Why is Ronnie Coleman suffering? Are we all doomed? Strength training bad?

vm007
vm007 Posts: 241 Member
edited November 2022 in Health and Weight Loss
I saw a documentary and saw the condition he was in. I'm not even close to his 1% strength level but I lift weights and try to push as much as I can.

Lower, upper, arms/abs, lower, upper - 5 days a week.

I workout, eat and try to maintain. Been trying to lose my last 5-7 kg and it's been a year and I keep fluctuating 80-83 then 83-80 kg.

Point is pushing weight and now increasing weight or Reps with time is causing stress to joints? The exercises I do are also squat, lunge, Hex DL, Bench, Row, Lat.

How do we protect ourselves? The whole point of working out is better long term health right? My weight is okay ish as in but if I end up having joints issues or what not then is this all worth it? Should I just do yoga and stretching and prepare for end of the days?

*yes I know Ronnie was/is a beast and took extra help using (let's say chocolate milk) but that one thing can't be responsible for all issues right?

Replies

  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,847 Member
    edited November 2022
    He herniated a disk while heavy squatting, then didn't allow it to heal up or seek proper treatment before continuing training. The problem snowballed into more disk issues, more surgeries, and so on.

    It's a real shame. He seems like such a nice guy, and keeps putting in the effort despite what must be enormous pain.

    Of course strength training isn't bad. For starters, naturals shouldn't even attempt to do the sort of weight "enhanced" can do. In general, avoid ego lifting. Also, you also don't need to push your 1RM. I don't even know what my actual 1RM is on anything, I just estimate it via online calculators from the number of reps I do. And if you do get injured, be sure to heal up and ease back into it.

  • metaphysicalstudio
    metaphysicalstudio Posts: 293 Member
    Taking time to heal injuries is important. Also, I feel like engaging in a variety of movement is good
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    edited November 2022
    Bodybuilding and power lifting and training for those things at professional competition levels is quite different than just hitting the gym with a good strength program. The vast majority of professional athletes have issues at some point because the level of stress they put their bodies through while training is far and above anything gen pop is doing just to be fit and healthy.

    As to how to protect yourself? Use basic common sense. If you're injured, heal before you continue. If you feel like you're putting your joints or body through undo stress, pick a different program, etc. Professional athletes often train through and play through injuries and have to train in ways that may ultimately be detrimental to their long term health...because it's their job and livelihood. That isn't applicable to gen pop.
  • vm007
    vm007 Posts: 241 Member
    It was just disheartening seeing "all that" for what?
    Isn't there a rule even for us general public that we have to keep pushing? "progressive overload" wouldn't that be same as them? Literally called "overload" lol.
    I mean i didn't stop working out, I just started feeling like "meh"
  • JBanx256
    JBanx256 Posts: 1,479 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »

    I don't see the point of catastrophizing - especially based on an extreme example.

    This. Take an extreme of ANYTHING and you will find a horror story. That's like suggesting that because a professional race car driver died in a horrific crash, you should never get into another motorized vehicle. Think about all the things you do daily; how many people have either gotten seriously injured or died doing those very same things? People freakin' choke to death on food, break their necks falling down stairs, drown in pools, get tangled in bedsheets (fun fact: the number of people who die by becoming entangled in their bedsheets correlates to the US per capita consumption of cheese)

    Can you REDUCE your risk of certain harms? Of course. Don't drive at triple-digit speeds on public roads. Buckle up. Don't run red lights. Don't text & drive. Etc etc etc...

    Ronnie Coleman pushed the limits of what the human body can do. He was absolutely NOT lifting for "better long-term health." And no, those extra special sports supplements are absolutely NOT to blame for his current condition. Did he always make choices that everyone else would consider wise? Absolutely not. But he did what he wanted to with his body, put it through all shades of hell, to achieve something none of us ever will. If I remember correctly, watching his documentary, HE said that HE THOUGHT it was all worth it. As an outsider looking in, I'm not of the same opinion, but it's not my life.

    If you wanna keep lifting, keep lifting. But (try to) make smart choices. Anyone who has lifted for long has dealt with at least some degree of one injury or another *raises hand* But when you get hurt, seek proper medical attention if it's warranted, but at the very least give your body time to heal, maybe consider a modifying the movement or try an entirely different movement if one in particular causes pain, etc. If that sounds too risky or scary for you, then hey, that's your call.





  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    vm007 wrote: »
    It was just disheartening seeing "all that" for what?
    Isn't there a rule even for us general public that we have to keep pushing? "progressive overload"wouldn't that be same as them? Literally called "overload" lol.
    I mean i didn't stop working out, I just started feeling like "meh"

    Yes, no, maybe. Depends on your goals...depends on where you're at with your lifts...depends on whether or not you're content with current strength levels, current size, etc. It's no different than cardiovascular training really...for example, you can be a runner and improve and progress on your time and distance but depending on your goals, it may or may not be necessary to train to the level of 1/2 marathon or marathon runner...many are content with 5Ks and 10Ks and have no interest in progressing beyond that...and sure, they can improve times for those distances, but eventually everyone plateaus somewhere with natural ability and genetics.

    I've lifted for a number of years and I know plenty of people who are "maintenance" lifters...ie they are content with their current level of strength and physique. I know athletes (sport and endurance) who lift specific to their sport or lift as supplementary training and their focus isn't on adding plates or moving as much weight as possible...the purpose is functional to their sport and they may be focused on muscular endurance, or power generation, speed, etc. Progressive overload itself can be different things...it's not necessarily just adding more weight...it could be less weight but increased time under tensions...it could be less weight but moving that weight faster and developing burst power under load. It's more nuanced than some extreme example of Ronnie Coleman.

