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Psychiatrists in USA Europe

Mangoperson88
Mangoperson88 Posts: 339 Member
edited July 30 in Debate Club
I live in Mumbai India and i am undergoing treatment for depression, anxiety amongst other stuff. There are some doctors here who openly diss psychiatrists like for eg i had taken my mom to a gynaecologist for a pap smear 3-4 years ago and me and the gyn got talking so i told her I'm depressed and undergoing treatment as my career didn't take off so she's like what's there to be depressed about just get married your depression will go away if you get married. I wanted to whack her! I mean you're a doctor and your intellectual level and calibre is much higher than a layman and you're talking like an uneducated clown? So what i wanna know are shrinks dissed by other doctors/medical professionals too in your country?
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Replies

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 25,688 Member
    Universally? No.

    But doctors are humans, and individuals - so not infallible, and the profession is not an attitudinal monolith.

    Doctors with limited psych education don't know much about psychiatry. Different people (including doctor people) have differing good or bad experiences with psychiatrists (who are also individual people with strengths and weaknesses), and differing prejudices about marriage (or anything else).

    I feel like you're overgeneralizing . . . and so was your doctor.

    Just my individual opinion, though. 😉😆
  • Mangoperson88
    Mangoperson88 Posts: 339 Member
    I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say here. India has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Actually, Pakistan is ahead of us on the global happiness index. My point is lack of mental health awareness! I don't live in the USA but I've learnt on this site about negligence even trivial affects people and docs are dragged to court. It's not the same in India - if a patient dies when they could be saved the relatives just beat up the doctor rather than suing . It's the lack of health awareness and education in general and i feel doctors aggravate that to some extent with their prejudice opinions. Like your govt can't control the gun violence and it's now dangerous to walk down the street in USA as if it were Afghanistan similarly my govt got blinders on about mental health awareness and doctors are not helping.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 25,688 Member
    edited July 30
    I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say here. India has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Actually, Pakistan is ahead of us on the global happiness index. My point is lack of mental health awareness! I don't live in the USA but I've learnt on this site about negligence even trivial affects people and docs are dragged to court. It's not the same in India - if a patient dies when they could be saved the relatives just beat up the doctor rather than suing . It's the lack of health awareness and education in general and i feel doctors aggravate that to some extent with their prejudice opinions. Like your govt can't control the gun violence and it's now dangerous to walk down the street in USA as if it were Afghanistan similarly my govt got blinders on about mental health awareness and doctors are not helping.

    I'm sorry that your doctor treated you shabbily, and showed such extreme, ridiculous prejudices, sincerely.

    My point was: You talked to one doctor, who clearly had dumb ideas. Maybe all doctors in your country think similarly, I don't know.

    You asked if shrinks were dissed by medical doctors in other countries. In my experience, with my doctors, the answer is "no". (I'd observe that - coincidentally - the doctor who's been my GP for around 30 years was born, raised, and educated in India, and doesn't think that way. He has recommended psych services to me when relevant, in a sensible way.)

    I can't speak for others, here or elsewhere.

    BTW: It's not that dangerous to walk down the street in the USA. Some areas are safer than others, quite few are dramatically unsafe. Don't believe everything you see in the media: What merits headlines is unusual things, not common ones. Yes, we have a serious problem with violence here, overall. To translate that to daily danger to all of us in the US is just nonsense, probabilistically speaking.

    I've lived here for 66 years, never seen a single incident of gun violence (or even threat), and only a handful of other types of violence (minor fistfights or push-shove type stuff). Yes, it happens hundreds and maybe thousands of times daily, but spread across a huge expansive of geography, and a big population - but also more frequent in certain relatively small geographic areas. It isn't daily-life common for most of us - not even close.

    That, despite gun ownership being quite common: I was raised around it, know many gun owners, etc. I can only think of one person in my social acquaintance who has mentioned being involved in gun violence (as a victim). I did observe others when I was on a jury in a murder trial, but they were strangers to me, and the trial was related to a very usual incident in this mid-sized (for the US) metropolitan area. It was visibly-covered in the media, though.

  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 7,749 Member
    I'm not quite sure what the debate question is.

    However, answering this" So what i wanna know are shrinks dissed by other doctors/medical professionals too in your country?"

    IME, in my country Australia, no, not at all.

