Do you intentionally not record certain meals in your nutrition diaries? Why?
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That is essentially it: the study of yourself, not the acceptance of some imaginary "average person". Biology is complicated and messy. We are all different. It is a cliché and it is true. You will never know how much energy you need until you try to find it out. You find that out by diligent tracking. Science requires time, discipline and love of reality, the very reasons quacks hate it. You are trying to become a scientist specialised in yourself. Study yourself. You are worth every effort you put in that study.Even if logging your days when you don't end up doing what you "should" do doesn't make you more motivated in coming days, just making logging a habit and observing what you eat, what you log, and how your body responds will give you greater knowledge. That will let you make logical decisions and set appropriate goals as you progress.
Definitely don't beat yourself up. That's counter productive. Do let yourself be honest with yourself. That's all it is. It's about building and reinforcing habits; it's not about motivation. Unfortunately, motivation is overrated.
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BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
That is essentially it: the study of yourself, not the acceptance of some imaginary "average person". Biology is complicated and messy. We are all different. It is a cliché and it is true. You will never know how much energy you need until you try to find it out. You find that out by diligent tracking. Science requires time, discipline and love of reality, the very reasons quacks hate it. You are trying to become a scientist specialised in yourself. Study yourself. You are worth every effort you put in that study.Even if logging your days when you don't end up doing what you "should" do doesn't make you more motivated in coming days, just making logging a habit and observing what you eat, what you log, and how your body responds will give you greater knowledge. That will let you make logical decisions and set appropriate goals as you progress.
Definitely don't beat yourself up. That's counter productive. Do let yourself be honest with yourself. That's all it is. It's about building and reinforcing habits; it's not about motivation. Unfortunately, motivation is overrated.
This is actually very well stated, Bart.1 -
Thank you springlering62. I think we should try to formulate and reformulate things until they are clear enough for most people (everone?) to understand. It is not easy. After all, we all have different backgrounds that have taught us to reason differently and to view things from different perspectives while we are largely unaware or even incapable of guessing how other people think and why. In all, just because reality doesn't change, doesn't mean our understanding of it doesn't or can't change. The same is true for our descriptions of it.springlering62 wrote: »BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
That is essentially it: the study of yourself, not the acceptance of some imaginary "average person". Biology is complicated and messy. We are all different. It is a cliché and it is true. You will never know how much energy you need until you try to find it out. You find that out by diligent tracking. Science requires time, discipline and love of reality, the very reasons quacks hate it. You are trying to become a scientist specialised in yourself. Study yourself. You are worth every effort you put in that study.Even if logging your days when you don't end up doing what you "should" do doesn't make you more motivated in coming days, just making logging a habit and observing what you eat, what you log, and how your body responds will give you greater knowledge. That will let you make logical decisions and set appropriate goals as you progress.
Definitely don't beat yourself up. That's counter productive. Do let yourself be honest with yourself. That's all it is. It's about building and reinforcing habits; it's not about motivation. Unfortunately, motivation is overrated.
This is actually very well stated, Bart.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I may have to estimate sometimes, or take my best guess on what database entry most likely is similar to something I ate away from home, but I don't intentionally not log a meal. I log something, and I'm fairly certain that it's always closer to reality than not logging anything.
Hello @lynn_glenmont , may I ask how do you estimate? Just the calories or all the macros? Do you do this for every meal or just some?0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I may have to estimate sometimes, or take my best guess on what database entry most likely is similar to something I ate away from home, but I don't intentionally not log a meal. I log something, and I'm fairly certain that it's always closer to reality than not logging anything.
Also, how many of your meals do you usually estimate?0 -
I feel bad that I ate too much, or get lazy and don't feel like tracking everything. However reading all of your comments are helpful and educational. Thanks for the info.
I also feel bad and do not write down sometimes
Do you normally write estimations on such cases? I try to write lower estimations later on 
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cinalicikler wrote: »I feel bad that I ate too much, or get lazy and don't feel like tracking everything. However reading all of your comments are helpful and educational. Thanks for the info.
I also feel bad and do not write down sometimes Do you normally write estimations on such cases? I try to write lower estimations later on
Why? You’re only fooling yourself. It seems rather pointless to fudge the numbers and still hope for results.
