Health Management and Mental Health
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Thanks ReenieHJ
I am pleased that I was able to regroup and recommit to the plan. I agree with the view that we will have great days, good days, not so great days and days to forget. Food is not the enemy and we are not slaves or victims. Just living organisms who have developed patterns and habits which require corrections and updates. A new day and off we go.
Take care
Shel
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Some thoughts....
I wonder if accepting the way our body looks and feels is a prerequisite to commencing a life-changing process? It seems to me that seeing weight loss as a chore or even worse, a "battle" puts at odds with our physical selves. It is as if we hate ourselves as a starting point and then go on the attack. We disrupt our typical routines and predictable eating behaviours and place entirely new demands on our "poor" and "unsuspecting" bodies and then.....want results. If we accepted our bodies at the beginning of the process we are all trying to succeed at; it may be a labour of love rather than the war between good and evil. Calories are not the problem. Food is not the enemy and our bodies are not at fault for having to digest and process what we put in them. Let's reframe the entire way of looking at this and see it as a gradual, respectful and kind way to get ourselves healthy and fit without the sense of panic and self-loathing, What do you think about this? Am I being too idealistic? Would love to canvass your thoughts.
Shel
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This is the way I look at things. I can't be doing with the mindset that I am somehow 'bad' because of my weight. What I eat is not an indication of my moral character. It might indicate other things about how I'm feeling, but that's different.
I focus on eating lots of fruit and veg and while foods, because it makes me feel better. I want to be stronger, faster, more able to do fun stuff. How I train and what I eat have an impact on that, so I try to make it positive. Weight loss is part of the change, but my measurements, how I carry myself, improved mental health are all part of it. I'm not that bothered about the numbers, so mostly they gradually drift downwards while I'm doing other stuff.0 -
I actually finally sought out a therapist partly because I was trying all the things that had worked before to lose weight and it just wasn't working. Finally got diagnosed with adhd and learned how it can cause weight gain and binge eating due to low dopamine and bad impulse control. Finally on meds and finding it easier to exercise and stick to calories. The whole lifestyle change and habit making advise just doesn't always work when you're fighting with chemical imbalances in your head.
Yes, my normal coping techniques were not enough to deal with with pandemic and I've been in therapy since 2020, which was good because I then had the additional stress of my partner and I both losing our jobs, selling our house to move in with family (wanted to help my 84 yo mother who is losing her vision and mind and my mentally ill brother), and then that not working out and turning into a nightmare living situation. Wish we'd kept our house with our $600/month mortgage >.<
I get my healthcare through the VA and love how they have expanded tele-health. I also got into an ACT group, anger management group (more for communication techniques than traditional anger management), and have a stress management group coming up in September - all virtual.
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Shel... im just posting to say openly, I am over eating again.. after being clinically obese at 138kg, coming down to 73kg back to 82kg and feeling alot of shame here... i am eating until I hurt. I feel so bloated and lethargic, looking at photos seeing it show on my face is so hard. Im trying to track calories though am not consistent. So frustrating3
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Hi Pera_aus_2021
Over eating is so familiar to meet it is as if you are telling my story. The "domino effect" I call it. One thing begins to break down and the bad choices just all fall on one another. This happens for a reason or reasons and I would not be arrogant enough to offer any superficial advice or comment. Just take in some long deep breaths as you stare down Mt. Everest and do what has worked in the past. Don't forget to seek professional guidance with someone with expertise in the eating disorder world. You will find the journey tough but worthwhile. I am here for you. Take care
Shel0 -
Up and down. Up and down. Not sure at times how to measure progress. Consistency? Bathroom scales? How clothing fits? People's comments? Personal feelings? Doctor's opinion.....
I get that this "thread"is just one of too many. I guess I am in touch with a deeper reality today. It's not really about weight loss. Maybe it's really about whether we are where we want to be in our lives. Perhaps we let our bodies go when we stop caring about our future. Feed our stomach to make us feel full and satisfied because deep down we are "unfulfilled". Hmmmm. Just thinking out loud. Okay...time to talk to my therapist. This shouldn't be so confusing. It is just a matter of sticking to the plan. I'm sure other people don't struggle like this.
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Reboot!!
Okay...Birthday weekend and was spoiled. Consequences....kicked out of Ketoville and up 2 kg. I do not feel too guilty and am surprisingly motivated to make August 1st 2022 a start day (again). Been here before but we cannot live in the past. I want/deserve to feel/be healthy and the challenge is ahead. I do not think it will ever be a straight line. Let's do this.
