about their salt snacking, I cautioned that they too should investigate what *their* particular salt needs are. So in no way have I been promoting that people disregard the dangers of too much salt. Not at all.
How does one do that? Like in general I try to keep my sodium low-ish (my husband and mother both have high blood pressure). How would I investigate what my particular salt needs are?
In general, if you're not experiencing symptoms of hyponatremia you are probably fine. I'm not a Dr. but observationally my first signs were muscle spasms and muscle cramping as well as headaches and fatigue. This was largely a combination of low sodium intake with long distance endurance cycling in 100+ degree weather and sweating and drinking primarily water rather than something that would also replenish electrolytes.
I went to my Dr. with my symptoms and my blood work showed that my blood serum levels of sodium had dropped slightly below the normal range (135-145 mEQ/L) and he suggested that I increase my sodium if I was going to be engaging in physical activity so I brought it back up to around 2300mgs per day from around 1500mgs per day. He also had to adjust my blood pressure medication as my BP had dropped well below the normal 120/80. In that regard I did not see a notable difference in my BP from reducing sodium...my BP dropped dramatically with losing weight and regular exercise. I was pretty much a non-responder to sodium reduction.
I don't really have any concern about my sodium intake being too low tbh.
I was more wondering how one with high sodium intake (such as the OP) would decide that they don't need to reduce it to below the generally recommended amount. It seems that @Xellercin is saying that before one reduces their intake they should first find out what the correct intake amount is for their particular needs. Just curious as to how one would go about doing that.
I'm a person with high sodium intake. I don't consider it a problem because my blood pressure is solidly normal (it was high before weight loss), and because I'm active and someone who sweats heavily (and hydrates accordingly).
Could I be creating a long term problem without realizing? Sure. But there are literally no signs that that's true, either in the way of symptoms or blood test results. (I have regular comprehensive blood panels as part of follow-up on my cancer history, and history of high cholesterol - the latter of which has also been solidly normal since weight loss).
I'm not a doctor like Xellercin, but I do see my doctor - multiple doctors, actually** - regularly. I feel like common sense has a role in all of this, balancing factors that are important for an individual.
** This is typical for a 66-year-old with my health history, even though my current health is pretty stellar. I have a GP, pulmonologist (sleep apnea), oncologist, among others I see occasionally for specific follow-up.
If someone actively wants to reduce sodium, just as a bet-hedge, even without a current health trigger to do so, I think that's fine, a good thing to do. It's still easier to give nuanced advice, with some background about the situation.
Interesting - my main concern with high sodium as a somewhat active older woman (57) is not so much high blood pressure (never had an issue with it) but osteoporosis.
My mother has osteoporosis and spinal compression fractures, and my latest osteoarthritis investigations indicated some mild osteopenia, at least in my knee. She always lived a very sedentary lifestyle, and ate/eats a high sodium diet, so hoping a more optimal activity level and diet will stave it off for me.
As someone who doesn't get huge amount of dietary calcium something that might increase calcium excretion is a no go for me.
I do have osteoporosis risk (have osteopenia, may even have osteoporosis), and I'm aware of that side of high sodium, am monitoring, including multiple repeat full bone density tests and a specialist included in my medical team. I don't have much family history of osteoporosis. Unlike you, my calcium intake from food is high (as an ovo-lacto vegetarian) and I supplement that, among other things. FWIW, I'm older than you are, at 66.
I think the main factor in my bone density is a 5-year stint (some years back) on Arimidex (anastrozole), an estrogen synthesis inhibitor, as part of my breast cancer treatment. That seems to have been when my bone quality degradation happened. Just the early menopause (from chemotherapy at 45) is a risk factor, and the (anti-)hormone therapies after that created a sort of hyper-menopausal effect.
In my circumstances, you might make different choices, I understand . . . and that's fine.
Is there a reason you don't want to reduce your sodium intake to below the recommended maximum?
You don't have to answer - I'm just wondering because it seems you are saying that you are aware of the risks and continuing to keep your intake high, and utilize extensive monitoring. I'm just curious because yeah, to know you have a risk factor you could moderate easily, and choose not to, is not a choice I would make. Maybe there is some benefit you are getting that I am not aware of.
My self-perception, which includes attention to relatively frequent test results, is that my activity level (and being a high-sweat individual) makes relatively high sodium manageable/useful, in conjunction with that preference I mentioned to include a range of naturally fermented foods in my diet for their benefits. (I will lose up to a few pounds of bodyweight in one outdoor workout in hot weather, despite hydrating during the workout; and have at times experienced dehydration effects - cognition, fatigue, mild difficulties with coordination - if not careful. I do weigh myself before and after some workouts in hot weather, as one aspect of self-monitoring.)
Perhaps I deceive myself - only the long run will tell. However, I think risk management is an issue of balance, i.e., "reduce all risks everywhere" isn't possible, since some risk-reduction measures conflict with one another.3
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