My diary is open. You can go back to November and December and see some staggering numbers reached while we were traveling. But I recorded them all. I duz not care who might look at them and have comments. I own them, and they provided necessary data points when I got back home and back into better habits.
If you’re going to do it, do it right. I did everything in my life half assed for many years. I got by. Now, I “get”. Lower weight, happiness, confidence, adventurousness. I gets it all.2 -
Good days, bad days, hard days, easy days… I log it.
Make no mistake, I am here for weight loss but I’m also here for data. I got put in this malfunctioning human body (autoimmune issues) and I’m trying to take the best care of it I can because I’m not done
here yet.
So… I’m a data girl. I try to keep the most accurate logs I can and analyze everything to the best of my ability. I’m also a gluten free vegetarian so I monitor my vitamin goal and macros.
I’m obsessive, borderline orthorexic, so I need that data to reel my idiot brain in and prevent me from hurting myself.3 -
cinalicikler wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »I may have to estimate sometimes, or take my best guess on what database entry most likely is similar to something I ate away from home, but I don't intentionally not log a meal. I log something, and I'm fairly certain that it's always closer to reality than not logging anything.
Hello @lynn_glenmont , may I ask how do you estimate? Just the calories or all the macros? Do you do this for every meal or just some?
I'm not Lynn, but I'd speculate that it might help you to have multiple answers, so I'll horn in. Speaking for myself, I estimate in various ways, depending on what seems easiest/best in a situation where I can't be precise:
* If I eat a meal at a local restaurant that doesn't have calorie information on the menu/web, I log a similar meal from a chain restaurant, based on past experience with the restaurants.
* If I ate something at a friend's house, I'd use entries from the MFP database for whole servings of that type of thing, and my best guess of amount. For example, something like lasagna, I'd find entries for lasagna in the MFP and pick one toward the mid- to high-side for calories (high side if my friend made lasagna that seemed to have lots of cheese or olive oil or something). If there's an item in the database that has a definite size (3" x 5" piece or something), that can be helpful in picking.
* Sometimes I guess at the amounts of components of a food. For example, a veggie omelet might be 3 eggs, an ounce of cheese, half a cup of each of various veggies, which I'd log separately, then add a bunch of butter or oil (at least 2 tablespoons, if not more) because restaurant food usually has a lot of fats of one type or another.
Any of the above will log both macros and calories, both approximate, assuming you choose database entries that have macros entered in them.
* On the rare occasion when I don't have enough info to do the above - such as a potluck where I sampled many, many dishes - I'd take a wild guess at total calories and log it as a quick add, calories only. The longer you log your actual weighed out food at home, the better you'll get at guessing calories (or serving sizes). This is the type of case where, in year 7 of maintenance, I don't bother to log it. I did it during weight loss and the first few months of maintenance in order to have better personal calorie-needs data.
How often? I probably log a single item by estimating a few times a week (such as a latte from a local logged as a chain latte). Whole meals, it depends on how often I go out (and where), so anywhere from once a week to every meal every day when traveling.0 -
By logging everything, you have the data you need to adjust accordingly. If you aren't sure, make a best guess but log SOMETHING.
A typical week for me shows days I go over and days I'm under. The weekly average is all I care about.
There's no rule that says you have to stick with your calorie goal every single day. You can still achieve your goals if you adjust accordingly and average things out for the week.
If you DON'T log, how can you know what you need to do to fix it?2 -
cinalicikler wrote: »I feel bad that I ate too much, or get lazy and don't feel like tracking everything. However reading all of your comments are helpful and educational. Thanks for the info.
I also feel bad and do not write down sometimes Do you normally write estimations on such cases? I try to write lower estimations later on
Why? It's just food, not a sin that you need to atone for. It's also in the past, and doesn't change just because you don't write it down, or if you pretend something different happened than what really did.
If you log everything to the best of your ability, even estimating when needed, you are giving yourself the information to think about why you made certain choices in certain situations. That can help you improve your plans going forward to avoid doing things you don't want to repeat.
Yes, this can feel very uncomfortable at first.
But if you keep logging, and keep thinking, and keep adjusting your plans to work better for you, you will begin to see progress. That will feel empowering, like you are in charge of the situation and can make change in your life. That will feel really good, when you get there, I promise. It will help encourage you to keep going, to take the reins and drive your life where you really want it to go.
