Is marriage/monogamy dead?
Replies
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Well it could also be that there's expectation and people SETTLE because it seems like the right thing to do at that time. That was me. Families liked both of us, we were in later years (I was 35) and we seemed like a good match. But if I was being honest with myself back then, I was still unsure. Now almost 25 years later I divorced.Darthloops12 wrote: »My opinion on why it’s high is because people who have no business getting married get married. What I mean is people who don’t respect what it means and aren’t ready or mature enough to be married. Sad to say but this site alone proves it day in and day out. I do think marriages work when two people enter it for the right reason and are willing to put in the work and be faithful.
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Bravo.All I know is that my marriage is dead. Marriage is a wonderful institution....and if I ever think about doing it again, I should be institutionalized....
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I got married (and divorced) quite young because in the 80s that was the natural evolution of a long-term relationship. Relationships that had endured for a period of time had to "go somewhere", they couldn't just BE what they were. We had already been living together for about two years so marriage was the inevitable next step in the progression.
I have no need or want to marry again. I'm not even sure I'd live with a partner again.2 -
Well it could also be that there's expectation and people SETTLE because it seems like the right thing to do at that time. That was me. Families liked both of us, we were in later years (I was 35) and we seemed like a good match. But if I was being honest with myself back then, I was still unsure. Now almost 25 years later I divorced.Darthloops12 wrote: »My opinion on why it’s high is because people who have no business getting married get married. What I mean is people who don’t respect what it means and aren’t ready or mature enough to be married. Sad to say but this site alone proves it day in and day out. I do think marriages work when two people enter it for the right reason and are willing to put in the work and be faithful.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hear what you’re saying and understand the pressure or expectation but I think you’re agreeing that you had no business getting married.2 -
I've been with my husband for over a decade since I was in college, married for 7 years, more in love with him every day and feel he is my soulmate. We've been through a lot of rough patches over the years especially when we were both less mature but our relationship has only gotten better over time.
I don't think that just because a marriage ends in divorce, necessarily means that it never should have happened in the first place or that it had no value. People change and sometimes grow apart but that doesn't take away from the time that they did share together. For some reason it's fine to have different groups of friends over the years but it's still considered bad to divorce. If my husband and I ever divorced I wouldn't regret all the great times we had together and all the love and jokes and ideas we shared over the years.
Plus, the younger generations are divorcing at lower rates than couples in previous decades, probably because they are more selective about who they marry in the first place. And because they are having fewer kids and many aren't having kids at all. I've seen so many couples get divorced right after having kids because they grew apart once their life changed that much. It seems like that puts a huge strain on most marriages, or maybe that's just my childhood trauma of my mom screaming that we ruined her life and never should have been born talking....
Also being monogamous is still very much the norm and poly people are still stigmatized in a lot of society. For example have you ever seen a poly relationship on a scripted TV show? If you ask most people they will say they want a monogamous relationship. Honestly my husband and I have discussed it before and we both think society has too many hangups about monogamy, like this idea that your relationship is worth less if you're poly. Again using the friendship analogy, if you have a lot of friends does that mean your relationship with your best friend is less close? So why is it different for relationships? We've both agreed that we'd be fine with being poly but neither of us have a desire to do it right now (TBH it seems really time and energy consuming and honestly who has patience for that level of scheduling and effort and managing interpersonal relations? We both have other stuff to do with our lives right now LOL.)
I have a lot of friends who choose to be single but I have always been really depressed and feeling like my life was going nowhere when I was single. For some reason that's considered to be bad these days, to admit that you do better while in a relationship vs. being single. But everyone is different and I think it's fine for some people to always want to be in relationships. I don't believe in that whole thing about "you need to love yourself before someone can love you" or "you need to work on yourself and become mentally healthy before you can be in a relationship" because a) it's ableist, b) statistically people can't learn to love themselves unless they have experienced love, whether romantic or otherwise, and c) I've improved myself as a person so much since my husband and I got together, and our relationship was one motivator for me to do that.4 -
Dead no. But I'm of the point of view that there really is no soulmate for everyone. With 8 billion people in the world, unless you met everyone of them, how can one say they found their true soulmate if on average most people have only had about 7 serious relationships in their lifetime and just picked the best one. And people remarry after one passes away all the time. Companionship is vital for most humans so I can see why monogamy might not be a way to go for some especially if they start becoming estranged to their current spouse or partner.