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Hi everyone
Back in Ketoland. I know, I know. It must be boring hearing my roller coaster ride with Ketosis. I am sorry about that. It is just that Keto for me represents being "on the wagon". I wish I was more consistent. Day by day. I sure envy people who do not have to think about food endlessly. I wonder if it ever gets easier?Any thoughts?
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Hi everyone
Back in Ketoland. I know, I know. It must be boring hearing my roller coaster ride with Ketosis. I am sorry about that. It is just that Keto for me represents being "on the wagon". I wish I was more consistent. Day by day. I sure envy people who do not have to think about food endlessly. I wonder if it ever gets easier?Any thoughts?
Sadly, I'm either obsessing on food, or I'm eating mindlessly, and it's the mindlessness that leads to weight gain for me. I hope it doesn't always have to be that way, but after 42 years, I'm starting to have doubts.0 -
Reboot!!
Okay...Birthday weekend and was spoiled. Consequences....kicked out of Ketoville and up 2 kg. I do not feel too guilty and am surprisingly motivated to make August 1st 2022 a start day (again). Been here before but we cannot live in the past. I want/deserve to feel/be healthy and the challenge is ahead. I do not think it will ever be a straight line. Let's do this.
Birthdays are supposed to be fun, and that can involve a little indulgence, IMO. (Happy belated birthday!)
Also IMO: Straight lines are not essential, and can be pretty boring. Overall positive direction on average is just fine.
The majority of our days determines the majority of our outcome. Rare exceptions are a drop in the ocean.Hi everyone
Back in Ketoland. I know, I know. It must be boring hearing my roller coaster ride with Ketosis. I am sorry about that. It is just that Keto for me represents being "on the wagon". I wish I was more consistent. Day by day. I sure envy people who do not have to think about food endlessly. I wonder if it ever gets easier?Any thoughts?
Someone here - don't remember who - once typed "there is no wagon, so we can't fall off". That resonated with me.
You and I are in different spots (I'm in maintenance now) and have different outlooks/personalities (inevitably, because we're each individuals, right?).
For me, weight management meant more thoughts about food, but that was a positive.
Before I truly committed to manage my weight, I'd been pretty much shoving any food I encountered into my mouth and chewing. I didn't much matter whether it tasted excellent, made me feel good/energetic, or anything like that. If I didn't hate it, and it was there, I'd eat it.
When working from a "calorie budget" standpoint, it became much more important to me to choose things that I found yummy, that were nutritious (so made me feel good, over time), that were practical/affordable, and that were a good use of my calories in general (subjectively). That actually took more conscious attention, vs. the "shove it my mouth" method. But it was fun to think about seeking out yummy foods (visiting farmers markets more, for one), learning new ways to cook them, planning what I wanted to eat to maximize the value of my daily calories . . . kind of like a fun game?
That, in a context where - finally! - I realized that getting to a healthy weight and staying there was going to let future Ann have a healthier, happier life, too. It was a matter of balancing current pleasure with future well-being, and that does take a little thought. Seems worth it, to me.
YMMV, though. Best wishes, regardless - I think you're doing just fine. The only way to fail is if we give up. You're keeping going. That's great!
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What an awesome answer with some great strategies embedded in your helpful comments. Thank you. "balancing current pleasures with future well being". Love it!!!!Something about this approach resonates with me. I'm not completely sure I can implement the positive strategies as a "game" because it seems to real to me. This doesn't mean it's not a great metaphor. For me, I think it can be simplified to thinking about the "aim" and "purpose" of well being and just aligning my choices and decisions with a higher purpose and a better future. I think we need to remember our higher purposes and goals and untangle our confused and often dumb choices we make that completely take us off course. I will spend some time today thinking about the "bigger picture" and try and align myself with my higher goals. Make sense?
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What an awesome answer with some great strategies embedded in your helpful comments. Thank you. "balancing current pleasures with future well being". Love it!!!!Something about this approach resonates with me. I'm not completely sure I can implement the positive strategies as a "game" because it seems to real to me. This doesn't mean it's not a great metaphor. For me, I think it can be simplified to thinking about the "aim" and "purpose" of well being and just aligning my choices and decisions with a higher purpose and a better future. I think we need to remember our higher purposes and goals and untangle our confused and often dumb choices we make that completely take us off course. I will spend some time today thinking about the "bigger picture" and try and align myself with my higher goals. Make sense?
TBH, this is all pretty individual. I know this is weird, but I don't really have much sense of myself as having a higher purpose. As someone who's frankly pretty hedonistic, a key cognitive piece for me was realizing that my future self (in one sense) is a real person, and that she (I) will want to be happy later if I can, too - not fat, sick, dependent, etc. . . . as long as I can avoid it, anyway. When that clicked for me, it was pretty powerful, pretty persuasive.