I think pretty much all of us eat more than we'd planned or intended sometimes. If that feels not worth it when looking back, it's time for some analysis and problem solving. Guilt or shame or other bad feelings aren't necessary, don't burn any extra calories, feel icky, and probably won't help us to make progress to a better situation.
On another thread of yours, I mentioned something that my fellow IT systems analysts know about: We jokingly call it "analysis paralysis", that desire to understand everything and work out all the details in theory before we ever start actually doing something. It's a natural impulse. It's also time-consuming, and it can be anxiety-producing. Sometimes - often - it's more productive to learn a general route to try, then actually start doing it, problem-solving and refining your plans as you go along.
I think that applies to weight management: Don't be afraid or anxious. Start logging your eating honestly, reviewing it, learning from it, and making gradual changes in your eating patterns as you go forward.
Making some mistakes isn't a failure. Slipping up on your plan isn't a failure. We all have that happen. None of that makes you a bad person. If something doesn't work for you, learn from that, adjust, keep going. You can gradually improve. As long as you keep going, keeping chipping away at it, you'll make progress. As long as you keep going patiently and persistently, you won't fail.
Best wishes!2 -
By logging everything, you have the data you need to adjust accordingly. If you aren't sure, make a best guess but log SOMETHING.
A typical week for me shows days I go over and days I'm under. The weekly average is all I care about.
There's no rule that says you have to stick with your calorie goal every single day. You can still achieve your goals if you adjust accordingly and average things out for the week.
If you DON'T log, how can you know what you need to do to fix it?
This is such a great point!
Also, if I do log, sometimes it helps me not catastrophize about it: Not blow it out of proportion in my head.
Let's say I'm losing weight very slowly, half a pound a week. Let's say I splurge one day and eat a whiole 1000 calories above my goal. Oh no: The horrors! No, not really. Let's say I don't even do anything to make up for it by averaging out the calories to my goal level for the week. Let's say I just go back to my normal calorie goal the next day. All that means is that it will take me 3 extra days** to reach my ultimate goal weight. If I've been losing a pound a week, it's more like a day and a half.
How big a catastrophe is that? In my world, it's not, as long as it's a reasonably rare thing. Plus having the calorie data helps me understand how to keep it more and more rare.
** Explanation: If I'm losing half a pound a week, my presumed calorie deficit is 250 per day. If losing a pound a week, it's 500. When I eat the extra 1000 calories while losing half a pound a week, I've wiped out my 250 calorie deficit that day, and for the next 3 days. That's the maximum impact. For reasons I've mentioned elsewhere, there's a decent chance the impact is less than that.
There have been times I ate literally 2 to 3 times the number of calories in one day that it would take for me to keep my weight steady, in maintenance. We're talking around 5000-6000 calories when my maintenance calories are more like 2000 daily. I've still stayed at a healthy weight despite that.
It's the things we do most days that determines most of our results, not the rare things. One day or one meal is a drop in the ocean. Learn from it, go on. It'll be fine.0 -
cinalicikler wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »I may have to estimate sometimes, or take my best guess on what database entry most likely is similar to something I ate away from home, but I don't intentionally not log a meal. I log something, and I'm fairly certain that it's always closer to reality than not logging anything.
Hello @lynn_glenmont , may I ask how do you estimate? Just the calories or all the macros? Do you do this for every meal or just some?
Definitely just some. I cook most of my meals myself, at home, so I have the package information for foods with multiple components or use USDA information for commodity foods (produce, dairy, meat, fish -- essentially any whole food). When I say I estimate, I mean if I'm eating somewhere outside my home that doesn't offer nutritional information, I have to make a guess about the mass/weight of the food I'm served (which is much easier when most of the time you weigh what you're eating at home) and sometimes I have to guess on which database entry for pizza or lasagna or whatever is most like what I ate. Sometimes I can mentally deconstruct the meal and just log it as its constituent parts (X grams of salmon, X grams of green beans, X grams of almond, X grams of oil, etc.).