    In your OP you also mentioned pushing "as hard as you can". This is also not the best training strategy. Are you running a structured program? Your sets should be challenging, but you shouldn't be at failure...generally speaking you should pretty much always have around 2-3 left in the tank unless you're doing a 1 RM or "max effort sets". My program has max effort sets on 1 or 2 of my lifts every workout, but out of, say 5 sets, only 1 or 2 of those sets at the back end will be max effort sets where I basically use up those 2-3 reps I have left in the tank.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,203 Member
    edited November 2022
    vm007 wrote: »
    It was just disheartening seeing "all that" for what?
    Isn't there a rule even for us general public that we have to keep pushing? "progressive overload" wouldn't that be same as them? Literally called "overload" lol.
    I mean i didn't stop working out, I just started feeling like "meh"

    This reply makes me, too, wonder if there's some overdoing/overtraining in the picture for you - physical or psychological. Most programs will have you deload (reduce intensity in some way) periodically. Are you doing that? "Progressive overload" IMU is just supposed to mean increasing the challenge gradually, in a manageable way . . . not trying to break yourself five days every single week forever.

    Also, as Wolfman sensibly points out, maintenance intensity is a thing, at any point, temporarily or long term.

    I'd also feel compelled to say this, with the recognition that I may be reading inaccurately between the lines: If you're not enjoying your program, not feeling like your results are worth the time/effort involvement, the commitment is interfering in some way with your good overall life balance (enough time/energy for other things important to you) . . . you don't have to continue just because a progressive overload strength training program is touted as a generic Good Thing (or even Best Thing).

    Yes, if you want the results, you need to do the work. But it's not obligatory in the abstract.

    I don't think anyone can do every single thing that is good or healthy or useful for a human to do. There are choices and tradeoffs. It's always weird to me when people here seem to feel that they can't or shouldn't choose a particular course unless it's the theoretically ideal thing universally. (We see that here sometimes with people who are proselytizing for some named diet that works well for them, or for a particular style of workout. Some of those seem to feel a need to believe that what they prefer is The Best For Everyone.)

    It's OK - mentally healthy, I'd say - to figure out what works for ourselves as individuals, and let others do likewise. If the theoretical ideal screws up my quality of life overall, I'm pretty happy with some variation that's more practical for me.

    In your OP, you say:
    vm007 wrote: »

    How do we protect ourselves? The whole point of working out is better long term health right? My weight is okay ish as in but if I end up having joints issues or what not then is this all worth it? Should I just do yoga and stretching and prepare for end of the days?

    What is your goal? If it's maximizing strength, or getting to a bodybuilder type physique, then some kind of progressive overload (not progressive overdoing!) is necessary for quite a long time.

    But if your goal is simply best odds of long term good health, you definitely do not need to be constantly pushing that hard.
  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 11,616 Member
    Progressive overload itself can be different things...it's not necessarily just adding more weight...

    30-tips-to-increase-strength-training-intensity

    This thread offers a variety of examples of how to progress that aren't simply a matter of adding weight.
  • vm007
    vm007 Posts: 241 Member
    springlering62 wrote: »
    The whole point of working out is better long term health right? My weight is okay ish as in but if I end up having joints issues or what not then is this all worth it? Should I just do yoga and stretching and prepare for end of the days?


    Old me. Obese, out of shape, suffering with arthritis and constant joint pain, probably less than 5,000 steps a day being only movent, flaming GERD, constant draining exhaustion, facing additional daily medications above the meds already on, diabetes and heart disease clearly on the horizon. Spent a few weeks on a walker and then a cane. Muscles? Give me a break. Maybe in my jaw from ripping bags of M&Ms open with my teeth?

    New me. Currently 80 pounds lighter, spends several hours a day walking 18,000+ steps a day and working out. Relatively nice muscles. No meds. No GERD (on my knees in thanks for that one). Arthritis gone. I cavort like a person half my age. My happiness quotient has gone up a hundredfold because I can move, baby.

    Yeah. I have permanent shoulder pain and nagging yoga butt. I get muscle cramps. I’m often “tired” in an “I’ve earned it” way, not constantly “fat-fatigued” (those of you who have been, know exactly what I mean).

    Would I say it’s worth all the time and effort, all the hours per day, the “new” residual pain?

    Hell yeah.

    And that’s not even taking into account the vanity bit and the fun, perky clothes.

    Prepare for the end of days? Years are like those M&Ms. You can mindlessly eat the whole bag, and suddenly they’re all gone and you don’t even remember eating them. I figure I’ve got maybe 25 good ones left. I’m tired of M&M years.

    I just feel like "I wish" I had started earlier. Lol I also think about "what if" I had started 10 years ago instead 4. "What if" I had known about CICO 10 years ago and importance of strength training but then I realize, maybe I would've mentally burned out.

    Even now sometimes I am at the edge of burning out mentally. I try to do random things, like yesterday I took the stairs all the way to 18th floor. I' rarely did 3 floors to my office and then out of no where. On 7th floor I was dead. All the rest of the floors my mind was like "bruh you weak, just put one step in front of another, stop whining, just put the next foot forward" .

    My body had given up on 7th but without a pause I made it to 18th floor all because my mind didn't give up. I was not sore and I was able to do my leg workout like a normal human.

    The saying of "listen to your body" lol if I do that, I doubt I'd make progress in gym. I guess with time I'll be able to bring mind and body in harmony.

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