I can understand thinking of positive strategies as a game only metaphorically, but to me the food and activity parts of it kind of are a game literally, too, just one with real-world rewards built in.
It's fun to mix and match foods to see how well I can optimize all of tastiness, nutrition, calorie appropriateness, ease of prep, affordability, etc. It's like Tetris - if you've ever played that - but with food characteristics instead of geometric shapes. I enjoy the process, and I get rewards when I do well at the mix'n'match - the rewards are enjoyment, energy, health, etc. Big stakes!
YMMV significantly, though: Personalization of the weight management process is a key to success, I think. We all have different preferences, strengths, challenges, so our strategies need to differ, too.1 -
"The majority of our days determines the majority of our outcome. Rare exceptions are a drop in the ocean."
Ooh I'll have to remember this! So simple, yet so true. Thanks Ann.
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The idea of making eating "fun" by mixing and matching and trying out new food types and preparation processes sounds reasonable. I suppose if those of us who really struggle with our old patterns and habits could break them and just introduce new eating and prep methodologies easily, we would have done that by now. This is one of my main concerns with fashionable diets and clever marketing schemes which makes it look simple and slick. If someone approaches the eating"game" in a healthy way, then it is most likely that he/she will incorporate the common-sense principles of effective calorie monitoring, and responsible eating without requiring a brain transplant. But.... for those of us that may find the process a bit more daunting, I think we may need a bit more time, attention and support in moving forward and discovering what really has to change to make the differences we are so desperate to experience.For me, it is an entire revision of my health landscape and how I treat myself and my body. I think it is about our relationship with ourselves and how eating has evolved as we have grown and developed. Food becomes our friend, lover, distractor and (at times) obsession. We have to be honest about that...Why else would we be on this forum? Let's respect the complexity of the challenge and proceed with caution AND make the necessary changes in a careful, gentle and honest way; with professional help, guidance and supervision. This is just my view and I would love to hear your feedback and opinions. Thanks for listening.
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I suppose if those of us who really struggle with our old patterns and habits could break them and just introduce new eating and prep methodologies easily, we would have done that by now.
Shel, I think virtually everyone here has struggled and nothing about getting to goal (and more importantly maintaining our weight loss for years) was easy or quick.
For me, breaking old habits and patterns was a tremendous amount of work, as it is for everyone, but I did it, not by trying to change my life overnight by being “on” a diet or “on” a program or “on” the wagon, but ny making very small, incremental changes to my habits that I could sustain over time. Over years these new habits have become my life, so there is no needing to get motivated, or “start over” because very slowly, one habit at a time, I changed the way I live my life. I still indulge, eat the foods I like, and enjoy my life, but I have learned to do it in a calorie range that maintains my weight.
That doesn’t mean I didn’t “struggle with old habits” and could “easily break them.” Most of us here know how to lose weight. We’ve done it a thousand times, right? We also know how to gain weight. Because our whole lives have been spent either being on a diet and losing or eating the way we “like” and gaining. But we have no idea how to just stay the same weight (whatever that weight is). Learning to maintain your weight is critical to being successful at weight loss, unless your definition of success does not include keeping the weight off. To actually lose weight and keep it off, forever (well for me 10 years) I had to VERY SLOWLY change one habit at a time in a way that I could sustain forever.
If this interests you, two podcasts that helped me and still help me are Half Size Me and We Only Look Thin. Best of luck to you and hope you find what you are looking for.1 -
@shel80kg, I think @ChickenKillerPuppy has given you a much better and more useful answer than I'd be capable of doing.
I agree with the strategies she suggests, and they're similar to what I did myself. I'd been overweight to obese for around 30 years, but I didn't change my exercise routine at all to lose weight - was already active; and didn't much change the general range of foods I ate - I just ate them in different portions, proportions on the plates, and reduced frequency of very calorie dense things.
I think it's useful to realize that everyone's reasons for over-eating can be very individual. I perceive myself as more hedonistic than as eating for emotional reasons (for example), and that implies different strategies.
But, to be explicit, I'm not making a value judgement about others' starting points. We need to manage or wrangle or persuade or game our individual selves, within our individual preferences, strengths or limitations, and everyone has to work through that at an individual level. Other people can offer ideas, but we need to figure out which will work for us.