I don't estimate the calories (except sometimes as a reverse engineering to find the best database entry). I don't estimate the macros (except sometimes as a test to see if the database entry I'm using looks legitimate). I select a database entry that I'm guessing is similar to what I ate. I select a serving size based on my experience in logging and knowledge of food. The database entries contain the calories and macros.1 -
cinalicikler wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »I may have to estimate sometimes, or take my best guess on what database entry most likely is similar to something I ate away from home, but I don't intentionally not log a meal. I log something, and I'm fairly certain that it's always closer to reality than not logging anything.
Also, how many of your meals do you usually estimate?
Maybe one or two a week. Sometimes zero, if I don't go anywhere except chain restaurants or close relatives who basically use the same recipes we grew up on.0 -
I saw this and I thought I'd throw my pennyworth in because I don't log salad. I don't like salad dressing so it's literally some type of lettuce, cucumber, celery, carrots, maybe mushrooms or red pepper, thrown in a bowl. So it's going to be 100cals tops.
Why? Because my goal was to add salad *somewhere* into my day every day. And I'm at the start of my WL journey so I know that I'm not in a position to need to trim the fat on calories to stay in a deficit.
It's about your goals and your intents. If your goal is to not shame yourself because you ate this food, don't. Food is food. But you can't get a lay of the land if you don't know what it looks like. You need to decide what's important to you, knowing the truth and making it work or lying so you feel better in the short term and maybe scupper your goals in the long term.
I hope this didn't come off harsh that's not my intent. I just mean to say you come off conflicted and making a decision to commit to being truthful is up to you and there is nothing to be ashamed of. It only feels like shame because you let it. 🤍0 -
@inahazydaze
I like to eat green salads too. I actually do put ingredients on the scale, but it's hardly a real issue most of the time. Yesterday it was about a half pound (222 grams) of mixed salad greens that totaled a whopping 52 calories. Pretty insignificant. The avocado added more than double that, and the less-than-a-serving of dressing added some too. It's easy for me to toss things into the bowl on my scale, but it would also serve me almost as good, other than the avocado and dressing, to just make and save a "meal" that was about a 100 calorie salad so I could still add it to my diary as a place holder. But that's me. I like to log it all or at least a good estimate. I sometimes add nuts or nutritional yest to my salads, and that also adds some. I digress; do what works for you!
I agree with the other part, and it doesn't sound harsh. I think you're echoing what others are sharing; if you have a calorie-dense food or meal and don't log it, you're only cheating yourself out of having good data to make better decisions in the future.
Log on!
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@inahazydaze
I like to eat green salads too. I actually do put ingredients on the scale, but it's hardly a real issue most of the time. Yesterday it was about a half pound (222 grams) of mixed salad greens that totaled a whopping 52 calories. Pretty insignificant. The avocado added more than double that, and the less-than-a-serving of dressing added some too. It's easy for me to toss things into the bowl on my scale, but it would also serve me almost as good, other than the avocado and dressing, to just make and save a "meal" that was about a 100 calorie salad so I could still add it to my diary as a place holder. But that's me. I like to log it all or at least a good estimate. I sometimes add nuts or nutritional yest to my salads, and that also adds some. I digress; do what works for you!
I agree with the other part, and it doesn't sound harsh. I think you're echoing what others are sharing; if you have a calorie-dense food or meal and don't log it, you're only cheating yourself out of having good data to make better decisions in the future.
Log on!
As a random additional comment: 52 calories is more important (in theory) to someone eating 1200 and shooting for half a pound weekly weight loss (250 calories a day) than it is to someone eating 2500+ and either maintaining or going for a fast loss rate. The relative magnitude of the numbers is worth considering, IMO. It's still fine for people to decide not to log low calorie items, but IMO considered decisions made in context are better than kneejerk ones made without considering.
It's probably my systems-analyst background talking.
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@inahazydaze
I like to eat green salads too. I actually do put ingredients on the scale, but it's hardly a real issue most of the time. Yesterday it was about a half pound (222 grams) of mixed salad greens that totaled a whopping 52 calories. Pretty insignificant. The avocado added more than double that, and the less-than-a-serving of dressing added some too. It's easy for me to toss things into the bowl on my scale, but it would also serve me almost as good, other than the avocado and dressing, to just make and save a "meal" that was about a 100 calorie salad so I could still add it to my diary as a place holder. But that's me. I like to log it all or at least a good estimate. I sometimes add nuts or nutritional yest to my salads, and that also adds some. I digress; do what works for you!