    Psychiatry is respected as a medical specialty like any other specialty and doctors are happy to refer to them if patient has a mental health condition requiring specialist care.
    The system here is that your GP does such a referral - so a gynaecologist wouldn't be involved in that.

    I obviously don't speak for every single doctor/ health professional in Australia - but my experience is of being a nurse for nearly 40 years and of working the last 12 in general practice with many doctors.

    Incidentally several from India and haven't noticed any difference in attitude on this.
    ( almost all GP's in regional Australia are overseas born/ trained from various countries as Australian doctors won't relocate outside of urban areas)
  • JBanx256
    JBanx256 Posts: 1,352 Member
    it's now dangerous to walk down the street in USA as if it were Afghanistan

    No, it's absolutely not.

  • Chef_Barbell
    Chef_Barbell Posts: 6,656 Member
    JBanx256 wrote: »
    it's now dangerous to walk down the street in USA as if it were Afghanistan

    No, it's absolutely not.

    I know right? Like which street? Not that we have 50 different states and commonwealths :laugh:
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 25,688 Member
    JBanx256 wrote: »
    it's now dangerous to walk down the street in USA as if it were Afghanistan

    No, it's absolutely not.

    I know right? Like which street? Not that we have 50 different states and commonwealths :laugh:

    Yeah. And even then, dosage matters, and timing.

    I've walked down streets in inner city Detroit, NYC, and the South side of Chicago - places with bad reps for good reasons.

    Improbably (😉), there were no shootings when I was there, and I personally am still alive, unwounded. (Not saying those are all ultra-safe places to live and work long term in all neighborhoods, though.)
  • JBanx256
    JBanx256 Posts: 1,352 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »

    I've walked down streets in inner city Detroit, NYC, and the South side of Chicago - places with bad reps for good reasons.

    I lived in NYC for a summer (internship) when I was 20....yet lo & behold, here I stand before you, alive & well. Obviously a miracle.

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 25,688 Member
    Look, it's fun being kind of snarky or sarcastic, which we are doing. It's not helpful, really, though, I'm aware.

    This next bit is absolutely serious, and is meant as a true expression of concern.

    As I said in my first post on the thread:
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    (snip)

    I feel like you're overgeneralizing . . . and so was your doctor.

    (snip)

    Overgeneralizing is both a symptom and a trigger for anxiety and depression. Catastrophizing - assuming/believing the worst - can be also. We all do some of it, I know that.

    OP, again: I'm truly sorry that you experienced what you did from that doctor. I'm glad that you are (or at least were) pursuing help to improve your depression, because it's a very serious issue . . . and one that even your mother's gynecologist absolutely should not treat as a joke (even if not your personal doctor), or - bizarrely - treat as curable by marriage. You're right, that was a completely inappropriate thing for any doctor to say.

    I've seen your other posts on this site, and you've been doing very well with making improvements in weight loss, fitness and health: That's a tribute to your character and persistence. I hope it's been empowering, and a positive in your life.

    I also hope you're able to find doctors in your country who will give you the appropriate, needed support across all medical specialties, including psychiatric interventions as needed. We all deserve that respect.

    It seems that there's not a consistent worldwide pattern of other doctors dissing psychiatrists, based on these few reports.

    It's also not the case that it's unsafe to walk the streets in the US - no matter what the media in other countries may say - though we do have excess interpersonal violence, I acknowledge (Any is too much, other than self defense, yes?)

    Every country has its systemic problems. Ideally, they're all working on improving them, but most culture-level fixes are long-term, gradual efforts.
  • JBanx256
    JBanx256 Posts: 1,352 Member
    @AnnPT77 hit the nail on the head. Both my GP and my OB-GYN regularly ask questions about my mental health and have made recommendations; I feel 100% confident that if I were to ask for a referral from either of them, it would be given without hesitation. Beyond medical professionals, my employer provides free mental health counseling (not unlimited, it's only free for X number visits in Y timeframe; after that there is a fee) for employees and their immediate family members. While this is absolutely NOT to say that mental health care in America doesn't have a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of room for improvement, it is safe to say that it's not frowned upon or quite so taboo as it may be in other places. And yes, I'm sure there are individual doctors who think it's silly or trivial or for weak people or whatever, but overall I believe otherwise.