The thing is you aren't choosing from 8 billion people. People tend to relate to people who have a lot of similarities to them. So they tend to relate to people who grew up in the same or similar area, who are from the same socioeconomic class, had a similar education, similar interests, etc etc. That means the actual group of people you will click with is much smaller.
Plus, a lot of people are so similar to each other in personality and interests as to be essentially interchangeable. I know, I know, everyone loves to think they are special and unique, but we all know that's not true. As Bert Cooper said on Mad Men, by the time you're 40 you've met every type of person that exists. So at a certain point you're just meeting archetypes of people you've already met before. I think you can also have multiple soulmates for different phases of your life just like you have multiple best friends for different phases of your life. And, since so many people are essentially interchangeable, most people just end up dating the same type of person over and over again so their "soulmate" is more of an archetype than one specific person. Also if your path never crosses with someone by definition they can't be your soulmate -- you can't have a strong bond or connection with them because you've never met.TwitchyMagee wrote: »Eta: I think also we need to remember the people who are childless and child free by choice. Those people seem to do very well in old age. I have numerous examples in my own life, including my children’s aunts & uncles.
PPS It just occurred to me also that we may be conflating having children with monogamous relationships and certainly the two are not the same and you can have either without the other.
I think the "who will care for me in my old age" argument is the most shortsighted argument for having kids. As you said most childfree people do fine in old age. And by the time I get old so many people will be childfree that there will probably be even more communities geared towards that. (Hopefully by the time I get old there will be lifespan and healthspan extension technology anyway.) Plus, why do parents want their kids to have the added stressor of managing the parent's life on top of their own? Unfortunately my husband has this problem, he spends so much time managing his mom's stuff, she's mentally capable and has more than enough money to outsource a lot of this stuff but she guilts him into doing it anyway. The commitment he has had to put into this has affected his career and put a strain on our relationship. It would be even worse if we had kids since then we'd have an obligation to two generations. Seriously parents, figure something else out rather than using your kids as a retirement plan or as long-term care insurance.
And then there's the parents who end up estranged from their kids anyway, which is a growing number. Or whose kids grow up to have physical or mental disabilities and have to be cared for by the parent into adulthood.1 -
I saw a post recently that said something like "Shaming someone for cheating is poly-phobic." I don't know if it was satire or not, but I thought it was hilarious either way.2
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I can't speak much. The 50% seems about accurate. My ex husband and I just divorced recently and it was cause he didnt want to grow. He's still on about issues of the past that we used to have despite us not fighting or arguing for over 1 year and a half. So clearly I learned from it and havn't really bought up the same *kitten* again. But it was sad to see him go. I was really hoping to be like one of those people who stay with their spouse for a very long time but I only made it till about 8+ years.
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Probably not. Of course I'd never change the fact that I got the most wonderful daughter out of it, but marriage didn't equate to the expectation I thought it would like I did growing up.Darthloops12 wrote: »
Well it could also be that there's expectation and people SETTLE because it seems like the right thing to do at that time. That was me. Families liked both of us, we were in later years (I was 35) and we seemed like a good match. But if I was being honest with myself back then, I was still unsure. Now almost 25 years later I divorced.Darthloops12 wrote: »My opinion on why it’s high is because people who have no business getting married get married. What I mean is people who don’t respect what it means and aren’t ready or mature enough to be married. Sad to say but this site alone proves it day in and day out. I do think marriages work when two people enter it for the right reason and are willing to put in the work and be faithful.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hear what you’re saying and understand the pressure or expectation but I think you’re agreeing that you had no business getting married.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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snowflake954's quote...