I agree with the other part, and it doesn't sound harsh. I think you're echoing what others are sharing; if you have a calorie-dense food or meal and don't log it, you're only cheating yourself out of having good data to make better decisions in the future.
Log on!
As a random additional comment: 52 calories is more important (in theory) to someone eating 1200 and shooting for half a pound weekly weight loss (250 calories a day) than it is to someone eating 2500+ and either maintaining or going for a fast loss rate. The relative magnitude of the numbers is worth considering, IMO. It's still fine for people to decide not to log low calorie items, but IMO considered decisions made in context are better than kneejerk ones made without considering.
It's probably my systems-analyst background talking.
No; it's something I neglected to focus on. An extra 50 calories on a 1200 calorie weight-loss goal is a 5% increase. That can be significant over time. An extra 50 calories on a 2000 maintenance calorie goal is less than 3%. It still could be an issue if it was every day and a person otherwise was spot-on their goal otherwise. It would make a very slow gain; a pound in over two months. I remember my grandfather used to say he "only gained a pound this year." Well, he did that many years in a row.
Context is important. That same person with a 2000 calorie maintenance goal who is over and under every day would more likely see things balance out. That person would still be wise to check-in from time to time to assure that actual results reflected the prediction and then made any needed adjustments.
Thanks for the additional observations/wisdom.
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I'm not saying this is universally true, but another reason I log everything (even low and most zero-calorie items): It makes weighing, noting, logging almost a reflex habit. I'm less likely to forget to log something important if I log everything automatically. In addition, as a long-term calorie counter, counting takes less mindshare for me if I do it that way: I don't think "is this important enough to log", I just log it without much thought.
'
A nice side effect is that when I think "Hmm, that dinner the other night was tasty and filling", I can go back to that day and see exactly what I had, usually including any spices/flavorings other than maybe adjustments of salt and pepper I added while eating. (I don't need to track sodium, so I don't worry about that. If I were hypertensive or something, I'd probably estimate and log the small amount of salt, too.)
Again, I'm not saying that everyone's brain is wired like mine, so they ought to do what I do. I don't know. I'm just throwing out there how it works for me, in case that resonates with some minority of others.1 -
I personally log everything, including the salads. In my mind you can’t tell someone to ignore the salad at 100-150 calories but remember to log the fats you cook with (120 kcal) or the soda or wine you drink (similar per serving) or not to ignore the holiday candy they grab off of their co workers desk etc. Calories are calories and they add up whether or not you perceive them to be from healthy or essential nutrients or not. It is also valuable to look back at a log and evaluate if you are exceeding where you want to be calorie wise and not feeling full at various points in the day whether you are eating the right blend of foods. Maybe you should combine the 150 calorie salad with a slice of cheese or some tuna and skip the soda and the candy. Or realize that if you use tuna rather than cook a chicken breast you won’t need oil. If the salad is not in the log at all you might think you skipped a meal entirely rather than eating something that was not fully satisfying.1
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for me it wasnt a matter of them being nutritious or not but just about the miniscule things, calorie wise, not being worth the effort to log - so I wouldnt bother logging a slice of tomato or a lettuce leaf in a sandwich, for example
Reality is they really would not add up to anything significant at all.0 -
paperpudding wrote: »for me it wasnt a matter of them being nutritious or not but just about the miniscule things, calorie wise, not being worth the effort to log - so I wouldnt bother logging a slice of tomato or a lettuce leaf in a sandwich, for example
Reality is they really would not add up to anything significant at all.
That was the initial point I took. But I believe my cheat meals just add up too quickly 0 -
cinalicikler wrote: »I believe my cheat meals just add up too quickly
Hahaha. That’s me in a nutshell. That’s why I log!1 -
springlering62 wrote: »cinalicikler wrote: »I believe my cheat meals just add up too quickly
Hahaha. That’s me in a nutshell. That’s why I log!
Change cheats meals to mindless eating and logging to not logging and 5 lbs later....
This is why everything should be logged!
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nah, nobody's weight loss fails because they cheat too much on lettuce or tomato.