    On a tangential note, if you're looking for a very interesting (and amazingly researched) read on violence (on all scales - from domestic violence and child abuse to full-blown wars), I'd highly recommend Steven Pinker's "Better Angels of Our Nature."
  • Mangoperson88
    Mangoperson88 Posts: 339 Member
    edited August 2
    I apologise to all that was uncalled for. I shouldn't be commenting on your nations political situation when I haven't a clue and i only get information from media. Anyway, it's just that not only docs infact all highly educated people who belong to different professions that I've met are of the same view. My dad's a senior advocate at Bombay High court and he yelled at me for going to my psychiatrist and he said i gotta stop all this when he clearly knows how bad my situation got in Feb this year when I was suffering from suicidal tendencies, insomnia and hallucinations especially at night. I was seeing victims of Nazis and holocaust and they were telling me they want to do to me what was done to them. I clearly saw an old woman with blood and pus on her face and very light blue eyes and a scarf around her head alongwith her was a 3 year old boy covered in tar and he was staring at me. It was a very scary time for me and @AnnPT77 i thought in your first reply you were being hostile so i felt attacked and sniped back. I'm sorry again people.
  • Lietchi
    Lietchi Posts: 4,467 Member
    It might be cultural - not just the attitude towards psychiatrists but the attitude towards mental health in general.

    Even here in Europe, so many people don't ask for help when they have mental issues, because it carries a stigma in society. When looking at US films and series, it would seem half the population has a therapist :mrgreen: No doubt another generalisation (just like the violence thing) but still I'm certain it's more accepted/common to see a therapist in the US than in Belgium. Or if people are seeing therapists here, they certainly aren't as open about it as in the US.

    The distinction between therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists is an important one too. Psychiatrists being the only ones who can prescribe medication (certainly in Belgium, possibly elsewhere too?).

    My boyfriend had severe anxiety attacks a few months ago (stress from starting a new job). His doctor prescribed a herbal supplement (calming effect) and referred him to a kinesiologist specialised in work-related problems. The kinesiologist is giving him breathing exercises and cognitive behavorial therapy, which seems to be working. I'm still amazed he was referred to a kinesiologist and not a therapist, but depending on the country and specific doctor the road to getting help can sometimes be... unusual?
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 25,688 Member
    Lietchi wrote: »
    It might be cultural - not just the attitude towards psychiatrists but the attitude towards mental health in general.

    Even here in Europe, so many people don't ask for help when they have mental issues, because it carries a stigma in society. When looking at US films and series, it would seem half the population has a therapist :mrgreen: No doubt another generalisation (just like the violence thing) but still I'm certain it's more accepted/common to see a therapist in the US than in Belgium. Or if people are seeing therapists here, they certainly aren't as open about it as in the US.

    The distinction between therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists is an important one too. Psychiatrists being the only ones who can prescribe medication (certainly in Belgium, possibly elsewhere too?).

    My boyfriend had severe anxiety attacks a few months ago (stress from starting a new job). His doctor prescribed a herbal supplement (calming effect) and referred him to a kinesiologist specialised in work-related problems. The kinesiologist is giving him breathing exercises and cognitive behavorial therapy, which seems to be working. I'm still amazed he was referred to a kinesiologist and not a therapist, but depending on the country and specific doctor the road to getting help can sometimes be... unusual?

    Trust me, there actually is major stigma in the US in most subcultures about seeking therapy or related medical treatment. The "toughen up" "put on your big boy/girl pants" "it's all in your head" (etc.) rhetoric is common. On top of that - even with that stigma limiting people seeking support - the backlogs to get help are extreme, and cost can be prohibitive for many.

    I can't do comparatives with other countries, but the "everyone has a therapist" idea that one sees in TV shows and movies is not reflective of what I see in daily life, and I'm pretty sure I'm not in the most therapy-shaming demographic or region. I can't think of anyone I know who admits to having a therapist (though it seems likely that some do).