As an aside, I think I'm not making my point clearly about what I'm finding fun in thinking about food, that feels like a fun game or a good thing for me. I fear it's coming across as me trivializing the effort any and all of us need to make, and that's not what I'm getting it. It's more that some aspects of the complexity of the challenge are intellectually and psychologically interesting to me because of the complexity, and working out the complexity is like a fun science fair experiment. But I don't know how to express myself in a different way. And it may not be true for others, even if it is for me.1 -
Dear Ann and Chicken
Thank you for your responses. Really helpful and poignant.I am impatient and easily frustrated; expecting results in an unrealistic manner. I appreciate the time you both spent clarifying and adding to my insight. I cannot thank you enough. Both posts were excellent.
Thank you
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I just found this thread and some of what you say resonates with me. I had to deal with the mental health aspects well before I could commit to any type of weight loss attempt. It started somewhere around winter 2017 and took a few years. It coincided with the body positivity movement so alongside learning to love myself as a person, I learned to love my body. Less about liking the look of every bump but more about appreciating what my body does for me, how this is just as much a part of me as the stuff in my head. There are still a few things I don't really like the look of but I needed to feel the peace of loving myself before I could add the stressor that is weight loss.
Then the pandemic hit and I figured I should be extra kind to myself. The only things I wanted to attempt were eating fruit more frequently and learning how to cook (since I moved out again near the start of the pandemic). During the pandemic I was entirely sedentary and unmotivated to exercise and I was gaining weight because of all these changes but these decisions to eat fruit and to cook well have made losing weight once I incorporated regular exercise very easy.
I have been overweight all my life and was always forced to watch what I eat but I never lost any weight and instead developed a horrible relationship with food. What I wanna say is I needed to unlearn all that and get into the right mindset to get where I am now, consistently losing. I don't personally obsess over a few days of eating at maintenance or even at a surplus and I don't think about food all day but it was a journey to get there and I had a lot of setbacks before I seriously started losing weight. And because I'm okay with me as I am and probably in large also because I have no health problems related to my weight, I find this whole thing somewhat of an experiment or game as well. It's freeing to know your maintenance range and your normal (water) weight fluctuations and the calories in things so you don't stress if you go 200 cals into a surplus once if you've been 500 cals into a deficit every other day that same week. It makes me feel like I'm in control and if I follow the plan to the best of my ability I'll get where I want to be. The game part for me is seeing what choices have which consequences and what rate of loss I prefer with which activity level.
I hope you can find an equally freeing method in keto. I know a lot of people who swear by it and who got amazing results so I hope your experience with it will be positive and stressfree.3 -
ChickenKillerPuppy wrote: »I suppose if those of us who really struggle with our old patterns and habits could break them and just introduce new eating and prep methodologies easily, we would have done that by now.
Shel, I think virtually everyone here has struggled and nothing about getting to goal (and more importantly maintaining our weight loss for years) was easy or quick.
For me, breaking old habits and patterns was a tremendous amount of work, as it is for everyone, but I did it, not by trying to change my life overnight by being “on” a diet or “on” a program or “on” the wagon, but ny making very small, incremental changes to my habits that I could sustain over time. Over years these new habits have become my life, so there is no needing to get motivated, or “start over” because very slowly, one habit at a time, I changed the way I live my life. I still indulge, eat the foods I like, and enjoy my life, but I have learned to do it in a calorie range that maintains my weight.
That doesn’t mean I didn’t “struggle with old habits” and could “easily break them.” Most of us here know how to lose weight. We’ve done it a thousand times, right? We also know how to gain weight. Because our whole lives have been spent either being on a diet and losing or eating the way we “like” and gaining. But we have no idea how to just stay the same weight (whatever that weight is). Learning to maintain your weight is critical to being successful at weight loss, unless your definition of success does not include keeping the weight off. To actually lose weight and keep it off, forever (well for me 10 years) I had to VERY SLOWLY change one habit at a time in a way that I could sustain forever.
If this interests you, two podcasts that helped me and still help me are Half Size Me and We Only Look Thin. Best of luck to you and hope you find what you are looking for.
I'm a fan of Half Size Me. If I were to pay anyone for weight loss advice, it would be Heather. Despite not being a dietitian, etc., she provides better advice that the multiple dietitians I've had available through my VA healthcare.
For example, the last one certainly sounded knowledgeable, but he sure wasn't picking up what I was putting down about fat. I have a medical condition that responds positively to reduced fat, which for me is right around the MFP default of 30%, which I told him. Several times.
He kept going on and on about healthy fats and pushing nuts, olive oil, etc., on me. I do eat these, but I have to LIMIT them, and he just wasn't getting that. I was able to find this funny, but only because I'm not paying for these visits, which are virtual, and so a small time commitment and no financial investment.2
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