Be sensible about what you are choosing not to log (obviously a lettuce leaf or 1/4 tomato is different to a donut or a whole meal, calorie wise) but don't feel you have to log every miniscule thing if you dont want to.
I certainly didnt find not logging miniscule items like that led to a slippery slope of not logging larger items.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »nah, nobody's weight loss fails because they cheat too much on lettuce or tomato.
Be sensible about what you are choosing not to log (obviously a lettuce leaf or 1/4 tomato is different to a donut or a whole meal, calorie wise) but don't feel you have to log every miniscule thing if you dont want to.
I certainly didnt find not logging miniscule items like that led to a slippery slope of not logging larger items.
I am little bit in a confusion regarding to this matter. I also agree minuscule minor foods such as some vegetables may not be written, who has the time to note everything?
But if I dont write them, I stop logging all together after a while. Do you also have the same issue? How did you resolve it? 0 -
cinalicikler wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »nah, nobody's weight loss fails because they cheat too much on lettuce or tomato.
Be sensible about what you are choosing not to log (obviously a lettuce leaf or 1/4 tomato is different to a donut or a whole meal, calorie wise) but don't feel you have to log every miniscule thing if you dont want to.
I certainly didnt find not logging miniscule items like that led to a slippery slope of not logging larger items.
I am little bit in a confusion regarding to this matter. I also agree minuscule minor foods such as some vegetables may not be written, who has the time to note everything? But if I dont write them, I stop logging all together after a while. Do you also have the same issue? How did you resolve it?
I tried that in the beginning. Yeah, that doesn't work for me.
Whatever little perfectionist/need to know/complete the task thing it is in me, I have to log all my food every day. I have a stack of small pieces of paper right next to my food scale. I write everything down and log it later. Some people have to log it before they eat it. I know by sight how many calories are in nearly everything I eat - but I still log it. If I'm out for the whole day I can take a picture of whatever I eat and log it later.
With things like a tossed salad, I do have a "Meal" made with all my favorite salad ingredients and I just use that. I weighed it all the first time and now just weigh the finished salad and log it in the Meals.
I think you have to find what works for you. If I don't log I've lost my data, and data is King.
It's been 15 years since I lost all my weight. I've tried not-logging or not logging big binge days or just logging *some* foods and guessing on others. When I do that I tend to snack more, eat larger portions, have more sweets and in no time I've regained five pounds. It takes me no more than 2 minutes to log a meal. If I'm eating most my meals at home or made at home, it's not even guessing, I KNOW. Worth it to maintain my weight.
You're putting a whole lot more time than that into posting about it and worrying and being indecisive. It's just a necessary life task, like brushing my teeth. I don't like doing that either, but it is just something I do as part of maintaining my health.
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The only time I don't record is homemade meals with lots of ingredients and I can't caculate how many beans were in my bowl of chili ...lol 🤣 I always try to log all foods esp if it goes against my health/fitness goals.0
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cinalicikler wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »nah, nobody's weight loss fails because they cheat too much on lettuce or tomato.
Be sensible about what you are choosing not to log (obviously a lettuce leaf or 1/4 tomato is different to a donut or a whole meal, calorie wise) but don't feel you have to log every miniscule thing if you dont want to.
I certainly didnt find not logging miniscule items like that led to a slippery slope of not logging larger items.
I am little bit in a confusion regarding to this matter. I also agree minuscule minor foods such as some vegetables may not be written, who has the time to note everything? But if I dont write them, I stop logging all together after a while. Do you also have the same issue? How did you resolve it?
No, I didn't have that issue- my years of logging loosely and omitting lettuce leafs and tomato slices etc did not lead to me stopping logging altogether.
However, do what works for you - if you want to log absolutely everything and that keeps you on track, do so.
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Homemade meals are by far the easiest to log.
Simply enter the ingredients as a recipe or meal (I prefer the meals tab because it’s more flexible to adjust and copy to tinker with ingredients plus transfers individual ingredients to the daily log.)
Then record .5 or .25 or whatever if the entire dish to your daily log. Easy peasy.
Even if you’re a few percent off, it balances out when you eat the rest of the dish a day or two later.
When freezing leftovers, I’ll mark the bag “.33 of entire recipe” so I can easily record the next batch.
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