"In Italy they say "Meglio solo invece di mal accompaniato". Translated: "Better to be alone than in bad company". Understood and appreciated.
What I have seen here (Italy) is that single is fine--until you get old and sick, especially without children. My husband saw so many people that are alone coming to him (his job includes estate planning) and had no one to care for them or leave their property to."
It's very idealistic to think of marriage/monogamy in black and white terms. Today, we have every variation on a theme. When young adults have children, they might get married. They may stay married for the sake of the children or not. Taking full responsibility for your children is noble. Honorable. It means that you are a human of integrity.
Some people cannot take care of their children, so they put them up for adoption. They're still doing the best thing for them at the time. Judging people for getting married is like judging people for eating everything under the sun. One size will never fit all. We're human and we will always make decisions based on our emotions. People change. Marriage dynamics change.
People get bored, but they choose to stay. Children, finances, greater family obligations, you name it...there are all kinds of reasons to stay in a marriage. What you do in your 20's or 30's may not last until you're in your 50's or 60's. There are no guarantees in life or marriage. No guarantees that your children will even like you or want to be around you, when you are older. They may not want to take care of you or ever see you again.
Every variable and option is on the table. This life will never be black and white. It's full of colors and a million grey areas.
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Darthloops12 wrote: »My opinion on why it’s high is because people who have no business getting married get married. What I mean is people who don’t respect what it means and aren’t ready or mature enough to be married. Sad to say but this site alone proves it day in and day out. I do think marriages work when two people enter it for the right reason and are willing to put in the work and be faithful.
I’m sure y’all’s DMs are super disturbing and sad. I can’t even imagine.0 -
It will be 35 years in the fall for us - high school when we met. Ive see whats out there for me and i'm better off bitter and unhappy raising my kids and my child of a husband.2
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Some people like monogamy, some don’t. Marriage is primarily a legal and economic relationship. Divorce rates have been around 50% for a long time. I think it’s good that many people are more honest these days about what they want. Maybe the divorce rate will go down if people don’t feel forced into living a lie and choose less traditional, more open marriages based on trust, respect, and love (not ownership).
Personally I prefer monogamy. So does my partner. Works for us, anyway.2 -
I think people need to stop being scared of communication. If you want to be with other people but stay in your relationship then talk about it before marrying or having kids. If they don’t want it then they aren’t right for you. I think monogamy works for some but not all but people are too afraid to say they don’t want to be monogamous. Idk who made it taboo to have poly relationships but it’s *kitten*. Also people need to get over it if someone cheats it’s not life ending. The biggest betrayal is the lie not the lay and the lie comes from not communicating
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beagletracks wrote: »
That link is from the government.
Can it be trusted to be factual ?
Ya know.... ‘track records‘ and such. 😎
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beagletracks wrote: »
Is anyone not going to talk about the "15 year old" getting married here in these stats?1 -
e
good point. It should read “Per 1000 women and girls…”shortassmax1 wrote: »beagletracks wrote: »
Is anyone not going to talk about the "15 year old" getting married here in these stats?
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I'm honestly more curious how many of those married people are still genuinely happy. Women and men stay in unhappy marriages for several reasons0
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Peachesnstuff wrote: »I'm honestly more curious how many of those married people are still genuinely happy. Women and men stay in unhappy marriages for several reasons
Because they said for better or worse - so they assume they are in the worse part maybe and the better might come back 🤷♂️1 -
Peachesnstuff wrote: »I'm honestly more curious how many of those married people are still genuinely happy. Women and men stay in unhappy marriages for several reasons
Probably 16% of the 50% that stay married. That’s my scientific conclusion1 -
shortassmax1 wrote: »beagletracks wrote: »
Is anyone not going to talk about the "15 year old" getting married here in these stats?