    Brain (psychology, cognition) and body are all one system. Interventions in one of those (supposedly separable) areas affects the other, potentially dramatically. The current cultural stigma, and the access problems, are not acceptable. (As an aside, it seems logical to assume that various cognitive or psychological issues contribute to the US's problems with interpersonal violence, and certainly to suicide levels.)
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 25,688 Member
    I apologise to all that was uncalled for. I shouldn't be commenting on your nations political situation when I haven't a clue and i only get information from media. Anyway, it's just that not only docs infact all highly educated people who belong to different professions that I've met are of the same view. My dad's a senior advocate at Bombay High court and he yelled at me for going to my psychiatrist and he said i gotta stop all this when he clearly knows how bad my situation got in Feb this year when I was suffering from suicidal tendencies, insomnia and hallucinations especially at night. I was seeing victims of Nazis and holocaust and they were telling me they want to do to me what was done to them. I clearly saw an old woman with blood and pus on her face and very light blue eyes and a scarf around her head alongwith her was a 3 year old boy covered in tar and he was staring at me. It was a very scary time for me and @AnnPT77 i thought in your first reply you were being hostile so i felt attacked and sniped back. I'm sorry again people.

    ((Hugs)) @Mangoperson88 - I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. That is just awful. I'm so glad that you've made progress. Hang in there, keep going!

    I'm sorry that my initial reply seemed harsh, sincerely. I think I didn't communicate well, didn't hear well where you were coming from, didn't communicate my full feelings. Here and always, I think there should be no stigma in seeking psychiatric or related care, and it should be available to those who need it. In part, I probably over-reacted emotionally to the comment about safety here, as it's frustrating to hear unrealistic stereotypes about the US (not that we don't have plenty of real problems!) . . . but that's no excuse.
  • Mangoperson88
    Mangoperson88 Posts: 339 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I apologise to all that was uncalled for. I shouldn't be commenting on your nations political situation when I haven't a clue and i only get information from media. Anyway, it's just that not only docs infact all highly educated people who belong to different professions that I've met are of the same view. My dad's a senior advocate at Bombay High court and he yelled at me for going to my psychiatrist and he said i gotta stop all this when he clearly knows how bad my situation got in Feb this year when I was suffering from suicidal tendencies, insomnia and hallucinations especially at night. I was seeing victims of Nazis and holocaust and they were telling me they want to do to me what was done to them. I clearly saw an old woman with blood and pus on her face and very light blue eyes and a scarf around her head alongwith her was a 3 year old boy covered in tar and he was staring at me. It was a very scary time for me and @AnnPT77 i thought in your first reply you were being hostile so i felt attacked and sniped back. I'm sorry again people.

    ((Hugs)) @Mangoperson88 - I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. That is just awful. I'm so glad that you've made progress. Hang in there, keep going!

    I'm sorry that my initial reply seemed harsh, sincerely. I think I didn't communicate well, didn't hear well where you were coming from, didn't communicate my full feelings. Here and always, I think there should be no stigma in seeking psychiatric or related care, and it should be available to those who need it. In part, I probably over-reacted emotionally to the comment about safety here, as it's frustrating to hear unrealistic stereotypes about the US (not that we don't have plenty of real problems!) . . . but that's no excuse.

    We both overreacted!! Because i thought you were being condescending with the " you're overgeneralising" comment. Believe me i hold USA in a very high regard! It's one of the best countries in the world along with most European countries.so i always assumed since European countries and USA are developed and first world so your mental health care would be excellent but what you and @Lietchi said was sad and eye opening. Your countries are educational hubs!! So many Asians and others salivate over the prospect of studying there :# me too ;) since i couldnt i plan to study law here and do something about mental health awareness or lack of!! In my country. I really want to de- stigmatise mental illness because most mentally ill are not bad people. Since i have no education about my country laws my plan is still sketchy but i hope i can make a change and once again I will always be a well wisher of USA!!
  • emgracewrites
    emgracewrites Posts: 121 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Lietchi wrote: »
    It might be cultural - not just the attitude towards psychiatrists but the attitude towards mental health in general.

    Even here in Europe, so many people don't ask for help when they have mental issues, because it carries a stigma in society. When looking at US films and series, it would seem half the population has a therapist :mrgreen: No doubt another generalisation (just like the violence thing) but still I'm certain it's more accepted/common to see a therapist in the US than in Belgium. Or if people are seeing therapists here, they certainly aren't as open about it as in the US.

    The distinction between therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists is an important one too. Psychiatrists being the only ones who can prescribe medication (certainly in Belgium, possibly elsewhere too?).

    My boyfriend had severe anxiety attacks a few months ago (stress from starting a new job). His doctor prescribed a herbal supplement (calming effect) and referred him to a kinesiologist specialised in work-related problems. The kinesiologist is giving him breathing exercises and cognitive behavorial therapy, which seems to be working. I'm still amazed he was referred to a kinesiologist and not a therapist, but depending on the country and specific doctor the road to getting help can sometimes be... unusual?

    Trust me, there actually is major stigma in the US in most subcultures about seeking therapy or related medical treatment. The "toughen up" "put on your big boy/girl pants" "it's all in your head" (etc.) rhetoric is common. On top of that - even with that stigma limiting people seeking support - the backlogs to get help are extreme, and cost can be prohibitive for many.

    This is so true. Took me a long time to seek help because it felt like giving up or failing somehow. So yeah, the stigma is definitely real.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 32,488 Member
    I keep reading on this site that help is difficult to access...I'm in the U.S. and I've never run into "backlog" issues when seeking any type of medical or psychological help. Interesting.

    With that said, my personal issues are best solved by me. I've tried "therapy" and found it to be not only unhelpful but actually harmful. Same with pills.

    YMMV, but I do best both physically and mentally when I eat well, get enough sleep and generally live by the rule that, "What people think about me is none of my business."

    Prayer, meditation, exercise, writing in a journal, eight hours sleep, and good nutrition are far more healing to me than outside help.
  • Chef_Barbell
    Chef_Barbell Posts: 6,656 Member
    I keep reading on this site that help is difficult to access...I'm in the U.S. and I've never run into "backlog" issues when seeking any type of medical or psychological help. Interesting.

    With that said, my personal issues are best solved by me. I've tried "therapy" and found it to be not only unhelpful but actually harmful. Same with pills.

    YMMV, but I do best both physically and mentally when I eat well, get enough sleep and generally live by the rule that, "What people think about me is none of my business."

    Prayer, meditation, exercise, writing in a journal, eight hours sleep, and good nutrition are far more healing to me than outside help.

    Financial situations would make a difference here. As well as insurance.
  • SuzySunshine99
    SuzySunshine99 Posts: 2,800 Member
    edited August 3
    I keep reading on this site that help is difficult to access...I'm in the U.S. and I've never run into "backlog" issues when seeking any type of medical or psychological help. Interesting.

    With that said, my personal issues are best solved by me. I've tried "therapy" and found it to be not only unhelpful but actually harmful. Same with pills.

    YMMV, but I do best both physically and mentally when I eat well, get enough sleep and generally live by the rule that, "What people think about me is none of my business."

    Prayer, meditation, exercise, writing in a journal, eight hours sleep, and good nutrition are far more healing to me than outside help.

    Things changed during Covid. More people were seeking help, and the rise of "virtual" appointments made it more accessible. BUT, the number of providers did not increase. My sister is a psychologist, and has a 6-month waiting list for an initial appointment. And after that, her patients have to wait an unreasonable amount of time for a follow-up appointment. It's the same with all her colleagues. Her employer, a hospital, keeps telling them that they have to get these patients in. But, there's only so many hours in the day.

    And to be clear, she's not a therapist and can't prescribe pills. She treats serious psychological disorders that can't be resolved with sleep and nutrition.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 25,688 Member
    I keep reading on this site that help is difficult to access...I'm in the U.S. and I've never run into "backlog" issues when seeking any type of medical or psychological help. Interesting.

    With that said, my personal issues are best solved by me. I've tried "therapy" and found it to be not only unhelpful but actually harmful. Same with pills.

    YMMV, but I do best both physically and mentally when I eat well, get enough sleep and generally live by the rule that, "What people think about me is none of my business."

    Prayer, meditation, exercise, writing in a journal, eight hours sleep, and good nutrition are far more healing to me than outside help.

    Financial situations would make a difference here. As well as insurance.

    Plus location, and need for a sub-specialty (adolescent, addiction, etc.). I have good access even now through a my large pre-retirement employer's counseling service for limited-course needs, and there are therapists in numbers in my mid-sized metro area. (I don't know what their backlog is, haven't needed to find out lately.) However, friends and relative in rural or small-town settings will find logistically convenient in-person services to be thin on the ground.

    It's good that virtual is now more of an option, but there are tradeoffs with that modality.