Child marriage is legal in most of the US.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/01/09/cassie-levesque-new-hampshire-child-marriage-524159
https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/fight-continues-end-child-marriage-us/38893
https://www.unchainedatlast.org/laws-to-end-child-marriage/
https://www.equalitynow.org/learn_more_child_marriage_us/
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Motorsheen wrote: »beagletracks wrote: »
That link is from the government.
Can it be trusted to be factual ?
Ya know.... ‘track records‘ and such. 😎
Independently verified by social media influencer and/or conspiracy theorist. 👽
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Peachesnstuff wrote: »I'm honestly more curious how many of those married people are still genuinely happy. Women and men stay in unhappy marriages for several reasons
Good question. It makes me realize the unrealistic standards we (or at least I) sometimes have for happiness in relationships when the reality is we’re (or at least I’m) not happy all the time when NOT in a partnership — so why expect coupledom always to be fulfilling?
I wonder if married people are happier or less happy in general than unmarried people.1 -
beagletracks wrote: »Peachesnstuff wrote: »I'm honestly more curious how many of those married people are still genuinely happy. Women and men stay in unhappy marriages for several reasons
Good question. It makes me realize the unrealistic standards we (or at least I) sometimes have for happiness in relationships when the reality is we’re (or at least I’m) not happy all the time when NOT in a partnership — so why expect coupledom always to be fulfilling?
I wonder if married people are happier or less happy in general than unmarried people.
Men are more happy, women are less happy. The happiest demographic is unmarried women without children. An influencer told me that.1 -
TwitchyMagee wrote: »beagletracks wrote: »Peachesnstuff wrote: »I'm honestly more curious how many of those married people are still genuinely happy. Women and men stay in unhappy marriages for several reasons
Good question. It makes me realize the unrealistic standards we (or at least I) sometimes have for happiness in relationships when the reality is we’re (or at least I’m) not happy all the time when NOT in a partnership — so why expect coupledom always to be fulfilling?
I wonder if married people are happier or less happy in general than unmarried people.
Men are more happy, women are less happy. The happiest demographic is unmarried women without children. An influencer told me that.
I was wondering why I was inexplicably happy. Thanks. 👰♀️
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I still plan on getting a hubby to wait on me hand a foot someday
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beagletracks wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »beagletracks wrote: »
That link is from the government.
Can it be trusted to be factual ?
Ya know.... ‘track records‘ and such. 😎
Independently verified by social media influencer and/or conspiracy theorist. 👽
If y’all have an additional conspiracy theory, or two.... please let me know.
I’m all out.
All of my past ones have come true.
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Motorsheen wrote: »beagletracks wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »beagletracks wrote: »
That link is from the government.
Can it be trusted to be factual ?
Ya know.... ‘track records‘ and such. 😎
Independently verified by social media influencer and/or conspiracy theorist. 👽
If y’all have an additional conspiracy theory, or two.... please let me know.
I’m all out.
All of my past ones have come true.
Here’s one: Abor***n bans are intended to keep women (esp. WOC) and their children in extreme poverty so there will be people with no other choice but to fill low-wage jobs and/or enlist in the military (or end up in prison). Rich get richer. Poor get poorer. Child labor laws rolled back. Basic human rights stripped away.
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beagletracks wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »beagletracks wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »beagletracks wrote: »
That link is from the government.
Can it be trusted to be factual ?
Ya know.... ‘track records‘ and such. 😎
Independently verified by social media influencer and/or conspiracy theorist. 👽
If y’all have an additional conspiracy theory, or two.... please let me know.
I’m all out.
All of my past ones have come true.
Here’s one: Abor***n bans are intended to keep women (esp. WOC) and their children in extreme poverty so there will be people with no other choice but to fill low-wage jobs and/or enlist in the military (or end up in prison). Rich get richer. Poor get poorer. Child labor laws rolled back. Basic human rights stripped away.
We call those essential workers.
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